Wolfgang got and exclusive the best frozen weapon in the game

[Cassielu]

4 hours ago, Guille6785 said:

please let wolfgang be good at the one thing he's supposed to be good at

Damage, Save resources, Sailing, Resource exploitation, High data, Ranged aoe attack. Now he also got Magic and Followers.

What kind of "one thing" he supposed to be good at? Don't Starve Together?

You know that combat already is the most profitable action in the game, and that damage multipliers are the most powerful combat gains in the game, right? Double damage almost without any punishment has already given him everything.

[Guille6785]

Just now, Cassielu said:

Damage, Save resources, Sailing, Resource exploitation, High data, Ranged aoe attack. Now he also got Magic and Followers.

What kind of "one thing" he supposed to be good at? Don't Starve Together?

You know that combat already is the most profitable action in the game, and that damage multipliers are the most powerful combat gains in the game, right? Double damage almost without any punishment has already given him everything.

combat is not the entirety of DST and not every player values damage as highly as you do

[Cassielu]

3 hours ago, MostMerryTomcat said:

Would appreciate if anyone can clarify that 221 dmg from video, ty!

Wolfgang has an skill that doubles the damage of throwing dumbbells.

221 = 42.5 * 2(mighty) * 2(dumbbells skill) * 1.3(shadow guard)

36 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

combat is not the entirety of DST and not every player values damage as highly as you do

Really? When was the last time we got a DST content update with fun non-combat as effective gameplay? Even updates like RWYP add a new boss combat.

Everything in the post-Rift world is about combat, and you also need two serial difficult battles to unlock it. Given that the theme of "from beyond" is the war between shadow and moon, the weight of the combat will only increase for the foreseeable future.

When you're getting a lot more content, reward and glory from combat than what they're good at, and when people find it more effective to use other characters as disposable tools, of course they values.

 

You are speedruner, don't act like you need me to tell you that higher damage doesn't only means higher damage itself.

[Guille6785]

49 minutes ago, Cassielu said:

You are speedruner, don't act like you need me to tell you that higher damage doesn't only means higher damage itself.

I never claimed damage wasn't useful, I said combat wasn't the entirety of the game, please don't put words into my mouth

I've talked to many extremely talented players over the years and they're universally pretty much the first people who are gonna tell you that while yes, x2 damage is great in a scenario where 1. you are ignorant about indirect methods of killing bosses such as fire farms and ai exploits and 2. you're dead set on rushing bosses, the majority of the playerbase do not play this way, I have a friend who's really good at the game who straight up stopped killing dragonfly because even as a combat character the time it takes to get that first dfly kill hardly makes up for the time saved by not using dwarf stars/fire pits

There's this weird stereotype that the people who value combat extremely highly in the community are the sweaty, experienced players or the speedrunners such as myself when in reality it's the complete opposite, the players who overrate combat the most are the players who know how to survive indefinitely but aren't that experienced (aka intermediate players, the bulk of communities such as the forums), because DST doesn't have an explicit measurement of progress and therefore they naturally gravitate towards bosses as a way to measure their "progression" regardless of whether the loot they receive from combat actually compensates for the time and effort put into doing so

to put it into perspective: if you spend 30 minutes every in-game year smacking an enemy (which is a very generous estimate) that's literally only 5.3% of the game, when you factor in commonly used cheeses such as winona capatults or fuelweaver void cheese to farm these enemies quickly you soon realize that wolfgang is just a tool for people who like direct combat or early kills to enjoy the game more, and not the balance problem that a lot of people think he is

[Cassielu]

1 hour ago, Guille6785 said:

I never claimed damage wasn't useful

I didn't say that either.

I mean indeed higher damage itself is not importance but the fact that it allows you to ignore the really strategic part of the battle, which is how the non-combat game experience helps in the combat. You think I care a lot about combat, but on the contrary, I care about how the simplest combat abilities mask the highlights of experience.

1 hour ago, Guille6785 said:

1. you are ignorant about indirect methods of killing bosses such as fire farms and ai exploits

Funny, I'm actually one of the people who started them, so I know that most of them are just the product of players deliberately looking for bugs exploits that can't be called regular game content, If you don't look for them, they're hard to find. I also know that one of the main reasons players need and start looking for these methods is because when they face the dst boss, not everyone is wolfgang and wicker.

If you look for the answer "in-game", you will easily find that nothing is more effective and has more use cases than damage multiplier.

The existence and popularity of these methods is evidence that the introduction of dst boss has created a huge imbalance between different player experiences and how players need and care about this balance.

1 hour ago, Guille6785 said:

if you spend 30 minutes every in-game year smacking an enemy (which is a very generous estimate) that's literally only 5.3% of the game

It's a highlight, like the climactic moment of a movie's story arc, and just because it takes up less time doesn't mean it's not important. Different characters should have a relatively balanced and equal opportunity to participate, not just because wolfgang is good at combat that he is completely better than other characters.

DST boss combat was also a puzzle, and defeating it depended on how much action you did and how much experience you had with the game mechanics involved. Wolfgang now has not only the double damage needed to skip experiences, but also the ability to better use those experiences, I mean, wtf? 

[Arcwell]

8 hours ago, Toros said:

Do you know how long it takes for a boss with freeze resistance to get back to "normal" freeze?

The effect is permanent as far as I can tell. Tested by freezing some bosses a few times, passing time with TheSim:SetTimeScale(100), then trying to freeze again. Seems like it doesn't even disappear when Klaus changes to phase 2, which I wasn't expecting.

6 hours ago, MostMerryTomcat said:

"IceBell"'s base-dmg is.. 110.5? I reckon, given the recipe, it should do 42.5 base-dmg as well. In CK video it does 221 dmg when thrown by Mighty Wolf. I presume he's Shadow-aligned and further "Chaud-Froided" up? (though I haven't seen any electric effect in clip) With Freezing AoE dmg effect?

