Skill tree tune-up

[Piekam]

Hello!

I will start this discussion with the fact that as a WX78 main, the more casual one, i can't say how happy i am to see WX78 getting the love it deserves... I know they were already a bit too op, but i just love em for the lore, the looks and stuff surrounding them in general.

That being said... I know what peoples thoughts are regarding the topic of skill trees, some love them, some hate them, so i wanted to write down some rather controversial ideas of mine here, so maybe we can all work things out, so everyone would be satisfied...

I myself am a fan of there being skill trees in the game, lots of play styles, different aproaches, overall the content you get is extended in a way, but-
Even tho im a more of a casuall fella, the one who prefers to explore at his own speed, i like me some challange... The addition of skill trees, while great overall, made me sad to realise that the stuff you unlocked in those trees, like skills after defeating end game bosses or other stuff, ISN'T reset... So you are here, playing the game, unlocking all of the insight to make you too strong for the next run in my opinion, or stuff that should have been in the reworks from the start... That's not fun for me but i could be in the wrong here-

My idea is simple. Insight should be acquired anew, every time you join a new world.

You survive how many days it takes to reach the max insight, then you spend it.
It just makes sense, the survivors adapt, they try to survive and THRIVE using what they learned in the Constant...
Even the skills people say should "be here from the start" would make sense that way... You start fresh, the character doesn't yet know what to do, small steps, first the stuff that makes the most sense to them, then the part where they experiment with the world and acquire new knowledge...

Even if it wouldn't make most sense due to lore or other stuff, it just would make sense gameplay wise.

Secondly, while i wanted to just put my idea here, that skills shouldn't be reset due to similiar reason as above, i think most people would hate that aproach... Picking poorly, or picking stuff for early game while you plan to hit that 1000 day mark on your world isn't ideal... BUT-

I wanted to suggest that the insights of allingment, where you pick a side SHOULD be permanent per save.

You pick a side, you made your mind, that's it, no do-overs.

That's it for now, i might add to this post later, cuz i had few more ideas but i forgot lel
Again, controversial a bit, they are just my thoughts, you can always disagree, point out what you like or don't like, lets have those ideas flowing.
DS is a great game, and we always were it's pillars on which the devs built it, so for that love for this game, lets make it the best for all of us,

Thank you and have a great day/night!

[lovegrooove]

This is how insight gain works. 

Once you load into a new server, you can always reset the skill tree. You can totally implement what you're proposing here, by spending the insight points after the appropriate interval. You gain your first insight on day 4, the next on day 7, then day 11, etc. 

I personally really like that the insight points are kept. But I know people that dislike the entire idea, and play without using them. 

The game gives everybody this choice, to use or not use whatever we prefer, and I find that pretty awesome. 

[Piekam]

2 hours ago, lovegrooove said:

This is how insight gain works. 

Once you load into a new server, you can always reset the skill tree. You can totally implement what you're proposing here, by spending the insight points after the appropriate interval. You gain your first insight on day 4, the next on day 7, then day 11, etc. 

I personally really like that the insight points are kept. But I know people that dislike the entire idea, and play without using them. 

The game gives everybody this choice, to use or not use whatever we prefer, and I find that pretty awesome. 

Yeah, i know, insights being kept is great for stuff like speedruns, or characters that feel boring without them from day 1, and while thats good you can probably see my point here, that it becomes too op for some of the characters, and the per-server stuff could give the game a challange too.

It could also be as a world setting, casual playstyle could have the "reset insight to 0" off on deffault, while normal or even nightmare could have this on, theres a lot of ways they could tweak it tbh to make it great for both sides, hmm

[DegenerateFurry]

Having insight be set to zero by default would ruin a lot of perks that are meant for the early-game. Woodie's hard hats and wooden canes, for example, become completely useless once you have a pig farm or an ordinary cane. Walter's Woby drying rack also falls off massively once you have actual drying racks at your base. None of those things take particularly long to do. It'd also make some characters a lot worse to play in the early-game and remove certain strategies as options, like doing the Shadow Pieces on night 1 as Weremoose Woodie (which'd not be nearly as viable without at least the charge-related perks). 

Having a world setting that you can turn on which sets Insight to zero would be okay, but that setting should not be on by default, that'd ruin the game on Klei servers.

