I'm not mad, just dissapointed.

[Theukon-dos]

Hah! Gottem! I AM mad! Frustrated, at the very least. 

 

After being disappointed by the last two updates, I was actually pretty excited for the whole alignment system. A late-game perk that could potentially change a character in interesting ways? Sign me up! Sadly, that is not what I signed up for. Instead, we got entire skill trees for characters. And while I'm not inherently against the addition... I don't think it really works for a whole lot of reasons. So why not? Let's get into them. 

 

First, Wormwood. Honestly, I think his perk tree is just ok. Nothing more, nothing less. 

I feel like the entirety of the "farmhand" chain is basically useless, on account of Blooming already being a super fast way of tending crops, along with there being other options if that's not fast enough.

Fly trap is... why?

The crafting line is alright, though I can't see myself using it for saplings. 

The mushroom line I like the idea of, but I feel like Wormwood doesn't get enough value out of them. Blue Mushrooms are useless, and he already has infinite sanity just from using a shovel. Though the spore cloud from moon shrooms is a pretty fun perk. Might be fun if all the mushrooms had an effect when eaten by Wormwood. 

Being able to make a creature poop to death with the Ipecaca Syrup is definitely funny, but it's completely outmatched by just feeding a werepig, and the fact it only works on creatures that can poop instead of anything that can eat it is moderately disappointing. (Both of these could be fixed by making the syrup very, very effective on Bearger).

Bee Kind, Petal Production, and Butterfly Friend are all nice and quaint. But also feel like they should just be part of Wormwood's kit by default? I mean he is a plant after all. Why would bees and butterflies react to him? Hell, haven't people wanted the bee perk for years at this point due to the fact that they're attracted to Blooming Wormwood? 

I know I've mostly been negative about Wormie's perks thus far, but the post-CC perks really bring it all together in my book. The lunar guardian perks are fantastic. I especially like the one that basically just turns the Brightshade sword into a Thulecite Club but good. And being able to have some on-demand followers with unique effects is real good. Saladmanders are a bit too volatile both mentally and physically though, but it's an easy fix. 

I am slightly disappointed by the lack of any shadow-alignment though. I understand why this is the case, Wormwood is a moon emigrant after all. But given that the whole pitch was "pick a side", it is slightly disappointed that Wormwood can't do that. Let the kid side with the shadows, be a rebel. It's not a phase mom. 

 

Second: Wolfgang... *sigh*.

My first thought on hearing "Wolfgang has a skill tree now" was "Wow! Wolfgang's already super strong, he doesn't need a skill tree."

My second thought upon seeing the skill tree was "Wow! How did they make something I didn't even want so damn disappointing?"

I'm sorry, but the Wolfgang skill tree is just so, so boring. It doesn't actually do anything. It just gives him more raw numbers on a character that was 90% raw numbers already. 

Chore workout? Sure, fine. It honestly feels more obligatory than anything, It's not really useful for rocks being that they break so fast anyways. But you'll be turning a forest into kindling faster than you can kill deerclops, so that's nice.

Coaching is... weird. I guess it's nice for the team sanity. But the idea of Wolfgang being able to buff followers is weird to me given that Wolfgang's the character people play when they want to make the multiplayer-focused content their bicce without needing followers. 

Leg day feels like Klei finally cracking to all the people who have wanted Wolfgang's speed back sense the rework and I hate it >:(

Dumbell developer... I guess is nice, but the fire bells are to arsonistic and the thermbells are to pointless, so it's really only the ice bells that serve a purpose. 

Heavy hitter is fine. You can do some serious damage with the dumbells, but I personally wouldn't bother. Maybe if this also boosted the range you can throw them, I'd be more amible to them. 

Might... Might...

Spoiler

Y'know, one of my big fears going into the update was that Wolfgang's alignment perks would do nothing but make his modifers effect Planar Damage. But sadly, what we got isn't much better. 

