My Ideas For All Character Reworks

[Seth_88w88]

I've had these for a while, and when I found out about all characters being reworked I decided to make the list a bit nicer as well as post here instead of looking for someone who knows how to code, as I have been planning an overhaul-type mod for a long time. Putting a lot of effort into that, this is what my thoughts were for each character:

Wilson:
1.The meat effigy is more useful, giving the player full stats when revived using it, but costs a bit more.
2. Wilson gets a bit more sanity from food that gives it, but food that takes away sanity takes more.
3. Shadow creatures drain more of Wilson's sanity and gives back less when killed.
Willow:
1. Fire immunity is back.
2. Everyone can cook on her lighter, but it takes 3% for others.
3. When Willow is wet her sanity drains faster.
4. Her lighter can be refueled with nitre.
Wolfgang:
1. When Wolfgang is mighty he will always do 1.7x damage, no more, no less, but keeps the health and speed bonus.
2. When wimpy he will move slower, and the usual do less damage, and have less health.
3. His sanity drains much faster instead of how it is now.
4. The transformation animation can now be canceled.
5. When healing as Wimpy Wolfgang, it will give less health back.
Wendy:
1. Abigail has a bit more damage and better regen, also gets a little stronger permanently for every full moon to a limit.
WX-78:
1. When raining his attack damage is lowered and he takes more damage from both the rain and enemy attacks.
2. The charge lasts a shorter amount of time.
3. He can eat electrical doodads for a charge.
4 Gears only take his stats up to when his health gets to 350.
5. Some foods, such as Monster Meat, do not give a sanity or health penalty.
Wickerbottom:
1. On Tentacles can now be made with a Science Machine, getting rid of the need for an Alchemy Engine.
2. Stale food gives nothing at all when eaten, and spoiled food lowers 20 hunger and 40 + any sanity drain the food would of had. 
3. Change her book recipes, they are far too easy to craft.
-Birds of the World: 4 papyrus, 5 eggs, a feather pencil.
-Applied Horticulture: 4 papyrus, 12 manure, a feather pencil.
-Sleepytime Stories: 4 papyrus, 8 nightmare fuel, a feather pencil.
-The End is Nigh!: 4 papyrus, 2 red gems, a feather pencil.
-On Tentacles: 4 papyrus, 2 tentacle spots, a feather pencil.
4. Rework her books, some way too unbalanced.
-Nerf for every book, you NEED sanity to use them, so having 0, or even 49 sanity, you can't use a book. You must have at least 50 sanity.
-Birds of the World: Honestly fine how it is, 50 sanity per use for 3 uses to get a ring of birds.
-Applied Horticulture: Takes away 50 sanity per use, have only 4 uses, but able to fertalize plantables as well. Meaning one read to fertalize plantables, and you have 3 more to get food and resources and such with, taking away 200 sanity a book.
-Sleepytime Stories: Again 4 uses, 50 sanity drain, I don't think too much else should be changed with this book other than that.
-The End is Nigh!: I think this book needs a major nerf in uses, 3 instead of 5, and the sanity drain per use to 50.
-On Tentacles: Think I would just nerf books? This one should have a much needed buff of, tentacles not spawning close enough to Wicker that she gets attacked after using her book, meaning no need for broken down grass walls. Although the uses should be brought down to four, but the book should also spawn 4 tentacles instead of 3.
5. New books! Here are the recipes and uses for them all:
-1. One book uses the sprite of Joy of Volcanology from Shipwrecked.
Being called "Falling Sky" With the description: "Let the sky fall around you."
Crafted with a shadow manipulator using 4 papyrus, 6 moon rock, and a feather pencil, has 3 uses and drains 50 sanity per use, summoning 6 random meteors that hit around the player (Not giving rocks, flint, moon rocks, etc.)
Using the book underground starts an earthquake.
-2. Another book would be using the sprite of the Tome of Beckoning.
Being called "Wild Precipitation" With the description: "Cause the sky to weep or cheer it up."
Crafted at a Prestihatinator, using 4 papyrus, 2 blue gems, and a feather pencil, has 3 uses, drains 50 sanity per use, causes the weather to change to either start raining, snowing or to stop.
Starts and stops cave rain as well.
-3. The last I could think of using the sprite of the Petrifying Tome.
Being called "Biological Differences" With the description: "You can change the world."
Crafted with a Science Machine, using 4 papyrus, 20 seeds, and a feather pencil, has 3 uses, drains 50 sanity per use, causes all objects in a radius like applied horticulture to change into their varient, meaning:
Bushes cylce from Normal to Fancy then Juicy Berry
Trees cycle from Evergreen to Lumpy Evergreen then Petrified.
Saplings to Twiggy Trees (In their just planted with a pinecone stage.)
Grass Tufts to Grass Geckos (If used on Grass Geckos they just die without dropping grass or leafy meat, only a grass tuft, as to not exploit them all to get in one spot and be able to harvest grass from there, but not losing your grass tufts.)
Meat to Monster Meat
Bee Hive to Killer Bee Hive
Cacti to Oasis Cacti
Red Gems to Blue Gems
Pig Skin to Bunny Puffs
Mushrooms cycle from Red, Green, then Blue.
And vise versa for them all.
6. She's old, not in her prime like the others, but not as bad as Maxwell. Her health and hunger should be 125.
Woodie:
1. Werebeaver has a bit more damage and defense, not as strong as singleplayer but close.
2. Beaverness doesn't go down when not "working."
3. Beaverness now goes down when mining and digging, although to a lesser extent.
4. He can gnaw the flower off the Glommer Statue, small change but means you don't have to revert back to human.
Wes:
1. 100 to all stats.
2. Balloons now take 4 sanity.
3. Mobs agro on balloons a little bit better.
Maxwell: 
1. Shadow puppets aren't dumb anymore, no mining the Glommer Statue and only cutting down trees when you do.
Wigfrid:
1. Some enemies being changed in how much health and sanity they give.
2. Loses less sanity when fighting, this lasts basically until the fight music stops.
Webber:
1. Friended spiders give now sanity, a fifth of what pigs give each.
2. Unfriended pigs and bunnymen now drain sanity, how much spiders do to normal players.
3. Only loses sanity during the day, about as much as you lose after a normal Autumn day, being a pain for Summer but great for Winter.
4. Loses a little less sanity in the caves, but the usual amount in the light,
5. Monster meat poisons others, but not Webber or WX.
6. Can sleep in spider nests, different effects per tier. Tier 1 like sleeping on the ground, Tier 2 like sleeping on a bunny roll, Tier 3 like sleeping in a tent.
7. Bats are nice to Webber, as well as when fed bananas or meat they poop, to make up for dreaded catcoons.
Winona:
1. Can fix up weapons and armor with her tape.
2. Starts with Joe, the lazy infinite hammer, I have all possible dialogue needed for them, think the opposite of Lucy.
3. Loses sanity around fire.
4. Can pick roses without taking damage, having special dialogue for it, something along the lines of "A simple pick does the trick, as Charlie says."
5. Can place structures 1.5x faster.
6 She avoids Charlie completely, and Charlie does more to others, instead of just 100 damage also lowers you max hp by 10%.
7. Fashion clothes have a much lower effect on her.
Wanton (My ant character I made, I had him in here for the mod but might as well put him in here if Klei is interested.):
Stats: 75 hunger, 75 sanity above ground and 120 sanity below, 75 hp.
Special Ability: His hunger and sanity goes down a bit slower, as well as having some natural armor.
Can dig without needing a shovel, and has a good grip on tools so they can't fly off when wet or when Goose Goose yells.
Is effected less by the cold and heat.
Is considered a monster, but spiders and bats are also hostile.

