Easily making walter 10x better

[Cheggf]

2 hours ago, GreenBowers said:

And I dunno, some people find it boring, but I actually like ranged combat. Playing him like a ranger is my preferred playstyle and I just enjoy it just as much as melee in my own opinion. Thats why I want them to make it more valid as a playstyle, cause like, its not like people could just not spec into it if its made a skill tree, just means I can play how I wanna play and other people can ignore it for other perks.

If it's an invalid playstyle why are you doing it? Just because it isn't blatantly overpowered doesn't mean it's invalid. You're doing it so it's clearly working.

[Copyafriend]

3 hours ago, Gashzer said:

Right right right. I have to keep addressing this. People keep saying "oh you can just tame a beefalo to replace woby" acting like taming a beefalo isnt the most time consuming mechanic you can do. 

I will say, I desperately hope that walters skilltree involves enough buffs to woby to make him as good as a beefalo, he is basically a downgrade comparatively. monster meat to "feed and mount" compared to grass/twigs for an ornery, no way to fight in melee (i'd love if you could use your melee weapon while riding woby) and fairly slow compared to a rider beef with a gossamer saddle (Not that he needs to be quite that fast) it's just kind of sad to me that the character with a MOUNT is kind of encouraged to replace it.

[Mysterious box]

5 hours ago, Gashzer said:

Im a broken record on the slingshot but all i will say this time round is... while the slingshot is "bad" its still by far the best ranged combat in the game even if melee is better but melee should always always always be better than ranged combat for obvious balance reasons. Unless Klei thinks of a creative way to make the slingshot stronger while making it remain fair compared to melee.

I'd argue Wolfgang's dumbell is the current best ranged combat weapon at the moment in terms of damage and utility but even if it wasn't the case the slingshot falls so far below combat standards that being the best is speaking greater to how bad ranged combat currently is as a mechanic than how good it is. To give a example Wes is a weak character but that comparsion is only made when compared to the rest of the cast in a vacuum there's nothing wrong with Wes.

[Gashzer]

4 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

I'd argue Wolfgang's dumbell is the current best ranged combat weapon at the moment in terms of damage and utility but even if it wasn't the case the slingshot falls so far below combat standards that being the best is speaking greater to how bad ranged combat currently is as a mechanic than how good it is. To give a example Wes is a weak character but that comparsion is only made when compared to the rest of the cast in a vacuum there's nothing wrong with Wes.

Well the problem with the dumbell is how inaccurate it is even on pc (console players get a stupid fixed distance circle reticle) and the fact you only get one bullet before you need to get in melee range to pick it up. Its more of a bomb than a consistent reusable ranged weapon.

Yup ranged combat is terrible but Walter even with the "terrible" slingshot has the only viable ranged combat. Which makes him have a niche even if klei dont buff it at all. Right now klei could change nothing about slingshot in the skill tree an enough people would still play him for it as he has a monopoly on ranged combat.

5 hours ago, Copyafriend said:

I will say, I desperately hope that walters skilltree involves enough buffs to woby to make him as good as a beefalo, he is basically a downgrade comparatively. monster meat to "feed and mount" compared to grass/twigs for an ornery, no way to fight in melee (i'd love if you could use your melee weapon while riding woby) and fairly slow compared to a rider beef with a gossamer saddle (Not that he needs to be quite that fast) it's just kind of sad to me that the character with a MOUNT is kind of encouraged to replace it.

Monster meat feeds woby for longer its not a thing you need to do every time you mount and dismount. Ornery beefalo just isn't as good as the rider. Combat on a beefalo is just so much weaker than fighting on foot in general especially with the introductions of planar weapons. I feel all the youtubers and streamers that played Walter created this mindset that taming a beefalo is a good thing for Walter when it wastes a large perk of his. 

I would even argue against Lardee's video on wes. He tames a beefalo saying thats what you need to become an s-tier wes and its just wrong. Wes' strongest upside is his speed balloon during first autumn and wes with a hambat does more damage than a beefalo for the first 3 hours of your new world until it becomes an ornery. Taming a beefalo makes Wes' best upside a waste during the time its most useful. Wes is really good at using dark swords for day to day combat and is more efficient at using bat bat to heal, wes excels at using later game weapons to the point that its still better to use them over taming an ornery beefalo.

[Cheggf]

Wickerbottom is the best at ranged combat.

