Help figuring out 3-Door Pump interuptable

[Egosession]

Hay all!

I'm having some trouble figuring out how to make a typical 3-door pump interuptable so the doors stay in their last known position when the signal comes in. Currently the doors will all open when the signal changes (depending on the setup to an ether constant ON or OFF signal)

Here is the base 3-door pump design I took from Brothgar I think. But could have been someones elses design.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I m having issues to design the automation, the logic gates haven't click with me yet :/,I spend countless hours in debug mode trying to figure out how to do it and I have googled around aswell, but so far no luck. So I appriciate your help and insight.  Its probably something really obvious and easy... but I m just having a hard time wtih logic gates atm.

I can provide an example and my modified design. What I changed is, I added a AND gate between the first and the second door, so basically when the signal goes off, the first door is closed, to prevent back flow of the liquid or gases. Its the design at the bottom of the picture, the one on top to the left is the normal 3-door pump design:

As you can see on the picture above, I wanted to use hot liquid (for example from a leaky oil fissure that provides oil at a temp of ca 325°) to heat the steam underneath the steam turbine. The door pumps act as a conveyor belt that only moves forward when the liquid in the belt has dropped below a certain temperature (in this example its been set to "below 230°").

I basically wanted to design a system to move around very hot liquids and gases that can't be moved with a pump.

But now in the new colony, I'm having the same issue again, I need an interuptable 3-door pump, but my design just feels overly complicated and I feel like what I want can be accomplished way easier... I might be wrong though.. horrible wrong! so yeah

A picture without the automation layout:

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

Side note:

Why ONI doesn't allow us to build a pump that is able to withstand temperature up to 300° or higher is beyond me. I was really looking forward to the new materials, hoping we finally could build a pump out of ceramic, but sadly I was disappointed. I hope that it is something that the devs consider. I dont mind if its difficult and expensive to produce, but give us at least the option.. would be nice I really love this game though!!!

Thanks for your help or suggestions.

[Enno]

I'm not on my computer but I wanted to throw an idea in, sorry for the bad drawing.

I had no chance of actually trying it but I hope it works how you want it.

Spoiler

Hopefully good version

Flawed Version: (It would have opened the door if the door signal was off because off the XOR actually working)

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On the left is your door on the right your existing mechanism, the wire that would go to the door should be going to an XOR gate and then to the input to an AND gate (the output of which should loop back to the wire = creating a self holding state if the door was actually open).
With delay I mean the XOR need a delay for activating (forgot if that was Buffer or Filter). 

After you have the delay figured out you can just use the signals (red lines) on the next door.
You need a green box for each door as you want it to keep the state it has.

Also: Do not interupt the loop from your door mechanism, just let it run you just interupt the signal to the door => You don't have to worry about setting it up again.

 

Let me know if it worked, I'm curious.

[tzionut]

For the steam generator you don't need the door compressor to move the cold steam under the generator. Is more efficient to fill the top whit natural gas or helium and steam. the top gas will push down the steam and the generator will go until you finish to fill the batteries or  cool the heat source.

In both variants (whit or without compressors) you will lose steam so put an water line for generate more steam.

[AzeTheGreat]

2 hours ago, tzionut said:

For the steam generator you don't need the door compressor to move the cold steam under the generator. Is more efficient to fill the top whit natural gas or helium and steam. the top gas will push down the steam and the generator will go until you finish to fill the batteries or  cool the heat source.

In both variants (whit or without compressors) you will lose steam so put an water line for generate more steam.

That's a blatant exploit, while door pumps are debate-ably exploity since they make physical sense and are really just taking advantage of mechanics.  Also, that doesn't answer the question they asked.

Finally, with proper door pumps I've not seen gas deletion in steam turbines.

[tzionut]

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with proper door pumps I've not seen gas deletion in steam turbines.

Believe me. I tried the both version in the critter update MK1 ( i don't use debug mode) and also whit door compressor you lose steam. The version whit 2 gases exploit the inability for 2 gases to occupy a square, The compressor have a 0.1 second period when all the doors are opened. Also when the door closes not all the gas is moved aside.Same as you build  a tile, some gas is deleted. This is the actual mechanic of the game. When the devs, will change it, we won't have any debate about steam generators exploits.

Best regards.

[Enno]

So I tried it in the game and it works (after adding one more filter)

The filters on the holding part are set to the lowest time, as you can see the right side is completely untouched it just keeps on looping and I only cut off the connection to the door itself while saving the state.