5 entire perks, all of them only increasing planar weapon's planar damage by 5, for a total of +25. Why must you make things so difficult Klei? What did Wolfgang do to deserve this? Is Wolfgang's damage really that high, to the point you'll pull entire mechanics out of your couch cushins to nerf him? On the bright side, because it's a flat boost to planar damage, the Brightshade Staff becomes a Weapon of Mass Destruction in Wolfgang's hands. But given what happened with Wigfrid? It remains to be seen if it'll stay that way. 

And while we're at it, I mentioned that my concern was that Wolfgang's alignment perks would only boost planar damage. But frankly, what we actually got wasn't much better. 3 levels each, +10% damage against the other alignment. Just- just why? I mean obviously that's insanely good. More damage on top of a character that already deals a ton of damage. But again, it's just so boring. Wormwood has a personal plant guard and can create life with his alignment perks. Why can't Wolfgang get some nutty abilities? Like being able to drag a meteor out of the sky for big damage, or tear a shadow fissure into the ground to debuff enemies in an AOE around it. Yeah they'd probably be weaker overall but they'd be sick as hell too.

None of that really matters though, because Wolfgang has 6 completely useless "perks". Gym Mastery and Push the Limits 1-5. Klei, I'm sorry, but nobody uses the gym. It was made completely irrelevant when you made dumbells way faster and let Wolfgang build mightiness by doing the things that benefit from mightiness. 

And you know what? I think Push the Limits would be a really good buff to the Gym. It still wouldn't be good; again you build up mightiness just by using mightiness. But it would atleast give the gym a niche. A niche that is absolutely not worth 5 insight. 

But because of this, you're only 1 insight point short for the perks you actually care about. Which is nice, but none of that changes the fact that Wolfgang is a character that needed nothing, got nothing, and was still disappointing. 

 

And finally, we have Woodie. By God we have Woodie. Canadian mains, you won today. 

 

Everything Woodie could have asked for, he got. Buffs to all the wereforms? Great. Less penelty for eating idols? Great. Faster picking? Great. Bonuses against treeguards? Great. Immunity to full moons? fan-bloody-tastic. An early-game walking cane? Nobody asked for that but great. I especially find it funny how Klei got so tired of people comparing Werebeaver to Bearger, that they just made the Beaver into Bearger. Sure is one way to solve the problem.

I think there are a few stinkers here and there.

Weremoose 3 definitely falls under the catagory of "basic QoL perk that should just be a part of the character". And Weregoose's perks are definitely pretty weak overall. I think it would be funny if the weregoose mastery let Woodie choose a landing spot to effectively teleport like Wortox, but instead of souls, it cost Woodie HP as the transformation wore off mid-flight and he crashed to the ground. 

The secondary woodcarver perks also fall off past the mid-game. Hardwood helmets don't have the staying power that Wigfrid's battle helms have due to only a 70% DR, though the walking stick is a bit better sense it'll atleast get you into winter, plus it can squeeze some extra time out if your server has bad luck with walrus tusks. 

And honestly the disparity between Woodie's lunar perk and shadow perk is kind of hilarious. Do you want to ignore shadow creatures while transformed? Or just not have a downside. I'm sure there are situations where no shadows are good, but by god how do you compete with no downside. I have an idea as of how, let Woodie make shadow idols out of his sanity. Same effect as regular idols, just spoil in ~30 seconds or so. So then your choice becomes "Spam your main perk to your heart's content" or "Ignore your main downside completely". That feels like a good dichotomy to me. 

 

All and all, Woodie's skill tree makes him much more serviceable as a character and fixes every problem he had... Which is why it shouldn't be tied to a skill tree. 

People have been asking for Woodie buffs sense DST came out. And then kept asking for them after the Woodie refresh when people realized that his refresh only made him go from "less than useless" to "useless". and completely lacked any sort of scaling. But so many of these perks would do so good as just part of his character. 

