Do you really want to use ONLY dark swords?

[Wumpair]

Here is my 2 cents: When I use darkswords I carry 3 stacks with me - a darksword, nightmare fuel and living logs to craft more. 

With glass cutters you can carry 1 for casual combat, or if you go to somewhere with lots of fights (e.i. ruins) you can take the same 3 slots worth of cutters. The -durability is not a substantial factor, in practice you will not run trough all the 3 swords; and as you 'cut' trough them (pun intended) your inventory clears for more junk. You can carry a couple of swords with you not just one. For boss fights you can preprare even further with multiple trips. Yes inventory management is a mess in dst, but there are ways to manage it, and 2 slots is not as intense to carry more power with you. 

Glass cuters >> darkswards in every way; except availability: You had to go to lunar island to obtain them (and boats have an infinite inventory so you can just go there and craft a bunch to keep using them).

My personal problem is availability: For darkswords you have to first get the magic stations set up (unless you are wicker/winona who can short cut) and gather resources. This takes some considerable time to do unless you are rushing magic.

For the cutter the availability is much quicker now, get the orb go to the grotto and you have the fire power to destroy anything on your way. My concern is not in the middle game or lategame - middle game it will mean little difference to cutter vs darkswords, variaty is good over all and having more alternative sis welcomed; lategame these things get overshadowed by the convinience of rift items you can repair. Early game is my concer. This weapon deals 68 damage, with no extra requirments (e.i. wetness) and with NO downside. It overshadows all the other options you have available early game. 

[Mit_Mit_Mit]

24 minutes ago, Wumpair said:

Here is my 2 cents: When I use darkswords I carry 3 stacks with me - a darksword, nightmare fuel and living logs to craft more. 

With glass cutters you can carry 1 for casual combat, or if you go to somewhere with lots of fights (e.i. ruins) you can take the same 3 slots worth of cutters. The -durability is not a substantial factor, in practice you will not run trough all the 3 swords; and as you 'cut' trough them (pun intended) your inventory clears for more junk. You can carry a couple of swords with you not just one. For boss fights you can preprare even further with multiple trips. Yes inventory management is a mess in dst, but there are ways to manage it, and 2 slots is not as intense to carry more power with you. 

Glass cuters >> darkswards in every way; except availability: You had to go to lunar island to obtain them (and boats have an infinite inventory so you can just go there and craft a bunch to keep using them).

My personal problem is availability: For darkswords you have to first get the magic stations set up (unless you are wicker/winona who can short cut) and gather resources. This takes some considerable time to do unless you are rushing magic.

For the cutter the availability is much quicker now, get the orb go to the grotto and you have the fire power to destroy anything on your way. My concern is not in the middle game or lategame - middle game it will mean little difference to cutter vs darkswords, variaty is good over all and having more alternative sis welcomed; lategame these things get overshadowed by the convinience of rift items you can repair. Early game is my concer. This weapon deals 68 damage, with no extra requirments (e.i. wetness) and with NO downside. It overshadows all the other options you have available early game. 

You make valid points about the availability-to-benefit ratio. Overall, I think the glass cutter should remain altar-crafted but with prototyping enabled. This way, a lunar island trip stays necessary to obtain it - not just stumbling into some random rocky biome.

Regarding early game:

Most players don’t rush lunar island exploration immediately.

It’s not intuitive: you need to scout the map, guess its location, prep for sailing, gather the altar, then prototype.

These steps only feel quick if you’re experienced. Newer players will focus on surviving the mainland first.

I wouldn’t call this weapon a massive advantage either - ham bats exist, after all. To me, it’s just another viable weapon option that adds good variety

[Mike23Ua]

43 minutes ago, Wumpair said:

Here is my 2 cents: When I use darkswords I carry 3 stacks with me - a darksword, nightmare fuel and living logs to craft more. 

With glass cutters you can carry 1 for casual combat, or if you go to somewhere with lots of fights (e.i. ruins) you can take the same 3 slots worth of cutters. The -durability is not a substantial factor, in practice you will not run trough all the 3 swords; and as you 'cut' trough them (pun intended) your inventory clears for more junk. You can carry a couple of swords with you not just one. For boss fights you can preprare even further with multiple trips. Yes inventory management is a mess in dst, but there are ways to manage it, and 2 slots is not as intense to carry more power with you. 

