Concern about paywalls

[Curry MAMA]

I tested how Pacu breeding works in a completely vanilla ONI with all DLCs turned off.

Without taming, Pacu have a reproductive rate of only 7%/cycle, meaning it takes 15 cycles to lay eggs (unless overcrowded). Pacu happiness doesn't affect this, so the presence or absence of DLCs is irrelevant (i.e., fair).

When tamed, Pacu's base reproductive rate remains 7%/cycle, but they receive a 15%/cycle buff for every +1 happiness.

Giving Pacu Treat increased their reproductive rate by +1 happiness to 22%/cycle. At this state, a Pacu can be expected to lay 4 eggs in its lifetime. Quite modest, but not impossible to breed.

With Pacu Treat + Water Fort (+2 happiness), the reproductive rate reaches 37%/cycle. The expected number of eggs is roughly double, but the actual number will be slightly less due to the time spent without Water Fort.

In any case, the number of seeds needed to produce Pacu Treat is the main issue, so a large farm and a well-trained farming specialist are necessary.

It's not that you can't pursue greater efficiency in vanilla; you can add an Aquatic Critter Fountain. Giving Brackene to Pacu with this grants a +5 happiness bonus. Pacu Treat + Water Fort + Aquatic Critter Fountain (Brackene) results in a +7 happiness bonus and a 112%/cycle fertility rate. While the actual efficiency isn't that high, you can expect spawning almost every cycle.

Now, the challenges at this stage are the need for glass to build the Aquatic Critter Fountain and how to produce Brackene. In vanilla, this involves raising Gassy Moos or focusing on specific crops. Even so, it's not impossible, and I think it's quite achievable by the mid-game.

Once you can give Brackene, you might not even need to give Pacu Treat anymore. As I mentioned before, in practice, grooming a Pacu you want to breed is far too time-consuming. Simply expressing Brackene is much more efficient, as you can nurse four Pacu in one go.

The importance of the aquiatic grooming station added via TAPP is much less than you might think.

9 hours ago, cheeees said:

Some of the things the DLC unlocks (for now) give anyone that bought it an advantage over someone that didn't, in different ways.

I bought the DLC. I'm happy it exists. I like it. And I like the game.

I just feel a bit weirded out by the fact that my decision to buy the DLC is being influenced by:

• New mechanics that have retrocompatibility getting locked (swimming, being a new movement option)
• Quality of life additions (mini-fridge)
• Decor: Glass walls (don't have much to say about those, other than question their exclusivity)
• Powercreeping (swimming skill tier 1 doubles dupes breath; pacu are inferior withouth the +5 happiness the groom buff gives, jawbos too; jelly ceiling lamps outclass ceiling lights and sun lamps)

After all this is a single player game, no one here is going use an advatage againt another since there is no competition.
There still is an advatage there and that's what I want to point out.

I just question why some things had to be locked behind a paywall.

Well, maybe I'm just misunderstanding something, but I really don't get what the problem is.

Isn't that what DLC is supposed to be for?

The purpose is to gain some kind of advantage or convenience by paying money, right?

If nothing changes whether you pay or not, then who would buy DLC (besides die-hard Klei fans. Of course, I'm one of them).

It's true that the aquatic creatures were updated in this update, and the efficiency of raising Pacu has decreased, but that's part of Klei's balance adjustments, and Pacu are still raiseable and an excellent food source.

(Rather, I think we should be lamenting the fact that we can no longer obtain calcium from eggs, but I'll leave that aside as it's getting off-topic.)

Even if it's not exactly the same as before, couldn't we see it as something that can be managed with a little ingenuity, and that actually makes the game more challenging and rewarding?

[MinhPham]

You didn't do the seed math .... sustainable seeds source can only come from either sleet wheat or nosh bean but nosh bean didn't available on all asteroids so only sleet wheat available, each seed worth 400kcal and the most basic cooked form is +2 quality so ... if you get less than that from feeding a pacu it's a bad investment. Only with bracken from moos you can get more from what you feed them, but at that point you have already unlocked pretty much the entire tech tree, dealt with meteors and i don't know what else to do to enter the "late" game state.

Pacu is not the only food source and the base game is still very playable. I don't mind if new features are behind a DLC but i do mind when they moving features into DLC ...

And, i still want to play my base game without easy mode DLC stuffs but when i added the aquatic pack via DLC scramble my dupes now have swimming skills and i can build all other aquatic stuffs beside the grooming station so that's a no go (also the printer pod now offer aquatic stuffs too). Doesn't matter if you have the DLC or not, you just can't have DLC stuffs without playing DLC. And pacu is still not practically playable in the base game because the moment you can fully sustainable ranching them with a net gain is very very late.

