Idea for WX-78 Rework

[LondoniKecske]

Hello everyone.

Before I start, you all need to know, I’m not very good at English, so there may be grammatical or vocabulary errors. I don’t main WX-78 but I think I have a great idea for the character development. I will use „/” sign which will mean „or”.

So what is unique about WX-78:

• overload from lightning (B/sometimes D/can be 0),
• speed boost, light aura and frost resistance due to overload (B),
• get health and lose sanity from lightning (0),
• commonly gets struck (B/can be sometimes D),
• if he gets wet, he loses health (little D),
• also when he gets wetness damage, he gets a little light (B, when it’s night it can be useful),
• he can eat stale and spoiled food without any negative effects (B),
• he can upgrade himself with gear and gets all his stats goes up when he eats gear (B),
• when he dies while he was upgraded, he gets some gears back (B, because atleast you get back some gears)

B -> benefit, D -> drawback, 0 -> balanced

Problem: These abilities are too beneficial. (Atleast I think that way)

So here are my ideas to make it little bit more balanced:

1.     Overload rework: (charge stat)

1. Charge stat will show how is your charge status.
2. The stat minium will be 0% while maximium will be 200%.
3. Character can be start with 0%/25%.
4. Above 100% he becomes overload.
5. At 200% WX-78 will explode and will lose all of his charge.
6. To get charge yourself will remain as it was. But from now on, you will get charge when you eat Volt Goat Chaud-Froid, when you eat Electrical Doodad and when you get electrical damage.
7. But like before, the lightning will give the most of it. But it won’t give enough for overload.
8. When you get overload status, all of the charge givers will give less charge.
9. Now there will be 5 phases for the character:
   1. phase: drained,
   2. phase: normal,
   3. phase: overload,
   4. phase: over-overload,
   5. phase: meltdown

2.    Phases:

1. 0%/0%-15% charge:
   1. slow movement-, attack- and interaction speed,
   2. fast freezing,
   3. sometimes weak attack
2. 1%/16%-100% charge:
   1. normal mode,
   2. slow charge loss,
   3. easy, fast charging
3. 101%-169% charge:
   1. movement-, attack- and interaction speed increase,
   2. light aura,
   3. frost resistance,
   4. sometimes critical attack,
   5. faster charge loss when you attack/interact,
   6. slower, harder charging
4. 170%-199% charge:
   1. bigger light aura,
   2. overheat,
   3. common critical electrical attack with shock effect,
   4. way faster charge loss when you attack/interact,
   5. same charging like 3. phase
5. 200% charge:
   1. one turf radius electrical explosion which is AOE,
   2. damage is same as the health lose,
   3. can do shock effect too,
   4. charge will be 0% after the explosion,
   5. character will stop everything for 2/3 seconds,
   6. he will lose half of his health

Interaction: mining, hammering and wood chopping

3.    New mechanics:

1. Now WX-78 will be function like lightning rod. But if he is near to lightning rod, lightning rod’ll get stike by lightning.
2. Shock effect:
   1. Lightning and high electrical attack can do this.
   2. This effect will give post electrical damage for few seconds which will stop every creature for half second.
   3. If the creature is wet, then the post electrical damage will increase and lasts longer. But if player gets wet the shock effect will stay until the player dries out, but the shock damage will dries out the player very fast.
   4. WX-78 can do shock effect while other characters can do this rarely with electrical damage to wet creatures.
   5. When this effect happening it makes a little light.
   6. This effect can spread into other nearby creature but damage will be weaker. If someone gets this effect they can easily spread to other enemies but they get less damage and they can also spread it but damage becoming weaker and weaker. At the end, the effect can only stun enemies because the damage is close to 0.
   7. Furthermore, this can spread into flammable objects/structures/environment which at first, will start to smoke then, burn.

4.    Wetness:

1. From now on, wetness damage will be related to charge status. The more charge you have, the more wetness damage you get.
2. When WX-78 gets hurt by electrical damage, which he turns this damage into normal damage and makes himself charge with it. But if you wet and you want to charge yourself you still get charge but the damage will be wetness damage and shock damage, which will keep you stop doing anything for half/more seconds.
3. From this moment, regardless wetness he will drop his items randomly. In 3. and 4. phase if you are wet, you’ll shock yourself sometimes, which will stop you for half second and will deal extra damage.
4. Wetness damage will still give a little light.

