My reaction to each major change thus far

[ShadowDuelist]

1 minute ago, maxwell_winters said:

What is the issue with locking powerful items behind the high price? The game has a lot of crappy items with high price (Houndius Shootius requires 2 boss drops, is it even worth it?). Why should only Wicker get powerful items for cheap? In that way, new players won't manipulate the forces they don't fully understand and the experienced ones could rush the irri gem early on anyway. However, if the irri gem indeed becomes the crafting ingredient, 2 gems in archives should become unpickable. As I said, their purpose is just to show what item you need. 

The book is not really that powerful to need an iridiscent gem, if it costs that I'd probably never make it, its also pointless, once you get an iridiscent gem you can start making the lunar storm quest. At most it could cost moon glass, if your point is to make it less available in the first days, but definitely not a gem. it will make an extremely costly item that comes way too late in the game for it to be useful.

Wickerbottom ALWAYS had powerful and cheap magic that changes the world around her, people just never bothered to play as her cause they didn't understand how to use the books. Her difficulty never lied in getting the materials for the books, but instead learning how to make the most of them. Up until a month ago, even with everyone still hyped about Wanda or WX, I was always riding a fully tamed beefalo on day 23, using electric darts as main weapon, getting krampii sacks for everyone before day 100, mass creating dragonpie in a day's work, and protecting other players from hound waves or monkeys with tentacles+STS combos. Non reworked Wicker was always a super strong being in the constant, she just got new toys.

The changes that I think are reasonable for this book, instead of making it outrageously expensive, are:

A) that it does not change the moon cycle, just makes an artificial full moon for that night and then the cycle continues as it was.

or 

B) That the full moon covers a large area around where the book was read (about the size the moonstorm normally has), and everything in that area will behave as having a full moon, with enlightment instead of sanity, pigs turning to werepigs, moon event, etc, but it will only be limited to that area of the map and spare the rest of the world of the full moon.

[oregu]

Just now, ShadowDuelist said:

The book is not really that powerful to need an iridiscent gem, if it costs that I'd probably never make it, its also pointless, once you get an iridiscent gem you can start making the lunar storm quest. At most it could cost moon glass, if your point is to make it less available in the first days, but definitely not a gem. it will make an extremely costly item that comes way too late in the game for it to be useful.

Wickerbottom ALWAYS had powerful and cheap magic that changes the world around her, people just never bothered to play as her cause they didn't understand how to use the books. Her difficulty never lied in getting the materials for the books, but instead learning how to make the most of them. Up until a month ago, even with everyone still hyped about Wanda or WX, I was always riding a fully tamed beefalo on day 23, using electric darts as main weapon, getting krampii sacks for everyone before day 100, mass creating dragonpie in a day's work, and protecting other players from hound waves or monkeys with tentacles+STS combos. Non reworked Wicker was always a super strong being in the constant, she just got new toys.

The changes that I think are reasonable for this book, instead of making it outrageously expensive, are:

A) that it does not change the moon cycle, just makes an artificial full moon for that night and then the cycle continues as it was.

or 

B) That the full moon covers a large area around where the book was read (about the size the moonstorm normally has), and everything in that area will behave as having a full moon, with enlightment instead of sanity, pigs turning to werepigs, moon event, etc, but it will only be limited to that area of the map and spare the rest of the world of the full moon.

Full moon nights are much superior to moonstorm nights... do you know how annoying those are? Also... idk how that would make much sense, really because harnessing the moon's power is clearly possible. (I opted for a recipe that utilizes infused moon shards cause thats one of the thing Wagstaff needed and means you have to kill CC to actually take advantage of the book)

[ShadowDuelist]

1 minute ago, oregu said:

do you know how annoying those are?

Yeah but I don't mean a moonstorm, just a "moonstorm's area" to explain the range, not for getting the birds, wagstaff, the slow down, the lightning, etc. The Enlightment would be the only "moonstorm" thing that would remain, which synergizes pretty well with Wickerbottom. if it lasts for the night only, it would be entirely fair. And if you don't like the effects or are harmful in any way to you, you can move out of the area.

