Jump to content

base supercooling based on supercoolant


Recommended Posts

Hi all, want to share my solution about base cooling. It is pretty nice, except it require 180kg of supercoolant.

1.thumb.jpg.0094634580f635d3b68efbdb4f2d7bdc.jpg

Props of this build

1. I build floors with 4 tiles in height. So, this construction broke design a little, but still allow to walk on all floors.

2. Pretty efficient. 1 aquatuner + 2 steam generators + supercoolant + 30kg of water inside = 1200 power consumption and 1050 power production = 150 power consumption totally (+10 for water pipe automated blockers).

3. -20 ... -26 celsius for polluted water per loop

4. work with steel (but with thermium would be better)

Cons

1. Need supercoolant (180 kg)

2. most probably after 200-300 cycles it would be broken, because water will disappear (game bug)

3. 3-4 tube tiles exposed to base with -260c supercoolant inside

 

Pipes schema:

Spoiler

1.thumb.jpg.e1ae423f0a4fa913f83363ef6640d4aa.jpg

 

Automation schema:

 

Spoiler

3.thumb.jpg.3d9ebba1748998b34126597efb907931.jpg

 

Power:

 

Spoiler

4.thumb.jpg.102b81808dcd7a995fe02b789f361e81.jpg

 

How it work

Aquatuner cool supercoolant for 12 Celsius, and make from 30 kg of water enough steam to produce more then 1000 power from steam generators. Steam generators return water back. Cold supercoolant (-260C) float in insulated pipes, and 4 copper pipes. Polluted water float through metal door (made from copper). Heat exchange allow to cool water for 26 Celsius.

How automation work

bottom-left thermo sensor check supercoolant temperature (green signal if temperature above -260). It connected to buffer filter(5 sec duration). Buffer filter connected to pipe blocker and NOT gate. NOT gate connected to another pipe blocker. So, if supercoolant too cold, aquatuner idle.

 

Bottom-right thermo sensor(send green signal if temperature below 25) connected to buffer filter (10 sec). So, if temperature 0, door should be open, because in this case water will be frozen into ice. 5 sec buffer handle situation when drop of water is 0 Celsius, and next drop of water is 30 Celsius.


Top thermo sensor (send green signal if temperature below 20(or any you feel comfortable)) connected to door without any filters.

Cold water going to water tank, to make "average temperature". I suggest to put at least 500 kg of polluted water in tank. If outgoing temperature is below of 20, door will stay open, system "idle" until water in tank reach 20. After water become 20, door closed and water going to 19. So, you will have always same temperature (+-0.2 C) on output pipe.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello, it is a pretty nice design ! 
I guess you could simplify it for survival. In my opinion, for your base, supercoolant is a bit overkill, you can get awesome results with Pwater (you usually don't need your base to be lower than 0 Celsius. 
I think the problem with water "disappearing" in your build is not a bug, but rather some pipes are breaking due to water flashing to steam. 
To stabilize the temperature, instead of the metal tiles and door (which seem complicated), as you suggested you can just increase the mass of water in the steam room. To do this easily you can have a thin layer of Pwater (which will leave some dirt, so you can't do this if your steam is too hot, but for the base cooling it should be okay) beneath the water.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

>supercoolant is a bit overkill

No, because when aquatuner process supercoolant it give more heat. As I write, 2 steam turbines return 1100 watt power in my setup. If you will process polluted water, you will have around 450 watt.

I'm using similar build(without door and metal tiles) for base cooling in mid game stages

>I think the problem with water "disappearing" in your build is not a bug

It is definitely bug, because there is no way to break pipes. Steam turbine return 90C water, it can't explode insulated pipes on so short distance. Especially with polluted water.

>To stabilize the temperature, instead of the metal tiles and door (which seem complicated), as you suggested you can just increase the mass of water in the steam room

Actually, I did not understand what are you talking about. I need water temperature between 200 and 250 inside of steam room to produce enough power, and to protect aquatuner from heat damage. And to stabilize polluted water which I'm using to cool base I can use water tank.

Of course, you can drop more water in steam room, for an example 200kg, and in this case it will work much more time (if 200 loops for 30 kg, it will work 1500 loops for 200kg), but it will not return energy back.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, degr said:

>I think the problem with water "disappearing" in your build is not a bug

 

It is definitely bug, because there is no way to break pipes. Steam turbine return 90C water, it can't explode insulated pipes on so short distance. Especially with polluted water.