(maybe i'll stop complaining if they allow me to make pacu treats from algea :D)

Edited June 15 by MinhPham

[BLACKBERREST3]

I've bought all the dlc and I haven't even gotten to everything that's offered from it yet. I don't mind paying to keep this game alive and supported. They still need to fix the hundreds of bugs still left so shut up and take my money KLEI XD

[cheeees]

Okay so, the topic got a little off the rails. So just wanna leave a post trying to be as clear as possible.

What I intended was to point out that the DLC locks some things that give and advatage and some that don't really seem to need the exclusivity of being part of the DLC.

LIke: "Doesn't someone think is weird this is unlocked with the DLC?", "Doesn't this give an advatage to those that bought the DLC?", "Why should this be locked behind the DLC?"

For now doesn't seem that many care about the other points other than the aquatic grooming station and pacu.

I would like if people questioned the same, and even if they disagree at least I can get a point of view.

Questions like:

• Why should the aquatic grooming station be locked behind a paywall?
  Doesn't that make players with the DLC get a better version of pacu and jawbos? (because jawbos have not been mentioned).
• Why is swimming DLC exclusive?
  Anyone could benefit from duplicants that can swim, in many asteroids, the swimming skills will help the exploration, building, and getting a new movement option is always great. Think about how many times duplicants had to go in a liquid pool, go out to recover breath, go in, go out to finish a task. With the swimming skills the duplicants will move faster, and if they need to replenish the breath they can just swim up instead of having to walk or/and having to use ladders.
• Aren't players with the DLC getting better duplicants?
  Swim skill tier 1 doubles duplicants breath.
• Players with the DLC get an advatage at producing light.
  Jelly ceiling lamps outclass sunlamps and regular ceiling lights.
• Why would some buildings be locked behind the DLC if they don't have an exclusive use with the DLC materials/plants/critters?
  The mini-fridge is a building that realistically, doesn't give that much of an advatage, it mostly reduces space used, and the benefits of that are mostly only for rocket interiors, still, it could be clasified as a quality of life addition, and it's locked behind the DLC.
  The glass background walls are mostly a decoration, the thing is the materials needed are not exclusive to the DLC.

All of those things, in my opinion should not be locked behind the DLC, anyone could benefit from getting access to them, and in the hipotetical case they were added to the base game, players that bought the DLC would not be at any type of disadvantage, and the players that didn't buy it, wouldn't be at a disadvantage.

Again, would like if people asked themselves those questions.

There is also the argument that "Since it's a DLC it's allright for it to lock some additions, if not what would be the point?".

Well first, yes that's basically a DLC, additions to the game, and companies decide what they end up adding in that DLC.

My point being, "Did the DLC really needed to be a paywall for some of the additions?".

The examples I gave are the additions I feel most certain that should not have been DLC exclusive. Since that is subjective, it's going to get a lot of different opinions.

The mini-fridge and glass walls can be left aside.

The aquatic grooming station, swimming, and jelly lights are an advantge exclusive to the DLC.
Frosty Planet Pack and Prehistoric Planet Pack don't feature the same advatages.

Those 3 are mostly the reason why I have mixed feelings about the DLC, they are a nice addition for any player to try, but got locked behind a paywall.

If some of you think those 3 are ok to be locked behind the DLC, ok your opinion.

If some of you think those 3 need to be locked behind a paywall, because "what would the point of the DLC be withouth them?".

The Marinea asteroids still exists. The starting biomes would still be there, the new materials would still be there. The DLC's critters, plants, biomes, would still be exclusive to the DLC. The new buildings like the sushi bar, vulcanizer, would still be part of the DLC. The unique progression of Marinea asteroids such as centering around tidal turbines, and exploring most of the map through swimming, would still be exclusive to the DLC.

And I think that's all I have to say. My conclusion from the comments is that a majority of the readers don't really mind the DLC giving an advatage.
So I guess I'll take it and leave it a that.

[MinhPham]

45 minutes ago, cheeees said:

Why should the aquatic grooming station be locked behind a paywall?

• Doesn't that make players with the DLC get a better version of pacu and jawbos? (because jawbos have not been mentioned).

Both DLC and based game shared the same code base so they will behave the same way, the aquatic grooming station required basic swimming so even if you were able to build them in base game you can't use them, unless they dropped the basic swimming requirement too, which might make the dlc gameplay much more easier than it already is.

45 minutes ago, cheeees said:

• Why is swimming DLC exclusive?
  Anyone could benefit from duplicants that can swim, in many asteroids, the swimming skills will help the exploration, building, and getting a new movement option is always great. Think about how many times duplicants had to go in a liquid pool, go out to recover breath, go in, go out to finish a task. With the swimming skills the duplicants will move faster, and if they need to replenish the breath they can just swim up instead of having to walk or/and having to use ladders.

Please ... keep it DLC exclusive, i don't want to see my dupes swimming in my waterfall lock, or magma pool (or wherever they shouldn't be in a normal base-game)... 

