The theming for the new shadow affinity is even worse than before.

[Ugur01]

Are a robot that carries items with a hook and a scanning drone—similar to Warbis armor—really the high-tech drones that the shadows provide us? They truly look like drones that should belong in the drone branch. If they were going to make such drones from the start, they should have put them in the Lunar path and given us minions similar to Shadow Clockworks for the Shadow path instead.

[OrangeNibble]

57 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I'm not talking about lore from outside of dst I'm talking about how these abilities manifested on other characters. Willow didn't start summoning shadow hands she became able to shoot fire(admittly still silly to me). Wormwood didn't start shooting energy spears he instead created new plant creatures and armor. Some people are claiming it made sense for Wx to just get shadowy magic unrelated to technology but how exactly? How does Wx randomly getting shadowy powers unrelated to any of his previous fuction fit more than him using the shadow plugins to become able to craft and harness these shadow drones?

What are you talking about? It obviously an effect of the shadow heart being inside the chassis? How is that strange? You put a literal heart of darkness inside your body: some shadow effects.

Regards another survivor, what about Walter? His affinity gives Woby direct lunar and shadow effects - and these Walter/Woby effects are *less* explained than WX's previous effects.

 

It would make sense for the affinity skill to unlock crafting.

It also makes sense for the affinity skill to unlock socketing in dark hearts (very cool) and those dark hearts creating an effect local to the body the dark heart is socket in. The old affinity was such a nice design 

What doesn't make sense is the current combination of these things. The skill unlocking socketing dark hearts which unlock crafting.

 

 

[Lord-King-Bear]

That’s because yall yap too much lol the old way could of been made better but yall throw around the word theming too much 

Edited yesterday at 04:16 PM by Lord-King-Bear

[Jussatoon]

Just now, Lord-King-Bear said:

That’s because yall yap too much lol the old way could get of been made better but yall throw around the word theming too much 

Real.

[Mysterious box]

28 minutes ago, OrangeNibble said:

What are you talking about? It obviously an effect of the shadow heart being inside the chassis? How is that strange? You put a literal heart of darkness inside your body: some shadow effects.

What this says is you feel Wx should gain magic because he put something mystical inside him but that have to do with Wx as a character how does this relate to him or his theme. Look no further than the lunar branch where he combines his knowledge of building robots with Wagstaffs idea of having gestalts pilot machines it's a perfect blend that represents him as a character. Him installing a shadow object and lucking his way into random shadow powers doesn't represent him in any way shape or form.

32 minutes ago, OrangeNibble said:

Regards another survivor, what about Walter? His affinity gives Woby direct lunar and shadow effects - and these Walter/Woby effects are *less* explained than WX's previous effects.

Woby as a character is represented by her transformation and how she changes is in line with how other constant mobs change like merms or other corrupted mobs we don't get the how this is true but nothing about her experiencing these changes goes against the nature of the character unlike Wx.

36 minutes ago, OrangeNibble said:

It also makes sense for the affinity skill to unlock socketing in dark hearts (very cool) and those dark hearts creating an effect local to the body the dark heart is socket in. The old affinity was such a nice design

I'd disagree the old affinity was more convenient but it's design just didn't make sense beyond the idea that it's magic don't question it. Which is weird for a character who was more into science and still is more on the scientific side of things even now. On the lunar side of things he's using what he learned watching Wagstaff and improving on it. On the old shadow side he's just inserting random shadow items and gaining new powers on the current one he's gaining new knowledge via the shadow items he's placing within himself and making new creations with that knowledge.

[Jussatoon]

37 minutes ago, Jussatoon said:

Real.

I mean seriously, everyone is an expert all of the sudden of how the game's lore and mechanics should work.

What's in-character for a survivor?

What themes do the characters represent?

How do the powers of shadow and lunar, as well as technology, function in the world?

If anyone has a final say on any of these aspects, I expect them to be the very ones who created them in the first place. 

[OrangeNibble]

11 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

What this says is you feel Wx should gain magic because he put something mystical inside him but that have to do with Wx as a character how does this relate to him or his theme. Look no further than the lunar branch where he combines his knowledge of building robots with Wagstaffs idea of having gestalts pilot machines it's a perfect blend that represents him as a character. Him installing a shadow object and lucking his way into random shadow powers doesn't represent him in any way shape or form.

Woby as a character is represented by her transformation and how she changes is in line with how other constant mobs change like merms or other corrupted mobs we don't get the how this is true but nothing about her experiencing these changes goes against the nature of the character unlike Wx.

