Rebalancing and nerf wx - 78, please

[Lev12390]

10 часов назад Кино сказал:

Одна из самых забавных вещей, которые я читал об этой игре за последнее время, спасибо.

You're welcome—we're all clowns on the internet. I'm glad I could entertain someone.  
I don't consider my opinion absolutely correct or objective; that's why it's *my opinion*.  

Still, I was pretty heated about this beta yesterday. I thought WX‑78 deserved a better (more balanced) skill tree.  
I just hope we get a new boss that poses a challenge even for good players—then maybe I'll see WX‑78 differently.  
But right now, there's simply nothing that provides a challenge for him.

[Lev12390]

17 часов назад Нарреатор сказал:

Черт возьми, ты сумасшедший. Я понимаю, что он сильный и его нужно убавить, но это идиотизм. Кроме того, никто не перерабатывает все дерево с нуля, очевидно, что на его изготовление ушло много усилий. И многие навыки даже не так сильны.

Actually, to make this skill tree at least somewhat playable, you just need to reduce the number of circuit slots from 21 to 9 at most, and then it might at least somewhat fit into the balance.

[DaAndez]

17 hours ago, hhhhddh said:

200/200/200 Wolfgang with 2x dmg of is not TOO STRONG but 600/100/100 WX is strong enough to make you quit, haha, funny.

Yeah but it is Wolfgang's only perk having big damage and stats. But WX Can have HUGE electro and splash damage (by electro circuit), having abnormal HP, Teleport around the world like Winona, Having infinite inventory by new circuit and air drops, Having infinite light source near your base that consumes literally nothing (plus it can heat or cool you down whatever you like to do with it) And many more buffs at the same time. All you need is just plug one circuit and place another. 

[Jakepeng99]

11 hours ago, WendyHater9000 said:

The only op part of wx right now is his survivability. He got 480 health with 2hardy and 1bean booster while being able to get 2nd chance when electric is full. Also able to interrupt combo attack.

But his mobility is worse than wortox, Walter and even Wanda.

Aggressive play is worse than Wolfgang, Wanda, Maxwell, Willow, Wigfrid, Wendy.

He’s just a plain 1.0 multiplier character that can’t even start moonstorm in first autumn. 

Your topic make me wonder if you have really finished the game lmao.

Game isnt about speedrunning/rushing. Start moonstorm is first Autumn really?

[WendyHater9000]

22 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Game isnt about speedrunning/rushing. Start moonstorm is first Autumn really?

Yes this game is not about speedrunning, but it's a good indicator if a chracter is op imo.

[Jakepeng99]

12 minutes ago, WendyHater9000 said:

Yes this game is not about speedrunning, but it's a good indicator if a chracter is op imo.

Speedrunning doesnt decide that. It’s not.

[YouKnowWho142]

4 hours ago, WendyHater9000 said:

Yes this game is not about speedrunning, but it's a good indicator if a chracter is op imo.

Wilson is uniquely suited to start moonstorm early since he can skip the moonstone event. That does NOT mean he’s op. This does nothing to determine the strength of a character.

[Kvetevk]

7 hours ago, Lev12390 said:

all the characters with skill trees were roughly on the same power level (Wilson aside).

As a Wilson main, this makes me sad, but it is the truth 

[hhhhddh]

7 hours ago, Lev12390 said:

I never liked Wolfgang and was always reluctant to play with him in a team, but Wolfgang only had damage—WX-78 literally has everything, from immortality to incredible damage close to Wolfgang’s values.
我从来都不喜欢沃尔夫冈，也一直不愿意和他组队，但沃尔夫冈只有伤害输出——WX-78 却拥有一切，从不死之身到接近沃尔夫冈数值的惊人伤害。

You clearly have few understanding the difference between continuous 2x dmg and 100 dmg per 10 hit during a BOSS fight, as you take "not a single boss can match his power" as your argument. Do you notice Wolfgang with a hambat would deal 100+ dmg with 1 hit, and it takes 10 hit for WX to trigger? WX just harder to die than other. New WX good at fight Bee Queen, but not any better dealing with other bosses, unless you are the kind player who just stand there and press F.

There's my opinion: WX-78 is always a character with high QOL, but not so good at fight. Current skill tree not against this design. With the skill tree they are better at explore, they are better at survive, they are better at transportation, they are better at travel(which they already good at). But they are NOT getting any unacceptable boost in fight. (The first version of Hardy Circuit does, but it have been nerf twice and now the  stat of armor is not that OP)

I think WX's skill tree still need some re-balance, but the general idea of it is good enough. You have the right to say your opinion, and if you really don't like the update you DO have the right to quit. But shouting:"If klei don't nerf it I'll quit!" as a threat is just childish.