[Mysterious box]

 

4 hours ago, Gashzer said:

Well the problem with the dumbell is how inaccurate it is even on pc (console players get a stupid fixed distance circle reticle) and the fact you only get one bullet before you need to get in melee range to pick it up. Its more of a bomb than a consistent reusable ranged weapon.

Yup ranged combat is terrible but Walter even with the "terrible" slingshot has the only viable ranged combat. Which makes him have a niche even if klei dont buff it at all. Right now klei could change nothing about slingshot in the skill tree an enough people would still play him for it as he has a monopoly on ranged combat.

A throwable bomb is still a ranged weapon also you can always carry more dumbells for more shots it's not like Walter's slingshot is contained to one slot most of the time. As for the inaccuracy it just means you need to be more careful with your shots even Walter's slingshot misses it's shots from time to time and that's automatic aiming. (I can't comment on console though since I don't play it.) 

I do agree Walter's monopoly on the unique playstyle that is the slingshot means that he'll be played even without fixing it I've admitted in the past I'm one of those people who play and use the slingshot in spite of that but it being bad shouldn't be represented as a good thing. Winona mains are still going to play Winona even if Kiel decided to never make her feel better to play that doesn't mean she doesn't need any work done it just means people like the character or the potential for what the character they could be.

[Copyafriend]

5 hours ago, Gashzer said:

Walter when it wastes a large perk of his. 

And

 

5 hours ago, Gashzer said:

Wes' strongest upside is his speed balloon during first autumn

Are strange ways of saying “yes a beefalo is a straight upgrade but i wanna use their unique abilities >:(“

bro i SAID i want woby to move faster

woby also needs WAY more food than even a ornery. Once you feed the ornery beef, its fed until you get off, and only needs one twig/grass to remount for as long as you want.

meanwhile if woby goes unfed for even a single day, your speed goes down to 9, not to mention requiring monster meat (stack of 20 and spoils) instead of literally sticks and grass (stack 40, often carried for tools)

woby moves at 10, a regular character moves at 6,

an unsaddled beefalo moves at 7

the basic saddle improves movement speed by 40%
 

a basic untamed beef, with a basic saddle, will move 9.8.

.2 slower than woby.

a rider beefalo, with a basic saddle, is 11.2, already 10% faster than woby.

A rider beefalo with a gossamer saddle moves 12.4, being a 24% increase in speed compared to woby.

but the difference is:

a rider beefalo doesnt need to be fed at all.

a rider beefalo will NEVER buck off a player.

a rider beefalo provides 100% protection 

a rider beefalo can still do a simple melee attack (low damage tho)

 

oh wait thats right theres ornery beefalo too.

an ornery beefalo:

needs to be fed once/mounting

will never buck a player off

provides 100% damage protection

deals 51 damage, tentacle spike equivalent damage on melee.

and would still move 10.85, or 8.5% faster than woby with a gossamer saddle.

or you could use a war saddle and do 67 damage a melee attack. 

 

 

so please explain how WOBY, the dog that will ALWAYS need 1 monster meat a day to be at full speed, will buck you off, provides no protection, is slower than a rider beefalo with a normal saddle and cant melee attack at all.

explain how woby is better than a rider beefalo with even a default saddle.

heck explain how he’s better than an ornery beefalo with a normal saddle, its still at 9.8 speed and does 51 damage and has 1000 health.

Aside from potentially dying (which wont happen unless you’re fighting bosses or clearing the ruins)

where is the downside compared to woby?

where is the downside once fully tamed?

and also, no, wes’ BALOON is not even worth discussing here, even if it was a full walking cane that he spawned in with, (its not) its still slower (7.5) than an untamed beefalo with a regular saddle on it.

andalso: a walking cane and magi on a road

(1.25 cane * 1.2 magi * 1.3 * 6)

is 11.7

or still a lot slower than a rider beefalo with a gossamer saddle, and only slightly faster than a rider beefalo with a normal saddle. 

So unless the character has a movement speed multiplier and is willing to give up on a backpack slot, a rider beefalo is the IDEAL solution for everyone.

[Gashzer]

21 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

Snip-a-roo

Woby is better because she will never be able to die, a beefalo can. I only need a beefalo for movement speed and utility. Fighting on foot is stronger than fighting on a beefalo. Big woby gives that speed boost and utility without worrying about the entire taming process meaning i can focus my efforts on exploring and fightin bosses.

You can achieve more as wes just using a speedy balloon during the first autumn than wasting time taming an ornery beefalo. In the end game all characters should tame a rider beefalo but this is a luxury same as having double bone armours. Once you hit the late game an have all the resources in the world the importance of character choice becomes less an less. Wes with planar weapons and 2 bone armours can tank dfly no issue without getting hurt. Dfly becomes just as easy as if i was playing wolfgang or wigfrid with planar weapons and 2 bone armours.