5.    Charge informations:

1. The character naturally lose charge every day in all phases but between phases have a differnce: (Numbers only illustration)
   1.  1., 2. phase:
      • daily 4,8% loss since every 5 seconds WX-78 loses 0,05
   2.  3. phase:

• daily 4,8% loss if you are not fighting/interact
• 2.    but if you do so when you interact every 4 seconds WX-78 loses 0,065%, while when you fighting every 5 seconds he loses 0,075% but if he does crit he loses 0,1%

1.  4. phase:

• daily 4,8% loss if you are not fighting/interact
• but if you do so when you interact every 3 seconds WX-78 loses 0,065%, while when you fighting every 4 seconds he loses 0,075% but if he does crit he loses 0,125%

1. The charge loss can be slowed down by using rewriter (this will delay daily 4,8% loss by 1 day, it last for 5 days), Volt Goat Chaud-Froid (this will delay daily 4,8% loss by 0,1 day, it last for half or less day) and gear (this will delay daily 4,8% loss by 0,15 day, it last for 2 minutes). This ******ers can be stacked but just only 1 method. This will be if you use rewriter+Volt Goat Chaud-Froid+gear (this will delay daily 4,8% loss by 1,53 day,it last for 1,5 days) and this can’t be stack over more. If you use the food/gear you have 15/20 seconds to stacked them if you can’t stacked them you need to wait until the ******er effect go away to try stacked them again. If you want to stacked the rewriter you need to use this at the end so you need to start with the food and gear after them you need to use the rewriter to get all of them stacked. Or you start with the rewriter and finished it you can get the other two stacked. If you eat gear which give slow charge loss for 2 minutes and you wait 1 minute to eat other gear you won’t get the timer to start over, so you need to wait another 1 minute and then eat gear to get again 2 minutes. Another ******ers combonations:
   1. food+gear (this will delay daily 4,8% loss by 0,125 day,it last for 3 minutes)
   2. rewriter+gear (this will delay daily 4,8% loss by 1,2 day, it last for 2,5 days)
   3. rewriter+food (this will delay daily 4,8% loss by 1,3 day, it last for 2 days) 
2. Charging is related to phases:
   1. 1., 2. phase:
      1. lightning: 20%,
      2. electrical damage: 5-15% (depends on magnitude of the damage)
      3. Electrical Doodad: 5%,
      4. Volt Goat Chaud-Froid: 12%,
      5. gear: -20%,
      6. shock effect: 2-8% (depends on wetness and magnitude of the damage)
   2. 3., 4. phase:
      1. lightning: 10%,
      2. electrical damage: 2,5-7,5% (depends on magnitude of the damage)
      3. Electrical Doodad: 2%,
      4. Volt Goat Chaud-Froid: 6%,
      5. gear: -20%,
      6. shock effect: 1-4% (depends on wetness and magnitude of the damage)
3. When you charging you’ll get health and lose sanity, which depends on charging size like lightning !20%! (charging size). The authoritative will be the lightning which give 20% charge and this 20% will give the same health, lose same sanity like before. So 20% will give 100 hp and lose 33 sanity so if we calculate 1% will give 5 hp and lose 1,65 sanity. If you lose charge you won’t lose health neither sanity just if you eat gear your hp, sanity, hunger will go up but charge will go down. If you have wetness+shock damage you will lose health and sanity.  