45 minutes ago, cheeees said:

And I think that's all I have to say. My conclusion from the comments is that a majority of the readers don't really mind the DLC giving an advatage.
So I guess I'll take it and leave it a that.

I had all the DLC and tried them a little bit but i like to play the base game more and considered DLC the easy mode of the game, so yes i believe you will have more advantage in the DLC and that's not a problem.

.......

As far as i know ONI was sold as a finished product, every DLC they made were an extension of the game so new things can be DLC exclusive or they can give us to the base-game as generous as then can. No body every will upset if the aquatic grooming station is DLC exclusive and it doesn't affect base-game pacu, but sadly it does. And it's mainly the thing why everyone is off-railed and fall into a pacu pool.

My only sad thing is they don't give an option to down-grade the game into the version before TAPP (yesterday), but they DO now so i will shut up and you will hear no more complain from me  

Edited June 15 by MinhPham

[KittenIsAGeek]

On 6/13/2026 at 3:21 PM, Neat Modding said:

This is the reason you can no longer own a car because it needs a server and will not let you turn on the heated seats or even start if manufacturer goes out of business, or a phone that goes out of support and you cannot fix it or use an alternate operating system on it, why farmers can no longer fix their gear, why your car sells your data to insurance companies, why your TV sells your watching habits by capturing what you do on it, why games just stop working because publishers turn down the servers.

Ultimately society lets capitalism to exist,

Except its not.. Capitalism that is.  All those problems you mentioned are because big companies lobbied to get laws put into effect that protect them from the consumer.  Want to install a new battery in your Ford truck?  Better take it to the dealer because its now a "safety feature" regulated by a computer in the truck.  If you try to sue them, they'll point to the law that allows them to dictate who or who can not resolve "safety feature" issues.  If it was purely capitalism, then the consumer would be able to take Ford to court and win on the grounds that they have the right to repair the item they purchased.  Instead, the corporations have changed the laws and can now say, "Well, they're not really buying the VEHICLE, they're buying the right to USE the vehicle."  Or computer program. Or cellphone. Or whatever.  Its a Corporatocracy now, because the big corporations and companies have created laws designed to penalize the individual and to protect the big corporation.  If it was purely Capitalism, big banks would have gone out of business from their shady practices instead of getting bailed out by the government.  "Big Pharma" wouldn't be able to simultaneously claim their jab is "safe and effective" while hiding the research data results from the public for 75 years.  There are a number of other examples, but the short answer is that enshitification isn't because of capitalism, its because the corporations have altered the law to protect them from the repercussions of enshitification, which means it is now a corporatocracy.  You can't replace the battery in your Ford because to do so you'd have to bypass an electronic lock on the vehicle's software, which is illegal due to a consumer protection law originally intended to keep companies from hacking in to your computer.  Yeah.. a law to protect you from the corporations now protects the corporations from you.

[cheeees]

6 hours ago, MinhPham said:

Please ... keep it DLC exclusive, i don't want to see my dupes swimming in my waterfall lock, or magma pool (or wherever they shouldn't be in a normal base-game)... 

I genuinely don't get why would you NOT want swimming to be added to base game, duplicants won't swim unless you give them the swimming skill.
You can make them not swim by not giving them the skill.

[MinhPham]

15 minutes ago, cheeees said:

I genuinely don't get why would you NOT want swimming to be added to base game, duplicants won't swim unless you give them the swimming skill.
You can make them not swim by not giving them the skill.

I will give every single one of them the swimming skill because why not, and that's the problem so it's better for me to not have it at all .

Edited Monday at 06:23 PM by MinhPham

[cheeees]

2 hours ago, MinhPham said:

I will give every single one of them the swimming skill because why not, and that's the problem so it's better for me to not have it at all .

[Maxposting]

4 hours ago, KittenIsAGeek said:

There are a number of other examples, but the short answer is that enshitification isn't because of capitalism, its because the corporations have altered the law to protect them from the repercussions of enshitification

And how could they alter the state law that totally hasn't ever benefited them before? Surely it can't be because of the... massive wealth that they have that allows them to crumble any capitalist economy at the slightest threat of capital flight.

Klei isn't even a corporation. I have hopes the next patch or two will adress most issues with the game right now.

Edited Monday at 08:44 PM by Maxposting

[GluttonyMain]

On 6/15/2026 at 12:37 PM, cheeees said:

• Why is swimming DLC exclusive?
  Anyone could benefit from duplicants that can swim, in many asteroids, the swimming skills will help the exploration, building, and getting a new movement option is always great. Think about how many times duplicants had to go in a liquid pool, go out to recover breath, go in, go out to finish a task. With the swimming skills the duplicants will move faster, and if they need to replenish the breath they can just swim up instead of having to walk or/and having to use ladders.

You can say that about anything. Anyone could benefit from Flue Coral, should that also be added to base game? Thats silly, swimmign is a new mechanic that took klei some work to implement, its OK to ask for money for that effort.