feedback wormwood skill tree feedback

[UltraShadow01]

so far I really like the update
when wilson's rework came out and people said that more characters would get skill trees I was against that
but the way klei handled the 3 new skill trees has actually changed my mind
woodie's skill tree is almost perfectly on point, the new perks really solidifies him as a strong character even if you don't master him to the fullest
wolfgang's skill tree is the one i know the least about so i will skip past it
and wormwood's. oh wormwood, i loved this character ever since he came to DST and i've been farming crops with wormwood non stop since RWYS came out

the wormwood skill tree blew me away and i think a lot of these perks will be on my arsenal constantly
that being said i think some skills need a little tweaking and here are my thoughts and suggestions:

1. fruit fly skill
this skill is really the weakest part of the wormwood skill tree in my opinion
i've never had such a massive issue with fruit fly that would make me consider picking this skill
especially seeing as most of the time i avoid lord of the fruit fly. either by defeating them and getting a season spree farm session
or by summoning the lord to a farm plot away from my farming area
i think that skills needs a bit of a rethink but i'm not going to pretend that i have a good solution

2. mushroom sleep cloud
the skill on the surface is really good and it highlights what i like about the wormwood skills
he feels like a summoner class which for me is very exciting seeing as wormwood wasn't fit for combat before this update
the spore cloud is going to have a lot of uses in different situations but i think something a lot of other people noticed is very true
the moon shrooms shouldn't put wormwood to grogy state when he has the skill selected
but i also think that just removing it isn't a good solution.
so what if wormwood could use the mushcake dish to cancel the effect for a period of time
its not a surprise to anyone that the mushcake isn't a good dish. the way the dish works just doesn't give make it viable for much of anything except for some really niche scenarios
so a different change could be to allow wormwood to plant moon shrooms in mushroom planters when he has the third mushroom planter skill and allow the dish to prevent the grogy effect for a certain period of time.
that way the dish gets more uses and its not outright buffing the ability as it requires more prep and micromanagement during combat

3. farming range skills
the range skills actually lend themselves to be quite useful when farming wild crops in a very large area
but i think dedicating 3 whole upgrades just for that is a bit much
this one is kind of a preference of mine and not something that i think is actually bad about the wormwood skill tree
and at the same time i recognize that some skills just have to be further down the tree so they require more points to unlock
i don't really have a good solution for this one aswell. mainly because like i said its not a massive issue but more of a me problem
in the same boat we have the 3 bloom speed skills and also weirdly the transmutation skills
i can't see myself ever using the juicy berry bush skill except to get juicy berries for the berry bush skill
and the lure plants aswell which are neat for early game but by the 3rd and 4th year you start to get more lure plants then you can find what to do with
monkey tails is another odd one as they are very plentiful from the rift with moon gleams

4. tier 1 skills
the butterfly and seed identifying skills
they are just very underwhelming to any slightly experienced player
and this is probably very much intended
which is fine. i don't except every skill to be shaking the meta for wormwood players
but looking at something like the wolfgang or woodie skill trees you get to pick the routes you want
and you are always spending insight points on what you are going for
for example. you want to upgrade goose. you have to go through some skills to get others but its skill just upgrading the goose
or for wolfgang. you want to upgrade the dumbbells you have to get through getting the new bells but you still get something related to the dumbbells
for wormwood it just feels like throwaway skills. something to start the branch and nothing more
the butterfly one is going to be fun when you have ping but other times most players won't notice its there
and the seed identifying just lands itself to being out right useless
since weeds don't cause stress until they grow out from the random seed to stage 1
and you can't relocate planted seeds so you can't do things like. "oh wait this is a dragon fruit seed let's put it there so it gets family bonus and does crop combos with these crops on that tile"
which i think is a great solution. if you take that skill early game you can setup farms more efficiently
but it still doesn't solve the fact that every player will have to pick it to get other skills when that skill is useless once you get crop specific seeds