6.    Food:

1. The gear still gives the same stats and the upgrades. But it will consume 20% charge and gives minor slowness into the charge loss.
2. Meals will no longer give heat resistence. So if some sort of food you eat give heat or consume heat, WX-78 won’t get this effect.
3. You won’t get health from dishes or any edible food. You only get health from sleeping, eating gear, charging and survival bandages (aka. survival tabs healing)

7.    Overuse:

1. If you use the overload non-stop for 20 days, you will get a debuff which is called overuse. This debuff will makes you lose some of yours upgrades and slowly you start losing all overload buffs from day to day. At the end you lose many buffs but the limit of losing it will be 2nd phase. This debuff only goes away if use the rewriter.
2. When you get this debuff or shall I say punishment you will hear computer shutdown sound and you will see some kind of electrical sparkles.
3. This is punishment for using overload all the time. So if you want to avoid this, you should take breaks from overloads which means you need to be in 2nd or 1st phase sometimes.
4. Rewriter can be crafted in the science tab and for making it you need some gears, few electrical doodad and 3 wires/6 marbles. Informations about this item:
   1. When you use it will switch your charge stat into progress stat.
   2. All your upgrades will be covered by black bar. It means if you had 280 health by upgrades it will block 180 health with black bar while you use the rewriter.
   3. This progress stat will show the time you need to restart your system. Which will reload your blocked upgrades and you get back the charge stat. When you get back the charge stat you will have 0% in it.
   4. When you finish you get charge ******er.
   5. If you want to speed up the progress you need to sleep.
   6. The stat starts with 0% and it will finish when you get 200%.
   7. Every 3 seconds WX-78 gets 0,5% when you are sleeping or standing.
   8. When you are doing other thing you will slowly lose progress. Every 5 seconds WX-78 loses 0,3%. But when you are fighting you will lose 0,45%.
   9. While you using the rewrite you will function as in 2nd phase but you won’t get charged, charge buffs.

8.    Here are my ideas. Here is the reasoning why I chose them:

1. Now overload have disadvantages, like: overuse, the more charge you have more damage you get from raining, overheat, explosion, faster charge loss, it would be harder to achieve, WX-78 becomes lightning rod and gets lightning non-stop if you are not near to another ligthning rod. But I did give some new advatages, like: explosion, critical damage, attack/interaction speed increase, better survival in winter with overheat and shock damage.
2. Phase system with charge stat, so now there are drawbacks when you don’t have charge. There is bigger phases than overload which can be great or extreme. Gear have a little downside which is the charge loss. Electrical Doodad can be eaten so now with this you can charge, get health and lose sanity. In phases you have different charging and charge loss. More opportunities for charging. Now there is a maximium limit for charge and when you get maximium you lose all the charge, so now we need to look after it. You can slow the charge lossing by using gear, one dish and rewriter. There is a punishment for using to much overload.
3. Now edible foods have snag so they won’t give health and heat resistance.
4. There is the new mechanic which is shoch effect that can do extra damage and stun.
5. I made stonger the wettness negative effects: more damage, in overload you shoch yourself, WX-78 loses more his equipment if he wets.

Thanks you for reading my post.

I hope I didn’t make grammatical or vocabulary errors but if I have please, tell me. What do you guys think about my ideas? The numbers are just for the sake of illustration, for some places maybe they won’t fit. Do you guys think this can be a great rework to balance WX-78?

[Cr4zyFl4mes]

This open letter format/length, while very nicely formatted (I respect that), seems like an overkill. While yes, thinking about something in detail is good. But... If i were a developer, time spent on reading posts like this doesn't seem very productive. Btw, don't let me discourage you. Maybe Klei reads these longer posts and even likes this format, i just wanted to offer my 2 cents. If you should take anything from my response it's this: try to make a quick summary of what your idea is about. And only then go into detail.

[LondoniKecske]

Yeah, I know... But I felt I want to give well-detailed idea. Now I see I could make it a smaller version. I appreciate your constructive criticism. When I will write an another one, then I will try make it better with summary for myself before go into detail. Maybe I give a better opening with contents which will tell what I will explain with more context later in it. I still learning how to make great post and how to make a little bit better format. I think if I used spoilers with titles, which say what in it, it would be better. 

[Cr4zyFl4mes]

Alright, i have abit more detailed advice for you.

On 3/9/2021 at 5:12 PM, LondoniKecske said:

Hello everyone.

Etiquette is good. Don't make it a title though. Rather write what's your post about in the title.