2 minutes ago, oregu said:

Full moon nights are much superior to moonstorm nights

Precisely, and it would sort of be a nerf to the book, while also keeping its utility without annoying Woodies or everyone else's knowledge on moon cycles.

[Creatorofswamps]

.

11 minutes ago, Creatorofswamps said:

This is just an example of how to properly prohibit the use in the first days, everything is much simpler and more logical: moon lawn, cave moon lawn, moon shard and moonstone. And we do it on the lunar ideal is just an example of how to properly prohibit the use in the first days, everything is much simpler and more logical: moon lawn, cave moon lawn, moon shard and moonstone. And we do it on the lunar ideal

And that's it, the "golden mean" has been found

[oregu]

Just now, ShadowDuelist said:

Yeah but I don't mean a moonstorm, just a "moonstorm's area" to explain the range, not for getting the birds, wagstaff, the slow down, the lightning, etc. The Enlightment would be the only "moonstorm" thing that would remain, which synergizes pretty well with Wickerbottom. if it lasts for the night only, it would be entirely fair. And if you don't like the effects or are harmful in any way to you, you can move out of the area.

Precisely, and it would sort of be a nerf to the book, while also keeping its utility without annoying Woodies or everyone else's knowledge on moon cycles.

Oh, I thought you were making a point about how starting the moonstorm quest would be a better option of using the gem than a book, which is both true and isn't, it still takes a lot more time but lasts indefinitely (if you want) but if the wicker leaves you can just decon the book and start the quest, it's not a big choice tbh.

[Parusoid]

7 minutes ago, Creatorofswamps said:

.

And that's it, the "golden mean" has been found

how is it mean? you can get those materials day one

[maxwell_winters]

17 minutes ago, ShadowDuelist said:

<>

You do all this and still find the irri gem expensive? I digress. Anyway, I agree the book needs nerf to the functionality and then we can talk about lesser price. . 

I don't really want to bring the lore to the gameplay discussion but this book rubs me the wrong way. One of the loading screen quotes even says "Don't mistake that thing in the night sky for the moon". The "moon" is an ancient deity and a strong force in DST. Manipulating it that easily without consequences doesn't feel right.

[oregu]

Just now, maxwell_winters said:

You do all this and still find the irri gem expensive? I digress. Anyway, I agree the book needs nerf to the functionality and then we can talk about lesser price. . 

I don't really want to bring the lore to the gameplay discussion but this book rubs me the wrong way. One of the loading screen quotes even says "Don't mistake that thing in the night sky for the moon". The "moon" is an ancient deity and a strong force in DST. Manipulating it that easily without consequences doesn't feel right.

Did I say the moon? Sorry... THEM-oon

[Creatorofswamps]

3 minutes ago, Parusoid said:

how is it mean? you can get those materials day one

In general, this is not a fact, it all depends on the generation of the world (like everything in this game) + the time spent on the creation of the altar. And yes, in any case it's better than stupidly 2 moonstones

If this is too easy, then add a lens with a green stone to the craft, it's not mindlessly expensive and not cheap

[Parusoid]

2 minutes ago, Creatorofswamps said:

the time spent on the creation of the altar

why would i need to craft altar for any of the items listed? eveyrthing is available withou it

[Creatorofswamps]

3 minutes ago, Parusoid said:

why would i need to craft altar for any of the items listed? eveyrthing is available withou it

Either I don't speak English well, or you haven't read the message to the end. It is necessary to transfer the craft of the gremoire to the altar.

A lens with an emerald is a rather weighty investment?

[Parusoid]

1 minute ago, Creatorofswamps said:

Either I don't speak English well, or you haven't read the message to the end. It is necessary to transfer the craft of the gremoire to the altar.

A lens with an emerald is a rather weighty investment?

so now moon lense is required for what exactly?