If the steam turbine room is hot enough, yes, it could heat up the water (so long as the pipes aren't made of insulation) I have never had water disappear, but I have had pipes break from freezing or evaporating.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was just giving my humble opinion, wasn't meant to be mean towards your build :)
It is just that I usually have other solutions for power so maxing the turbine efficiency wouldn't be my main concern. I understand that it was your goal and I respect it. 
The reason I think water flashed into steam is I never encountered such a bug (of water disappearing) and never heard of it, and there is a damaged pipe on the right in your picture. 
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

>and there is a damaged pipe on the right in your picture

Yes, it happen because there was 5 kg of water (in cooling chamber), and this water was cooled for 50C instead of 25. But you are pointing to cooling frame, while water disappear in steam chamber. It is separated frames.

For an example, on this pictures top wall have temperature 68C, Insulated pipes also 68, water inside of this pipes is below 95C. This aquatuner is 503 cycles old, and there is almost no water inside (19g per tile currently, if steam turbines will iddle, it would be around 100-200g per tile, totally around 2kg instead of 30) (you may notice, gas pump damages already). 

Untitled.thumb.jpg.a3e481054188105324aef9821ccad3b8.jpg

Untitled.jpg.145ec80f1338dc662aec87dc948d5b4a.jpg

Here another same setup, with age 300 cycles. It is iddle, and steam density is 817g per tile, it mean there is 10kg of water totally (originally it was 30).

Untitled.thumb.jpg.e5bd312200e9d94c962dcf8bcac20c09.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, degr said:

Here another same setup, with age 300 cycles. It is iddle, and steam density is 817g per tile, it mean there is 10kg of water totally (originally it was 30).

I'm curious why you put so little water in the steam room? I routinely have a couple hundred kg per tile.  It's hard to even get dupes to deliver less than 200kg at a time, but the main reason is to buffer temperature spikes.

I wonder if low steam pressure could be the cause of the mass deletion. I've never noticed it happening over hundreds of cycles. Or maybe it's so little it's not apparent in a high mass steam room.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/8/2021 at 7:32 PM, degr said:

Steam turbine return 90C water

95.

11 hours ago, degr said:

This aquatuner is 503 cycles old, and there is almost no water inside (19g per tile currently, if steam turbines will iddle, it would be around 100-200g per tile, totally around 2kg instead of 30) (you may notice, gas pump damages already). 

You have 12х2kg packages of water in the turbine output pipes and another 4 now in the turbine, a total of 30 kg. That's why you don't have anything in the chamber when the system is at maximum power (in fact, there's something there because the turbines are apparently operating with failures on such a small stock of steam, but very little at all). The fact that you show us the weight of steam on one cell does not prove anything, because the steam is not evenly distributed in the chamber. There are 22 tiles in your chamber, so even multiplying 815x22 we get 17930g of H2O or ~18kg. Considering such serious errors in calculations, I can assume that this is not a bug, but the systematically incorrect calculations and poor understanding of the mechanics of the game. It's normal, I made similar mistakes and didn't understand what the reason was either. The reason was in faulty calculations. There is nothing to be ashamed of and no need to be offended. But it's up to you.

It is the lack of steam, not its "Disappearance" that causes to overheat the aquatuner. On average, less than 100g of steam is in contact with it, such mass of substance is not enough for effective cooling. Put the aqua tuner flat and pour petrolium into the chamber, do that whenever by design the aqua tuner will run nonstop. And add more steam. Maybe this will save your design.

You could also use just one water outlet for both turbines, but your design is more symmetrical, I like it. I even seem to understand why you had to put them there despite the worsening visual appearance of the design. Put them anywhere else and the aquatuner will explode after 50, not 300 cycles. 

On 2/7/2021 at 2:41 AM, degr said:

bottom-left thermo sensor check supercoolant temperature (green signal if temperature above -260). It connected to buffer filter(5 sec duration). Buffer filter connected to pipe blocker and NOT gate. NOT gate connected to another pipe blocker. So, if supercoolant too cold, aquatuner idle.

Overcomplicated. Just connect a pipe thermosensor to the aquatuner, place it right at the incoming pipe and put a bypass bridge. Saves you 10 watts of power, 30-40 kg of supercoolant, and makes the system more reliable. Study this carefully to understand how to build it (note where the thermosensor stands):

 

Spoiler

3.thumb.jpg.8c90e6d568bcb97816511605faa0d9c1.jpg

By the way. It's not that significant, but you have turbines on the same transformer as the aquatuner, what electricity are you generating from them if you don't have it connected to the main grid? Connect the turbines to a separate 4kW transformer in reverse - the thin wire to the thick output, and the thick wire of the main grid to the thin output. Then the electricity will really start to be generated instead of being wasted.

 

30 minutes ago, ghkbrew said:

I'm curious why you put so little water in the steam room?