T1 and T2 Were-perks can just be baked into the default wereforms. While the T3 and Mastery perks could be locked behind an upgrade to the idols made with powerful lunar magics, which also wouldn't have the HP/Sanity penelty of the basic idols. The extra damage against treeguards might have to go, but the treeguard idol can stay. Woodworking would be a great perk if it didn't have to compete with options that would stay relevant longer, and Quick Pick... eh he can keep it. As a treat.

 

And ultimately, I think that Woodie and Wolfgang encapsulate the problems with giving these characters skill trees. Either the Rich get Richer, as is the case with Wolfgang. Or the character is completely dependant on their skill tree, as is the case with Woodie. It's just an entirely new system that the game wasn't designed for, built for, or balanced around. There's also the problem of many perks just being basic QoL or flavor perks that don't have any business locked behind a skill tree. Like Wormwood's bug perks or Woodie's weremoose 3 perk.

 

Oh yeah and there where some other things too. 

The pillar's cool, assuming that it's just using a placeholder sprite. As is the Umbralla's new effect, though the VFX could definitely be better. 

 

I also like the changes to planar equipment. Specifically in the same way I like it when my cat's litter box finally stops smelling. Yes it's better than it was before, but it's still a pile of dung I have to clean up. 

I'm sorry, but no amount of changes to planar equipment or things to use planar equipment against will change the fact that the problem is the very existence of planar mechanics. And frankly the more these updates happen the more I'm convinced it's unnecessary. How much more do they need buffed before people would use them over football helmets/dark swords? The brightshade helmet alone has no sanity drain buffs the effectiveness of brightshade weapons, makes you immune to Charlie attacks, and can be repaired for a fraction of it's crafting cost. Is that not enough to justify making it for most people? I sure wouldn't think so. 

 

 

Well, atleast that part was shorter than everything. So yes, those are my thoughts on the update. I do think that this was a net positive overall. The more tolerable Planar Mechanics are the better. And I'll take Maxwell, Wanda, or Wickerbottom skill trees any day of the week if it means buffs for characters like Woodie, even if I'd rather that be separate from the skill tree entirely. 

[xDpromonick9]

1 hour ago, Theukon-dos said:

Hah! Gottem! I AM mad! Frustrated, at the very least. 

A lot of the thing you mentioned in the wormwood category are simply things that would make him too strong/ too weird because of how it is already done. People were asking for brightshade interactions and they gave us, refined and not overpowered. Now I have to choose between a different type of light source in the early game with the bulbous lightbug or more damage with brightshade armor (I know that you can change your character and spend your skill points again for the same world but the idea still stands the same as it would require in-game work to do it so).

On another note, people were asking for wolfgang speed bonus and they did gave us but in a different way, simply putting in back when he's mighty would've been the worst decision. I also feel like you didn't made a good impression by putting the conclusion to your thoughts in the title/beginning of the post. 

Now let me see if I can disagree with you and agree at different points in the same post since I liked your post.

1 hour ago, Theukon-dos said:

First, Wormwood. Honestly, I think his perk tree is just ok. Nothing more, nothing less. 

I feel like the entirety of the "farmhand" chain is basically useless, on account of Blooming already being a super fast way of tending crops, along with there being other options if that's not fast enough.

Fly trap is... why?

The crafting line is alright, though I can't see myself using it for saplings. 

The mushroom line I like the idea of, but I feel like Wormwood doesn't get enough value out of them. Blue Mushrooms are useless, and he already has infinite sanity just from using a shovel. Though the spore cloud from moon shrooms is a pretty fun perk. Might be fun if all the mushrooms had an effect when eaten by Wormwood. 

So, the number 1 thing I liked about the wormwood tree was the damage buff of course. But that doesn't encourage me to hate on different aspects of the other perks since they don't instantaneously appear attracting (I'm assuming that you haven't played the beta yet).

