The holy trinity of megabasing has been established

[Tigris Nano]

6 minutes ago, Hungry French said:

all learned skills should be reset to zero, just like when starting a new world. 

Bee queen deserves getting obliterated in first few days by willow lunar flames or wortox souls so I disagree

[Hungry French]

3 minutes ago, Maxil20 said:

You have, quite literally, hit the “I hate when I see other people use the celestial portal, because it makes me mad they're having fun wrong” on the head so hard that it’s not even funny.

Other players can play the game differently from you mate. It doesn’t mean their enjoyment should be invalidated because you personally hate it.

 

I don't care how others play in most cases, but I care that this portal doesn't fit my gameplay. 
Like many other players, they require changes for the sake of their gameplay and do not want anything to be changed without their desire.
I can also play the game in a different way than others, and why should my pleasure continue to be invalidated because someone thinks that the portal is cool today?

There's a banal dead end here. I want to, they want to. No one will be happy with everything.

7 minutes ago, Tigris Nano said:

Bee queen deserves getting obliterated in first few days by willow lunar flames or wortox souls so I disagree

Bee Queen deserves to be destroyed only during spring. And it is destroyed by the abilities of the characters only if you have managed to kill the AFW or Celestial Champion by that time.
I think that's the way it should be.

[Tigris Nano]

3 minutes ago, Hungry French said:

And it is destroyed by the abilities of the characters only if you have managed to kill the AFW or Celestial Champion by that time.

While its true for willow, wortox only needs soul decoy + soul pierce skills. + few bee hats for safety

[Hungry French]

26 minutes ago, Tigris Nano said:

c_removeall("multiplayer_portal_moonrock")

This is not a mechanic that needs to be removed, but simply changed.

1 minute ago, Tigris Nano said:

Для ивы это действительно так, а для зверобоя нужны только навыки «Приманка для душ» и «Пронзание душ». + несколько пчелиных шляп для безопасности

Many of Wortox's skills should be weakened, because they are absurd. 
I also think that going to the boss with more than 1 set of armor is not fair.

[Tigris Nano]

3 minutes ago, Hungry French said:

I also think that going to the boss with more than 1 set of armor is not fair.

I think spamming stunlocking minions and leaving honey trace which makes any kiting impossible isnt fair either.

[Terser]

58 minutes ago, Tigris Nano said:

I think spamming stunlocking minions and leaving honey trace which makes any kiting impossible isnt fair either.

It is still possible to kite her by sort of doing a 1/4 circle after every attack to avoid the honey, and managing the minions with sleep/AoE/freeze/pathing/distraction/panic/whatever is almost the entire point of the fight I feel

[Hungry French]

1 hour ago, Tigris Nano said:

I think spamming stunlocking minions and leaving honey trace which makes any kiting impossible isnt fair either.

The only dishonest mechanics is her huge hp. And that's only for a single player. 
Spamming minions is an interesting mechanic that makes flutes a really important weapon.
This is a more honest and logical spam minion than crab king.
Honey makes kiting more difficult, but it doesn't cancel it out. 
You can still dodge steadily by doing 1-2 hits.

18 minutes ago, Terser said:

Её всё ещё можно «закрутить», делая четверть круга после каждой атаки, чтобы избежать «медовой ловушки», и управляя миньонами с помощью «сна», «AoE», «заморозки», «выбора пути», «отвлечения», «паники» и т. д. Я чувствую, что в этом и заключается весь смысл боя

The whole point of fighting is using the flute. 
But some of the Bee Queen mechanics make fighting silly.
1. The first phase is absolutely stupid and unnecessary.  The fact that she can't spawn minions if she has at least one is stupid and scriptable. 
2. Because of sleep and freezing, she has a desire to use "dodge", which makes the battle look stupid, because if you spam with a flute, she runs away and again. 
3. Well, the existence of phase 4 is not clear to me, because it is almost the same phase as phase 3.
Remove these nonsense and make her a normal hp and take away the opportunity to dancing she, then the boss will be great. 
Well, I don't like her drop either. x3 jelly bean in a cauldron. Who came up with this idea at all.

At least she has no mechanics, and fighting with her is not like beating a mannequin.

[Tigris Nano]

31 minutes ago, Terser said:

It is still possible to kite her by sort of doing a 1/4 circle after every attack to avoid the honey

Which will take even more time and will still have some failure chance (especially on servers). And judging by all bq fights I ever watched, ppl and content creators prefer tanking / using specific chars / abusing exploits. 

35 minutes ago, Terser said:

and managing the minions with sleep/AoE/freeze/pathing/distraction/panic/whatever

And this is part where fight becomes even bigger resource sink unless you use specific character or abuse some game holes. Every other boss can be done as any char without lots of preparations (except misery toad and pre rework ck).

[Terser]

3 minutes ago, Tigris Nano said:

Which will take even more time and will still have some failure chance (especially on servers). And judging by all bq fights I ever watched, ppl and content creators prefer tanking / using specific chars / abusing exploits. 

And this is part where fight becomes even bigger resource sink unless you use specific character or abuse some game holes. Every other boss can be done as any char without lots of preparations (except misery toad and pre rework ck).