On 3/9/2021 at 5:12 PM, LondoniKecske said:

Before I start, you all need to know, I’m not very good at English, so there may be grammatical or vocabulary errors. I don’t main WX-78 but I think I have a great idea for the character development. I will use „/” sign which will mean „or”.

Put unimportant disclaimers at the end. (Plus your english is OK, don't make this disclaimer at all )

On 3/9/2021 at 5:12 PM, LondoniKecske said:

So what is unique about WX-78:

• overload from lightning (B/sometimes D/can be 0),
• speed boost, light aura and frost resistance due to overload (B),
• get health and lose sanity from lightning (0),
• commonly gets struck (B/can be sometimes D),
• if he gets wet, he loses health (little D),
• also when he gets wetness damage, he gets a little light (B, when it’s night it can be useful),
• he can eat stale and spoiled food without any negative effects (B),
• he can upgrade himself with gear and gets all his stats goes up when he eats gear (B),
• when he dies while he was upgraded, he gets some gears back (B, because atleast you get back some gears)

B -> benefit, D -> drawback, 0 -> balanced

We kinda all know what are WX's strengths. And put the legend what's what at the start - so your readers don't have to spent time wondering what the hell the B,D,0 stands for.

On 3/9/2021 at 5:12 PM, LondoniKecske said:

Problem: These abilities are too beneficial. (Atleast I think that way)

You should've started with that. Put your opinion in the title of the post. "Idea for WX-78 rework" is kinda mysterious. Sometimes it can be good, but if you wrote "Make WX-78's overcharge more balanced" it would probably get bigger audience.

On 3/9/2021 at 5:12 PM, LondoniKecske said:

So here are my ideas to make it little bit more balanced:

1.     Overload rework: (charge stat)

1. Charge stat will show how is your charge status.
2. The stat minium will be 0% while maximium will be 200%.
3. Character can be start with 0%/25%.
4. Above 100% he becomes overload.
5. At 200% WX-78 will explode and will lose all of his charge.
6. To get charge yourself will remain as it was. But from now on, you will get charge when you eat Volt Goat Chaud-Froid, when you eat Electrical Doodad and when you get electrical damage.
7. But like before, the lightning will give the most of it. But it won’t give enough for overload.
8. When you get overload status, all of the charge givers will give less charge.
9. Now there will be 5 phases for the character:

 

This is where it gets a bit overthought on your part. If you continued your post with:

"Hello guys, so this is my idea:"

"Make a new stat for WX called charge - (imagine something like Woodie's log meter)"

"The stat would be filled by eating doodads, gears, electrical food and being struck by lightnings"
" and it would deplete with time"

"And it would have 5 phases:

On 3/9/2021 at 5:12 PM, LondoniKecske said:

1. 1. phase: drained,
   2. phase: normal,
   3. phase: overload,
   4. phase: over-overload,
   5. phase: meltdown

"Phase 1: 0% - 15% he would be slower, weaker, more susceptible to freezing etc.."

"Phase 2: 15% - 100% would be normal"

"Phase 3: 100% - 150% would be a bit weaker version of current overcharge"

"Phase 4: 150% - 199% would be current overcharge"

"Phase 5: 200% would be too much and undesirable for WX-78. It could even reset the charge stat back to 0% with an explosion"

"So what do you guys think?"

And that's enough, that's where you could end or if you really wanted ad some

Additional thoughts:

• if WX-78 is overcharged he could get electrical damage modifier to his hits
• he could get some new interactions for working (chopping, mining etc..) like quicker chiopping & mining if he is overcharged
• he would get more wetness damage the more charged he is
• he would get the same stats from food and still be able to eat stale food, but he wouldn't get sanity from food. (i changed this one a bit, cause the health penalty is already in game for wormwood)
• he would get sanity from eating electrical doodads, gears (the'd still work the same) and electric food

That's it, you should completely scratch the numbers in this post. Your ideas are pretty much lost in the sea of the numbers. They don't help imagining it, they do the opposite.

btw, as a reply to your ideas, i pretty much like it. The thing i would disagree with is making the 5th phase reset the meter. I would make the 5th stage at 170% - 200% of charge and make it overheat WX or something.