If requested I might as well put what I had for biomes, items, crafting recipes, things you can find in the world, changes to seasons, etc. It is A LOT and I think it's time for them to leave my notes finally. Also never posted here, or, well anywhere, I'm probably doing something wrong with the post but live and learn I guess?. xp

[Swanky Psammead]

You clearly put a lot of time and thought into this, thank you so much for sharing : )

I really like a lot of your ideas. I think your Wicker nerf proposals are very sensible and elegant (and they have precedent--Wes is already locked out from making balloons at low Sanity). Forcing her to spend a lot of jerky/ice cream/cactus/cooked green caps/taffy/time regenerating at a sanity station with the bee queen crown between book readings would be a very good first step toward balancing her, though she miiiiiiiight be able to bypass it too easily by Applied Horticulture'ing a lot of green caps in mushroom planters; we'd have to see. One use of Applied Horticulture can yield dozens of green caps but it would cost a lot of time and living logs to set up the farm and maintain it, and that might even it out.

Not as sure about the Wolfgang changes. Wolfgang's buffs/nerfs to damage and health in Wimpy and Mighty Form being linear and incremental, rather than flat changes, was something that added a lot of depth to his kit--very rewarding for his experienced players. Managing Wolf's hunger during a fight makes fights more engaging in some respects than they are for other characters; you know exactly how many Dark Swords you need to bring to kill the Dragonfly when playing as any other character, but with Wolfgang you could need as many as 9 or as few as 3 depending on how good/bad you are at managing his hunger. By the same token I am not sure about reduced healing effectiveness in Wimpy form (in his current state, Wimpy form is the best time for Wolfgang to heal--becoming Mighty increases his current HP by the same multiplier as his maximum HP, which means that a jellybean he uses at 0 Hunger to heal 122 HP effectively converts to 244 HP when he goes Mighty, while a jellybean he uses when he is already Mighty will do nothing special). I would like to see that interaction preserved. I also really like the threat of Wolf getting stuck in his transformation animation if you forget to pay attention to his stomach during a fight, and I would prefer if it stays (I particularly like its very situational use as a source of invincibility frames!)

