Wortox is the perfect skilltree

[Hungry French]

On 18.09.2025 at 14:06, loopuleasa said:

Я играю на случайном основном персонаже, то включаясь, то выключаясь. Большинство древей навыков я уже знаю наизусть и хотел бы прокомментировать, что, по моему мнению, делает древо навыков хорошим:

1. Множество подходящих вариантов (у меня буквально 5 наборов навыков Wortox, которые я использую из предустановленного мода)

2. Интересные механики, которые по-новому меняют персонажа

3. Интересные механики, которые дополняют то, что уже умеет персонаж

4. Пропитанный адским вкусом

5. Хюхю

Вот и всё. Просто немного похвалы.

Wortox was perfect at the time of its release...

[Crimson Hollow]

1 hour ago, Hungry French said:

Wortox was perfect at the time of its release...

[Hungry French]

9 minutes ago, Crimson Hollow said:

For me personally, giving a character a boost is making them more boring. Especially when it comes to literally replacing existing content. And in general, I don't like the way skill points work...
it's especially weird to have a bunch of skills for damage... Which only look good against Raid Bosses. 
But Wilson... He has no bonus damage...

[liolok]

22 hours ago, Hollow soul 3 said:

A perfect tree should probability make it feel like it's a hard decision.

Totally agreed with this sentence! So at the moment, which ones of all the skill trees are better than Wortox's?

[oregu]

My grievances with the Wortox skill tree is what follows:

1. Has some questionable lore implications (Wortox can be purely naughty, however in the short he can be seen as good spirited. Do we just disregard the short then for naughty tox? Or what exactly are we trying to say here, is naughty Wortox the side where the krampus part of Wortox wins?). A lot of his examination quotes seem to indicate that he is purposely morally grey due to his stances on subjects like mortals/souls/the constant imo, so saying he can either be naughty/innocent/neutral kind of ruins that feel.) This is more of a smaller issue but an issue nonetheless that I get reminded of each time I open the skill tree.

2. He is made absurdly powerful. This feels like a first-world problem. In reality who really cares whether a character is OP in a game like DST. To quote a scholar who knows all the techs "Pros: Invulnerable, Too fast, No need to eat. Cons: Who cares?" But no, seriously, it kind of ruined the prior fun of Wortox being a somewhat challenging character to play efficiently. Now it is easy to play Wortox optimally because of the skill tree because it's so predictable. You can get all the souls you need at once instead of scattered throughout the world because of soul jars. It's easier to kill things in groups because of the soul decoy/pierce. It's easier to use his teleport most effectively because of skills. All the skills make playing him easier instead of more interestingly.

3 There's only really one two optimal skill tree setups you can have meta-wise. Now this is territory of me randomly yapping about skill trees feeling too linear and one-size-fits-all.

Spoiler

You can attempt to justify the unselected skills if you want but all the unselected skills can be substituted with "Just get and use more souls." If you are playing alone, then you can use the twin-tail points on capricious travel, soul pierce 2, and the reaper.

In public settings you'll see killer bee fields littered with honey and stingers due to Wortoxes who are familiar with this meta gamestyle. I find it far too easy and predictable to play him this way personally, but it is also the fastest way to play him so I can't blame anyone for playing him like that either.

Never using soul bastion can be solved by getting more souls for healing and teleporting to souls or to people you want to heal. All the skill really does is make it easier for beginners to use Wortox. Not like there's anything wrong with that, but some find Wortox's 20 hp heal too big and I think soul bastion just amplified that issue for them. Just had to say why you never get it over other skills while doing the meta.

Flute skills are sadly not worth having ever in my eyes if you are planning ahead. The cooldown is too slow for it to be practical to use while fighting. You can get 60 souls at once from a using a panflute or you can get 60 souls faster in a bee field. A friend of mine brought up a good point that cloudy carmen can be used to kill bishops for free, but that same effect can be gotten by fire, or aggroing multiple bishops at the same time (if there are multiple) and timing your teleports, or simply tanking bishops with a chest armor piece and healing afterwards. They're really not that bad.