5. followers
about the carrat bulbous and saladmander
like with the 3 level skills i don't really like having to go through the carrat to unlock the saladmander and bulbous
but like the 3 level skills i recognize the reason they its there. though it might be nice to swap places between the bulbous and carrat
it doesn't change that much for it to make much of a difference
however the carrat is underwhelming. it just doesn't land itself to being useful
sure it brings items to you but if you because they drop them you can't move or you just have to back track to pick them up
and the carrats aren't smart enough to stack the items more to atleast make them easier to collect later
all they do is concentrate the clutter

and for saladmanders their behavior need heavy tweaking.
right now they fall asleep from the spore cloud wormwood makes
then they lose aggro way too quickly on enemies
and because they always spawn as fire saladmanders they are quite a hazard to keep around
(it would be cool to be able to toggle their fire state but that's just a shot in the dark i had)

and that's the biggest things i wanted to highlight
all said and done i still love this update and i'm very excited to play with it on a survival world
I thought more skill trees wouldn't be fun or in the theme of DST but you've proven me wrong
playing with the skill tree of my main character felt super refreshing

thank you for your work, and i hope you think on some of my points.

update 1:
i think the suggestion of user blinker for mushrooms is a good substitute to my idea with mush cake that requires shaking up long standing features

also after reading lakhnish's post about the issue with skill trees i kinda agree that their execution isn't the best
and i've made a comment on that post

okay real talk klei. carrat. i'd forgive the carrat for staying the same. if i can name them and give them seeds to change their features like with normal carrats. and race them
if i can have pet carrats i'll have them this way any day of the year. pretty please
for actual improvements to the carrat. first expand the items they can collect
they can pick woodie idols but not twig items?
and maybe they could be improved slightly by allowing them to harvest stuff
like picking crops or grass from tuft
and if we could pick them up into our inventory please (the way webber can do with spiders)
so we don't have to kill them and re summon

update 2:
after trying wormwood's petal skill i don't think its justified for it to be so far down the line
the skill really doesn't serve a purpose except clutter wormwood's inventory and maybe turn the flowers into rot

[Blinker]

I think the Moonshroom ability making you groggy is fine, since you it encourages you to use cooked Moonshrooms to remove it, though I agree that Wormwood should definitely be able to plant Moonshroom's in mushroom planters.

I also agree that the farming range skills aren't really useful or a practical use of points, and having 3 skills dedicated to it feels rather boring and like a waste of space, so they should probably be replaced with skills that would be more useful/unique. Here's some ideas.

1: Allow Wormwood to transmute 1 living log into 4 regular logs.

2: While fully bloomed, Wormwood automatically resets bramble traps within 1 tile of him.

3: Resource plants fertilized by Wormwood grow faster and can be harvest 2 additional times before needing to be fertilized again.

Also, the Bee skill is cute, but not worth putting points into unless you decide to base in a bee field, so I feel like it should gain an additional effect, such as letting you harvest honey without angering the bee's in the box, or letting bee's pollinate from you while you are fully blooming.

What's more, the fruit fly skill feel's... weird. It doesn't seem very useful since fruit flies aren't a huge threat, and having to fight the Fruit Fly lord more often feels like more of a hindrance then a perk, since you only need to fight it once to get the Friendly Fruit Fly, and the seeds gained from subsequent fights aren't really necessary. So I don't know what the appeal of this perk is, and it should probably be reworked into being more useful, though maybe still revolving around fruit flies.

Idea: While holding the fruit fly seed, plants tended to by the Friendly Fruit Fly will reach their next stage of growth faster and only consume one arrow of any nutrients they would consume.

I also think the juicy berry bush craft is unnecessary, since having 2 berry bush crafts isn't going to be super important, and the only utility juicy berries would provide over regular berries is easier stacks of rot, but that's only in the early game so by the time you've amassed and fertilized a bunch of juicy berry bushes, you don't need it (Plus his new flower making skill seems like a better method of getting easy rot). So instead, I think it should be changed to the ability to craft Grass Tufts, since it would be more useful and sort of complete the idea of Wormwood being able to mass produce basic resource generators.

Also, I think it would be very funny (and moderately useful) if Wormwood could feed Glommer the Ipecac syrup to make him produce a couple Glommer Goop's.