Did "PurpleBell" receive any additional effect as well? Theoretically it should, perhaps a slow-down one (akin Walter's Slow-Down Rounds via same gem).

Would appreciate if anyone can clarify that 221 dmg from video, ty!

Icebell base damage is 42.5, no volt goat jelly was used.

The 221 damage comes from 42.5 (base damage) * 2 (mighty) * 2 (dumbbell skill) * 1.3 (shadow-aligned skill) = 221 total damage.

[Dragonboooorn]

Dont Starve Together player base when The OG combat-themed character have highiest DPS in game 

[abrocator]

7 hours ago, Guille6785 said:

There's this weird stereotype that the people who value combat extremely highly in the community are the sweaty, experienced players or the speedrunners such as myself when in reality it's the complete opposite, the players who overrate combat the most are the players who know how to survive indefinitely but aren't that experienced (aka intermediate players, the bulk of communities such as the forums), because DST doesn't have an explicit measurement of progress and therefore they naturally gravitate towards bosses as a way to measure their "progression" regardless of whether the loot they receive from combat actually compensates for the time and effort put into doing so

I’m an intermediate solo player and this is more or less the case for me. Beating harder bosses than DF, Klaus and BQ is a whole ordeal for me (not something I do within the two first years). Having a character like Wolfgang is a massive boon to me.

And I do have these milestones of experiencing the content, and that includes the bosses. If I were to finally defeat CC tomorrow as well as the other things that I haven’t done yet then I might get bored with the world and stop playing it until the next update.

[Toroic]

6 hours ago, Dragonboooorn said:

Dont Starve Together player base when The OG combat-themed character have highiest DPS in game 

If we’re talking about icebells, highest damage per hit but not highest dps.  Post skill tree Wolf might have the highest dps too, though if everyone is getting skill trees that’s not really a fair comparison.

9 hours ago, Guille6785 said:

I never claimed damage wasn't useful, I said combat wasn't the entirety of the game, please don't put words into my mouth

I've talked to many extremely talented players over the years and they're universally pretty much the first people who are gonna tell you that while yes, x2 damage is great in a scenario where 1. you are ignorant about indirect methods of killing bosses such as fire farms and ai exploits and 2. you're dead set on rushing bosses, the majority of the playerbase do not play this way, I have a friend who's really good at the game who straight up stopped killing dragonfly because even as a combat character the time it takes to get that first dfly kill hardly makes up for the time saved by not using dwarf stars/fire pits

There's this weird stereotype that the people who value combat extremely highly in the community are the sweaty, experienced players or the speedrunners such as myself when in reality it's the complete opposite, the players who overrate combat the most are the players who know how to survive indefinitely but aren't that experienced (aka intermediate players, the bulk of communities such as the forums), because DST doesn't have an explicit measurement of progress and therefore they naturally gravitate towards bosses as a way to measure their "progression" regardless of whether the loot they receive from combat actually compensates for the time and effort put into doing so

to put it into perspective: if you spend 30 minutes every in-game year smacking an enemy (which is a very generous estimate) that's literally only 5.3% of the game, when you factor in commonly used cheeses such as winona capatults or fuelweaver void cheese to farm these enemies quickly you soon realize that wolfgang is just a tool for people who like direct combat or early kills to enjoy the game more, and not the balance problem that a lot of people think he is

Pre-skill tree I didn’t consider Wolf to be top tier.  Wanda for example has amazing combat capabilities and critically also amazing utility.

For solo or duo (pre-skill tree) wolf was a good choice but in larger groups I’d say wigfrid does the same job but better because raw damage is not what you need more of (and you could make the argument that a utility focused character contributes more to the group in that scenario).

I’ve played wolfgang almost exclusively since he became available and even modded my own version that was fairly similar to the refreshed version because I like his personality and concept.

Also, the game has changed a lot in the past 5 years and I have nowhere near the time to play I used to, so when I’m playing solo or duo with my wife and bosses are the most likely failure point with a run Wolf suits me perfectly.

I am a little concerned that the skill tree has overbuffed Wolfgang based on the other skill trees we have seen but I don’t want to make too broad of assumptions while we have a limited set of trees and they’re still in beta.

[Wonz]

 

17 hours ago, abrocator said:

In this game you can sometimes choose to engage with a challenge in the “intended” way or to grind resources and “cheese” it. Using these bells is the resource grind way similar to using gunpowder on FW.

How were FW and Crab king and toadstool intended to be beaten? Now you can beat champion and get the rod that makes killing the woven shadows easier but before? The lunar gear is new.  

 

[Jakepeng99]

23 hours ago, Arcwell said:

(I am not arguing anything here, just providing data)

These bosses have no freeze resistance/immunity

• Crab King
• Celestial Champion
• Ancient Guardian
• Malbatross
• Deerclops
• Moose/Goose
• Bearger

These bosses have freeze resistance, meaning it takes more hits to freeze them after each time they're frozen:

• Toadstool
• Bee Queen
• Dragonfly
• Twins of Terror
• Klaus
• Antlion
• Eye of Terror

These bosses are immune to freezing:

• Ancient Fuelweaver
• Nightmare Werepig
• Shadow Pieces

Only crab king and celestial champion look note worthy, though wolfgang could still freeze the grumble bees from bee queen.

[abrocator]

46 minutes ago, Wonz said:

How were FW and Crab king and toadstool intended to be beaten? Now you can beat champion and get the rod that makes killing the woven shadows easier but before? The lunar gear is new.  

Just in a straight up fight. Using weather pains or the brightshade staff is still a straight up fight.