I dont really find the affinity skills all that worth it because Wortox is not really DPS in the first place, and soul hopping takes away from your DPS usually. I wouldnt be surprised if straight out attacking out-DPS'd both affinities (when attack cancelling) but I will leave that for someone else to check.

Edited September 22, 2025 by oregu

[Radicaljoe]

10 hours ago, liolok said:

Totally agreed with this sentence! So at the moment, which ones of all the skill trees are better than Wortox's?

I'd say Walter follows this rule well, every choice is equally valid.
And I think Willow's kinda does, you can't have the cool burning Bernie and flamethrower, you can have one or the other. (I only say kinda because planar Bernie + Willow is enough for most issues anyway so burning bernie is actually pretty niche to be helpful. The idea is there, just not implemented perfectly.)
And, I think that's it.

[Bumber64]

2 hours ago, oregu said:

Or what exactly are we trying to say here, is naughty Wortox the side where the krampus part of Wortox wins?

It was said that you would destroy the krampii, not join them! Bring balance to the skill tree, not leave it in naughtiness!

[liolok]

4 hours ago, Radicaljoe said:

And, I think that's it.

Wortox's skill tree managed to get into your top 3 after all. XD

[Hollow soul 3]

23 hours ago, Dingle said:

The map teleport remains great imo, as it gets to a 50% discount. That means less refuels on souls.

It depends a little on rng, but wormholes can make this a little redundant. It's always cheaper to use his soul hop as well. The biggest benefit to me is the speed for going back and forth, or teleporting groups to separate locations. Then again, with a group, soul farming can be made quicker with help. For me, it just fell into a place where I felt like I needed to make excuses to get a honest use for it. The soul jars just make the normal teleporting feel practically free. 

Also worth noting, if you like a perk you should use it. If you have fun with a perk, it's worth the point.

On 9/21/2025 at 10:58 AM, Dingle said:

I still think the pan flute soul toot isn't worth the points. If it was one point for the pan flute once a day toot and the 6 souls per toot, combined, I'd consider it. Now I just skip it. The faster you can get jars, the more of a waste of points it is.

As of now its like 2 points for 120 free souls a 20 day season. Sounds like a lot at first, but once you get a few jars thats basically saving you one trip to the bee biome every 2 hours and 40 minutes.

Do you ever spend 1 point just for the one free pan flute a day perk?

It's not. It definitely is not. The neutral branch is way undercooked. The 6 souls a day make food free, but just kill bees. Total noob bait.

I do get the free toot for my usual build, but it's practical value is slim because of the deconstruction staff. More than anything, it keeps my build neutral. The sanity management overshadowed the naughty benefits to me, with none of the downsides.

On 9/21/2025 at 10:58 AM, Dingle said:

I like the sack now as a tool. I also like it for catching extra bees sometimes before a ruins rush, mostly if I'm having bad luck with jars.

It's definitely better with the net use. I'm self aware enough to admit that this one is not a game issue. The disconnect between the real world function vs in game is jarring to me. I believe that a tool with the function of a shadow chest would make more sense, but practically it wouldn't add anything to the game. Your inventory is your base when teleporting is cheap. (Shadow chest solves issue of "what should happen to items if sack breaks" and makes the item feel more magical than bonk net)

 

On 9/21/2025 at 10:58 AM, Dingle said:

I'm still surprised this never happened.

I stole this criticism from someone else, but it just made too much sense when I heard it. When a soul can't fit in my pocket, it heals still. It drips slow, so it's not op. It fits with his tradeoff style. 

 

On 9/21/2025 at 10:58 AM, Dingle said:

I like decoy more than soul pierce, currently. One less point spent, and can still run the spider dock soul farm.

That's pretty valid. My biggest complaint is that I don't use it more. I use the soul hop all the time, and with the shadow affinity perk the additional soul hop gives a chunk of damage, or an aeo to bees. For me, it felt like to get the most bang for your buck with it, I wanted to use it every other teleport. The third ended up cutting into my DPS a little more than I wanted. If I wasn't trying to stay neutral, i would pick this one up.

20 hours ago, liolok said:

Totally agreed with this sentence! So at the moment, which ones of all the skill trees are better than Wortox's?