I'd disagree the old affinity was more convenient but it's design just didn't make sense beyond the idea that it's magic don't question it. Which is weird for a character who was more into science and still is more on the scientific side of things even now. On the lunar side of things he's using what he learned watching Wagstaff and improving on it. On the old shadow side he's just inserting random shadow items and gaining new powers on the current one he's gaining new knowledge via the shadow items he's placing within himself and making new creations with that knowledge.

WX is a robot without a heart. No other survivor lacks a heart. No other survivor could socket a literal shadow heart into themselves. It was great. Socketing the heart creates shadowy effects. Like what has is that not amazingly in character? I don't get you at all. WX is using their knowledge to combine shadow artifacts into their own body. That is where they are using their knowledge. They are not 'lucking into random shadow powers.' And magic is science in the constant... honestly... you craft shadow magic items at a "Ancient Pseudoscience Station."

Regardless, fundamentally *crafting* completely-non-shadowy drones feel bad and off. The old design was elegant, and seemed 90+% of the way there. The new design is a mess. Can we please just revert to the good design and polish it. These drone-obsessed randos who hate the idea of mysterious shadow magic just need a drone-styled visual effect, and then we can keep the nice mechanics and solid design of the original affinity.

Edited yesterday at 02:55 AM by OrangeNibble

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, OrangeNibble said:

WX is a robot without a heart. No other survivor lacks a heart. No other survivor could socket a literal shadow heart into themselves. It was great.

Woodlegs lacks legs does this mean we would put shadow legs on him were he in dst?

1 hour ago, OrangeNibble said:

Like what has is that not amazingly in character? 

Like litterally everything? You are saying he has no heart therefore he put one in but that's not a character trait that's an action one that's actually opposite to what he did last time.

1 hour ago, OrangeNibble said:

I don't get you at all. WX is using their knowledge to combine shadow artifacts into their own body. That is where they are using their knowledge. They are not 'lucking into random shadow powers.' And magic is science in the constant...

Except he didn't use his knowledge at all he just plugged it into where he ripped out the previous heart... in the current version he gains knowledge from this action but in the previous one what he did was the equivalent of Wurt feeding merms moon shards which is actually really silly for scientist to do when you think about it.

1 hour ago, OrangeNibble said:

And magic is science in the constant... honestly... you craft shadow magic items at a "Ancient Pseudoscience Station."

So uh about that...

"Pseudoscience is a collection of beliefs, practices, or theories mistakenly regarded as scientific, despite lacking evidence, failing to follow the scientific method, or refusing to be tested. It masquerades as science to gain legitimacy, often relying on confirmation bias and untestable claims."

1 hour ago, OrangeNibble said:

Regardless, fundamentally *crafting* completely-non-shadowy drones feel bad and off. The old design was elegant, and seemed 90+% of the way there. The new design is a mess. Can we please just revert to the good design and polish it. These drone-obsessed randos who hate the idea of mysterious shadow magic just need a drone-styled visual effect, and then we can keep the nice mechanics and solid design of the original affinity.

The old design was nonsensical in relation to the character it was simplistic but that was the only advantage. It feels like you guys are just more obsessed with how simple and easy it was to use over caring about it fitting or making sense. The new drones can easily be altered art wise to have a deeper shadow influenced design we've already got shadow skins for his other drones so it's not like it'd be hard to do rather than grasping at straws trying to make shadow magic Wx make sense despite it being in stark contridiction to everything else on the character.

Everything had a scientific basis on Wx even the lunar side. Then you reach the old shadow Wx and suddenly it's "You're a Wizard Harry!"

Edited yesterday at 04:18 AM by Mysterious box

[OrangeNibble]

35 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Woodlegs lacks legs does this mean we would put shadow legs on him were he in dst?

Like litterally everything? You are saying he has no heart therefore he put one in but that's not a character trait that's an action one that's actually opposite to what he did last time.

Except he didn't use his knowledge at all he just plugged it into where he ripped out the previous heart... in the current version he gains knowledge from this action but in the previous one what he did was the equivalent of Wurt feeding merms moon shards which is actually really silly for scientist to do when you think about it.

So uh about that...

"Pseudoscience is a collection of beliefs, practices, or theories mistakenly regarded as scientific, despite lacking evidence, failing to follow the scientific method, or refusing to be tested. It masquerades as science to gain legitimacy, often relying on confirmation bias and untestable claims."

The old design was nonsensical in relation to the character it was simplistic but that was the only advantage. It feels like you guys are just more obsessed with how simple and easy it was to use over caring about it fitting or making sense. The new drones can easily be altered art wise to have a deeper shadow influenced design we've already got shadow skins for his other drones so it's not like it'd be hard to do rather than grasping at straws trying to make shadow magic Wx make sense despite it being in stark contridiction to everything else on the character.

