Cascade control for valves, plate heat exchangers, and knock out pots

[MegaMappy]

I'm no chemical engineer, but I work in the oil and gas industry. I am very impressed by some of the creative ways people have overcome some of the challenges presented in the game, mainly when it comes to dealing with temperature. 

I would really like to see what people can do if given some more additional tools, such as Cascade control for valves, or a simplified version where the valve works as a block valve. So like the current valve, but you can set two parameters

1. You determine if the valve fails close or fails open. Which means that, when the valve loses power, it either slams closed (fails close) or fully opens (fails open. 

2. When the valve is powered, what opening %, or what flow it would move to.

This is is a poor man's PAID control I suppose. It would make keeping an exact setpoint difficult, but it should prevent situations where the temperature drifts from the setpoint because the gradient is off. 

Without getting to technical, a plate exchanger is a more efficient (thermally speaking) version of the tube exchanger, which is sort of what most people use in ONI right now, although with one fixed/batch medium. Right now heat transfer across the pipe seems very low, even when using wolframite, and you have to dedicate a pretty large area to get some decent cooling going on.

 

The knock out pot is something that removes liquid from a gas line. I the industry we use it in the steam line so that water doesn't goes into a part of the steam distribution system where it would pool and reduce heat transfer and cause corrosion eventually. In ONI I would be like a gas filter, but you can only select if the middle output is gas or liquid, and the other output would be the the one that you didn't chose for the middle one.

That's my two cents, I would be interested in knowing what you guys think.

[Fernir]

All your ideas are great would add fail lock for mechanised airlock.

Knock out pot would require piping system overhaul but would be great IMHO.

I am thinking about proposing logic and control layer system.

[azmod2000]

I would love a powered valve that can be used to turn on and off the flow of liquid or gas.  When I set up my food production I try to maintain ideal gas presssure with a gas sensor that powers on a fan.  This means that I have to run extra electrical wire and each fan and pipe system can only work for a single room.  A powered valve connected to the pressure sensor would make the system more efficient and way more expandable.

[Xuhybrid]

I'd like some kind of pipe monitor to report the pressure or temperature of the contents.

[caffeinated21]

5 hours ago, Xuhybrid said:

I'd like some kind of pipe monitor to report the pressure or temperature of the contents.

Its called your mouse

[Xuhybrid]

30 minutes ago, caffeinated21 said:

Its called your mouse

No ****. How does that help control any machines automatically?

[Kasuha]

On 25. 5. 2017 at 3:30 AM, MegaMappy said:

1. You determine if the valve fails close or fails open. Which means that, when the valve loses power, it either slams closed (fails close) or fully opens (fails open. 

2. When the valve is powered, what opening %, or what flow it would move to.

Valves are not powered in ONI. If you mean machinery such as filters, things stop if pipe gets full by default and it is possible to make emergency spills using bridges, preventing that happening.

On 25. 5. 2017 at 3:30 AM, MegaMappy said:

Without getting to technical, a plate exchanger is a more efficient (thermally speaking) version of the tube exchanger,

Okay, with very limited heat exchange between pipes and the environment, this is something that would work in the game. However, I think it would be probably easier to implement more rapid heat exchange with normal pipe as we also have insulated pipes for cases when we don't want that happening. Not mentioning abyssalite.

On 25. 5. 2017 at 3:30 AM, MegaMappy said:

The knock out pot is something that removes liquid from a gas line. I the industry we use it in the steam line so that water doesn't goes into a part of the steam distribution system where it would pool and reduce heat transfer and cause corrosion eventually. In ONI I would be like a gas filter, but you can only select if the middle output is gas or liquid, and the other output would be the the one that you didn't chose for the middle one.

ONI does not support state change heat. For in stance if a packet of liquid reaches freezing temperature, it changes to solid in single tick. ONI also does not support state change in pipes, so if a packet freezes or evaporates in a pipe, it breaks the pipe at that spot. I think your proposed machine does not have much use in such physics. What is rather needed is something that would keep packets away from state change temperatures.

[MegaMappy]

16 hours ago, Kasuha said:

Valves are not powered in ONI. If you mean machinery such as filters, things stop if pipe gets full by default and it is possible to make emergency spills using bridges, preventing that happening.

Sorry, I didn't make it very clear. I mean that I would like new valves that run on power. You are right that there are ways around it, and I made such a system to keep my main water supply around 20c but it is a lot more convoluted that in needs to be.  

16 hours ago, Kasuha said:

Okay, with very limited heat exchange between pipes and the environment, this is something that would work in the game. However, I think it would be probably easier to implement more rapid heat exchange with normal pipe as we also have insulated pipes for cases when we don't want that happening. Not mentioning abyssalite.

I agree, this is an easier implementation, if the developers plan on introducing more rapid heat exchange with normal pipes or add a material with very high thermal conductivity. The only thing that we would miss out on is space saving, as plate exchangers are considered compact. 

16 hours ago, Kasuha said:

ONI does not support state change heat. For in stance if a packet of liquid reaches freezing temperature, it changes to solid in single tick. ONI also does not support state change in pipes, so if a packet freezes or evaporates in a pipe, it breaks the pipe at that spot. I think your proposed machine does not have much use in such physics. What is rather needed is something that would keep packets away from state change temperatures.

So when I get a damage report for a pipe, it is based on the temperature value, not actual state change in the pipe? Thank you, that is good to know. I though that the damage was caused when the state changed, but now that you mention it, I have not seen steam generated around a hot water pipe, so this is not likely. 

[MegaMappy]

On 5/25/2017 at 6:27 PM, Fernir said:

All your ideas are great would add fail lock for mechanised airlock.

Knock out pot would require piping system overhaul but would be great IMHO.

I am thinking about proposing logic and control layer system.

Yes! a fail lock mechanised airlock is a great idea. You are right, the knock out pot it has been explained to me would require too much change to implement. 

 

A logic and control overlay would be fantastic, not as a necessity, but as a way to make more complex set up. 

[MegaMappy]

On 5/25/2017 at 10:41 PM, Xuhybrid said:

I'd like some kind of pipe monitor to report the pressure or temperature of the contents.

Yes, inline temperature, pressure, flow and level detectors are very common in the industry. there is already level detectors in the game, with the atmo and liquid pressure, that is taken care of. I would like the inline flow and temperature sensors if cascade control is implemented, because it would give granularity to the control system. Give me a console and let me introduce PID and lag values and I will die happy, but that is definitely asking too much.