End game doesnt matter for character choice. Early game is where character differences shine the most.

Woby is just undebateably better than a beefalo because you simply obtain big woby faster with less hassle allowing you to get more done, faster.

Easy logic 

[lenship2]

2 hours ago, Copyafriend said:

deals 51 damage, tentacle spike equivalent damage on melee.

erm acshuklay you're factually incorrect, it does a flat 50 damage

[Cheggf]

26 minutes ago, lenship2 said:

erm acshuklay you're factually incorrect, it does a flat 50 damage

Somebody revoke his gamer card immediately.

[Mysterious box]

2 hours ago, Gashzer said:

Woby is better because she will never be able to die, a beefalo can.

She however requires more maintenance in the long term.  Also while a beefalo can die it will protect your most valuable asset in the process the player so it's more than worth it.

 

2 hours ago, Gashzer said:

I only need a beefalo for movement speed and utility.

Then a rider beefalo is flat out a better investment.

2 hours ago, Gashzer said:

Big woby gives that speed boost and utility without worrying about the entire taming process meaning i can focus my efforts on exploring and fightin bosses.

Using Woby efficiently wastes far more time than the taming process long term so unless your a autumn veteran the beefalo wins here too.

Once upon a time Woby was superior to a beefalo in some aspects then the year of the beefalo nation attacked. Now these days taming a beefalo isn't such a stressful filled process and because of that there doesn't exist a good reason to not tame a beefalo as Walter beyond I'm only playing in a world for 10-20 days total.

[Copyafriend]

52 minutes ago, lenship2 said:

erm acshuklay you're factually incorrect, it does a flat 50 damage

 

24 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Somebody revoke his gamer card immediately.

*dies*

[Cheggf]

Just now, Copyafriend said:

 

*dies*

There should be a dancing react. Wavey kind of looks like how he'd dance if he was like that hand from the Adams family so I'm gonna go with that for now. 

[Jakepeng99]

On 9/7/2023 at 11:17 PM, Gashzer said:

People also forget beefalo can an do die, even in @Lardee video i think it was a guide to be an s-tier wes, his beefalo got hit by a rook and was doomed to die... his way to get around this was to cheat by leaving an rejoining... we can rollback (or rejoin in Lardee's case) to remove all downsides and all problems in this game but that doesnt remove beefalo dying as a huge downside especially when it takes 20days to tame a replacement.

Beefalo Op! They are an infinite weapon

...as long as you rollback whenever your beefalo dies! 

 

I don't think it is that tough to keep a beefalo alive either so i think they are pretty balanced. Maybe a beefalo effigy would be cool if it were expensive.

[MasterDos]

Everyone who is arguing about the pros and cons of Walter doesn't seem to understand one simple thing. Walter is Walter, and nothing else. Do not require him to match other characters, but try to enjoy his personal characteristics

I've played a lot for Walter and I'VE NEVER TAMED A BEEFALO. Why invent a "bicycle" if Walter already has one?
It makes no sense to tame a beefalo, spend time and resources on it if there is already a Wobi for the main tasks. You can quickly explore the caves (you only need monster meat). You can easily transport pieces of chess pieces to summon them on a full moon. You can safely shoot from a slingshot while sitting astride and you do not need any additional damage. Marble is not difficult to get. In addition, you can always walk in marble armor while sitting on a Wobi. Just if it's difficult to play alone - play with friends (what's the problem?)

Obviously, Walter is not the most suitable character for single-player killing of most bosses. But nevertheless, this is a fairly comfortable character for a measured single-player game.

Walter really needs a skill tree that will expand his abilities. But he will always remain a scout who does not lose his mind, is afraid of bees and carries a Wobi with him instead of a backpack) Just use it for a team game and you will be happy)

[Mysterious box]

8 minutes ago, MasterDos said:

Everyone who is arguing about the pros and cons of Walter doesn't seem to understand one simple thing. Walter is Walter, and nothing else. Do not require him to match other characters, but try to enjoy his personal characteristics

I've played a lot for Walter and I'VE NEVER TAMED A BEEFALO. Why invent a "bicycle" if Walter already has one?
It makes no sense to tame a beefalo, spend time and resources on it if there is already a Wobi for the main tasks. You can quickly explore the caves (you only need monster meat). You can easily transport pieces of chess pieces to summon them on a full moon. You can safely shoot from a slingshot while sitting astride and you do not need any additional damage. Marble is not difficult to get. In addition, you can always walk in marble armor while sitting on a Wobi. Just if it's difficult to play alone - play with friends (what's the problem?)