The only other skill tree I've played is Walter. I switch between Walter, wortox, Maxwell, and the occasional wickerbottom lol. Since wortox came out, I've put most of my hours in with him.

[Echsrick]

11 hours ago, oregu said:

1. Has some questionable lore implications (Wortox can be purely naughty, however in the short he can be seen as good spirited. Do we just disregard the short then for naughty tox? Or what exactly are we trying to say here, is naughty Wortox the side where the krampus part of Wortox wins?). A lot of his examination quotes seem to indicate that he is purposely morally grey due to his stances on subjects like mortals/souls/the constant imo, so saying he can either be naughty/innocent/neutral kind of ruins that feel.) This is more of a smaller issue but an issue nonetheless that I get reminded of each time I open the skill tree.

we need unique lines for certain things that lean more to wortox nice or naughty side...usualy about living things quote changes depending on it

[Dingle]

9 hours ago, liolok said:

Wortox's skill tree managed to get into your top 3 after all. XD

I like no matter what response you got, you could say "well he's in the top 11 lol".

I think his tree is better than those of Wilson, Wolfgang (strong but boring), Willow (strong but most pick the exact same tree), and Wigfrid.

"Well, he's in your top 7 dX"!

[Crimson Hollow]

On 9/21/2025 at 8:50 PM, Hungry French said:

For me personally, giving a character a boost is making them more boring. Especially when it comes to literally replacing existing content. And in general, I don't like the way skill points work...
it's especially weird to have a bunch of skills for damage... Which only look good against Raid Bosses. 
But Wilson... He has no bonus damage...

so if i understood correctly, the problem is power creep?
in this way id say yes, giving a character a boost without interesting mechanics/synergy/coherence is the boring way, just like how wortox skill tree was handled.... with all the lost potential

Edited September 22, 2025 by Crimson Hollow

[hyoton123]

41 minutes ago, Dingle said:

and Wigfrid.

Hey wig’s is good for wig players! (people who want to do things themselves but sloppily) (like me)

[Hungry French]

48 minutes ago, Crimson Hollow said:

so if i understood correctly, the problem is power creep?
in this way id say yes, giving a character a boost without interesting mechanics/synergy/coherence is the boring way, just like how wortox skill tree was handled.... with all the lost potential

That's partly true. 
1. And the main problem is that skills are saved for all the playthroughs, and that's it... Illogical and too strong.  It would be possible to make even bad skills useful if you could get them later.
2. It's not just about strength. It depends on the secondary content... The characters will have items that perform exactly the same functionality as the others, but better...

Well, it's a shame that the characters have few disadvantages...

[Dingle]

11 minutes ago, hyoton123 said:

Hey wig’s is good for wig players! (people who want to do things themselves but sloppily) (like me)

I had some fairly big issues with it, it disappointed me that the spear was the only sane choice if you can open rifts. Some other things too.

[hyoton123]

3 minutes ago, Dingle said:

I had some fairly big issues with it, it disappointed me that the spear was the only sane choice if you can open rifts. Some other things too.

I get it, but spear and beefalo are usable for basically every playthrough, and the free beefalo inspiration has a few shenanigans. Between that and the canister/planar defense/alignment, you get good daily QOL and really hard to kill without a lot of investment, and the shield or commander helm for anything the spear and ranged weapons dont cover. Good power level if you want the same experience every time but like varying up your worlds - i’d say, it’s very easy to use and mostly rewards you for what youd do in the first place. (i think wolf is the bad version of this)

[Dingle]

29 minutes ago, hyoton123 said:

I get it, but spear and beefalo are usable for basically every playthrough, and the free beefalo inspiration has a few shenanigans. Between that and the canister/planar defense/alignment, you get good daily QOL and really hard to kill without a lot of investment, and the shield or commander helm for anything the spear and ranged weapons dont cover. Good power level if you want the same experience every time but like varying up your worlds - i’d say, it’s very easy to use and mostly rewards you for what youd do in the first place. (i think wolf is the bad version of this)

Can't argue with what you're typing... but I bet your Wigfrid perk choices look nearly identical to mine. That's what I don't like, the lack of variety if you're making good choices.