[Golden Daemon]

1 hour ago, UltraShadow01 said:

1. fruit fly skill
this skill is really the weakest part of the wormwood skill tree in my opinion
i've never had such a massive issue with fruit fly that would make me consider picking this skill
especially seeing as most of the time i avoid lord of the fruit fly. either by defeating them and getting a season spree farm session
or by summoning the lord to a farm plot away from my farming area
i think that skills needs a bit of a rethink but i'm not going to pretend that i have a good solution
my points.

for this skill i think there should be a behavioral change in fruit flies when wormwood is around them , flytrap skill should just recruit up to a certain number of fruit flies for wormwood as followers that fight enemies that attack wormwood.

1 hour ago, UltraShadow01 said:

2. mushroom sleep cloud
the skill on the surface is really good and it highlights what i like about the wormwood skills
he feels like a summoner class which for me is very exciting seeing as wormwood wasn't fit for combat before this update
the spore cloud is going to have a lot of uses in different situations but i think something a lot of other people noticed is very true
the moon shrooms shouldn't put wormwood to grogy state when he has the skill selected
but i also think that just removing it isn't a good solution.
so what if wormwood could use the mushcake dish to cancel the effect for a period of time
its not a surprise to anyone that the mushcake isn't a good dish. the way the dish works just doesn't give make it viable for much of anything except for some really niche scenarios
so a different change could be to allow wormwood to plant moon shrooms in mushroom planters when he has the third mushroom planter skill and allow the dish to prevent the grogy effect for a certain period of time.
that way the dish gets more uses and its not outright buffing the ability as it requires more prep and micromanagement during combat
e you think on some of my points.

i like this idea!

1 hour ago, UltraShadow01 said:

3. farming range skills
the range skills actually lend themselves to be quite useful when farming wild crops in a very large area
but i think dedicating 3 whole upgrades just for that is a bit much
this one is kind of a preference of mine and not something that i think is actually bad about the wormwood skill tree
and at the same time i recognize that some skills just have to be further down the tree so they require more points to unlock
i don't really have a good solution for this one aswell. mainly because like i said its not a massive issue but more of a me problem
in the same boat we have the 3 bloom speed skills and also weirdly the transmutation skills
i can't see myself ever using the juicy berry bush skill except to get juicy berries for the berry bush skill
and the lure plants aswell which are neat for early game but by the 3rd and 4th year you start to get more lure plants then you can find what to do with
monkey tails is another odd one as they are very plentiful from the rift with moon gleams

i think this is one of the weakest part of the skill tree alongside the bee kind branch.
if anything , instead of increasing the farming range (and saving 2-3 extra seconds of walking) they shouldve focused more on farming itself, adding bonuses to planted crops, like increasing the chance that they become giant crops / yield more resources or slightly increase their growing speed.
 

 

1 hour ago, UltraShadow01 said:

4. tier 1 skills
the butterfly and seed identifying skills
they are just very underwhelming to any slightly experienced player
and this is probably very much intended
which is fine. i don't except every skill to be shaking the meta for wormwood players
but looking at something like the wolfgang or woodie skill trees you get to pick the routes you want
and you are always spending insight points on what you are going for
for example. you want to upgrade goose. you have to go through some skills to get others but its skill just upgrading the goose
or for wolfgang. you want to upgrade the dumbbells you have to get through getting the new bells but you still get something related to the dumbbells
for wormwood it just feels like throwaway skills. something to start the branch and nothing more
the butterfly one is going to be fun when you have ping but other times most players won't notice its there
and the seed identifying just lands itself to being out right useless
since weeds don't cause stress until they grow out from the random seed to stage 1
and you can't relocate planted seeds so you can't do things like. "oh wait this is a dragon fruit seed let's put it there so it gets family bonus and does crop combos with these crops on that tile"
which i think is a great solution. if you take that skill early game you can setup farms more efficiently
but it still doesn't solve the fact that every player will have to pick it to get other skills when that skill is useless once you get crop specific seeds

i do agree ,it wouldve been better if wormwood could either have a low chance at identifying random seeds the moment he picks the up (them turning into a random specific seed) or have the planted seeds have a low chance of either turning into the same family as the other crops planted around it or a complementary plant that the soil currently needs or even something completely different like increasing the value wormwood gets from fertilizers he uses on himself or the farm plot wouldve been more appreciated.
 