Because the less water, the faster the aquatuner heats it up to operating temperatures. His goal was not just to build base cooling, but to make it almost free. That's why the supercoolant was used, that's why there is so little steam in the chamber. The idea is decent, just a little lack of experience.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, MachineryMan said:

You have 12х2kg packages of water in the turbine output pipes and another 4 now in the turbine, a total of 30 kg. That's why you don't have anything in the chamber when the system is at maximum power (in fact, there's something there because the turbines are apparently operating with failures on such a small stock of steam, but very little at all). The fact that you show us the weight of steam on one cell does not prove anything, because the steam is not evenly distributed in the chamber. There are 22 tiles in your chamber, so even multiplying 815x22 we get 17930g of H2O or ~18kg. Considering such serious errors in calculations, I can assume that this is not a bug, but the systematically incorrect calculations and poor understanding of the mechanics of the game. It's normal, I made similar mistakes and didn't understand what the reason was either. The reason was in faulty calculations. There is nothing to be ashamed of and no need to be offended. But it's up to you.

No. There is 3 pictures, 2 about one setup (500 cycles) and 1 from new setup (300 cycles). If generators iddle, there is far less then 30 kg in steam chambers. Calculations correct, I attach a save file. There is around 5-6 such cooling devices, and no one of them contain 30 kg of initial water (and I can assure you, I did not turn on gas pumps).

1 hour ago, MachineryMan said:

By the way. It's not that significant, but you have turbines on the same transformer as the aquatuner, what electricity are you generating from them if you don't have it connected to the main grid?

It's bit different topic, but think I'm ok with it. I'm using this connection:

Untitled.thumb.jpg.a4ffab22afdc57eb8f50b02d279d5113.jpg

So, main net charge battery to max, and batter disable transformator. Steam turbines return power to battery, supplying aquatuner.

 

>Overcomplicated. Just connect a pipe thermosensor to the aquatuner, place it right at the incoming pipe and put a bypass bridge. 

Will try, thx

Бригада Cycle 770.sav

2 hours ago, ghkbrew said:

I'm curious why you put so little water in the steam room? I routinely have a couple hundred kg per tile.  It's hard to even get dupes to deliver less than 200kg at a time, but the main reason is to buffer temperature spikes.

 

2 hours ago, MachineryMan said:

Because the less water, the faster the aquatuner heats it up to operating temperatures. His goal was not just to build base cooling, but to make it almost free

Yes

Actually, there is no temperature spikes.

2 hours ago, ghkbrew said:

It's hard to even get dupes to deliver less than 200kg at a time

Yes, I deliver it with pipes - build one pipe bridge, connect 3 pipes to it and one more pipe bridge at the end, then destroy first pipe bridge, and now

you have 30 kg of water in pipes.

2 hours ago, ghkbrew said:

I wonder if low steam pressure could be the cause of the mass deletion. I've never noticed it happening over hundreds of cycles. Or maybe it's so little it's not apparent in a high mass steam room.

Don't know, but apparently there is something wrong. However it is not a big deal, as I can see, it work for 500 loops.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, degr said:

Calculations correct, I attach a save file.

Ok. I'll take a look, if I find the time. Try to pour petrolium, increase the mass of water in the chamber by at least 10 kg and see how the aquatuner will behave in such a design. I don't think I'll be able to see the save until a week from now. I think it's pretty easy to do since you already have a supercoolant. 10kg of water won't undermine the energy reproduction much. I still think it's getting sucked all into the turbines and that's why the overheating is happening.

3 hours ago, degr said:

So, main net charge battery to max, and batter disable transformator. Steam turbines return power to battery, supplying aquatuner.

Yes, such a design has a right to exist. The energy will not be wasted as long as the aquatuner is not idle with the turbines running. And, as I understand it, tuner is almost never idle.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok. So, now it even more simple and 2 times more efficient:

Spoiler

242476120_NewTextDocument(2).thumb.jpg.3319200b27f6c0d451c63069cbdc2c31.jpg

Now supercoolant flow by most straight forward route, and insulated pipes hidden inside of insulation.

Right cooling chamber work for 3 top floors, then hot water come to left cooling chamber, and cool 3 bottom floors of my base.

Steam turbines work 100% of time during last 44 cycles producing 1100 watt of power,

Supercoolant temperature between -190 and -170

Also, I change amount of water, now it is 60 kg for steam chamber. Turbines work much more stable, because there is enough of steam. Think (and hope) bug with mass deletion was related to small amount of steam.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Please be aware that the content of this thread may be outdated and no longer applicable.

×
×
  • Create New...