1 minute ago, hhhhddh said:

Current skill tree not against this design.

BTW I assume Gamma ones will not against the design, or just provide planar damage/defence with after-CC-or-FW materials. But I would rather see some Functional Circuits  than just stat enhancements.

Spoiler: there're 4 unimplemented Gamma Circuits in code already(with only name and scan target):

Spoiler

1. Screech, scan naked mole bat  or mandrake

2. Rhythm, scan knight, damaged knight or YOTH knight

3. Digestion, scan catcoon, wx78_foodbrick related

4. Parasite, scan creatures wearing Void Masque

 

[Lev12390]

24 minutes ago, hhhhddh said:

You clearly have few understanding the difference between continuous 2x dmg and 100 dmg per 10 hit during a BOSS fight, as you take "not a single boss can match his power" as your argument. Do you notice Wolfgang with a hambat would deal 100+ dmg with 1 hit, and it takes 10 hit for WX to trigger? WX just harder to die than other. New WX good at fight Bee Queen, but not any better dealing with other bosses, unless you are the kind player who just stand there and press F.

There's my opinion: WX-78 is always a character with high QOL, but not so good at fight. Current skill tree not against this design. With the skill tree they are better at explore, they are better at survive, they are better at transportation, they are better at travel(which they already good at). But they are NOT getting any unacceptable boost in fight. (The first version of Hardy Circuit does, but it have been nerf twice and now the  stat of armor is not that OP)

I think WX's skill tree still need some re-balance, but the general idea of it is good enough. You have the right to say your opinion, and if you really don't like the update you DO have the right to quit. But shouting:"If klei don't nerf it I'll quit!" as a threat is just childish.

BTW I assume Gamma ones will not against the design, or just provide planar damage/defence with after-CC-or-FW materials. But I would rather see some Functional Circuits  than just stat enhancements.

Spoiler: there're 4 unimplemented Gamma Circuits in code already(with only name and scan target):

  Reveal hidden contents

1. Screech, scan naked mole bat  or mandrake

2. Rhythm, scan knight, damaged knight or YOTH knight

3. Digestion, scan catcoon, wx78_foodbrick related

4. Parasite, scan creatures wearing Void Masque

 

Well, like I said, I wrote it a bit hot-headed, but overall I haven’t changed my opinion. I just realized that some of my wording might have been wrong. I wasn’t threatening to quit—just thoughts. Honestly, the last few updates have been disappointing. Even with the shadow boomerang, I could tell the game was heading in the wrong direction. WX-78 just ended up being the final straw that made me a little salty.

As for damage—yes, his single-target damage isn’t as good as Wolfgang’s, but when it comes to groups of enemies: frog rain, bee queen, hounds, shadow pieces, etc.—his damage ends up being higher.

And even for single targets, he’s at least top 3, especially when tanking.

Gamma circuits themselves probably won’t be that strong, but the two upgrades for them in the skill tree scare me.

[AliceShiki]

5 hours ago, WendyHater9000 said:

Yes this game is not about speedrunning, but it's a good indicator if a chracter is op imo.

5 hours ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Speedrunning doesnt decide that. It’s not.

1 hour ago, YouKnowWho142 said:

Wilson is uniquely suited to start moonstorm early since he can skip the moonstone event. That does NOT mean he’s op. This does nothing to determine the strength of a character.

For what is worth, I actually agree with WendyHater9000... For as long as we're clear that they're referring to it as an "indicator", as in... Not proof of anything, it's simply an indicator.

The Wilson example is excellent at highlighting this. Wilson's Skill Tree makes him able to easily start early Moonstorm, but that definitely not a proof that he is OP or anything... Hence why the early Moonstorm was referred to as an Indicator, and not as proof.

As in... If a character is able to reliably clear all the requirements to start Moonstorm Event quickly, then they probably have something pretty strong that allows them to do so, and I think that's a valid indicator of general character power.

I do think it would be silly to treat it as a hard rule, but I do think it's a valid indicator to use as reference. It should be used in conjunction with other things to make a more nuanced analysis though, but I think it's valid nonetheless.

8 hours ago, Lev12390 said:

I never liked Wolfgang and was always reluctant to play with him in a team, but Wolfgang only had damage—WX-78 literally has everything, from immortality to incredible damage close to Wolfgang’s values.

Btw, just a heads up, there is a button on the bottom left of each post that is a "+", this allows you to easily quote multiple people at once, so you don't need to make 6 posts in a row to reply to everyone you want to.