Plus as i already wrote in the above reply: replace the "no health from food" with "no sanity from food". It would even make more sense, with him being a robot, that food doesn't satisfy him. And if it is too harsh, give him 2x the sanity for sleeping.

[LondoniKecske]

First of all, thank you for giving a detailed advice.

On 3/9/2021 at 5:12 PM, LondoniKecske said:

Hello everyone.

I did this because I wanted to somehow start my post. I know shouldn't be a title but I felt I start in this way.

23 hours ago, Cr4zyFl4mes said:

Put unimportant disclaimers at the end. (Plus your english is OK, don't make this disclaimer at all )

All right, I just felt I indicate in the begining. Also thank you, I only did because English isn't my mother tongue.

23 hours ago, Cr4zyFl4mes said:

We kinda all know what are WX's strengths. And put the legend what's what at the start

I know I just did this to start the post. Yeah I messed up the legend.

On 3/9/2021 at 5:12 PM, LondoniKecske said:

Problem: These abilities are too beneficial. (Atleast I think that way)

Well next time I start with this then.

23 hours ago, Cr4zyFl4mes said:

"Idea for WX-78 rework" is kinda mysterious. Sometimes it can be good, but if you wrote "Make WX-78's overcharge more balanced" it would probably get bigger audience.

I like how you titled my post. Well I didn't want to make fancy title so I did a simple one.

Honestly I didn't think about make my idea simple as you can see. But yeah what you wrote is simple and enough to make this brief.

23 hours ago, Cr4zyFl4mes said:

but he wouldn't get sanity from food. (i changed this one a bit, cause the health penalty is already in game for wormwood)

I like the sanity change. But my reason for giving him this penalty because WX-78 gets a lot of health when he charging.(at least in my idea) But I understand and respect your opinion about this.

23 hours ago, Cr4zyFl4mes said:

They don't help imagining it, they do the opposite.

Alright, I tried with them at least.

23 hours ago, Cr4zyFl4mes said:

The thing i would disagree with is making the 5th phase reset the meter. I would make the 5th stage at 170% - 200% of charge and make it overheat WX or something.

I gave the reset because when WX-78 explode he should lose the charge to turn into damage. I gave 4th phase overheat and for the 5th phase I gave the ultimate overheat, the explosion because when a car or a computer overheat too much then it's explode.

The sleeping buff would be great if WX-78 gets sanity penalty.

[Chesmu]

It's really funny to see such a detailed discussion about thread formatting!

All you need is this: First write what's on your mind, then edit the placement of content and paragraphs while you are formatting, that way you will be re-reading what you wrote too, as a plus; If you first place the formatting there, you will need to change your writing to fit it, therefore confusing the whole thing.

But let's talk about the idea itself a bit, shall we?

 

Here are my thoughts about this suggestion:

• I don't like the exploding WX: Simply because it is making the character more annoying to play rather than fun, and also is a ugly scene; Solution? it should suddenly drop the Sanity to zero.
• The charge phases suggested: Are extremely unbalanced and annoying, it will be a lag+bug simulation to play as WX.
• Number 7 of new mechanism suggestion: It is not a good idea, newbies will be yelled at for burning the base.
• Wetness: You are suggesting a buff for wetness penalty, and it drops items? that would leave no WX mains at game.

Conclusion:

I disagree: If these ideas get applied, playing as WX would be an absolute pain in the ass, as the player needs to constantly calculate charge levels of the character, it feels like accounting.

To make one thing clear, Klei is Refreshing characters, not "Reworking" them, there is a huge difference.

 

[Cr4zyFl4mes]

17 hours ago, LondoniKecske said:

I gave the reset because when WX-78 explode he should lose the charge to turn into damage. I gave 4th phase overheat and for the 5th phase I gave the ultimate overheat, the explosion because when a car or a computer overheat too much then it's explode.

I mean, it does make sense, but i just personally wouldn't like it gameplay-wise. The duality of eating doodads - that sometimes it would give you charge and sometimes it would bring it to 0 is what I don't like. Also the explosion just sounds wierd to me.

