# Carnivore is a hassle with only 100 cycles

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Olah!

I think the achievement 'Carnivore' is a hassle with only 100 cycles. I get that it forces people to get directly into critters, but, the math just doesn't add up.

400.000 Kcal over 100 cycles, and you can't get started before the 15th Cycle due to Ranching. Meaning you have to eat an average of (400.000/(100-15))=~4706 kcal per cycles, meaning you need to feed about 5 dupes a day with only meat.

I start with an average of 15-20 hatches per biomes, which takes about 15 cycles to get out, then I need them to lay an egg before I can eat it. Without incubation, an egg takes 20 cycles to hatch.

Not only that, it takes 50 cycles for the hatches to lay a new egg. Meaning, I can rotate my harvest every 70 cycles, if I want to increase my farm I need 100 cycles to get 2 eggs. As not all hatches are below 50 of age at unburrow, I can on average only count on them to reproduce, not increase my farm.

I am therefore curious to know if this is to force people to eat all critters near the base and then try to survive on farming, which is then challenged if you also do the Carnivore challenge. I just feel like it should be changed to "within 100 cycles" and not "before the 100th cycle". That way you can still do it later on but is still forced to ranch.

EDIT ---------------------

I have played a few maps just to see how it all works out and get more data.

I have an average start of 9-10 hatches buried in the ground, ranging from the age of 30 to 80, meaning that I generally get eggs within the first 20 cycles.

It generally takes me to cycle 16-17 to get my first dupe into ranching, in which time I can easily prepare the structure and is on the way to build incubators.

Found out that grilling meat makes it go from 3.200kcal to 4000kcal, which is a huge improvement.

400.000 / 4000kcal = 40 bbq's. Dupes lose ~1000kcal a day, meaning it would take 40 cycles for 1 dupe, 20 cycles for 2 dupes, 10 cycled for 4 dupes, etc. In general, if you focus on the ranching and getting the hatch count up, you should be able to wait until the 60th cycle to start living off of meat. I would not recommend waiting until later than the 70th cycle, just in case something goes wrong.

Additionally, make sure you find a way of powering incubators as that gives 10* multiplier and only needs to be lullabied 15% of each cycle. Meaning with a little automation and power-setup, you can setup 8 incubators where 4 is lullabied first 15% of the cycle and 4 the following 15%.

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Hi MrBetaSkull, achievement exists but you're not forced to do them. If it does not suit your playstyle, don't bother to do them.

For me, I saw them as a new way to play when they were implemented and they were a challenge, that's the reason why I wanted to do them.

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Carnivore is the best achievement in the game because it's the only challenging one.

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On 2/1/2020 at 6:23 PM, Romain_L said:

Hi MrBetaSkull, achievement exists but you're not forced to do them. If it does not suit your playstyle, don't bother to do them.

For me, I saw them as a new way to play when they were implemented and they were a challenge, that's the reason why I wanted to do them.

I do not see the point of this comment as I know it is not forced upon me, but I want to complete it. Just take me some extra math to see it through.

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50 cycle?  Hatches lay an egg every 6 cycle.

Also...

Quote

400.000 / 4000kcal = 40 bbq

More like 100 bbqs.

So... To achieve that, I guess you need 3 full ranch.

You can start with 1. If you can gather 8 wild hatch as soon as you get ranch, you should get your first batch of eggs to fill your 2nd ranch before cycle 30 and therefore, your 3rd ranch should be filled around cycle 36.  From 36 to 80 (Assuming no incubators), that ranch will give you 56 eggs.

2nd ranch would have hatch hatching before cycle 50 and won't mature before 55, so by 80, they will give you roughly 32 eggs

3rd ranch will start  producing around cycle 60, so 24 eggs.

So should be 112 eggs. My math might be off a bit because some hatch might die on the way there... But you can make up for it with some incubator.

Also, if your ranch is full... you need to pick the egg ASAP... Can't afford to leave it in the ranch, or else the hatch will get "Cramped" and won't produce eggs anymore.

The other option is to YOLO it in style, get to surface and ranch Shove Vole!

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I think the OP's point is that, relative to other achievements, this is a much higher level of difficulty.

Getting the achievement is neat because it lets you try another playstyle, focused on ranching.  It gives you stuff to do once you've played for a bit and want to try new things.

I don't think hard achievements should be removed or nerfed, more should be added.  But this one is not balanced relative to others.

They could change "Carnivore" to 250 kcal.  Then add a second achievement, "Master Carnivore" at 500 kcal.  (Or change the cycle limit.)

That gives a challenge for seasoned veterans while making the initial achievement more balanced compared to the others.  And you could follow a similar pattern for other achievements, adding tougher versions of them.

Carnivore seems unique in that it is the only achievement that is time limited.  They could add more of these, like "go to space before cycle 50" or "use 1000 kj of power by cycle 100".  But I don't see why the basic ranching achievement needs to be so much different than the rest.

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I'm working by now on getting to the temporal tear for the first time so i can focus on this achievement.

But one thing i learn in so many years of gaming: "carnivore" and " Master carnivore" - People will complain anyway because "master" is too hard.

I vote for only add some other achievements, not nerfing the ones we got now, they are great incentive for this game, and yo have a really good reward feeling when you finally got them.