[YouKnowWho142]

2 hours ago, Lev12390 said:

As for damage—yes, his single-target damage isn’t as good as Wolfgang’s, but when it comes to groups of enemies: frog rain, bee queen, hounds, shadow pieces, etc.—his damage ends up being higher.

And even for single targets, he’s at least top 3, especially when tanking.

What damage?

Their upgraded electric circuit is nowhere near as good at damage as you seem to think it is and it is the only damage related thing they have. Against single target, even if you are fully tanking, it's going to take an extremely long time to get that charged blast, enough to not even make it worth using in that scenario. Even in crowd control situations, needing to get hit that many times isn't really worth it when most other characters can take care of crowds without losing most of their hp. It's more of an emergency tool at that point.

WX's biggest weakness right now is the fact that they don't have any damage options, WX alongside Wilson and Wes are the only characters who basically have zero real tools or gimmicks in a combat scenario. The more you play, the more you realize how detrimental that is, and against bosses especially having the highest hp stat in the game with no way to deal consistent extra damage doesn't help and makes a lot of the bosses take a very long time to kill, resulting in more opportunities to take damage and making that health more necessary. 

Not only do I disagree with WX's single target dps being top 3, but I genuinely believe WX is bottom 3 in dps even with consideration of electrification circuits. They just have nothing going for them in combat, which I hope the gamma circuits/affinities help with somewhat since characters in modern DST with zero combat gimmicks result in super boring, resource intensive, drawn out fights especially in solo.

Edited March 25 by YouKnowWho142

[Mr Giggio]

2 hours ago, Lev12390 said:

 I wrote it a bit hot-headed

Dude it hasn't a single word on that post that can be taken seriously. If that's the way you think I'm sorry for you. Drop YouTube, go do a run with him then you come back.

[Random Guy000]

As someone who gave the beta WX some time by actually playing with them, I can say that there isn't really anything OP about the skill tree conceptually 

You get budget teleporting, budget storage solutions, and budget item transportation. All of this is just more QoL for the QoL focused character, and you don't even get them off rip like Wortox, though it's not as expensive to set up as Winona

There's definitely room for optimisation in my gameplay, but I'm not seeing anything game breaking. Fighting beequeen was a breeze, but we live in a world where Wendy exists, so that isn't really a standout feat

WX just does what they did before the skill tree, but better, which is kinda the point. Also playing them feels a lot more fun with the amount of options you get now. Tweaking the numbers on stat-buffing circuits won't be very hard, cmon

[NewGamePlus]

1 hour ago, Random Guy000 said:

As someone who gave the beta WX some time by actually playing with them, I can say that there isn't really anything OP about the skill tree conceptually 

You get budget teleporting, budget storage solutions, and budget item transportation. All of this is just more QoL for the QoL focused character, and you don't even get them off rip like Wortox, though it's not as expensive to set up as Winona

There's definitely room for optimisation in my gameplay, but I'm not seeing anything game breaking. Fighting beequeen was a breeze, but we live in a world where Wendy exists, so that isn't really a standout feat

WX just does what they did before the skill tree, but better, which is kinda the point. Also playing them feels a lot more fun with the amount of options you get now. Tweaking the numbers on stat-buffing circuits won't be very hard, cmon

I think this sums it up fairly well. If you look at the electric circuit in a vacuum against beequeen, it is quite good, though I don't think i'd go as far as to say OP. You still require plenty of marble suits and beekeeper hats, or some other combination of armors. The circuit really just enables WX to have a method to fight beequeen that isn't the panflute spam method, which personally, I think is a good thing.

This is if we look at the circuit in a vacuum though. Against other bosses Its not nearly reliable enough to build up charge like seen during the beequeen fight to output the same dps. This instead makes it more of a supplementary dmg during fights for a character with no intrinsic dmg multiplier. This is good design to me. it makes the player weigh in if they want to allocate their slots for alil bit extra damage or something else. 

There are other lesser threats you mentioned such as hounds and frog rain. Though I feel like investing into this circuit for those threats alone is maybe not a waste, but kind of expensive of one to make, especially given there are a plethora ways to deal with those obstacles in game already.

As for the Alpha circuits, I know its a hot take, but some combos seem like noob traps to me. I get you can have 3 hunger circuits and go very long without needing to eat, but do you really need to? I forget the numbers, but say its half a year without eating. At some point the game throws alot of food at you. Are you really just gonna waste all that food and spoil it all or wrap it all? You can! But like why? The only real time I'm in need of specific food is usually when trying to make alot of healing food, otherwise this seems like overkill. I will say though, in a multiplayer setting with like 4-6 players this could be useful. Maybe your world didn't gen with a killer bee biome and you have multiple wortox's. you can offset their needs with those circuits. I think again that's a decision the player has to weigh in when deciding their loadout. I think this is a good thing.
 