Obviously, Walter is not the most suitable character for single-player killing of most bosses. But nevertheless, this is a fairly comfortable character for a measured single-player game.

Walter really needs a skill tree that will expand his abilities. But he will always remain a scout who does not lose his mind, is afraid of bees and carries a Wobi with him instead of a backpack) Just use it for a team game and you will be happy)

My only gripe with the character honestly is really just that his slingshot is so resource intensive for so little pay off I could live with nothing else changing but this aspect I feel as of late.

[Gashzer]

4 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

My only gripe with the character honestly is really just that his slingshot is so resource intensive for so little pay off I could live with nothing else changing but this aspect I feel as of late.

The slingshot round cost is its greatest balance tho. If you make slingshot rounds go from 10 rounds to 30 or even 50 then all combat even with current fire rate will be so easy. 

A skill to buff the amount of rounds you craft from 10 to 15 would be as far as i would take it to maintain balance. Then you could buff fire rate abit as another skill.

[Mysterious box]

5 hours ago, Gashzer said:

The slingshot round cost is its greatest balance tho. If you make slingshot rounds go from 10 rounds to 30 or even 50 then all combat even with current fire rate will be so easy. 

A skill to buff the amount of rounds you craft from 10 to 15 would be as far as i would take it to maintain balance. Then you could buff fire rate abit as another skill.

Maintain balance? It's widely agreed apoun that the slingshot is bad and not worth using and a large part of that is how tedious it is to maintain I get it you don't really care about the slingshot but there's no reason it should stay so bad nor should Walter stay so resource hungry in a multiplayer game. It's arguably worse than WX's old gear upgrade system because Walter's end up being a resource hog when some of them end up wanting to use the slingshot shot. 

His storage capacity and craft amount are just bad and what your arguing is the equivalent of saying the beefalo bell should be removed from the game to balance how powerful beefalos are. It's not even about making Walter stronger It's about making him feel better to play or do you enjoy hoarding resources or flat out ignoring the slingshot? Imagine setting up a marble farm only to have a single Walter who wants to kill ancient guardian with the slingshot only take 30+ marbles and that's just a single Walter imagine 2 or 3? Maybe they want to use special rounds to them in combat? Welp there goes 6+ blue and purple gems.

[Copyafriend]

12 hours ago, MasterDos said:

It makes no sense to tame a beefalo, spend time and resources on it if there is already a Wobi for the main tasks

My problem is that woby is a direct downgrade from a rider beefalo. A beefalo has 1000 health, more than enough to survive any non combat situation with ease. Unless you actively choose to bring the beefalo into a boss fight or into the ruins i dont understand how a beefalo dies.

a rider beefalo is 12% faster with a normal saddle, it’s 24% faster with a gossamer saddle.
 

woby is cool asf, but taming a beefalo asap is ideal, especially since even a default pre-domesticated beefalo is only 2% slower than woby.

 

a beefalo is really easy to tame, feed them six times then mount them and ride them as often as possible. you’ll need plenty of grass and twigs but riding the beef will allow you to gather it incredibly fast. Once fully tamed they have zero upkeep aswell.

 

Woby needs a constant supply of monster meat, its totally doable but its arguably more expensive and is at best just as expensive as a beefalo. And you need to refeed him extremely regularly or he’ll slow down, so unless you always keep woby at 41+ hunger, you’ll actually be slower than a non domesticated beefalo

[GreenBowers]

On 9/7/2023 at 7:08 PM, Cheggf said:

If it's an invalid playstyle why are you doing it? Just because it isn't blatantly overpowered doesn't mean it's invalid. You're doing it so it's clearly working.

It could be so much better than it is, because right now its dogshit. Fun is found in spite of its faults, and fun can be had without it being busted. I already said im doing it because I like the idea of being a ranged character. A buff to a garbage mechanic doesnt make it blatantly overpowered. Its invalid because you can be a billion times more effective not even doing it, which ill say again, is problematic as one of a characters main gimmicks.

 

Im glad others are agreeing with me and not just shutting down arguments about why klei should improve a character that clearly needs it. To say a beefalo is not a direct upgrade to wobby is insane to me, when it is clearly the case, and walter's monopoly on ranged combat doesnt shine so bright if Hes just the king of a pile of dirt. 

