Hex tiles, rotating asteroids as a new DLC

[tscharf]

What if we could explore entire asteroids instead of a slice of them?

This means:

- Hex tiles

- Round(ish) asteroids (gravity would be split in 6 different sections).

- The entire map could rotate (naturally or handled by the player)

- You can make a dupe to do a full-circle around the asteroid

- If you cover all the surface solar will work all the time (just one section at a time without sunlight).

- Just see the tiny asteroid clock from game window, think that your entire map could be that way.

[Sasza22]

If you want to change square tiles into hex tiles then that would be kinda impossible in the current game. At least without rebuilding it from the ground up.

But if you wnat 6 maps in one (each one facing one hex in space) connected by the edge of each map creating a complete semi round world that would be kinda cool. Pathing might be wonky but if we keep each slice small enough the game should handle that.

[tscharf]

5 hours ago, Sasza22 said:

If you want to change square tiles into hex tiles then that would be kinda impossible in the current game. At least without rebuilding it from the ground up.

yeah that definitely has to be a new DLC, most of the graphics have to be adjusted to fit into a honeycomb grid, but if you consider it there are ways to minimize the impact, for example if the hex tile needs to have the parallel sides horizontal or vertical, it will affect differently buildings like floor / wall tiles and doors.

About the game mechanics, I bet it would affect the fluid dynamics (how Klei implements it), and heat exchange due to the tile format, but I think the hex format helps avoiding issues, not to count the different sections of gravity in the map.

I think you can still have more or less square lines in rooms (the tiles today do that already, they change their appearance depending on what is around them - if you pay close attention to the natural tiles, they have rounded graphics, and some artificial tiles change depending on what is around).

The nicest thing of having a hex grid/tile is that it allows very easy representation of a round asteroid, just define 6 sections (one for each hex side, or each hex corner) so you will have 6 different directions of gravity in the map, each part of the map dupes will stand in different orientation. (EDITED: You can have an achievement of a dupe doing a full loop at the surface.) Sunlight would rotate around it, it completely changes the ratio of how surface area vs volume of the map, among other things.

From what we saw in Kley games, they have good taste to make good graphics, I think hex grid might be a good inspiration for them to surprise us. There are some machines today that have slight overlap outside it´s tiles, it is just a matter of how to tweak it.

an example of gravity around the center tile (sorry if the honeycomb is not perfect)

 

For us (players), that would be an entirely alternate way of playing. Existing designs will have to be adapted (some more than others), but there could be new designs that without hex grid are not really possible today - you can have a double brige crossing around a pipe.

Have you imagined how creative people could get with base designs?

Also, hex has potential to elliminate a number of diagnonal exploits that we see today, like lack of heat exchange and no fluid exchange through diagonals:

[gabberworld]

i not sure what you talk, but gravity is nothing todo with tiles, they are totally work differently.

Unity gravity is searching the collider not the tiles

there is also thing. square collider is the best choice in most cases . why ? because off performance, it only needs search 4 location for collide

that is started use at back in old games and still used even 3d games

there is also Edge Collider, that may be even better but i not tested yet

[gabberworld]

i hope that they add one day that dupes can play also football. or basketball. yes it is doable because there is also Circle collider

[gabberworld]

that green line is the Edge Collider, the ball uses the Circle collider

they are both the 2d like game is

there no tiles self at all, so what is tiles then? they are just punch off mixed together images.

[Yobbo]

6 hours ago, tscharf said:

an example of gravity around the center tile (sorry if the honeycomb is not perfect)

The problem with your hex gravity representation above is that the arrows are not actually pointing to another hex. They are pointing to an edge between hexes. So where does a falling object inside those tiles go?

It is actually the benefit of removing ambiguity of diagonal motion across corners that in stead causes this situation where there is sometimes no clear line of motion. In square grids with diagonal motion, all rational directions have one clear "touching" location to move to. In a hexagonal grid this is not so.

I do like hex tiles, but they are not as easy to use for simulations as one might expect.

[gabberworld]

13 minutes ago, Yobbo said:

The problem with your hex gravity representation above is that the arrows are not actually pointing to another hex. They are pointing to an edge between hexes. So where does a falling object inside those tiles go?

It is actually the benefit of removing ambiguity of diagonal motion across corners that in stead causes this situation where there is sometimes no clear line of motion. In square grids with diagonal motion, all rational directions have one clear "touching" location to move to. In a hexagonal grid this is not so.

I do like hex tiles, but they are not as easy to use for simulations as one might expect.

but thing is that you not need use tilemap for everything at all

ground yes, as that is basic bottom where dupes dig and so on. but all other stuff is not need no hex or box at all.

and if you not use tilemap, then that is total freedom, you rotate image what ever direction you want

[Yobbo]

1 minute ago, gabberworld said:

but thing is that you not need use tilemap for everything at all

I don't disagree at all? As you say it's far simpler not to use any grid for motion. In that case it doesn't matter where you put your gravitational focus.

[gabberworld]

3 hours ago, Yobbo said:

I don't disagree at all? As you say it's far simpler not to use any grid for motion. In that case it doesn't matter where you put your gravitational focus.

grid motion is usefull for mix together images like ground but it is possible make that also without tile-map.

but there is also thing you not need mix the objects like Steam turbine because they are all-ready made as one image.

i just not see what extra would hex give to the players.

also about that hex that they use, it can be made just one big image and other is just smooth movement like that ball what i used in video

 

[gabberworld]

game can use also both at same time hex and the box but i not know if they use this for main map

also im not sure how you build the steam turbine to the hex grid as it needs flat surface

[Sasza22]

I think it could be doable to make a 6 sided map without changing the tiles to hexes. What we would need to do is create 6 separate maps connected via the edges, each would have a different time of the day so each would have a different amount of sunlight. The core would still be neutronium.

Now by moving to one side you would cycle between maps making it an illusion of a circular world. That would be much esier to do than changing squares to hexes with all the math that would need to be done with it.

[tscharf]

17 hours ago, Yobbo said:

The problem with your hex gravity representation above is that the arrows are not actually pointing to another hex. They are pointing to an edge between hexes. So where does a falling object inside those tiles go?

Good point! Maybe the best representation should shift the gravity lines so they can be perpendicular to the sides of the hex of the central tile, to avoid this issue. The picture was just made an example but of course this need a proper analysis.

Still, hex grid seems feasible to me.

7 hours ago, Sasza22 said:

I think it could be doable to make a 6 sided map without changing the tiles to hexes. What we would need to do is create 6 separate maps connected via the edges, each would have a different time of the day so each would have a different amount of sunlight. The core would still be neutronium.

yes inner core from neutronium to avoid craziness to implement the core mechanics. About the 6 maps, I still don´t see a good way to have square tiles joining with angle between the maps, unless the map is actually cylindrical (like if the left and right borders of the map join on each other, like doing a cylinder from a paper sheet. you keep scrolling to the right until eventually you will see the left part of the map - that would be something as well, much less impact but also more limited - it won´t really be different, except that the irregular walls of neutronium in the sides of the map don´t really need to exist. Such Cylindrical maps would look nice as well. It won´t be an asteroid rotating, but could be close enough

The point of the hex grid was really to bring something truly new to the game and not just expanding the map. There are 2 kinds of DLC - the kind that adds more of the same stuff, and other that re-invents the game.

 

14 hours ago, gabberworld said:

also im not sure how you build the steam turbine to the hex grid as it needs flat surface

yep, buildings will need to be adapted in some way