I understand the frustration of making the game too easy, but I feel like your voice should go to other avenues instead. I feel like us as players should be advocating for more difficult challenges to be added instead of keeping previous characters or content back from feeling more complete or fun. I want more seasonal threats, more puzzles like with the last archive update, and the occasional difficult boss to be added.

 

12 hours ago, Lev12390 said:

I don't consider my opinion absolutely correct or objective; that's why it's *my opinion*.  

 

 

On 3/24/2026 at 8:56 AM, Lev12390 said:

 The character ended up objectively uninteresting due to his strength, and I don’t want to play a game with such broken balance.

Not sure what to say here.

[Random Guy000]

54 minutes ago, NewGamePlus said:

This is if we look at the electric circuit in a vacuum though

Yeah, the circuit itself is still kinda cheeks, as it was before the rework. Giving it AoE just enables WX to have an easier time against a boss they really want to kill to get their character specific item crafted, which is kinda the point. It's designed as a bee queen solve

[Soul7k]

1 hour ago, Random Guy000 said:

Yeah, the circuit itself is still kinda cheeks, as it was before the rework. Giving it AoE just enables WX to have an easier time against a boss they really want to kill to get their character specific item crafted, which is kinda the point. It's designed as a bee queen solve

I agree. The circuit rewards bad habits and ends up costing more in resource for replacement, repairs, and healing. meanwhile Winona treating bee queen like a joke since her release 
 

5 hours ago, YouKnowWho142 said:

What damage?

*snip*

I am kind of hoping that gamma or their affinity ends up being a unique damage solution for WX, but at the same time making WX multibox would be cool too

Edited March 26 by Soul7k

[Lev12390]

5 hours ago, NewGamePlus said:

I think this sums it up fairly well. If you look at the electric circuit in a vacuum against beequeen, it is quite good, though I don't think i'd go as far as to say OP. You still require plenty of marble suits and beekeeper hats, or some other combination of armors. The circuit really just enables WX to have a method to fight beequeen that isn't the panflute spam method, which personally, I think is a good thing.

This is if we look at the circuit in a vacuum though. Against other bosses Its not nearly reliable enough to build up charge like seen during the beequeen fight to output the same dps. This instead makes it more of a supplementary dmg during fights for a character with no intrinsic dmg multiplier. This is good design to me. it makes the player weigh in if they want to allocate their slots for alil bit extra damage or something else. 

There are other lesser threats you mentioned such as hounds and frog rain. Though I feel like investing into this circuit for those threats alone is maybe not a waste, but kind of expensive of one to make, especially given there are a plethora ways to deal with those obstacles in game already.

As for the Alpha circuits, I know its a hot take, but some combos seem like noob traps to me. I get you can have 3 hunger circuits and go very long without needing to eat, but do you really need to? I forget the numbers, but say its half a year without eating. At some point the game throws alot of food at you. Are you really just gonna waste all that food and spoil it all or wrap it all? You can! But like why? The only real time I'm in need of specific food is usually when trying to make alot of healing food, otherwise this seems like overkill. I will say though, in a multiplayer setting with like 4-6 players this could be useful. Maybe your world didn't gen with a killer bee biome and you have multiple wortox's. you can offset their needs with those circuits. I think again that's a decision the player has to weigh in when deciding their loadout. I think this is a good thing.
 

I understand the frustration of making the game too easy, but I feel like your voice should go to other avenues instead. I feel like us as players should be advocating for more difficult challenges to be added instead of keeping previous characters or content back from feeling more complete or fun. I want more seasonal threats, more puzzles like with the last archive update, and the occasional difficult boss to be added.

 

 

Not sure what to say here.

Well, overall, if they add bosses no less strong to such a strong character, then I suppose that outcome would satisfy almost everyone, I’d like to believe that in the end that’s how it will be.

[WendyHater9000]

2 hours ago, Lev12390 said:

Well, overall, if they add bosses no less strong to such a strong character, then I suppose that outcome would satisfy almost everyone, I’d like to believe that in the end that’s how it will be.

Have you taken down cc, fw and cs b4?
Like I would love to ask which part make WX easier than Wolfgang/Wortox/Walter/Willow to take them down?

His electric don't work on them, only part of him superior to them is his health and speed, while those got 2.6x dmg/range attack/teleport

Edited March 26 by WendyHater9000