I wish ONI had a transistor or a normal relay so we could work better on that stuff, that would cut out all the XOR and AND gate stuff I had to do (which is just there to cut the connection).

Automation Overlay:

Spoiler

The normal view:

Spoiler

 

[Egosession]

Thank you Enno for taking the time! Its fantastic!

Here is a screenshot with your solution:

Explaination for future ppl who stumble upon it ;):

Left is the normal 3-door pump cycle with the 3 doors directly on the signals. When off, all doors will stay open.

On the right we see the added solution from Enno,  3 times copied in a column. It will save the last state or reset depending on the atmo sensor for each door. In this version the cycle on the left stays always on, only the atmo sensor or whatever signal input you choose will stop the door pump from running. When the signal is off, the doors will stay in their last know position. Exactly what I asked for, hurray!!!!

All buffer and filters on the left are kept default (5s). Timing seems to work well with UNPOWERED doors.

All filters on the right are set to the lowest possible (0.1s)

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You know, I had to laugh when I saw your reply with the paint drawing. You are one of these ppl who can just put a circuit together in their head lol. I used to be able to do that with other logic stuff, but I just struggle with the mainstream logic gates. My background is more mechanical engineer, but from rc fpv model building and flying and from work building switching cabinets I picked up some stuff. But not enough I guess

Thanks again for your help, really appricate you took the time!!!

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Oh and thanks tzionut and Aze for their replies. I didnt know that you could exploit it with diffrent gases and fill the top. Thanks for that.

To get around gas deletion, I just add a pressure sensor and a valve to add more liquid when it falls under the max pressure.

Cheers!!!

[BlueLance]

Couldnt you have made it simpler using the gate that is on until the signal is reset? I cannot remember what the gate was called. 

16 hours ago, AzeTheGreat said:

That's a blatant exploit, while door pumps are debate-ably exploity since they make physical sense and are really just taking advantage of mechanics.  Also, that doesn't answer the question they asked.

Finally, with proper door pumps I've not seen gas deletion in steam turbines.

Also I agree about the exploit, butt he OP is covering 4 of the 5 tiles at the bottom which is also one, so i think the OP is open to it XD

Door pumps shouldnt delete gas unless you have too narrow a range for the doors closing so again i agree with you there. 

[Egosession]

you mean the memory toggle? I thought about it too, to be honest, I havent figured out how it works yet, and havent invested the time nether. So you could be absolutly right,

I m sure there are several ways to accomplish this with all sorts of ways. The above solution is a bit big But hey, it works lol

Some diffrent 3-door pump designs I found googling:

Sadly I cant find the thread anymore, its from a very big oil boiler for natural gas production. If stumble upon it, let me know.

The nice thing is, when off the doors will be in the closed position to prevent backflow and because the inner door is open, it acts , or could act as a insulator if there is no gas inside.

To get it to work you need to fiddle around with the filter timings.

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Link:

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I have some more, I try to add them here for completness sake.

 

[Enno]

2 hours ago, Egosession said:

Thank you Enno for taking the time! Its fantastic!

I'm glad, great job with the layout, looks very streamlined.

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You know, I had to laugh when I saw your reply with the paint drawing. You are one of these ppl who can just put a circuit together in their head lol. I used to be able to do that with other logic stuff, but I just struggle with the mainstream logic gates. My background is more mechanical engineer, but from rc fpv model building and flying and from work building switching cabinets I picked up some stuff. But not enough I guess Thanks again for your help, really appricate you took the time!!!

I saw your problem and coulnd't help not helping, for once I know something and was able to help.
I'm studying IT so this is something I like doing. 
You are welcome!

2 hours ago, BlueLance said:

Couldnt you have made it simpler using the gate that is on until the signal is reset? I cannot remember what the gate was called. 

I assume you mean the RS-FlipFlop / Memory Toggle. The issue is that you still need to cut the connection, this time on two wires which makes it just as crazy. I could be completely wrong, but I really tried to find a better solution using the Memory toggle.
There is definitely a need for a Relay which would make all of this so much easier. 

Here is a bad sketch I made

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As you can see this part would be perfect.

Here I Quote Egosession:

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you mean the memory toggle? I thought about it too, to be honest, I havent figured out how it works yet, and havent invested the time nether. So you could be absolutly right,

The Memory Toggle is rather simple:

Spoiler

That means that everytime there is no signal at all nothing happens (This would be what is needed for your problem, so you need to cut both wires)
When there is a signal on "R" the output will always be "Inaktive"
When there is a signal on "S" the output will always be "Aktive"