 

1 hour ago, UltraShadow01 said:

5. followers
about the carrat bulbous and saladmander
like with the 3 level skills i don't really like having to go through the carrat to unlock the saladmander and bulbous
but like the 3 level skills i recognize the reason they its there. though it might be nice to swap places between the bulbous and carrat
it doesn't change that much for it to make much of a difference
however the carrat is underwhelming. it just doesn't land itself to being useful
sure it brings items to you but if you because they drop them you can't move or you just have to back track to pick them up
and the carrats aren't smart enough to stack the items more to atleast make them easier to collect later
all they do is concentrate the clutter

and for saladmanders their behavior need heavy tweaking.
right now they fall asleep from the spore cloud wormwood makes
then they lose aggro way too quickly on enemies
and because they always spawn as fire saladmanders they are quite a hazard to keep around
(it would be cool to be able to toggle their fire state but that's just a shot in the dark i had)

i mostly see carrats as a carrot to leafy meat + carrot seed conversion rather than item gatherers.
overall most of the problems with wormwood followers is due to their ai, since they were not originally designed to act as followers so klei will probably fix them overtime.

[UltraShadow01]

2 hours ago, Blinker said:

1: Allow Wormwood to transmute 1 living log into 4 regular logs.

i think this one is pretty bad. 20 health for 4 logs seems a bit costly when trees are so widely available
if this were added it should give way more to justify the skill
and its circling back to skills that you take for the sake of getting other skills most people aren't going to use this transmute but will pick it anyways to get other skills
 

 

2 hours ago, Blinker said:

3: Resource plants fertilized by Wormwood grow faster and can be harvest 2 additional times before needing to be fertilized again.

i really like this one because it makes wormwood a better option for farming which would make sense for his character
 

 

2 hours ago, Blinker said:

Also, I think it would be very funny (and moderately useful) if Wormwood could feed Glommer the Ipecac syrup to make him produce a couple Glommer Goop's.

i think this one is great. it makes sense within the scope of the ability and it provides a very useful benefit not just for making average sized trees or boat patches but also for wormwood himself to use as fertilizer for farms and for bloom which makes it an arguably better skill than even faster bloomness at level 2 or 3
but the down side is that glommer might die after 1 or 2 uses of it so either they specifically tune it to glommer to give more goop or take less damage
or they allow us prevent / heal back that damage
otherwise this is not viable post infinite full moon i.e. post crab king and archives
and by that point as the player you already have access growth formula in bulk which is way better for blooming
and more rot and manure than you know what to do with. that together with growth formula satisfies all nutrient types

 

2 hours ago, Blinker said:

I think the Moonshroom ability making you groggy is fine, since you it encourages you to use cooked Moonshrooms, though I agree that Wormwood should definitely be able to plant Moonshroom's in mushroom planters.

i had to go in to check that one
i didn't know that the cooked variant of the mushrooms didn't put you to sleep
but unfortunately when cooked they don't trigger the spore cloud ability
so either that should be added along with the wormwood can farm moon caps in the mushroom planter
or like i suggested the mushcake dish should be changed
i think the mushcake idea is very interesting. it makes it slightly more complex to make use and utilize (get and use properly) the ability
but if the other method was choosen i wouldn't be happy. i don't care if the dish stays useless i was trying to solve multiple issues with one change

 

[Mysterious box]

7 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I will say the more time I have to digest it Wormwood's skill tree is the one I feel is bad character wise most of his skills are straight up bad either by design or principle.

Him being able to craft resource producers like bushes is bad in two ways it undermines exploration and resource management for one. Then for two it wastes what should be something that would enchance his gameplay unless your decorating there's no reason for this to be a ability you would use besides your forced to for a path. Does it improve his gameplay loop no. Does it fill some niche he lacks no. And before someone jumps down my throat if you want to craft resource producing plants fine then separate it from Wormwood and give him something worthwhile in its place like let him grow moon shrooms or something.

Then there's his other skills I like the more creative ones like sleep spores, and flower petal production for example but then there's absolutely worthless ones even in terms of quality of life like the fruit fly path and the increased tending range that make me think originally his post celestial champion skills on the left side were meant to be pre celestial champion but were put there to make up for the fact he wouldn't have a shadow path for lore reasons.