[Creatorofswamps]

2 minutes ago, Parusoid said:

so now moon lense is required for what exactly?

In order to make crafting and not as expensive as a shimmering stone and not as cheap as 2 pieces of moonstone

[Parusoid]

5 minutes ago, Creatorofswamps said:

In order to make crafting and not as expensive as a shimmering stone and not as cheap as 2 pieces of moonstone

so now shimmering stone? what is this even ?

it was said moon turf, cave moon turf, moon shard and moon rock

i dont know where did you take the lense from

[Creatorofswamps]

9 minutes ago, Parusoid said:

so now shimmering stone? what is this even ?

it was said moon turf, cave moon turf, moon shard and moon rock

i dont know where did you take the lense from

From his forewarning message

27 minutes ago, Creatorofswamps said:

30 minutes ago, Parusoid said:

how is it mean? you can get those materials day one

In general, this is not a fact, it all depends on the generation of the world (like everything in this game) + the time spent on the creation of the altar. And yes, in any case it's better than stupidly 2 moonstones

If this is too easy, then add a lens with a green stone to the craft, it's not mindlessly expensive and not cheap

shimmering stone:

9 minutes ago, Parusoid said:

i dont know where did you take the lense from

I'm tired of translating everything in Google translator "я тебе назвал все те предметы участвующие в крафте , линза предложена бо ты скащал что это слишком "лехкий крафт"

[Parusoid]

yall just jellous scared and intimidated by strong confident mature learned lady that is wickerbottom, you only want to bring her down

[oregu]

So, a pretty small update to the post but

Bookshelf: Integrates in the base really well as it can replace the alchemy engine (and Wicker can use the doodad for her Everything book).

Synergys: Wormwood + Wicker for swift crop farming (of course). Wicker + Warly for great hunger generation (wicker can quickly grow onions in conjuction with Warly's other crops and either can create moqueca or bone stews with her fish farm. For bone stews you wait for the fish to spoil, drop in a pile on the ground and weather pain it for bones. Works better with spoiled big fish, rather than fish morsels. But then again, pig farms are a lot easier than that, but lest be considered.)

Lunar Grimoire: Still obtainable really early on (maybe 4 days later than before). The book probably wont shine until you're playing with other players. Incentivizes rushing afw, though.

Rain Rituals: Became aware that this book is even more powerful than I thought, even making it rain in summer alone made it overtly powerful. Turning off storms nullifies spring, lets you make it snow (I think it water crops. Correct me if I'm wrong). Disable frog rain.

Her Krampus farm no longer requires flingomatics or precise anenemy placement to have maximum efficiency since using sleep books have no limit. Overall buff to the Krampus farm. Anenemys might have a priority in other areas now.

[Arcwell]

2 hours ago, oregu said:

Lunar Grimoire: Still obtainable really early on (maybe 4 days later than before). The book probably wont shine until you're playing with other players. Incentivizes rushing afw, though.

Playing with multiple players is precisely what makes the limit of 2 iridescent gems in the archives problematic, funny enough. Also, where are you getting 4 days from? Previously all you had to do was make a bookshelf and mine a rock in the mosaic (which is always adjacent to spawn if I'm not mistaken), now you have to make a bookshelf, find and sail to the lunar island, and find the archives (assuming the gems are still there).

2 hours ago, oregu said:

Rain Rituals: Became aware that this book is even more powerful than I thought

Don't you dare.

[oregu]

On 7/27/2022 at 12:13 AM, Arcwell said:

Also, where are you getting 4 days from? now you have to make a bookshelf, find and sail to the lunar island, and find the archives (assuming the gems are still there).

Well, in good circumstances you can do it in four days. You only have to find Pearl's island because it has lunar trees. And there's a possibility you could also find the cave entrance thats next to the blue mushroom biome early (otherwise i suggest edging the muddy biome in caves). Those are the main things on how soon you can rush the book. Mush gnomes are a potential variable, too. True, it's still much rng dependent though. I could see a couple days margin difference depending on your luck.