[lovegrooove]

18 hours ago, Piekam said:

Yeah, i know, insights being kept is great for stuff like speedruns, or characters that feel boring without them from day 1, and while thats good you can probably see my point here, that it becomes too op for some of the characters, and the per-server stuff could give the game a challange too.

It could also be as a world setting, casual playstyle could have the "reset insight to 0" off on deffault, while normal or even nightmare could have this on, theres a lot of ways they could tweak it tbh to make it great for both sides, hmm

What I'm saying is, that nothing is stopping you from getting what you want here. 

Klei doesn't have to tweak anything for that. 

All that is missing is the little insight ping, when the day count is ready for the next point to spend. And I'm sure even that can be solved by making a mod. 

For an indie developer to show this much love to a game that is over a decade old, is a miracle. And seeing how the latest skill tree is coming along, I feel like they're spending their resources perfectly. 

[Sorceress2024]

What you want would have been a good system if skill trees were build around it

If skill trees were built around it, ideally you'd still start with 2-5 points, the amount of time to get points would have to be heavly reduced, and there would likely have to be alternate ways to get points such as killing certain bosses for the first time in that world

I do think it would have been better if skill trees were that way, but its too far along for it to be like that, although it could still be nice to have that as a world setting but then certain characters that relly on starting with a lot of skills wouldnt be picked in those worlds as often as in other worlds.

[Cheggf]

Skill trees being on a per world basis would be a huge improvement, but the way you acquire skill points would also need to change. AFKing for 70 days - 9 hours and 20 minutes - is very uninteractive and not at all rewarding. If, either in place of this passive gain or in addition to it, you got skill points for certain milestones, that would be good. Using a science machine, alchemy engine, prestihatitator, shadow manipulator, broken aspp, and repaired aspp for the first time could all award skill points. Killing certain enemies for the first time such as Deerclops, Spider Queen, Klaus, Werepig, etc, could award skill points. Fishing up a fish for the first time could award a skill point. Harvesting a plant from a farm plot for the first time could award a skill point.

If there was a variety of ways to earn skill points in a variety of different ways like this, then it would be fun to earn skill points. You could either naturally get them throughout your playthrough, or think about it like Pearl's list of quests. Which ones do I think would be easiest to rush through to get all the skill points I want the fastest? It would offer choice and tactics to acquiring the points, instead of them just automatically being maxed out when you join a server, or if you haven't played that character yet just slowly being earned over a period that's longer than an entire work day with nothing you do affecting the rate that they're earned. 

[Mr.Oshiro]

It is not an exaggeration to say that the current skill points allocation method has disrupted the original survival experience. Every time you join a new world, you gain full insight, which directly destroys the gradually accumulated processes, especially the Planar content.

Taking Willow’s skill tree as an example, after using all skill points, enter a brand new world and kill some creatures such as bees or spiders. You can then use Shadow Fire/Lunar Fire to kill freely. What? You told me to collect materials to make Ham Bat and Log Suit? Creating traps or using monsters to assist in battles? Why do I still do these things even though I can cause Planar damage on the first day? I can even skip making these things from beginning to end because I have had absolutely powerful abilities from the very beginning.The same goes for other characters.

I remember developers promised that content related to Planar would not appear before the rift, but it still appears now.They should adjust the way skills are unlocked, for example, affinity related skills can only be used in the world after the rift is opened, while other skills((except for initial skills)) can be unlocked using related items to increase proficiency.

Edited March 22 by Mr.Oshiro

[Piekam]

On 3/21/2026 at 5:05 PM, Sorceress2024 said:

What you want would have been a good system if skill trees were build around it

If skill trees were built around it, ideally you'd still start with 2-5 points, the amount of time to get points would have to be heavly reduced, and there would likely have to be alternate ways to get points such as killing certain bosses for the first time in that world

I do think it would have been better if skill trees were that way, but its too far along for it to be like that, although it could still be nice to have that as a world setting but then certain characters that relly on starting with a lot of skills wouldnt be picked in those worlds as often as in other worlds.