Glass cuters >> darkswards in every way; except availability: You had to go to lunar island to obtain them (and boats have an infinite inventory so you can just go there and craft a bunch to keep using them).

My personal problem is availability: For darkswords you have to first get the magic stations set up (unless you are wicker/winona who can short cut) and gather resources. This takes some considerable time to do unless you are rushing magic.

For the cutter the availability is much quicker now, get the orb go to the grotto and you have the fire power to destroy anything on your way. My concern is not in the middle game or lategame - middle game it will mean little difference to cutter vs darkswords, variaty is good over all and having more alternative sis welcomed; lategame these things get overshadowed by the convinience of rift items you can repair. Early game is my concer. This weapon deals 68 damage, with no extra requirments (e.i. wetness) and with NO downside. It overshadows all the other options you have available early game. 

Speaking from personal experience I can rush magic tier + Darkswords WAY WAY WAYYYYY Faster than I can to wait around for the Celestial Orb to fall on like day 60?

I can realistically probably rush a Darksword on Day 1-3, I can’t do the same for Glass Cutters.

[Zima Blue]

Dark swords are so convenient I'll probably use them a lot more than glass swords. The materials are super easy to get, specially when you play multiplayer, you just need a wortox and a wormwood to get infinite living log. Nightmare fuel is so cheap, there are so many methods to farming it and you get a lot just by going to the ruins. 

[Dyzrespect]

I think you nailed it on the head in the original post, no notes at all.

I'll just add to all the people still trying to say that the Glass Cutter is any better than a Darksword, let alone a Hambat, is reaching. 1 less hit to kill a nightmare creature and extra durability against shadow bosses (Shadow Pieces and AFW) is functionally meaningless when discussing general use. Darkswords have just as much of an edge against enlightened bosses, helping you manage sanity during those fights, and also helping you gather more nightmare fuel to make more of them. Hambats will always be the go to for everyday use because they're by far the easiest to make, have infinite durability, and losing 10-15 damage per swing means functionally nothing in most situations, and even on bosses only means a 15% longer fight.

[Evelo]

I'm fine with the glass cutter being cheaper, it was quite pricey, but you shouldn't make it cheaper while simultaneously making it extremely accessible. The Dark Sword has the downside of requiring Living Logs which are not as easy to farm (sans Wormwood) and drain sanity while wielded. Compared to the Glass Cutter which has no sanity drain, requires only basic resources while the downsides of requiring to go out of your way to acquire and half durability.

So reducing the cost is fine so long as you keep the downside of making it harder to acquire. While the Celestial Orb requirement is nice to somewhat make it more accessible, it also is essentially a prototype that costs an inventory slot.  Half durability is a major issue if you have to spend expensive resources (see why Bat Bat isn't too great but still usable for its niche and why it is a costly item) But if it is dirt cheap then who cares about durability? Flint Axe's major flaw is they have pretty bad durability, however they are almost free to craft.

So keep the class cutter to require a plank and 6 moonglass, and allow it to be more accessible to acquire as while it is still cheap, it isn't dirt cheap so the half durability matters more. Or make it stupid cheap like it is now, but make it more annoying to acquire.

Hope that makes sense on the upsides and downsides of the Darksword vs Glass Cutter (also technically vs Thulecite Club) arguments.

[Sacco]

i think dark sword and ham bat should get nerfed… 

[Jakepeng99]

12 hours ago, Cruvimaster said:

There is a supremacy of Hambat. Any effort from Devs to change this scenario a little is a good measure in my vision.

I mean not really. 
Darksword deals more damage, and is more efficient when you are not killing things non stop.

[Dyzrespect]

13 hours ago, Evelo said:

I'm fine with the glass cutter being cheaper, it was quite pricey, but you shouldn't make it cheaper while simultaneously making it extremely accessible. The Dark Sword has the downside of requiring Living Logs which are not as easy to farm (sans Wormwood) and drain sanity while wielded. Compared to the Glass Cutter which has no sanity drain, requires only basic resources while the downsides of requiring to go out of your way to acquire and half durability.

So reducing the cost is fine so long as you keep the downside of making it harder to acquire. While the Celestial Orb requirement is nice to somewhat make it more accessible, it also is essentially a prototype that costs an inventory slot.  Half durability is a major issue if you have to spend expensive resources (see why Bat Bat isn't too great but still usable for its niche and why it is a costly item) But if it is dirt cheap then who cares about durability? Flint Axe's major flaw is they have pretty bad durability, however they are almost free to craft.