Personally I'd remove fruit fly tree, tending tree, butterfly, as well as the production plants except lure plant. Then split his skills between two paths.

Mutation where his skills are based around directly changing himself where his abilities like spores, petals, bloom, and more new ones.

Live giver where his skills are more based around growing plants faster, and bringing plants to life while giving new interactions with the rest of the plant mobs of the constant like post cc left side lure plant included.

Figured I'd repost this here since this is a Wormwood feedback post specifically.

[Copyafriend]

18 minutes ago, UltraShadow01 said:

think this one is pretty bad. 20 health for 4 logs seems a bit costly when trees are so widely available
if this were added it should give way more to justify the skill
and its circling back to skills that you take for the sake of getting other skills most people aren't going to use this transmute but will pick it anyways to get other skills

I mean, most people end up with an excess of living logs from treeguards, i think its a pretty ok skill, but not crazy noteworthy 

[Blinker]

18 minutes ago, UltraShadow01 said:

i think this one is pretty bad. 20 health for 4 logs seems a bit costly when trees are so widely available
if this were added it should give way more to justify the skill
and its circling back to skills that you take for the sake of getting other skills most people aren't going to use this transmute but will pick it anyways to get other skills

I'll be honest the main reason for the transmute skill is because I like the idea of people playing Wormwood with the self imposed rule of "I can't chop down trees". Maybe the number of logs is too low, but I was mainly thinking of it as an alternative to wood chopping that doesn't outstrip it in terms of effectiveness, especially since it doesn't take long for most Wormwood players to amass a ridiculous amount of living logs. I think a stack of 20 living logs giving you 80 regular logs is enough, any more and it might be a bit too much.

[bloopah]

3 hours ago, UltraShadow01 said:

i can't see myself ever using the juicy berry bush skill except to get juicy berries for the berry bush skill

They must've mixed up the recipes here.

Juicy Berries for regular Berry Bushes?

Regular Berries for Juicy Berry Bushes?

[UltraShadow01]

i don't think its a mistake.
its made so you can get bushes you don't have on your world
if you started your world with just juicy you could get normal berries

 

[skile]

1 minute ago, bloopah said:

They must've mixed up the recipes here.

Juicy Berries for regular Berry Bushes?

Regular Berries for Juicy Berry Bushes?

I believe that's by design. 

If your world has regular berry bushes, you can use their berries to make juicy berry bushes, and vice versa. 

[UltraShadow01]

10 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Figured I'd repost this here since this is a Wormwood feedback post specifically.

i don't think all these skills need to be scrapped completely
but i don't think we need 3 levels of the same skill that doesn't have that many applications
like the larger tend range really doesn't help you the same way more planer damage helps wolfgang

[Mysterious box]

3 minutes ago, UltraShadow01 said:

i don't think all these skills need to be scrapped completely
but i don't think we need 3 levels of the same skill that doesn't have that many applications
like the larger tend range really doesn't help you the same way more planer damage helps wolfgang

I mean that's what I said the only ones I feel need to be scrapped are the resource production plants, and the super niche skillls while being replaced with more fitting ones in those cases specifically.

I do think the tending range one is one of the ones that should be removed though.

[bloopah]

7 minutes ago, UltraShadow01 said:

i don't think its a mistake.
its made so you can get bushes you don't have on your world
if you started your world with just juicy you could get normal berries

 

Ah, makes sense. But then, like you said, I'd also just keep them around for regular Berry Bush production.

[Copyafriend]

6 minutes ago, bloopah said:

Ah, makes sense. But then, like you said, I'd also just keep them around for regular Berry Bush production.

Do you mind if i ask why? Even the spoilage of juicy berry bushes is a useful feature in my eyes, i dont know why you would prefer regular outside of aesthetics

[bloopah]

8 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

Do you mind if i ask why? Even the spoilage of juicy berry bushes is a useful feature in my eyes, i dont know why you would prefer regular outside of aesthetics

They're in my opinion bad to look at, harvesting them has a bigger chance of Gobblers devouring the Juicy Berries before you get an amount higher than you would with regular Berry Bushes and if there's one unfertilized Juicy Berry Bush between fertilized ones it's a pain to fertilize that singular one.