Increasing Wolfgang's sanity drain would be a net buff to him, I think. Wolfgang has the easiest time fighting Shadow Creatures of all the survivors so increasing his sanity drain really just gives him more and longer opportunities to farm nightmare fuel.

If I were to nerf Wolfgang, I'd start by taking away his Mighty speed buff entirely. It doesn't have the same interesting emergent interactions as his damage and health bonuses do. It has never sat right with me that the heavyweight bruiser Wolfgang gets a built-in speed boost while the lean scrappy Wigfrid does not; he's the George Foreman to her Muhammad Ali, he shouldn't be floating like a butterfly and stinging like a bee more effectively than she does, y'know? It particularly bothers me because speed is a universally strong character stat in the DS franchise--being speedy doesn't just make you better at kiting/fighting, it also makes you better at exploring, gathering, running errands to the Pig King or the swamp, etc. etc., all things that Wolfgang isn't thematically specialized in (he's just supposed to be the best fighter). If he were to have a speed bonus at all, I'd say that it should end 4-5 seconds after he stops hitting a mob (and that Wigfrid should get the same effect or better) so that it can't be used for anything other than kiting in combat.

[Seth_88w88]

Thank you for the feedback! I may change this in the near future with some of the points you have, definitely should rethink the sanity idea, your point about fuel farming being easier somehow didn't cross my mind.^^' Right now I think I may either post speculation/ideas for the new characters, or possible biomes and some other world gen changes, I'm thinking crafting and food reworks in the more distant future as that will take a longer time to make for a nicer list than everything bundled up in notes how they are now, and I never really started on food changes. xp May use most of my current time to perfect these even if they may never get noticed, I just like creating ideas for games I love.

[talula]

17 hours ago, Swanky Psammead said:

You clearly put a lot of time and thought into this

yeah, a lot of things goes into ideas for lots of people, and its often really good that people can get behind their ideas, but gosh, each of these seems to have their own glaring problems, winona most of all. the refreshes shouldn't be so vast, from what i can tell the refreshes are meant to be just refreshes, the new characters come later. changing too much just seems like a bad idea for this no matter how you slice it, sorry. just my opinion though. =(

[Swanky Psammead]

3 hours ago, talula said:

the refreshes shouldn't be so vast, from what i can tell the refreshes are meant to be just refreshes

I agree, but I think Seth's ideas have value when considered individually. I don't think they were pitching these as a packaged deal where Klei has to take or leave all of them, just a lot of separate suggestions : 3

Wicker needs the most work of all survivors though, I think. Simple changes on their own won't balance her. Her power doesn't come from strong stats that can have their numbers tweaked a little bit (like Wolfgang's damage or WX's speed and high HP)--it comes from being overloaded with character-specific utility. Like, for comparison Wendy has ONE strong character-specific utility ability (summon Abigail for significant free AOE damage and aggro sponge until Abigail is banished, potentially a very long time if managed well), she pays for it with a very bad damage modifier, but it still comes out as a decent net positive compared to the strength of a "baseline" character like Wilson. Wicker has SIX strong character-specific utility abilities (free tier 1 science! summon lightning for free WX overload! summon birds for free morsels/feathers/Naughtiness! free pan flute! summon tentacles for significant free multi-target damage and aggro sponge that absolutely dwarfs Abigail's! grow plants instantly and thus render the cost in Cut Reeds of the previous four abilities meaningless!) and she doesn't pay for any of them with anything significant. Hardly anybody even notices her insomnia until Winter's Feast when she has (slightly) more trouble getting her gifts than the others; most people play every survivor as an insomniac anyway ^ _ ^

The good thing about utility abilities is that they add a very different kind of mechanic to a game and potentially interesting out-of-the-box solutions to problems. The bad thing about utility abilities is that the more of them you add, the more chaotic and broken the game becomes, particularly when you make them exclusive to one class/race/character. This was the issue with caster classes in early D&D, where every other level the clerics and wizards suddenly gained access to a dozen or more exploitable spells.

Honestly I think the healthiest way to deal with Wickerbottom would be to get rid of every book except for Applied Horticulture and maaaaaaaaaaaybe The End Is Nigh, but I know that'd peeve a lot of folks since all five of her books have become so iconic and central to her identity.

[Thieverpedia]

Requiring a Feather Pencil for Wickerbottom's books is an excellent enough suggestion alone, but plenty of the others could be viable.