16 hours ago, Chesmu said:

I disagree: If these ideas get applied, playing as WX would be an absolute pain in the ass, as the player needs to constantly calculate charge levels of the character, it feels like accounting.

I don't think about it this way. I'd like the increased complexity of overcharge ability. What I don't like about the idea is that it is too similar to wolfgang's ability. But i wouldn't mind this refresh direction, if it was made distinct from Wolfgang.

16 hours ago, Chesmu said:

To make one thing clear, Klei is Refreshing characters, not "Reworking" them, there is a huge difference.

Thx, for pointing that out. I honestly never thought about that distinction and i think anyone discussing it and sugggesting new changes should understand what Klei wants to do.

[LondoniKecske]

23 hours ago, Chesmu said:

All you need is this: First write what's on your mind, then edit the placement of content and paragraphs while you are formatting, that way you will be re-reading what you wrote too, as a plus; If you first place the formatting there, you will need to change your writing to fit it, therefore confusing the whole thing.

Okay, thanks.

23 hours ago, Chesmu said:

I don't like the exploding WX: Simply because it is making the character more annoying to play rather than fun, and also is a ugly scene; Solution? it should suddenly drop the Sanity to zero.

I can understand your reasoning. In my head this explosion thing not really meant to be annoying because in fight it can help you out and also it's hard to achieve it, because after overload you hardly get charge.

6 hours ago, Cr4zyFl4mes said:

The duality of eating doodads - that sometimes it would give you charge and sometimes it would bring it to 0 is what I don't like.

Yeah I know this can make concerns. So I feel I need to give an additional information that can help is warning or somekind of sound/visual that show you passed any phase. Plus if you get overload you get less charge in that phase and when you are getting closer and closer to 200% then, you overheat very badly.

23 hours ago, Chesmu said:

The charge phases suggested: Are extremely unbalanced and annoying, it will be a lag+bug simulation to play as WX.

First part I not sure but the second part which is the lag I don't really understand. Could you explain it more detailed? 

23 hours ago, Chesmu said:

Number 7 of new mechanism suggestion: It is not a good idea, newbies will be yelled at for burning the base.

So with overuse debuff don't cause any fire. I think you thought the "electrical sparkles" meant to be cause fire but that not true because I choose this for visuality purposes. Only mehanism which can cause fire is the shock effect. So for understand it better I give more information that maybe make this effect understandable. What I meant by "spread into flammable objects/structures/environment", it will work only when you touch any flammable object and then rare event can cause fire from it. Which will related to season, so in winter you have 1% chance to cause fire, while in summer you have 10/15% to cause it. But this will start with smoking, so you have chance to stop it. If you didn't write about the overuse/shock effect then I don't know which mehanism you speaking of.

23 hours ago, Chesmu said:

Wetness: You are suggesting a buff for wetness penalty, and it drops items? that would leave no WX mains at game.

Yes I suggest because I don't feel very punished with wetness penalty. But this doesn't mean that the wetness penalty will be op, it mean you get more damage for example: 100% will be normal wetness damage, if you have less you get less damage, so in 0% you don't get wetness penalty, in near 200% you almost get doubled wetness damage. Thats it for damage and I don't feel it make you stop using WX. For drop item you only drop what in your hand and when you use it, which will depend of wetness. The more you have, the more commonly you will drop it. But in other hand the less you have, the less commonly you will drop it.

23 hours ago, Chesmu said:

To make one thing clear, Klei is Refreshing characters, not "Reworking" them, there is a huge difference.

Sorry my bad. I forgot this I only remembered this like rework or I knew it but it felt for me like a rework. I don't sure about which one I had. But after all, I don't think I really rework things since there are still overload, normal phase, wetness penalty, charge, upgrade and spoil food still give maximium food. I think I only give some drawbacks for things and some new possibilities for them.

23 hours ago, Chesmu said:

I disagree: If these ideas get applied, playing as WX would be an absolute pain in the ass, as the player needs to constantly calculate charge levels of the character, it feels like accounting.

It's alright you have your opinion and I respect that. But at the end, all the things in my post is an idea.