Everything had a scientific basis on Wx even the lunar side. Then you reach the old shadow Wx and suddenly it's "You're a Wizard Harry!"

You have a very strange idea of what science is. There is a huge amount of trial and error and intuition in science. Newton (one of the greatest scientists to ever live) famously believed in alchemy. And as the famous quote by Sci-fi author Arthur C. Clarke articulates, "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." What do you think science is? Science is just (an approach to) studying the laws of nature. If shadow magic existed then studying and developing shadow magic would just be a branch of science...

WX socket in a heart would be some mad science. You draw strange lines. 

Edited yesterday at 04:50 AM by OrangeNibble

[KINOTAKO]

This topic isn't really worth debating. Bringing real-world science or concepts into a video game is completely irrelevant to the actual gameplay. Claiming that they should be adapted is nothing but pure speculation on your part. Ultimately, it comes down to personal preference. And it's perfectly fine for people to have different tastes, right?

[OrangeNibble]

23 minutes ago, KINOTAKO said:

This topic isn't really worth debating. Bringing real-world science or concepts into a video game is completely irrelevant to the actual gameplay. Claiming that they should be adapted is nothing but pure speculation on your part. Ultimately, it comes down to personal preference. And it's perfectly fine for people to have different tastes, right?

In terms of preference, it seems like most people are saying they preferred the old affinity. It think there are tones of reason why: better theme, better mechanics, better gameplay, better cohesion, better balance.

I am also fine with people debating preference. Something can feel intuitive or instead immersion breaking, and it is worth articulating why so as to iterate to achieve the best design. For me, the big thing I dislike about the mechanics of the new affinity is the socketing in of items to a body unlocking a crafting recipe. It is a needless level of indirection and feels very weird. It feels fiddly. I also dislike the splitting into two of the progressions (fuel vs heart). Everyone, almost without exception, seems to dislike the balance/gameplay of the drones being ineffective and temporary. Most people seem to dislike the fact you need to craft the drones. Some people dislike the visual effects (complaining that now, while it is coded as robotic, there is zero shadowyiness to the new drones).

I have repeatedly said I would be happy with the old affinity with the visual's changed so that rather than a shadow whip and a shadow hand, it was shadowy mini-robots that sprung from WX. A lot of people seem to like this idea / have independently suggested it (e.g., the OP of this thread!). This change seems like it should satisfy players like Mysterious Box who desire a more robotic/ "scientific" feel, while keeping the overall (far) superior design. Mysterious Box hasn't engaged at all on that point. Instead they have argued extensively about what constitutes science.

I am pushing back against this rather odd fixation on what is and isn't science. And I think if we are debating along those lines, then the real world is the reference point for what the term 'science' means.

Edited yesterday at 05:27 AM by OrangeNibble

[NotGabriel]

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

Woodlegs lacks legs does this mean we would put shadow legs on him were he in dst?

You think that’s a gotcha but that sounds funny as hell for an affinity.

Woodleg’s ship is called the Sea Legs, shadow Woodlegs can summon a shadow version of his beloved vessel that can be used at land and sea. Nautical combat can be wherever you want it to be!

[Mysterious box]

7 hours ago, OrangeNibble said:

You have a very strange idea of what science is. There is a huge amount of trial and error and intuition in science. Newton (one of the greatest scientists to ever live) famously believed in alchemy. And as the famous quote by Sci-fi author Arthur C. Clarke articulates, "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." What do you think science is? Science is just (an approach to) studying the laws of nature. If shadow magic existed then studying and developing shadow magic would just be a branch of science...

WX socket in a heart would be some mad science. You draw strange lines. 

Belief and facts are different things I can believe humans can fly without the aid of anything but their own will and then make various tests based on that belief that doesn't make that science and no Maxwell is not a scientist. There's cases where people have combined magic and science as well as science and mystical items in dst but that doesn't exclusively make it science.

That being said I think we should probably end this here or at least I will as I don't think this is going anywhere.

[OrangeNibble]

1 minute ago, Mysterious box said:

Belief and facts are different things I can believe humans can fly without the aid of anything but their own will and then make various tests based on that belief that doesn't make that science

Having a hypothesis and then systematically testing it literally would be science... lol. So funny... It would be weird and likely unsuccessful, but yes, science.

You realize all things we hold as true now (established scientific fact) had to be discovered first, right? Facts like the earth revolves around the sun used to be considered moronic, moronic heresy. Science is a method for truth gathering; it is not a synonym for truth.