Actually tending to crops in a larger area and spawning the fruit flies earlier makes for an amazing swapout experience. If I don't want to play wormwood but wannna have an easier time farming in these 20 to 80 days for spices/wurt vegetables etc.. Then I will never even use the damage perk so I better spend them in the other farm areas

 

Now, about the tent to crops range increase perk, I agree 99% with you that it can be a bit underwhelming specially since the ability to craft saplings and berry bushes was really good. So one feature was downed by the other. In YOUR perspective it might seems like it is nothing, but for someone who isn't even playing wormwood in the first case, inspecting your seeds for weeds and not having to walk too much around the crops in a line IS something that helps the player.

One single walk in a straight line is enough to tent everything, making the game slighty more optimized (same as willow's ability to cook faster or woodie's perk to pick up resources quicker). It's not too much but I think that if it was it would probably be consider then overpowered since he already have so much going on.

The mushroom perk is also already enough to make a difference, and a better perk for casual wormwood mains then the farm one, which is perfecly made aside from each other. If wormwood had any buff on eating mushrooms it will ALSO be overpowered and require an even bigger skill tree which makes little to no sense to what they can actually add without ruining his identity gamestyle (wich is the healing from foods), and making him stupidly broken with buffs life warly, having to actually make the game power ceilling even higher. I feel like everything on him was perfect, aside from..;

1 hour ago, Theukon-dos said:

Being able to make a creature poop to death with the Ipecaca Syrup is definitely funny, but it's completely outmatched by just feeding a werepig, and the fact it only works on creatures that can poop instead of anything that can eat it is moderately disappointing. (Both of these could be fixed by making the syrup very, very effective on Bearger).

Bee Kind, Petal Production, and Butterfly Friend are all nice and quaint. But also feel like they should just be part of Wormwood's kit by default? I mean he is a plant after all. Why would bees and butterflies react to him? Hell, haven't people wanted the bee perk for years at this point due to the fact that they're attracted to Blooming Wormwood? 

I know I've mostly been negative about Wormie's perks thus far, but the post-CC perks really bring it all together in my book. The lunar guardian perks are fantastic. I especially like the one that basically just turns the Brightshade sword into a Thulecite Club but good. And being able to have some on-demand followers with unique effects is real good. Saladmanders are a bit too volatile both mentally and physically though, but it's an easy fix. 

I am slightly disappointed by the lack of any shadow-alignment though. I understand why this is the case, Wormwood is a moon emigrant after all. But given that the whole pitch was "pick a side", it is slightly disappointed that Wormwood can't do that. Let the kid side with the shadows, be a rebel. It's not a phase mom. 

yeah.. I can totally agree with you on the poop thing.

However, I haven't tested it out yet, but I bet a good farm could be made to automatically kill pigs for rot (also potentially the pig skin that stays on the ground assuming I can find a way to not be eaten by the next pigs) and poop with the Ipecaca. I am most certaintly the devs knew about the lightbulb-werepig farm and didn't actually made this an accident.

All the perks that should be in his kit are being.. You guessed it! Being added. And again, in a different way that refreshes the game to a whole extend we do not know the end results of it yet. So many possibilities it feels almost endlessly. Think about when they add it to all characters. Same as wolfgang, some might say it is useless and some might say it should be on his kit or else they won't even bother leveling it up since the other perks are better anyway. That is why most of them have been specifically placed to not intertwine with each other, and other been required to keep evolving. Neat idea by Klei.

I agree that saladmanders need a bit of change here and there too. Maybe some kinda of thermal stone at a health cost? Hope it doesn't put anything on fire in my base. Maybe the spawned one will be able to do something around him that can benefit other players too like WX idk.

I find it kinda weird for him to align with the shadows, it would be same as Maxwell aligning with the moon. Like, it doesn't make sense at all.

2 hours ago, Theukon-dos said:

Second: Wolfgang... *sigh*.

My first thought on hearing "Wolfgang has a skill tree now" was "Wow! Wolfgang's already super strong, he doesn't need a skill tree."

My second thought upon seeing the skill tree was "Wow! How did they make something I didn't even want so damn disappointing?"