[Squidyfoo]

As a Wormwood main, I'm liking his skill tree but most things mentioned in your post, I agree are a little lacking and feel like filler. Especially the three bloom area increasing skills. I think it would be neat if there was upgrades to Wormwood's traps and bramble husks. Woodie and Wolfgang got upgrades for their items so I think Wormwood should too.

Bramble Trap - 

4 hours ago, Blinker said:

While fully bloomed, Wormwood automatically resets bramble traps within 1 tile of him.

I think this would be pretty cool and neat as you can be more quick and efficient about it. Maybe there could be an upgrade that would get the enemies that set off your trap stuck for a little while because of the spikes or something.

Bramble Husks -

These could be very interesting to receive upgrades for. An idea I had was the armor would set off a large wave of spikes in your area after 3-5 hits from an enemy or when the armor breaks. Maybe if Wormwood is blooming it could even set the wave of spikes to 1-2 hits. On the other hand there could be some sort of skill that would buff durability or protection but I wanted to think of something more interesting for the skill tree.

One kind of random idea I had was a leafy pinwheel Wormwood could craft that would extinguish fire. I don't think this is even a good or interesting idea but hey it's an idea.

[ShadowbirdRH]

My input: The following skills are pretty much worthless: Seed Sleuth, Mushroom Mastery 1&2, Mushroom Multiplier (can always just make more planters for more/faster produce), Poor Sap, Farmhand 1-3, Bee Kind, Fly Trap. lunar cultivators should be a lower tier skill, given that anyone can do all of that with a mad scientist's lab. As for some suggestions to replace them...

• Able to plant moonshrooms in mushroom planters
• Prevent mushrooms in planters on surface from rotting in Winter
• Able to plant spores in soil (cost should be substantial)
• Able to use Shroom Skin and some other ingredients to craft a quantity of items which induce mushrooms to permanently grow into mushtrees
• Include grass tufts along with the berry bushes and saplings
• Ability to induce growth of new vines (up to a given max, 4-6) on above average tree trunks

Regarding berry bushes and monkey tails... does this produce a healthy plant on the ground, or an uprooted plant in the inventory? If the latter, some skill to undo the damage caused by transplanting would be greatly appreciated.

The next two should replace the Lunar Cultivator skills behind the locks...

• Produce Snaptooth Seedling (crafting to require a leafy meat and/or Fleshy Bulb)
• Improved plant affinity: ability to recruit saladmanders, snaptooths, grass gators, and treeguards as followers.

 

[bloopah]

1 hour ago, ShadowbirdRH said:

Produce Snaptooth Seedling

Please, I'd sacrifice my leg to have any mob from Hamlet added, especially one that follows Wormwood.

[UltraShadow01]

6 hours ago, ShadowbirdRH said:

lunar cultivators should be a lower tier skill, given that anyone can do all of that with a mad scientist's lab.

you clearly haven't tested the wormwood skills because they don't just mutate like the potion from the hallowed nights event
they are full on followers. not great ones but they are followers lol

 

6 hours ago, ShadowbirdRH said:

Mushroom Multiplier (can always just make more planters for more/faster produce)

at the cost of more living logs and the initial resource investment in planters
late game. sure you have a massive supply of living logs
early to mid game though...

[webberer]

14 hours ago, UltraShadow01 said:

wormwood could use the mushcake dish to cancel the effect for a period of time

You give me an idea that, as wormwood could use moon shrooms very often, it would be great if Wormwood could plant moon shrooms on mushrooms planters.

[UltraShadow01]

1 minute ago, webberer said:

it would be great if Wormwood could plant moon shrooms on mushrooms planters.

yeah i intentionally suggested that either the 2 options should come together
if you have to make mushcake to be efficient with wormwood spore cloud you should be able to mass produce mushcakes

[Dr.Webber]

I think it would be interesting if they  explored a wormwood shadow alignment but if your gonna do a character that is only lunar aligned then it might is well be him

[Antynomity]

All of these except the bee one just need to go
It'd be so much more beneficial if all of these got replaced with skills that improve Wormwood's non-skill related crafts like the bramble trap and husk, as examples:
Bramble husk now protects from 85% of the incoming damage
Bramble husk now has more durability and it's AoE ability is improved
Bramble traps AoE ability is improved
Bramble traps can be rearmed faster

Also one of the blooming skills should allow you to reset the traps automatically when you're blooming. "Bramble traps now reset by contact with your pollen."