To return to the WX discussion, I think you just want a tech/robotic feel, is that right?

[Mr Giggio]

Not only I agree with OP but also Vex was in a way better state last version with the whip animation, I would say perfect even but people was yapping about running from the theme and *sigh* here we are.

[Reddddd]

17 hours ago, Tarnishedmax said:

The old shadow affinity just needed some extra polish to properly sell the "shadow infused automaton" thing, we have seen automatons get corrupted by shadows before, its not a new thing and i dont understand how plugging in a shadow atrium wouldn't give them some shadowy powers, drones feel too out of nowhere and "forced" i guess? like they are a robot so they MUST have drones instead of thinking logically, what part of the drones scream "shadow affinity" besides the shadow vfx around them? what does Charlie have to do with drones, what is the logic behind inserting certain shadows materials into your robotic system and suddenly gaining the ability to craft specific drones? None of it makes sense and it genuinely makes me really sad seeing Klei give up in making Wx some kind of corrupted shadow automaton.

Both of these drones look like any regular old machine without the shadowy effect around them, nothing in this affinity screams "Im shadow aligned, i make deals with the shadow queen herself and im plugging the heart of all evil in my system" besides the old leftovers like shadow mimics or tendrils.

These drones feel like they should have been a thing in the "Drones" section of the tree, not locked behind an alignment.

I dont think the old shadow affinity fitted wx-78 in anyway or made him any fair to have such strong mid game power, but the current one doesnt seems like an affinity at all, those drones should be their own normal skills (and reduce a little the useless chassis ones, perhaps?) 

Inserting a shadow thing in your body doesnt make sense at all, getting shadow roots doesnt make sense and unlocking drones by inserting shadow thing in your body makes even less sense.

[NotGabriel]

13 minutes ago, Reddddd said:

Inserting a shadow thing in your body doesnt make sense at all, getting shadow roots doesnt make sense and unlocking drones by inserting shadow thing in your body makes even less sense.

Ah yes because Don’t Starve is the pinnacle of making sense and only uses the most realistic logic for its mechanics.

be fr chat

[Jussatoon]

20 minutes ago, NotGabriel said:

Ah yes because Don’t Starve is the pinnacle of making sense and only uses the most realistic logic for its mechanics.

be fr chat

People are unironically forgetting the type of game they're playing these days. 

[Dr.Webber]

I’m sure the idea was to turn the shadow atrium into a twisted reflection of the empathy module and the normal design outside of the shadow effect it’s supposed to mirror the fact that the possessed chassises just look like regular WX’s except the Lunar effect 

but ya it definitely could be better 

[Jussatoon]

25 minutes ago, Dr.Webber said:

I’m sure the idea was to turn the shadow atrium into a twisted reflection of the empathy module

I guess that detail wasn't clear enough to most people, because it apparently wasn't robotic enough. 

[doritosdamafia]

11 minutes ago, Jussatoon said:

I guess that detail wasn't clear enough to most people, because it apparently wasn't robotic enough. 

which is funny because wx haves interactions saying how impressive the evil in the shadow/possesse atrium is

[Dr.Webber]

16 minutes ago, Jussatoon said:

I guess that detail wasn't clear enough to most people, because it apparently wasn't robotic enough. 

I mean to be fair just having a damage buff isn’t really denoting of any version of the empathy module so creating something with a description about understanding your enemy with exploit in the name and scan your enemy is more denoting of that also despite what op said the original wasn’t that of a corrupted robot like the broken and shadow clock works it just gave WX boring abilities completely unrelated to them, except for maybe the mimic to use ability due to the fact that WX clearly uses there circuits to mimic certain desirable features of the organics around them at least now it’s done a way that makes sense for that character

[Jussatoon]

40 minutes ago, doritosdamafia said:

which is funny because wx haves interactions saying how impressive the evil in the shadow/possesse atrium is

I know people often see WX as canonically lunar-aligned due to how vocal they are about it, but there are many shadow-related quotes expressing their love for being evil, so I think both alignment probabilities are equal in that regard. 

[leo920101]

On 4/27/2026 at 4:38 AM, Tarnishedmax said:

If I had the choice, I'd really rather not see these two drones—not in a game, and definitely not as art.

[Reddddd]

On 4/27/2026 at 11:39 AM, NotGabriel said:

Ah yes because Don’t Starve is the pinnacle of making sense and only uses the most realistic logic for its mechanics.

be fr chat

The scientist has science related skills, the arsonist has arson related skills and even in solo ds willow had fire magic, the bodybuilder has strenght related skills... the list just goes on... how is this "reply" any related to wx78 shadow affinity not making sense to his character.