I'm sorry, but the Wolfgang skill tree is just so, so boring. It doesn't actually do anything. It just gives him more raw numbers on a character that was 90% raw numbers already. 

Chore workout? Sure, fine. It honestly feels more obligatory than anything, It's not really useful for rocks being that they break so fast anyways. But you'll be turning a forest into kindling faster than you can kill deerclops, so that's nice.

Coaching is... weird. I guess it's nice for the team sanity. But the idea of Wolfgang being able to buff followers is weird to me given that Wolfgang's the character people play when they want to make the multiplayer-focused content their bicce without needing followers. 

Leg day feels like Klei finally cracking to all the people who have wanted Wolfgang's speed back sense the rework and I hate it >:(

Dumbell developer... I guess is nice, but the fire bells are to arsonistic and the thermbells are to pointless, so it's really only the ice bells that serve a purpose. 

Heavy hitter is fine. You can do some serious damage with the dumbells, but I personally wouldn't bother. Maybe if this also boosted the range you can throw them, I'd be more amible to them. 

Might... Might...

  Reveal hidden contents

Y'know, one of my big fears going into the update was that Wolfgang's alignment perks would do nothing but make his modifers effect Planar Damage. But sadly, what we got isn't much better. 

5 entire perks, all of them only increasing planar weapon's planar damage by 5, for a total of +25. Why must you make things so difficult Klei? What did Wolfgang do to deserve this? Is Wolfgang's damage really that high, to the point you'll pull entire mechanics out of your couch cushins to nerf him? On the bright side, because it's a flat boost to planar damage, the Brightshade Staff becomes a Weapon of Mass Destruction in Wolfgang's hands. But given what happened with Wigfrid? It remains to be seen if it'll stay that way. 

And while we're at it, I mentioned that my concern was that Wolfgang's alignment perks would only boost planar damage. But frankly, what we actually got wasn't much better. 3 levels each, +10% damage against the other alignment. Just- just why? I mean obviously that's insanely good. More damage on top of a character that already deals a ton of damage. But again, it's just so boring. Wormwood has a personal plant guard and can create life with his alignment perks. Why can't Wolfgang get some nutty abilities? Like being able to drag a meteor out of the sky for big damage, or tear a shadow fissure into the ground to debuff enemies in an AOE around it. Yeah they'd probably be weaker overall but they'd be sick as hell too.

None of that really matters though, because Wolfgang has 6 completely useless "perks". Gym Mastery and Push the Limits 1-5. Klei, I'm sorry, but nobody uses the gym. It was made completely irrelevant when you made dumbells way faster and let Wolfgang build mightiness by doing the things that benefit from mightiness. 

And you know what? I think Push the Limits would be a really good buff to the Gym. It still wouldn't be good; again you build up mightiness just by using mightiness. But it would atleast give the gym a niche. A niche that is absolutely not worth 5 insight. 

But because of this, you're only 1 insight point short for the perks you actually care about. Which is nice, but none of that changes the fact that Wolfgang is a character that needed nothing, got nothing, and was still disappointing. 

Now I do see a pattern here. I'm not gonna say anything but that you're being very partial and negative about this. Almost everything you said can be viewed as a positive thing and even better way. I feel like maybe you should try focusing more on the bad side of things. Like his teammate perks not being that creative.

Like, if you think about it, they fixed almost every bad thing they did on the rework in a very good way. All of these skill trees are cherries on top of the reworks.

[Pcwer]

2 hours ago, Theukon-dos said:

Why can't Wolfgang get some nutty abilities? Like being able to drag a meteor out of the sky for big damage, or tear a shadow fissure into the ground to debuff enemies in an AOE around it. Yeah they'd probably be weaker overall but they'd be sick as hell too.

Honestly I really wish we got something like this. Like yeah your suggestions definitely feel like overkill but overkill kind of fits Wolfgang. The man lifted a train car. He's the pinnacle of strength let him do some insane flashy attacks. I really hope Klei gives other characters affinity perks similar to Wormwood's lunar perks, as the possibilites are endless.