Pre rework crab king didn't require a lot of preparations either, you were able to move the boat by utilising driftwood oar instead of rapidly freezing the boss, and a few bee mines were enough to cancel it's healing. You only had to periodically repair the boat or place more boats if the durability of your current boat was low. And yes, kiting her is slower than tanking, though my point was that it isn't impossible, not that it's better. I don't see an issue with fights requiring resources, neither would I call the mechanics in question holes. It is not like you have an option to kite trees for them to chop themselves, as you still need to spend resources on axes. I do not see why it is an issue when bosses require you to spend resources on getting their drops.

[Tigris Nano]

30 minutes ago, Hungry French said:

Spamming minions is an interesting mechanic that makes flutes a really important weapon

30 minutes ago, Hungry French said:

You can still dodge steadily by doing 1-2 hits.

You will most likely run out of flutes if you are going to 1-2 hit kite 22000hp boss (which cancels your flutes sometimes and has small window between attacks). Especially if magic forest doesnt have lots of mandrakes. So no its still resource waste which you will have to repeat every time you wish to kill that boss

[Hungry French]

1 minute ago, Tigris Nano said:

Скорее всего, у вас закончатся флейты, если вы собираетесь нанести 1–2 удара боссу с 22 000 единиц здоровья (который иногда отменяет ваши флейты и имеет небольшое окно между атаками). Особенно если в Волшебном лесу не так много мандрагоров. Так что нет, это всё равно пустая трата ресурсов, которую вам придётся повторять каждый раз, когда вы захотите убить этого босса

It wouldn't be a problem if you only needed one flute for 1 fight and it didn't have 22500hp. And flutes are easy to restore with the help of a green staff.

[-Nick-]

10 hours ago, loopuleasa said:

How do you teleport around?

That's the neat part, I don't.

 

[Tigris Nano]

5 minutes ago, Terser said:

Pre rework crab king didn't require a lot of preparations either, you were able to move the boat by utilising driftwood oar instead of rapidly freezing the boss, and a few bee mines were enough to cancel it's healing

Iirc ck couldnt even deal with bees just like now so that seems pretty cheesy. Like you could just circle around ck while bees do the job. Doing it without bees however was just not worth it.

8 minutes ago, Terser said:

I don't see an issue with fights requiring resources,

I dont see issues with that too unless it requires you to bring some absurd amount of stuff for one single kill. One.

5 minutes ago, Hungry French said:

It wouldn't be a problem if you only needed one flute for 1 fight and it didn't have 22500hp. And flutes are easy to restore with the help of a green staff.

Restoring one or two flutes is pretty easy but not 4, 5 or even 6. So until klei does some changes bee queen will suffer from flames, souls or ice flingos.

[Hungry French]

 

7 minutes ago, Tigris Nano said:

Restoring one or two flutes is pretty easy but not 4, 5 or even 6. So until klei does some changes bee queen will suffer from flames, souls or ice flingos.

To change this, the characters and their skills must become weaker. And to weaken or strengthen these are forbidden words.

[Terser]

8 minutes ago, Tigris Nano said:

Iirc ck couldnt even deal with bees just like now so that seems pretty cheesy. Like you could just circle around ck while bees do the job. Doing it without bees however was just not worth it.

I dont see issues with that too unless it requires you to bring some absurd amount of stuff for one single kill. One.

Restoring one or two flutes is pretty easy but not 4, 5 or even 6. So until klei does some changes bee queen will suffer from flames, souls or ice flingos.

There's a difference between having bees help you with the fight, and having them do the entire fight for you. You don't need nearly that many flutes, assuming you only once flute for the second phase. The other three phases can be quite comfortably dealt with without using flute, by leaving a single bee during the first phase and running from the bees and through them during the last two.

[Hungry French]

11 minutes ago, Tigris Nano said:

Насколько я помню, ck не мог справиться даже с пчёлами, так что это кажется довольно банальным. Как будто можно просто кружить вокруг ck, пока пчёлы делают свою работу. Однако делать это без пчёл было просто невыгодно. .

Therefore, bees should not attack Crab King, because it is literally defenseless.

[Tigris Nano]

4 minutes ago, Terser said:

There's a difference between having bees help you with the fight, and having them do the entire fight for you.

Point is same: ck didnt/doesnt have any way to deal with those bees which is weird.

 

10 minutes ago, Hungry French said:

Therefore, bees should not attack Crab King, because it is literally defenseless.

Or just kill them with claws

[Tigris Nano]

Just now, Terser said:

Still, wouldn't call it a cheese if you are actively fighting yourself as well.

Well you are actively fighting with dragonfly too but this doesnt make walls that keep larvas away something legit and not cheese. 

[Tigris Nano]

4 minutes ago, Terser said:

I'm not sure what part of the fight are you avoiding and cheesing. Preventing the healing?

Not only that, ck is unable to deal with them at all. Imagine scion fight but you have maxwell, walter, winona with her catas and others on docks outside of arena but being able to deal dmg. Do they prevent scion from doing dashes, stomps or supernovas? No but this doesnt make it legit because boss has no way to deal with that at all. Thats my point.

8 minutes ago, Terser said:

Regardless, this has gone too far off topic. Best to stop now, has nothing to do with megabasing or characters at this point.

Well yes its kinda turned into bq and cheese discussions (tho this is more interesting to me lol)