[Cheggf]

53 minutes ago, GreenBowers said:

It could be so much better than it is, because right now its dogshit. Fun is found in spite of its faults, and fun can be had without it being busted. I already said im doing it because I like the idea of being a ranged character. A buff to a garbage mechanic doesnt make it blatantly overpowered. Its invalid because you can be a billion times more effective not even doing it, which ill say again, is problematic as one of a characters main gimmicks.

 

Im glad others are agreeing with me and not just shutting down arguments about why klei should improve a character that clearly needs it. To say a beefalo is not a direct upgrade to wobby is insane to me, when it is clearly the case, and walter's monopoly on ranged combat doesnt shine so bright if Hes just the king of a pile of dirt. 

Why are you bringing up beefalo? Wanda's rift watches are a direct upgrade to them, so beefalo are also completely useless underpowered sacks of garbage because they aren't making me move faster when I'm on day 800 and already did everything. #PlsBuffBeefalo

[kroban]

He definitely needs for pellets to bounce on targets, and more damage. Skill trees are supposed to be mostly focusing on improving characters before the upcoming "bigger threats" with planar defense/damage and ****.

And recently I have been playing Walter and yeah, slingshot kind of sucks even more than before when it comes to the "post-rift end game". Brightshade staff with the bounces and a crown end up doing way more damage as ranged weapon. Slingshot is pretty nice for killing shades, but it requires like, +25 marbles for 1 shadeplant, or like 15 cursed rounds, which is quite expensive and also takes lot of time.

Now, apart from the obvious improvements he needs on the speed he attacks and the proyectile speed:

- A slingshot with bounces, plus the crown? THAT would add a lot of damage for Walter, atleast when it comes to area damage.

- I also think he should have more rounds per craft. 5 or 10 more would mean A LOT. It would mean having to farm way less marble trees, and it would also make the "gem pellets" more viable because you would be spending way less materials.

When it comes to the amount of the stack I dont think that's much of an issue. Would it be nice carrying stacks of like, 100? Yeah, but having 1 skill tree slot dedicated to that? Hell no pls. Walter basically has +9 inventory slots, and theres also bundles. You can easily carry like a stack of marble on Woby

[kroban]

10 hours ago, Gashzer said:

The slingshot round cost is its greatest balance tho. If you make slingshot rounds go from 10 rounds to 30 or even 50 then all combat even with current fire rate will be so easy. 

A skill to buff the amount of rounds you craft from 10 to 15 would be as far as i would take it to maintain balance. Then you could buff fire rate abit as another skill.

But ranged combat stopped being balanced a long time ago...

Like, Maxwell technically can be used as a ranged character for combat, and he does some solid damage at that with his puppets. Wolfgang with the dumbbell perk does like 200 aoe damage per throw AS RANGED in mighty form. And Wanda is technically a ranged character, and yes shes a glass cannon, but considering she can be the top damage dealer out of all the characters, WHILE ALSO being ranged? bruh that's far from balanced.

Theres also the brightshade staff which depending on the situation is the best weapon at the moment as a combo with the enlightened crown.

Walter I would say needs to be the best at range, considering his negative traits which are probably the heaviest out of any other negative traits in the game. He can lose all sanity in 2 hits, and unless you are skilled at the game, you can easily end up in a "sanitylocked" situation where lost health drowns your sanity and you can't heal decently because either you are fighting 2 terrorbeaks or in some shitty situation

[Mysterious box]

2 hours ago, Cheggf said:

Why are you bringing up beefalo? Wanda's rift watches are a direct upgrade to them, so beefalo are also completely useless underpowered sacks of garbage because they aren't making me move faster when I'm on day 800 and already did everything. #PlsBuffBeefalo

You know if everyone thought this way we'd never have gotten refreshes or the reworked farming system.

[Copyafriend]

3 hours ago, Cheggf said:

faster when I'm on day 800 and already did everything.

I know you’re mostly being sarcastic or joking, but i do want to highlight that a beefalo is super easily obtained in the first 30 days, and if you really value the not at all insignificant 12% speedbuff compared to woby, it should be a high priority.

 

my main complaints stem from walter being encouraged to replace his mount, i’d be fine if woby was even 11 speed (and hopefully has a larger stomach, feeding him so often is a pain) but being basically 20% slower (the beef being 25% faster) than a rider beefalo with a gossamer saddle really makes me just want to tame a beefalo as walter instead of using his super cute and fun dog.