[Golden Daemon]

4 hours ago, Theukon-dos said:

I feel like the entirety of the "farmhand" chain is basically useless, on account of Blooming already being a super fast way of tending crops, along with there being other options if that's not fast enough.

i do agree that farmhand is a bit underwhelming, it would've been better if it either made crops grow slightly faster , or be more likely to turn into giant crops / have more yields.

another issue i have with wormwoods tree is that whenever you go for the left or right side of the tree to unlock the lunar abilities, you end up with a weird amount of remaining points, so if you went for the left side(taking 5 point to unlock the lunar and then take all 3 cultivator perks) and then try to take the right side, you would come short of points to get the lunar guardian perks, and if you went for the right side , you can only take one point of cultivator.
the same applies if you go entirely for the right or left side perks, you will end up with a weird number of remaining perks (1 for left and 2 for right).

adding a new node in the middle of the tree between seed sleuth and butterfly friend and probably another node in lunar guardian part (maybe finally the bright shade interaction we wanted) would fix this.

[Theukon-dos]

6 hours ago, xDpromonick9 said:

A lot of the thing you mentioned in the wormwood category are simply things that would make him too strong/ too weird because of how it is already done. People were asking for brightshade interactions and they gave us, refined and not overpowered. Now I have to choose between a different type of light source in the early game with the bulbous lightbug or more damage with brightshade armor (I know that you can change your character and spend your skill points again for the same world but the idea still stands the same as it would require in-game work to do it so).

How would my ideas make him OP?

6 hours ago, xDpromonick9 said:

On another note, people were asking for wolfgang speed bonus and they did gave us but in a different way, simply putting in back when he's mighty would've been the worst decision. I also feel like you didn't made a good impression by putting the conclusion to your thoughts in the title/beginning of the post. 

I suppose it is a slight improvement that he's only speedy while normal. But I still feel like there are other things they could have done that would have been better. For example @Toros made his own Wolfgang refresh that made him ignore speed penelties from things like piggy backs while in normal mode. That would have been a good perk to put in that slot. 

6 hours ago, xDpromonick9 said:

Now let me see if I can disagree with you and agree at different points in the same post since I liked your post.

So, the number 1 thing I liked about the wormwood tree was the damage buff of course. But that doesn't encourage me to hate on different aspects of the other perks since they don't instantaneously appear attracting (I'm assuming that you haven't played the beta yet).

Played it? No, not properly. But I did spend some time in game looking at what the perks did. 

6 hours ago, xDpromonick9 said:

Actually tending to crops in a larger area and spawning the fruit flies earlier makes for an amazing swapout experience. If I don't want to play wormwood but wannna have an easier time farming in these 20 to 80 days for spices/wurt vegetables etc.. Then I will never even use the damage perk so I better spend them in the other farm areas

I'm one of those folks who considered "Swap characters" to be a bad thing, so you're not exactly proving any points here. 

6 hours ago, xDpromonick9 said:

Now, about the tent to crops range increase perk, I agree 99% with you that it can be a bit underwhelming specially since the ability to craft saplings and berry bushes was really good. So one feature was downed by the other. In YOUR perspective it might seems like it is nothing, but for someone who isn't even playing wormwood in the first case, inspecting your seeds for weeds and not having to walk too much around the crops in a line IS something that helps the player.

Yeah the early identification is pretty good. But there are still ways to speed up crop tending without needing to invest a third of your perk points shellbells or a one-man band being the first that come to mind. 

6 hours ago, xDpromonick9 said:

The mushroom perk is also already enough to make a difference, and a better perk for casual wormwood mains then the farm one, which is perfecly made aside from each other. If wormwood had any buff on eating mushrooms it will ALSO be overpowered and require an even bigger skill tree which makes little to no sense to what they can actually add without ruining his identity gamestyle (wich is the healing from foods), and making him stupidly broken with buffs life warly, having to actually make the game power ceilling even higher. I feel like everything on him was perfect, aside from..;

How does the mushroom thing help casual wormwood players exactly? Again, he can't heal from blue mushrooms, he's already great at managing sanity without green mushrooms. And he can eat red mushrooms for food, but Wormwood's biggest perk is already making obscene amount of food.