Yes. I was actually thinking about it a lot, and it would be like... starting with 1-3, depending on the character, as some like wilson or wickerbottom could have MORE skills to really pick their own path, as said by one of the devs (the message about how they will revisit and tune up already exisitng skills.)

and while the wait could be shorter for the next insight, i adore the way wigfrid had to unlock 3 of her skills by doing stuff, and it sucks that you only have to do it all once, and secondly, it would be great to see others have similiar mechanic.

imagine if wilson, a tutorial, new players friendly character unlocked the better torches skills by getting bitten once by charlie, or by just standing in the dark long enough to hear her groan- just the small details that would make the game so much more vibrant and fun to play imo (also learning players that dark = Bad, as from what i heard from my friends, without knowledge about the darkness in DS, their first night ends in them dying because they didnt know that lack of light kills you. Could be a way to teach new people about that, without them having to die, or pointing it out clearlly at least-)

On 3/22/2026 at 12:29 PM, Cheggf said:

Skill trees being on a per world basis would be a huge improvement, but the way you acquire skill points would also need to change. AFKing for 70 days - 9 hours and 20 minutes - is very uninteractive and not at all rewarding. If, either in place of this passive gain or in addition to it, you got skill points for certain milestones, that would be good. Using a science machine, alchemy engine, prestihatitator, shadow manipulator, broken aspp, and repaired aspp for the first time could all award skill points. Killing certain enemies for the first time such as Deerclops, Spider Queen, Klaus, Werepig, etc, could award skill points. Fishing up a fish for the first time could award a skill point. Harvesting a plant from a farm plot for the first time could award a skill point.

If there was a variety of ways to earn skill points in a variety of different ways like this, then it would be fun to earn skill points. You could either naturally get them throughout your playthrough, or think about it like Pearl's list of quests. Which ones do I think would be easiest to rush through to get all the skill points I want the fastest? It would offer choice and tactics to acquiring the points, instead of them just automatically being maxed out when you join a server, or if you haven't played that character yet just slowly being earned over a period that's longer than an entire work day with nothing you do affecting the rate that they're earned. 

I think the thing i actually hate, would be people who just... use console to unlock it all. Dont get me wrong, anyone can play how they want, but it takes the only fun aspect from getting those away- 

most people just skip the days to "upgrade" thei character, and it stays there forever...

I liked how in og DS you unlocked new characters by just surviving a long time, and it could be similliar in DST like that, and imo even better-

on second thought, the skill trees could stay the same, but devs could implement one of the things like a world setting to lock players insight to the day count, for that server alone, hosts choice... ooor the button in compendium that lets you reset the insight, for replayability...

both could also be used to grant players that CHOOSE to play all over again like that, the ability to not pick a side pre-rift-
(I still think we shouldnt be able to change sides after picking one in the florid postern... it just feels weird...)

On 3/22/2026 at 5:52 PM, Mr.Oshiro said:

It is not an exaggeration to say that the current skill points allocation method has disrupted the original survival experience. Every time you join a new world, you gain full insight, which directly destroys the gradually accumulated processes, especially the Planar content.

Taking Willow’s skill tree as an example, after using all skill points, enter a brand new world and kill some creatures such as bees or spiders. You can then use Shadow Fire/Lunar Fire to kill freely. What? You told me to collect materials to make Ham Bat and Log Suit? Creating traps or using monsters to assist in battles? Why do I still do these things even though I can cause Planar damage on the first day? I can even skip making these things from beginning to end because I have had absolutely powerful abilities from the very beginning.The same goes for other characters.

I remember developers promised that content related to Planar would not appear before the rift, but it still appears now.They should adjust the way skills are unlocked, for example, affinity related skills can only be used in the world after the rift is opened, while other skills((except for initial skills)) can be unlocked using related items to increase proficiency.

true.

even if they dont change anything else, it would be great to at least see the locked paths stay locked per-world... planar would be locked till you kill fuel or celestial still that way. thats the easiest of the things to implement i think, and also seeing more side quests you have to complete on each character to unlock their true potential would be amazing

Edited March 30 by Piekam

[Cheggf]

13 hours ago, Piekam said:

I think the thing i actually hate, would be people who just... use console to unlock it all. Dont get me wrong, anyone can play how they want, but it takes the only fun aspect from getting those away- 

most people just skip the days to "upgrade" thei character, and it stays there forever...