So keep the class cutter to require a plank and 6 moonglass, and allow it to be more accessible to acquire as while it is still cheap, it isn't dirt cheap so the half durability matters more. Or make it stupid cheap like it is now, but make it more annoying to acquire.

Hope that makes sense on the upsides and downsides of the Darksword vs Glass Cutter (also technically vs Thulecite Club) arguments.

You're vastly overvaluing the sanity drain on the dark sword, and overestimating the amount of moon glass you passively accumulate before the lunar rift is open. They do the same damage, and both roughly equally benefit when attacking their opposing faction, they should be about equal in terms of effort to acquire. Considering you can get enough materials to craft enough of both to last you until rifts in a single trip to the grotto, I'd say that's already true, whether glass cutters cost 3 or 6 moon glass. With that said, making glass cutters more tedious to make only serves to make your life more miserable for no reason, and it's weird that you recognize that it was this aspect that made people not use them before, but simultaneously say it should go back to that way. 

Also there is no comparison between Darksword/Glass Cutter and Thulecite Club, they are comparable to the Hambat, which has infinite durability, no sanity drain, and barely less damage, so everything you just said about Glass Cutters applies way more harshly to Hambats than Glass Cutters.

Edited July 29, 2025 by Dyzrespect

[Catuna_]

20 hours ago, Cruvimaster said:

I'm convinced the devs know that almost all players only use the hambat. And if the hambat had planar damage, they'd keep using it forever. Only the Toadstool makes you want to use another weapon.

That's not true, you can use hambat perfectly fine for Toadstool since you can just drop your hambat and walk away when you have a spore on your head

[Cruvimaster]

1 minute ago, Catuna_ said:

That's not true, you can use hambat perfectly fine for Toadstool since you can just drop your hambat and walk away when you have a spore on your head

I didn't say you can't use it.

[Catuna_]

20 hours ago, Mit_Mit_Mit said:

I’ve seen discussions about the recent changes making the Glass Cutter cheaper and more accessible. A common argument is that this removes the weapon from its "niche," making it less unique. Others claim the new recipe is "unfairly" cheap - just 1 log and 3 moon shards for 68 damage (equal to a dark sword). And of course, some say allowing prototyping is excessive, especially given prior updates.

But I want to ask these critics directly: Do you actually play the game?

Before these changes, the Glass Cutter had one purpose: killing Fuelweaver. It was optimal for that fight (no sanity drain, higher durability), but useless elsewhere. Against non-shadow mobs (i.e., 90% of enemies), it broke faster than a dark sword, and you couldn’t craft it on demand. Carrying a weapon that degrades quickly is pointless - it’d break before you got real value.

That’s why nobody used it. That’s why everyone uses dark swords - not just for damage, but because they’re craftable anytime, anywhere.

On "cheapness" and accessibility:
Dark sword: Requires two crafting stations, chopping totally normal trees/killing Treeguards, and farming nightmare creatures.

Glass Cutter: Find an island, build a boat, sail, gather an altar, chop trees, mine glass boulders.

Both require effort and game knowledge. Dark swords have higher risk, but resources are universally available. Glass Cutters demand specific locations (which you must discover) and non anytime available lunar glass.

This creates a REAL choice:
Stick to the 10-year meta (dark swords), or

Explore new content, gather lunar resources, and use a viable alternative.

Is the Glass Cutter better? Slightly:
 Cheaper
 No sanity cost
 Rewards non-mandatory exploration

But it’s not OP - it’s a meaningful side-grade. The fact that it’s a bit stronger than dark swords makes it a good alternative, not just a reskin or situational tool.

The reality of balance:
Right now, the Glass Cutter can only exist in three states:

Worse than dark swords - Nobody uses it.

Equal to dark swords - Just a reskin with extra steps.

Better than dark swords - Justifies its niche and effort.

If critics want to only use dark swords forever, then yes - make the Glass Cutter harder to craft and don't add prototyping. But if we want fresh gameplay after a decade, prototyping and affordable recipes are essential.

As for cost? 1 log + 3 shards is fair. The lower durability balances the ease of crafting, and lunar trips still aren’t trivial.