6 hours ago, xDpromonick9 said:

However, I haven't tested it out yet, but I bet a good farm could be made to automatically kill pigs for rot (also potentially the pig skin that stays on the ground assuming I can find a way to not be eaten by the next pigs) and poop with the Ipecaca. I am most certaintly the devs knew about the lightbulb-werepig farm and didn't actually made this an accident.

I mean maybe? I don't think it would work well at all though. 

6 hours ago, xDpromonick9 said:

All the perks that should be in his kit are being.. You guessed it! Being added. And again, in a different way that refreshes the game to a whole extend we do not know the end results of it yet. So many possibilities it feels almost endlessly. Think about when they add it to all characters. Same as wolfgang, some might say it is useless and some might say it should be on his kit or else they won't even bother leveling it up since the other perks are better anyway. That is why most of them have been specifically placed to not intertwine with each other, and other been required to keep evolving. Neat idea by Klei.

I mean sure??? that doesn't mean that bee and butterfly friend wouldn't make a ton of sense as just a part of him. 

6 hours ago, xDpromonick9 said:

I find it kinda weird for him to align with the shadows, it would be same as Maxwell aligning with the moon. Like, it doesn't make sense at all.

It would be, yeah. But it would still be fun. Again, this entire alignment thing was advertised as picking a side. Yet Wormwood already had his side picked for him. 

6 hours ago, xDpromonick9 said:

Now I do see a pattern here. I'm not gonna say anything but that you're being very partial and negative about this. Almost everything you said can be viewed as a positive thing and even better way. I feel like maybe you should try focusing more on the bad side of things. Like his teammate perks not being that creative.

I did look at the positives. The positives just suck. As I said, most of the Wolfgang perks are just boring stat boosts. While Wormwood got a ton of neat perks between an excessive amount of filler, and Woodie became a canadian god, the most interesting thing Wolfgang got is his whistle. And as you said, that's not exactly very good. 

6 hours ago, xDpromonick9 said:

Like, if you think about it, they fixed almost every bad thing they did on the rework in a very good way. All of these skill trees are cherries on top of the reworks.

See, they did. Woodie's actually a good character now which is amazing. But that doesn't change the fact that all of those perks could have just been part of Woodie by default. You call the skill tree a "cherry on top", I call it a "massive caveat".

 

[PROfessor13]

9 hours ago, Theukon-dos said:

the Wolfgang skill tree is just so, so boring.

Wolfgang before this skill tree was a boring character. He made boss fights easy, and made work faster. THAT'S IT. I played him for 150(ish) days and got bored. The highlight was killing AG easily and using the mighty gym for the first time. After that it was just, keep my mighty meter up (by chopping, mining, fighting, or using the new dumbbells and gym) and progressing. The worst part was the keeping my meter up part. It was soooooo redundant that I stopped playing him.

 

9 hours ago, Theukon-dos said:

Why can't Wolfgang get some nutty abilities?

He should get something that helps break-up the repeating cycle that is playing Wolfgang, but it also seems to be that you wanted something more than just doing more damage, which is Wolfgang's entire thing!

 

9 hours ago, Theukon-dos said:

Coaching is... weird.

You got an ability that helps fix that fact that Wolfgang is just a x2 DMG character and you didn't like it? Though to be fair, it is less useful than Wifgrid's songs. But that is Wifgrid's thing, so they can't give it to Wolfgang. What it seems like you're looking for is something to help solo Wolfgangs in a co-op game.