Because there is no fun aspect in doing nothing for 10 hours. I am not accomplishing anything, I am not doing anything, I can not speed it up in any way, I literally just have to wait. There's no reason to do that. If it was anything else, if I actually interacted with anything to get the skill points then I would, but I don't, so I don't.

13 hours ago, Piekam said:

I liked how in og DS you unlocked new characters by just surviving a long time

In the original gangster Don't Starve you unlocked new characters by just surviving a long time because you sucked at the game and surviving was an accomplishment. I have played these games for well over 2,000 hours for the past 12 years, surviving is not an accomplishment. Surviving is the default. They have not done anything to make the game harder, in fact there's been hundreds of ways they made it far easier from nerfing fire spread into almost nonexistence, to the absurdly powerful beefalo taming, to the comically strong character reworks and skill trees, to the ridiculously strong new items.

Plus you unlocked the characters way faster and you didn't have to play as the latest character to unlock the next. In the time it takes you to unlock 1 out of the soon to be 20ish skill trees you will unlock literally every single character in Don't Starve. You get the characters in that game literally 20x faster. If I picked Wilson and then survived long enough to unlock his skill tree, I would have every single character in the game unlocked. Even if you also count unlocking all the DLC characters it's about the time it takes you to unlock 2 skill trees.

And that's not even mentioning the fact that you unlock several characters by doing stuff. Don't Starve has this timegate thing, but it's 20x faster, and it's not the only way to unlock characters. You unlock Maxwell and Wes from Adventure Mode, you unlock Webber by digging graves, you unlock Woodlegs by collecting all the keys to free him, you unlock Wilbur by returning his crown to him, and you unlock Wilba by returning her crown to her.

As usual, if you look at Don't Starve and compare it to Together, Don't Starve is miles better.

Edited March 30 by Cheggf

[Piekam]

18 hours ago, Cheggf said:

Because there is no fun aspect in doing nothing for 10 hours. I am not accomplishing anything, I am not doing anything, I can not speed it up in any way, I literally just have to wait. There's no reason to do that. If it was anything else, if I actually interacted with anything to get the skill points then I would, but I don't, so I don't.

In the original gangster Don't Starve you unlocked new characters by just surviving a long time because you sucked at the game and surviving was an accomplishment. I have played these games for well over 2,000 hours for the past 12 years, surviving is not an accomplishment. Surviving is the default. They have not done anything to make the game harder, in fact there's been hundreds of ways they made it far easier from nerfing fire spread into almost nonexistence, to the absurdly powerful beefalo taming, to the comically strong character reworks and skill trees, to the ridiculously strong new items.

Plus you unlocked the characters way faster and you didn't have to play as the latest character to unlock the next. In the time it takes you to unlock 1 out of the soon to be 20ish skill trees you will unlock literally every single character in Don't Starve. You get the characters in that game literally 20x faster. If I picked Wilson and then survived long enough to unlock his skill tree, I would have every single character in the game unlocked. Even if you also count unlocking all the DLC characters it's about the time it takes you to unlock 2 skill trees.

And that's not even mentioning the fact that you unlock several characters by doing stuff. Don't Starve has this timegate thing, but it's 20x faster, and it's not the only way to unlock characters. You unlock Maxwell and Wes from Adventure Mode, you unlock Webber by digging graves, you unlock Woodlegs by collecting all the keys to free him, you unlock Wilbur by returning his crown to him, and you unlock Wilba by returning her crown to her.

As usual, if you look at Don't Starve and compare it to Together, Don't Starve is miles better.

Yeah, thats why i said i love the locked skills... if they not only time gated you to survive but also do something to unlock a skill path, it would be sooo much better, even better then in DS.

Imagine this, Webbers skilltree, where he can make an entirelly new species or even a hybird of spiders, and you can unlock it with insight, but first you need to idk... befriend a spider queen and tend to her similliary like wurt and merm king (had no better ideas at the time for exaple lol)

Or, as i said before with Wilson, where you would have to be bitten by Charlie to get the torch ones, go to ruins or archives to unlock the transmutation ones-
This would give new players a guiding sign, and also a lil challange, and i still think sides should be picked actually after beating champion and fuelweaver too, for obvious reasons.