[UltraShadow01]

1 hour ago, Dr.Webber said:

I think it would be interesting if they  explored a wormwood shadow alignment but if your gonna do a character that is only lunar aligned then it might is well be him

maxwell will probably be only shadow aligned
i think that's the intention some characters will have a choice and others don't

14 minutes ago, Antynomity said:

All of these except the bee one just need to go

i don't agree.
first i think the bee one is only really useful in very specific cases so wasting a whole point on it is not that useful
secondly i think that the farmhand skills are just used too much
what i mean is like i said in my post there's no reason for 3 whole levels dedicated to increasing the range
1 level is more than enough but also you need to think about it from a game design perspective
the skills offer a small cost towards other skills

this can be changed to make skills that cost multiple points but it comes with its own issues of expanding the scope of the skill tree systems
and you would need to count skill points spent as appose to skill opened for the locks

which is to be said kind of a work around rather than a fix
 

 

19 minutes ago, Antynomity said:

It'd be so much more beneficial if all of these got replaced with skills that improve Wormwood's non-skill related crafts like the bramble trap and husk, as examples:
Bramble husk now protects from 85% of the incoming damage
Bramble husk now has more durability and it's AoE ability is improved
Bramble traps AoE ability is improved
Bramble traps can be rearmed faster

however i do like these ideas
but we could see them integrated into the skill tree without just pressing ctrl + A, delete
i made the post because some ideas are better and some are worse but just throwing everything out the window is not a viable solution

[Jakepeng99]

17 hours ago, UltraShadow01 said:

so far I really like the update
when wilson's rework came out and people said that more characters would get skill trees I was against that
but the way klei handled the 3 new skill trees has actually changed my mind
woodie's skill tree is almost perfectly on point, the new perks really solidifies him as a strong character even if you don't master him to the fullest
wolfgang's skill tree is the one i know the least about so i will skip past it
and wormwood's. oh wormwood, i loved this character ever since he came to DST and i've been farming crops with wormwood non stop since RWYS came out

the wormwood skill tree blew me away and i think a lot of these perks will be on my arsenal constantly
that being said i think some skills need a little tweaking and here are my thoughts and suggestions:

1. fruit fly skill
this skill is really the weakest part of the wormwood skill tree in my opinion
i've never had such a massive issue with fruit fly that would make me consider picking this skill
especially seeing as most of the time i avoid lord of the fruit fly. either by defeating them and getting a season spree farm session
or by summoning the lord to a farm plot away from my farming area
i think that skills needs a bit of a rethink but i'm not going to pretend that i have a good solution

2. mushroom sleep cloud
the skill on the surface is really good and it highlights what i like about the wormwood skills
he feels like a summoner class which for me is very exciting seeing as wormwood wasn't fit for combat before this update
the spore cloud is going to have a lot of uses in different situations but i think something a lot of other people noticed is very true
the moon shrooms shouldn't put wormwood to grogy state when he has the skill selected
but i also think that just removing it isn't a good solution.
so what if wormwood could use the mushcake dish to cancel the effect for a period of time
its not a surprise to anyone that the mushcake isn't a good dish. the way the dish works just doesn't give make it viable for much of anything except for some really niche scenarios
so a different change could be to allow wormwood to plant moon shrooms in mushroom planters when he has the third mushroom planter skill and allow the dish to prevent the grogy effect for a certain period of time.
that way the dish gets more uses and its not outright buffing the ability as it requires more prep and micromanagement during combat