My issue is the +17 damage buff on "minor" nightmare creatures, this is a great idea and I think that it would give it an edge vs the dark sword if it wasn't for the fact that it deliberately doesn't work on Fuelweaver.

With these buffs and the way they're presented the nightmare creature bonus is just kind of there because of the limited selection of mobs, but it's similar to a dark sword in that you can craft it on the go and it deals reliable damage. This is bad in my opinion because the two items are starting to overlap a lot.

What I think should happen is that the glass cutter should be made slightly more expensive and in exchange the set bonus works on all nightmare creatures, you could also argue that it'd be fair to make it so that the durability bonus works on all shadow aligned enemies. Dark sword and Hambat are made to be reliable weapons and as a result that's what you're gonna use most of the time, so I think that other weapons that are forgotten should be buffed to be higher impact in situational scenarios. 
 

[Mit_Mit_Mit]

1 hour ago, Catuna_ said:

My issue is the +17 damage buff on "minor" nightmare creatures, this is a great idea and I think that it would give it an edge vs the dark sword if it wasn't for the fact that it deliberately doesn't work on Fuelweaver.

With these buffs and the way they're presented the nightmare creature bonus is just kind of there because of the limited selection of mobs, but it's similar to a dark sword in that you can craft it on the go and it deals reliable damage. This is bad in my opinion because the two items are starting to overlap a lot.

What I think should happen is that the glass cutter should be made slightly more expensive and in exchange the set bonus works on all nightmare creatures, you could also argue that it'd be fair to make it so that the durability bonus works on all shadow aligned enemies. Dark sword and Hambat are made to be reliable weapons and as a result that's what you're gonna use most of the time, so I think that other weapons that are forgotten should be buffed to be higher impact in situational scenarios. 
 

+17 damage as a 'trade-off' is laughable, especially when Wolfgang exists and casually deals 2x damage with any weapon to any enemy. I'm not saying it's bad - it's just a drop in the bucket gameplay-wise. Killing nightmare creatures one hit faster changes nothing meaningful. The only real benefit is against Fuelweaver, which highlights the weapon's core issue: it's only truly useful against one boss.

I get your intent about situational balance, but the game lacks enough scenarios to justify this niche. You'll still use dark swords 90% of time simply because they're always available. That's why making this weapon as generally useful as a dark sword is better than keeping it as a "use once, maybe twice" gimmick.

As for them 'overlapping' - how?

They require completely different progression paths and resources.

Their acquisition methods alone prevent overlap.

Edited July 29, 2025 by Mit_Mit_Mit

[Dyzrespect]

2 hours ago, Catuna_ said:

My issue is the +17 damage buff on "minor" nightmare creatures, this is a great idea and I think that it would give it an edge vs the dark sword if it wasn't for the fact that it deliberately doesn't work on Fuelweaver.

With these buffs and the way they're presented the nightmare creature bonus is just kind of there because of the limited selection of mobs, but it's similar to a dark sword in that you can craft it on the go and it deals reliable damage. This is bad in my opinion because the two items are starting to overlap a lot.

What I think should happen is that the glass cutter should be made slightly more expensive and in exchange the set bonus works on all nightmare creatures, you could also argue that it'd be fair to make it so that the durability bonus works on all shadow aligned enemies. Dark sword and Hambat are made to be reliable weapons and as a result that's what you're gonna use most of the time, so I think that other weapons that are forgotten should be buffed to be higher impact in situational scenarios. 
 

I feel like what you're describing is the current non-beta implementation of glass cutters, and tbh I don't think we need to make Fuelweaver easier by buffing glass cutters against him. They're a weapon that is annoying to get due to its cost and limited craftability that is only used on Fuelweaver because of it; Hambats and Dark Swords are used everywhere else. What is it that gives Dark Swords and Hambats the exclusive right to be the only reliable weapons before rift weapons anyways? Wouldn't it be cooler if when you went to fight dfly one person was using a Dark Sword, another a character specific item, someone using a Cat-o-three-tails, someone using glass cutters... why is it good that for 90% of pre rift combat everyone is just using hambats and darkswords?

Every single pre-rift weapon occupies a limited time slot now, as obviously once you get rift weapons they're all basically useless. So having a weapon or two that is just the best and most accessible dominate that entire phase of the game is a shame.