Worse for me, as it sounds like you like the commander helm, and I never saw the point of it.

Her tree is definitely better than Wolfgang's though, but he may be the absolute worst tree despite the power.

Talking to more Wortoxes, I am starting to appreciate his tree variety more. I really dislike Naughty, but have heard from others that do like it. The only thing I stand firm on is how bad the pan flute talents are.

I like how Hollow called them noob bait, they really are as far as I can tell.

6 hours ago, Hollow soul 3 said:

The neutral branch is way undercooked. The 6 souls a day make food free, but just kill bees. Total noob bait.

I do get the free toot for my usual build, but it's practical value is slim because of the deconstruction staff. More than anything, it keeps my build neutral. The sanity management overshadowed the naughty benefits to me, with none of the downsides.

I like Neutral a lot more than Naughty. I still miss Nice if I don't have it. Neutral does seem pretty enticing post-Scion, though. I also use Neutral for my multiplayer build now, just because it lets me get both lifegiver 2 and piercing 2, with all 4 teleport skills and Greed.

For multiplayer, I start to prefer Piercing 2 over Decoy mostly due to Bramble Armor. Bramble armor always supercharged Wortox, and it still does. Decoy seems less useful with it, but Piercing 2 makes it even stronger.

[hyoton123]

20 minutes ago, Dingle said:

Can't argue with what you're typing... but I bet your Wigfrid perk choices look nearly identical to mine. That's what I don't like, the lack of variety if you're making good choices.

Worse for me, as it sounds like you like the commander helm, and I never saw the point of it.

Yeah, I agree with you there. It’s a skilltree for people who dont want to play too much. (I mean that in a complimentary way!!)

[Crimson Hollow]

18 hours ago, Hungry French said:

2. It's not just about strength. It depends on the secondary content... The characters will have items that perform exactly the same functionality as the others, but better...

Like wigfrid's spear compared with an average spear? if thats the case its a problem for most of the survivors, except for walter/warly that has a downside that forces you into a different gameplay loop

18 hours ago, Hungry French said:

Well, it's a shame that the characters have few disadvantages...

they did introduce new downsides for wortox skill tree, but i dont know how impactful it is

[Hungry French]

3 hours ago, Crimson Hollow said:

Как копьё Вигфрида по сравнению со средним копьём? Если дело в этом, то это проблема для большинства выживших, кроме Уолтера/Варли, у которого есть недостаток, из-за которого вам придётся использовать другой игровой цикл

Yes it is. Klei could have added a spear and a pig helmet at least as an ingredient for crafting... But alas, they didn't want to...

 

3 hours ago, Crimson Hollow said:

Они действительно добавили новые недостатки в дерево навыков Wortox, но я не знаю, насколько это существенно

With the condition that Wortox is considered an incredibly strong character after Skill Tree... These disadvantages are not significant...

[Hollow soul 3]

22 hours ago, Crimson Hollow said:

they did introduce new downsides for wortox skill tree, but i dont know how impactful it is

Biggest downside for me is that agro on soul pierce. 

[Bumber64]

4 hours ago, Hollow soul 3 said:

Biggest downside for me is that agro on soul pierce. 

Does it still harm friendly beefalos? It's pretty bad for an automatic attack to be so indiscriminate.

Edited September 24, 2025 by Bumber64

[Dingle]

3 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

Does it still harm friendly beefalos?

If they have no saddle, yes.

5 hours ago, Hollow soul 3 said:

Biggest downside for me is that agro on soul pierce. 

I want to experiment with slurtle shell armor to avoid soul pierce aggro. I keep forgetting to grab a couple, though.

[Hollow soul 3]

On 9/24/2025 at 2:35 PM, Dingle said:

I want to experiment with slurtle shell armor to avoid soul pierce aggro. I keep forgetting to grab a couple, though.

I've been saying the same thing about the bush hat, but I keep forgetting

[Dingle]

3 hours ago, Hollow soul 3 said:

I've been saying the same thing about the bush hat, but I keep forgetting

Bush hat doesn't remove existing aggro, so I assume it doesn't. I didn't experiment with it much though, as any hit unhides you so the experiments end fast.