3. farming range skills
the range skills actually lend themselves to be quite useful when farming wild crops in a very large area
but i think dedicating 3 whole upgrades just for that is a bit much
this one is kind of a preference of mine and not something that i think is actually bad about the wormwood skill tree
and at the same time i recognize that some skills just have to be further down the tree so they require more points to unlock
i don't really have a good solution for this one aswell. mainly because like i said its not a massive issue but more of a me problem
in the same boat we have the 3 bloom speed skills and also weirdly the transmutation skills
i can't see myself ever using the juicy berry bush skill except to get juicy berries for the berry bush skill
and the lure plants aswell which are neat for early game but by the 3rd and 4th year you start to get more lure plants then you can find what to do with
monkey tails is another odd one as they are very plentiful from the rift with moon gleams

4. tier 1 skills
the butterfly and seed identifying skills
they are just very underwhelming to any slightly experienced player
and this is probably very much intended
which is fine. i don't except every skill to be shaking the meta for wormwood players
but looking at something like the wolfgang or woodie skill trees you get to pick the routes you want
and you are always spending insight points on what you are going for
for example. you want to upgrade goose. you have to go through some skills to get others but its skill just upgrading the goose
or for wolfgang. you want to upgrade the dumbbells you have to get through getting the new bells but you still get something related to the dumbbells
for wormwood it just feels like throwaway skills. something to start the branch and nothing more
the butterfly one is going to be fun when you have ping but other times most players won't notice its there
and the seed identifying just lands itself to being out right useless
since weeds don't cause stress until they grow out from the random seed to stage 1
and you can't relocate planted seeds so you can't do things like. "oh wait this is a dragon fruit seed let's put it there so it gets family bonus and does crop combos with these crops on that tile"
which i think is a great solution. if you take that skill early game you can setup farms more efficiently
but it still doesn't solve the fact that every player will have to pick it to get other skills when that skill is useless once you get crop specific seeds

5. followers
about the carrat bulbous and saladmander
like with the 3 level skills i don't really like having to go through the carrat to unlock the saladmander and bulbous
but like the 3 level skills i recognize the reason they its there. though it might be nice to swap places between the bulbous and carrat
it doesn't change that much for it to make much of a difference
however the carrat is underwhelming. it just doesn't land itself to being useful
sure it brings items to you but if you because they drop them you can't move or you just have to back track to pick them up
and the carrats aren't smart enough to stack the items more to atleast make them easier to collect later
all they do is concentrate the clutter

and for saladmanders their behavior need heavy tweaking.
right now they fall asleep from the spore cloud wormwood makes
then they lose aggro way too quickly on enemies
and because they always spawn as fire saladmanders they are quite a hazard to keep around
(it would be cool to be able to toggle their fire state but that's just a shot in the dark i had)

and that's the biggest things i wanted to highlight
all said and done i still love this update and i'm very excited to play with it on a survival world
I thought more skill trees wouldn't be fun or in the theme of DST but you've proven me wrong
playing with the skill tree of my main character felt super refreshing

thank you for your work, and i hope you think on some of my points.

update 1:
i think the suggestion of user blinker for mushrooms is a good substitute to my idea with mush cake that requires shaking up long standing features

also after reading lakhnish's post about the issue with skill trees i kinda agree that their execution isn't the best
and i've made a comment on that post

okay real talk klei. carrat. i'd forgive the carrat for staying the same. if i can name them and give them seeds to change their features like with normal carrats. and race them
if i can have pet carrats i'll have them this way any day of the year. pretty please
for actual improvements to the carrat. first expand the items they can collect
they can pick woodie idols but not twig items?
and maybe they could be improved slightly by allowing them to harvest stuff
like picking crops or grass from tuft
and if we could pick them up into our inventory please (the way webber can do with spiders)
so we don't have to kill them and re summon

update 2:
after trying wormwood's petal skill i don't think its justified for it to be so far down the line
the skill really doesn't serve a purpose except clutter wormwood's inventory and maybe turn the flowers into rot

The carrats can be turned into leafy meat which is niche. Also, being able to see the seeds that are planted is great for removing any weeds before they sprout up. Butteffly skill is just neat qol. Main problem with the summoner branch is that the left branch mostly sucks. The only good ones are the seed skill, the 3 blooming speed increases, and the Summer insulation. After getting those ones, you need to waste another point on either the annoying inventory clogging flower one, or the useless top branch which ends up getting you much less value.