Is there a rocket in my base? (landed rocket detector)

[Yank31]

This is a landed rocket detector :

Plugged to a scanner (input), It will detect if a rocket is landed or not. This is not time based, this is frequency based (meaning it's impervious to meteor showers "bad luck" or what have you).

Basically what it does is output a sequence of red, red, red and green. And again.

 

Meaning that :

- when your rocket takes off, the tracking scanner gives a green signal, the system outputs red (no rocket landed)

- when your rocket leaves the sky entirely, the tracking scanner gives a red signal, the system outputs red (no rocket landed)

- when your rocket is detected on its way back, the tracking scanner gives a green signal, the system outputs red (no rocket landed)

- when your rocket is landed, the tracking scanner gives a red signal, the system outputs green (rocket is landed) -- and will keep outputting green until the rocket takes off, at which point it will immediately send red (no rocket landed)

 

It is mainly meant for refueling automation.

 

It is heavily inspired by @saturnus contraptions (basically just pieces of them), and I'm looking for feedback or way to make it smaller, because it's quite... well, un-small.

 

edit: a slightly more compact version (exactly the same thing, just layed out differently)

Spoiler

 

[bobe17]

The block I use to memorize when a rocket goes on an expedition: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1887670644
The block that covers the solar panel.
The AND on which the rocket scanner is linked is to ignore its signal if the rocket is landed (the scanners automatically return to meteorite detection if we deconstruct the control capsule).

[Z0366]

I have to be honest I have no clue where to connect to what. It would definitely help if I may see a rocket scanner and the fuel pump actually connected somewhere....

[Yank31]

Well, yes. Sorry.

 

On the left side, the red thermo sensor is the input. So you would replace that by a scanner.

On the right side, the green power shut-off is the output. So... yes, you could directly plug a pump in it I guess, provided you have a looping pipe circuit. Because this signal will only get red when the rocket takes off again, and nothing else (not when reservoir is full, nor rocket is ready -- no : when it leaves the ground), so if you plug your pump directly to it, it will stay green (and keep pumping) until the rocket takes off. Which can be fine or not depending on how you laid your pipes.

 

In other words this contraption is not meant to be a full "detect and refuel" system, it's the detection part of it, which will only detect if a rocket is landed, and output a green signal if that is the case, red otherwise.

And it's up to you to decide what you do with this green signal.

On my base, I linked the output to an other automation block (which does refueling things).

[Chthonicone]

2 hours ago, Yank31 said:

Well, yes. Sorry.

 

On the left side, the red thermo sensor is the input. So you would replace that by a scanner.

On the right side, the green power shut-off is the output. So... yes, you could directly plug a pump in it I guess, provided you have a looping pipe circuit. Because this signal will only get red when the rocket takes off again, and nothing else (not when reservoir is full, nor rocket is ready -- no : when it leaves the ground), so if you plug your pump directly to it, it will stay green (and keep pumping) until the rocket takes off. Which can be fine or not depending on how you laid your pipes.

 

In other words this contraption is not meant to be a full "detect and refuel" system, it's the detection part of it, which will only detect if a rocket is landed, and output a green signal if that is the case, red otherwise.

And it's up to you to decide what you do with this green signal.

On my base, I linked the output to an other automation block (which does refueling things).

So, I could have it trip a S/R latch after when fuel gets past the rocket to stop refueling until next landing resets the latch?

This is to mark when it's fully fueled I mean, so fuel doesn't get stuck in a pipe warming up.

[Grimgaw]

Why don't you use 'rocket ready' signal as input?

[Chthonicone]

4 hours ago, Grimgaw said:

Why don't you use 'rocket ready' signal as input?

Well, that requires a dupe in the cockpit, doesn't it?

[Yank31]

Well, there was this... amazing post in an other topic, that I noticed too late.

On 09/10/2019 at 1:38 PM, Stoned said:

I struggled with that problem for quite a bit. It was easy once I realized what the difference between landing and takeoff is. During landing the rocket sensor is green and the rocket checklist is red. During takeoff the rocket sensor and checklist are green and both stay green until the rocket is out of sight. with that information the automation setup for refueling was easy.

I have not looked into it much, because I was trying to perfect my own contraption, but, that could be a much easier solution.

[Chthonicone]

16 minutes ago, Yank31 said:

Well, there was this... amazing post in an other topic, that I noticed too late.

I have not looked into it much, because I was trying to perfect my own contraption, but, that could be a much easier solution.

But doesn't the checklist not go green until you have a pilot in the capsule? So it doesn't tell you when to stop fueling unless you preload your pilot.

[Yank31]

I didn't look into it.

However that's not how I would use this information, more like : if scanner is green and rocket checklist is red = landing, if scanner is green and checklist is green = takeoff. Basically what he said.

