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Meter trouble


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What am i doing wrong? I'm trying to measure out exact amount of liquid/gas/solid but no matter what approach i take i end up with rogue packets. In both examples i'm measuring 100kgx10 and in both cases already on third reset i end up with 10kg more then needed. Sometimes it slips even on first run.

In left variant i was trying to prevent it from passing with shutoff after meter with no luck. Seems like Klei should redo those meters so they don't start pumping until green signal in reset is gone. Cuz in my theory i sometimes packet slips trough while reset signal is green and it gets reset resulting in extra packet which is incredibly annoying and defeats the purpose of a shutoff since meter doubles as a shutoff. =/

Meter.png

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I've observed the meter will start sending its intended payload on these events:

  1. Every time the amount is adjusted.
  2. Every time it receives a green signal.

So for #1 it is easy to just adjust once.

For #2 to work properly you'll need to make it so that the green signal is sent as momentarily as possible to just activate the meter. A blip so to speak.

More accurately speaking, what you'd need it is an edge detector right before the meter. Bigger article in the spoiler:

Spoiler

 

 

So here, for example, you'd see an edge detector right before the meter, the push button comes from a mod:

1440692927_meteractivator.png.a079a27d246847cb353a21c9f9b951f9.png

This signal counter is set up to act as an edge detector. The counter's setting is on 1 (from the default 10). Self reset for the counter will occur if any of the following conditions are met:

  • Signal counter is set to standard mode and its output is connected to its reset port.
  • Signal counter is set to advanced mode and the limit is met (1 in this case).

Sending a green signal to the signal counter will generate a "blip" from its output port that will activate the meter exactly once and then stay off, even if the rest of the logic keeps sending a green signal to the counter (where the push button is located at in this picture). The only way to get another green signal is to cycle from red to green.

I'll leave the rest of the logic arrangements up to you.

Hope this helps.

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2 minutes ago, JRup said:

I've observed the meter will start sending its intended payload on these events:

  1. Every time the amount is adjusted.
  2. Every time it receives a green signal.

So for #1 it is easy to just adjust once.

For #2 to work properly you'll need to make it so that the green signal is sent as momentarily as possible to just activate the meter. A blip so to speak.

More accurately speaking, what you'd need it is an edge detector right before the meter. Bigger article in the spoiler:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

So here, for example, you'd see an edge detector right before the meter, the push button comes from a mod:

1440692927_meteractivator.png.a079a27d246847cb353a21c9f9b951f9.png

This signal counter is set up to act as an edge detector. The counter's setting is on 1 (from the default 10). Self reset for the counter will occur if any of the following conditions are met:

  • Signal counter is set to standard mode and its output is connected to its reset port.
  • Signal counter is set to advanced mode and the limit is met (1 in this case).

Sending a green signal to the signal counter will generate a "blip" from its output port that will activate the meter exactly once and then stay off, even if the rest of the logic keeps sending a green signal to the counter (where the push button is located at in this picture). The only way to get another green signal is to cycle from red to green.

I'll leave the rest of the logic arrangements up to you.

Hope this helps.

Yeah. I've already tried edge detector. =( Unfortunately it had no difference, since the reset signal also stops the limit reached signal acting as a sort of edge detector, so adding one was in fact redundant. I think it's the problem of the meter itself. I wish the reset port acted as a reverse on/off port also, green = stop and reset, red = start flow. =/ Seems like it's the main problem.

Found a workaround for payload launcher, i just load the rogue packets back in with a priority, since they don't get counted on load and get rejected by launcher it's a decent way especially since i meter out cargo by storage bins and batches are only 1200 units. But loading liquid when the stream is constant, source is on the bottom of the map and batch is 300x90=27000 is another beast. There is no easy way to deal with it and i have to plumb out the pipes after loading finishes. =/

I just had an idea, instead of using shutoff to turn off and block the loading of the rogue packet, i'll turn it on, but divert the packet with a priority back before the meter. Unnecessary bulk and complexity but it just might work.

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3 minutes ago, Lomion said:

the reset signal also stops the limit reached signal acting as a sort of edge detector, so adding one was in fact redundant

Thanks, I failed to mention that in the screenshot I'd sent the meter's reset signal was unused. In several attempts to use the meter I did find that the edge detector acts best for activating it. Keeping the signal on as in your left build risks continuous operation. (I had been using the meter for some water clocks...)

All is fine here in this build: 10x100kg reached every time, counters are on advanced mode and the count starts on 1 for the 1000kg requirement.

1797128447_MC1.thumb.png.354150deaf8f0d4a65ba98d2fef3a081.png526886065_MCAutomation.thumb.png.312409692be809740eb5518131acdf0c.png

3 edge detectors were used. 1 from the meter, 1 to the meter and one from the memory toggle to the meter to kickstart the process.