Edited July 29, 2025 by Dyzrespect

[Catuna_]

2 hours ago, Mit_Mit_Mit said:

+17 damage as a 'trade-off' is laughable, especially when Wolfgang exists and casually deals 2x damage with any weapon to any enemy. I'm not saying it's bad - it's just a drop in the bucket gameplay-wise. Killing nightmare creatures one hit faster changes nothing meaningful. The only real benefit is against Fuelweaver, which highlights the weapon's core issue: it's only truly useful against one boss.

IIIIII don't get why we're comparing damage boosts to Wolfgang's when he's designed to have the highest damage output in the game and said damage boosts apply onto him anyway? There's 18 characters in the cast Wolfgang is just one of them. What I'm saying is that the +17 damage should just apply to all nightmares so that its niche is more solidified. The ruins is full of nightmares and Fuelweaver and the shadow pieces are major parts of the game so labeling it as "just one boss" seems quite pessimistic. It's also like, I'm sure you know how notoriously Fuelweaver is considered to be aswell? So like, +17 damage (25% damage increase btw) WOULD absolutely entice people to use it much more.

2 hours ago, Mit_Mit_Mit said:

I get your intent about situational balance, but the game lacks enough scenarios to justify this niche. You'll still use dark swords 90% of time simply because they're always available. That's why making this weapon as generally useful as a dark sword is better than keeping it as a "use once, maybe twice" gimmick.

 Giving the glass cutter some genuine uses where it's the clear best option would be much better than the current implementation of buffs in my opinion, I don't understand what's unique about this approach.

2 hours ago, Mit_Mit_Mit said:

As for them 'overlapping' - how?

They require completely different progression paths and resources.

Their acquisition methods alone prevent overlap.

I meant overlapping in niche of the weapon, you're literally just making Dark Sword 2...
Ultimately with these changes they fulfill the exact same purpose and being able to craft them on-the-go without ever interacting with any lunar content is really odd.
They're nearly reskins of each other and that's kind of the issue I have with the current glass cutter gameplay design. It should be more distinct to actually accomplish its intended niche which is to be good against nightmares at the cost of being a little costlier. It makes important content easier and faster. 

1 hour ago, Dyzrespect said:

I feel like what you're describing is the current non-beta implementation of glass cutters, and tbh I don't think we need to make Fuelweaver easier by buffing glass cutters against him. They're a weapon that is annoying to get due to its cost and limited craftability that is only used on Fuelweaver because of it; Hambats and Dark Swords are used everywhere else. What is it that gives Dark Swords and Hambats the exclusive right to be the only reliable weapons before rift weapons anyways? Wouldn't it be cooler if when you went to fight dfly one person was using a Dark Sword, another a character specific item, someone using a Cat-o-three-tails, someone using glass cutters... why is it good that for 90% of pre rift combat everyone is just using hambats and darkswords?

I think you've misinterpreted my point... I agree with Klei buffing the glass cutter! and I want them to buff other bad weapons too! But the way they went about buffing the glass cutter is not unique at all. If you're designing different weapons they should have clear advantages and disadvantages between each other, but the glass cutter and dark sword don't do this. 25 uses vs -20sanity/min should not be what makes you pick what weapon to use. Making the glass cutter easier to craft while making its damage boost only apply to like 2 enemies in the game is not the right way to go about this. What's the point of a unique weapon if it's functionally the same as a dark sword? 
 

[Evelo]

5 hours ago, Dyzrespect said:

You're vastly overvaluing the...

You're vastly overwording an opinion I have. Value is extremely subjective. I think the main downside of the Glasscutter compared to a Darksword is the iritation in acquiring it. Therefore it is not for "no reason". The reason is balancing. Which is also subjective. I feel this is a good reflection of balance to combat the sanity and Living Log acquisition downside. (Granted Living Logs can also be acquired via the grotto but not in high numbers)

5 hours ago, Dyzrespect said:

Also there is no comparison between Darksword/Glass Cutter and Thulecite Club, they are comparable to the Hambat

Also an opinion that I completely disagree with. The Thulecite Club and Darksword have been the basis of comparison long before the Glass Cutter arrived. On average the hambat does less than 50 damage if you are actually using it for the majority of the duration and not only just making one for a few moments. It is more comparable to a spear. I feel, but that is opinions is it not? If we cannot agree on the basis of one thing, there is no point in discussion/argument as we are comparing apples to shoes essentially.