 

I think it would be nice if you could break-up Wolfgang's boring playstyle, but that's what the other perks do! Increase maximum mighty meter, great! I don't have to spend every day at base increasing it. Faster movement speed while normal, great! I finally have a reason to be normal in the first place. Auto mighty gym, GREAT! I don't have to pay attention to get mighty at no cost (except hunger) while I talk to my team, look at the map or heck, watch a youtube video. I (like you) expected nothing, but I got something. From a charater that you said in your own words! Is

9 hours ago, Theukon-dos said:

a character that was 90% raw numbers

(Oh and btw, planar damage and defense was a brilliant move. Post end-game bosses/mobs are more powerful and the loot is even better, well that means I'll just go and like easily kill BQ again, oh wait, it only helps against those post end-game mobs? Well now previous bosses are just as hard without needing to make the post end-game gear underwhelming. And even though that would be worthless, the fact that they also come with unique abilities makes up for it. Whoever thought of planar stuff needs a raise!)

[abrocator]

10 hours ago, Theukon-dos said:

I'm sorry, but no amount of changes to planar equipment or things to use planar equipment against will change the fact that the problem is the very existence of planar mechanics.

Yes! It’s pointless.

10 minutes ago, PROfessor13 said:

Oh and btw, planar damage and defense was a brilliant move. Post end-game bosses/mobs are more powerful and the loot is even better, well that means I'll just go and like easily kill BQ again, oh wait, it only helps against those post end-game mobs? Well now previous bosses are just as hard without needing to make the post end-game gear underwhelming. And even though that would be worthless, the fact that they also come with unique abilities makes up for it. Whoever thought of planar stuff needs a raise!

Oh, items that you need to kill X are only effective against X and nothing else (really)?

Imagine if Bee Queen only dropped the Bee Queen Sword that makes killing Bee Queen easier. That’s the logic of planar damage.

[Theukon-dos]

20 minutes ago, PROfessor13 said:

 

(Oh and btw, planar damage and defense was a brilliant move. Post end-game bosses/mobs are more powerful and the loot is even better, well that means I'll just go and like easily kill BQ again, oh wait, it only helps against those post end-game mobs? Well now previous bosses are just as hard without needing to make the post end-game gear underwhelming. And even though that would be worthless, the fact that they also come with unique abilities makes up for it. Whoever thought of planar stuff needs a raise!)

You do realize that "Later and harder to get equipment is stronger than old equipment" is basic game design and progression, right? I mean you seriously just described 70% of the problems with the mechanic and described it as a good thing. 

[PROfessor13]

8 minutes ago, Theukon-dos said:

Later and harder to get equipment is stronger than old equipment" is basic game design and progression

Yes it is, but, the reason why planar stuff is kind of useless, is because you don't need it unless you want it. Planar stuff, right now, is obtained by fighting the only planar mobs in the game. If in the actual game you needed it against a threat that you can't prevent, then it would become useful and a part of progression, while keeping the bosses in the beginning game not just a push-over.

I once played a game called devast.io. I loved this game becuase, though later items got more powerful, you only needed them against other people. In the begining, you could make basic melee weapons and armor that would only protect you against melee damage. Later, you could make guns and only gun protection armor. This made stuff like dying to someone who was just in the beginning possible and a threat. But your later game stuff wouldn't make fighting them a walk in the park, but instead an action packed fight. Usually the later game gear could win, but, if you had enough skill you could kill them no matter the gear. This is equivalent to killing deerclops with just a spear, it is possible with skill, but you do want to get something better.

My times playing deavast.io were full of arenaline because someone who basically just spawned could kill me. And because of this it was so much fun that I played it from discovery until the severs crash for a while. I got the same kind of kick from playing DST, with skill you can do insane things, but you can still die to a simple spider if you're not careful. Because of this, I don't want them to send out gear that just means you can basically hold F to D-Fly just because you got endgame gear.

[PROfessor13]

On 7/7/2023 at 9:50 AM, abrocator said:

Imagine if Bee Queen only dropped the Bee Queen Sword that makes killing Bee Queen easier. That’s the logic of planar damage.

Right now, but I am sure they will add a planar boss into the game and it will be actually useful. But yes currently, it does suck a bit.