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7 minutes ago, JRup said:

Thanks, I failed to mention that in the screenshot I'd sent the meter's reset signal was unused. In several attempts to use the meter I did find that the edge detector acts best for activating it. Keeping the signal on as in your left build risks continuous operation. (I had been using the meter for some water clocks...)

All is fine here in this build: 10x100kg reached every time, counters are on advanced mode and the count starts on 1 for the 1000kg requirement.

1797128447_MC1.thumb.png.354150deaf8f0d4a65ba98d2fef3a081.png526886065_MCAutomation.thumb.png.312409692be809740eb5518131acdf0c.png

3 edge detectors were used. 1 from the meter, 1 to the meter and one from the memory toggle to the meter to kickstart the process.

I'll try to play around a bit more with it. But i fail to understand why i need to have 3 edge detectors for one reset. I'm sure i tried edge detector (and+not variant) on reset port and it had no difference since hooking limit reached to reset is an edge detector of sorts. All i do is add 1s delay and XOR to stop...

And to see such a monstrous automation for something that should be obviously functioning better and metered packets even while reset is green correctly. Otherwise it's more compact to have a packet stacker+elemet sensor+timer and meter valve only use is to manually load rocket toilet. Pity.

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1 minute ago, Lomion said:

And to see such a monstrous automation for something that should be obviously functioning better and metered packets even while reset is green correctly.

I'm sure it can be made smaller. Perhaps the edge detector from the reset can be eliminated. But that's what I get for firing up the game late at night. You wouldn't believe the things I've had to deconstruct after some late night plays.

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1 minute ago, JRup said:

I'm sure it can be made smaller. Perhaps the edge detector from the reset can be eliminated. But that's what I get for firing up the game late at night. You wouldn't believe the things I've had to deconstruct after some late night plays.

I totally understand you. That meter trouble came from me redesigning some nightmare i did for interplanetary launcher. For some reason past me thought that using meter set to 1 unit as a launch trigger was a great idea. Until i tried to launch 1200 steel and dozen cycles after that realized i had to load in 1201 to the bin to actually trigger the launch... And that's why i'm torturing myself with meter again but in more sane way.

 

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If this setup is used with interplanetary launcher, I used Radbolt Sensor to be the reset signal since it will fly through the sensor for a single pulse green. The idea is to use the meter value green full signal. For example, when the meter valve count reach 200kg, fire enough radbolt to launcher. The launcher may receive radbolts more than enough after long run, but that can ensure you fire exact size of payloads every time. I have used this setup to fire resupply petroleum payloads to my outer asteroids. You may take the idea and try a different design.

Another way I read from forum before is disable the power before reset the gas/liquild/solid meter valve. It may require another type of automation but it is simpler than the edge detection since you have more time to deal with the reset signal.

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On 7/31/2022 at 7:16 AM, JRup said:

I'm sure it can be made smaller. Perhaps the edge detector from the reset can be eliminated. But that's what I get for firing up the game late at night. You wouldn't believe the things I've had to deconstruct after some late night plays.

Seems like edge detector does the trick after all. Ran two rounds of 15T water trough two setups for up and down stream, so 60 tons of liquid and not a drop went above the limit. This will make filling up rockets and steam builds so much easier.

Still wish the meter valve would act more logically and did not send packets while reset is triggered.

Ameter.png

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On 8/1/2022 at 4:50 AM, DolphinWing said:

If this setup is used with interplanetary launcher, I used Radbolt Sensor to be the reset signal since it will fly through the sensor for a single pulse green. The idea is to use the meter value green full signal. For example, when the meter valve count reach 200kg, fire enough radbolt to launcher. The launcher may receive radbolts more than enough after long run, but that can ensure you fire exact size of payloads every time. I have used this setup to fire resupply petroleum payloads to my outer asteroids. You may take the idea and try a different design.

Another way I read from forum before is disable the power before reset the gas/liquild/solid meter valve. It may require another type of automation but it is simpler than the edge detection since you have more time to deal with the reset signal.

My approach is that i wanted a salvo cannon launcher, so i wanted to initiate launch only when the radbolt storage is full and it will launch all the payload in one go.

So i came up with that monster which was redesigned like 5 times already and tested only on nearby planets. And the downside is that it can only be fitted to launch only one type gas/solid/liquid but still has launch override button.

I think it will have more flaws with longer distance launches. And i'll see the radbolt sensor option.

Alauncher.png

6 minutes ago, LadenSwallow said:

You could use a power shutoff to cut power to the meter during the reset interval?

Since i use the meter output as a reset trigger, that will add a not gate, the shutoff and possibly a buffer gate. I hope the edge detector will not fail and i don't have to go the path to make a simple counter even more bulky.

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