Note that in those 2 instances, there must be a pilot, so your worry is moot.

And I would use this to make a different landed rocket detection system, probably much smaller than mine above ()

 

Those information are not great at telling you when to stop refueling, but neither is my system above. Both are meant to detect if there's a rocket landed or not, and not much else.

I still have this image in my clipboard so here goes :

Spoiler

Basically what's right under the scanner is the detection widget (as shown above in this topic) and everything else UNDER that (under the bottom horizontal automation line) is the refueling logic.

(Above the scanner is the "door opening delay" logic but that's not exactly great, yet...)

 

Detecting a rocket =/= managing its refueling, is what I'm getting at!

[Chthonicone]

13 minutes ago, Yank31 said:

I didn't look into it.

However that's not how I would use this information, more like : if scanner is green and rocket checklist is red = landing, if scanner is green and checklist is green = takeoff. Basically what he said.

Note that in those 2 instances, there must be a pilot, so your worry is moot.

And I would use this to make a different landed rocket detection system, probably much smaller than mine above ()

 

Those information are not great at telling you when to stop refueling, but neither is my system above. Both are meant to detect if there's a rocket landed or not, and not much else.

I still have this image in my clipboard so here goes :

  Reveal hidden contents

Basically what's right under the scanner is the detection widget (as shown above in this topic) and everything else UNDER that (under the bottom horizontal automation line) is the refueling logic.

(Above the scanner is the "door opening delay" logic but that's not exactly great, yet...)

 

Detecting a rocket =/= managing its refueling, is what I'm getting at!

I was looking for a way to determine when to stop fueling the rocket, honestly. That's all. I don't like volitile fuels backing up in my pipes, to raise or lower in temp.

[Yank31]

That's a different system completely. I personally use a filter, set on x seconds, where x = amount of fuel needed / 10. That's the bottom logic system shown above.

But this topic was *only* about landed rocket detection. Which does help in knowing when to trigger a refueling system, but those are 2 different things

[Grimgaw]

5 hours ago, Chthonicone said:

But doesn't the checklist not go green until you have a pilot in the capsule? So it doesn't tell you when to stop fueling unless you preload your pilot.

So you just fuel your rockets and never fly them?

5 hours ago, Chthonicone said:

I was looking for a way to determine when to stop fueling the rocket, honestly. That's all. I don't like volitile fuels backing up in my pipes, to raise or lower in temp.

If you make a fuel loop back into your storage and get fuel detector at the end you'll know when to cut fuel.

[Chthonicone]

5 hours ago, Grimgaw said:

So you just fuel your rockets and never fly them?

If you make a fuel loop back into your storage and get fuel detector at the end you'll know when to cut fuel.

Point 1: I don't necessarily leave a pilot in the rocket until the end of time.

Point 2: I already suggested that, and was told "just use the checklist signal" so you're chasing me in circles here.

[Grimgaw]

29 minutes ago, Chthonicone said:

so you're chasing me in circles here.

Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't realise you changed the thread to detecting whether the rocket is fuelled.

My original reply:

On 10/13/2019 at 11:22 AM, Grimgaw said:

Why don't you use 'rocket ready' signal as input?

was to OP not your derailment.

[Chthonicone]

36 minutes ago, Grimgaw said:

Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't realise you changed the thread to detecting whether the rocket is fuelled.

My original reply:

was to OP not your derailment.

Well, I was trying to figure out how to effectively use it.

It was a circuit to detect if the rocket was present. What needs to know when the rocket is present? Well fueling for one.

So my talk was a direct extension from the topic, trying to use the topic constructively. Of course you did come along and give some good points, so you are on topic as well.

So, no, I didn't change the topic, neither did you. Both of us were extending the topic, me to uses, you to simpler systems. I just didn't want to argue in circles about things I figured out for one system that I could apply to another.

[Yank31]

22 hours ago, Grimgaw said:

My original reply:

was to OP not your derailment.

Oh, I didn't realize it was.

Yes, I think using what I later quoted (command capsule & scanner outputs combination) could be as good, could be done with much less wiring, and be more reliable over all.

I didn't use it because I didn't know this information at the time. It might indeed be better on all fronts.

 

The only benefit of my system would be that... you don't need any rocket signals, meaning you could put it anywhere on the map. It doesn't need to be close the the rocket.

 

22 hours ago, Chthonicone said:

Well, I was trying to figure out how to effectively use it.

 

Yes, the main use, the intended use at least is to trigger a refueling system. This will give you the "start refueling" signal, basically.

Now the "stop refueling" signal requires a bit more automation, and depends on what your refueling pipes look like (loop or not). Just another bunch of wires basically. I did show you mine but I didn't want to go in greater details about it, in this topic, as I too like when topics are, well, focused.