Singleplayer vs Multiplayer boss design

[aidancode]

I know a large chunk of players play DST alone, but I'm curious what people think in the forums.

[Cassielu]

I don't think singleplayer or mulitplayer is the main difference between the two batches of bosses you listed.

[AliceShiki]

I don't get the logic of putting Crab King in the same batch as Bee Queen and AFW. Dragonfly would be a much more logical option there.

Anyways, I like raid bosses and I like simpler bosses too, so... Both are good?

Edited May 30, 2025 by AliceShiki

[Cruvimaster]

A world with 2 Wilsons is multiplayer and another world with 1 Wolfgang is singleplayer. Should a boss for a world with 2 Wilsons have more HP than a boss for a world with 1 Wolfgang?

Another question is, is there a boss that can be a challenge for a world with 6 Wolfgangs?

Regarding the Warbot, it is perfectly possible to destroy it using a Maxwell (cage) and a Winona (catapults).

But a simple Wolfgang boosted with just 1 Volt Goat Chaud-Froid disintegrates the boss in seconds.

[Edible Coal]

i think even if the boss isnt design to be multiplayer in mind, it should atlease have enough attacks that punish people just tank as a group ( dragonfly, bee queen)

like cc aoe lazer, werepig sometime random target pounce, kalus limited atk angle( only front or back ) and elemental attacks

[Semind]

15 hours ago, milsonmeow said:

In my opinion, Klaus is the best example of boss fight in the entirety of the game. You can either fight him solo (which takes longer to beat, but relatively easy attack patterns) or multiplayer (quicker to beat, yet his attacks scale with the players that engage with the fight).

 

6 hours ago, Edible Coal said:

i think even if the boss isnt design to be multiplayer in mind, it should atlease have enough attacks that punish people just tank as a group ( dragonfly, bee queen)

like cc aoe lazer, werepig sometime random target pounce, kalus limited atk angle( only front or back ) and elemental attacks

I'm generally more in favor of designing attacks that scale in danger with the number of targets, yeah. I guess it sucks for Wurt and Webber (and big army strats generally), but I also think it's not such a bad thing if characters have specific struggles to go along with specific advantages.

[GimplyGoose]

My personal opinion is that the majority of new bosses should be designed around being a fun solo fight first. I think complicating factors from multiple players being present is a good way to make a boss balanced to fight solo still interesting in multi-player (like Klaus).

[Edible Coal]

6 hours ago, Semind said:

 

I'm generally more in favor of designing attacks that scale in danger with the number of targets, yeah. I guess it sucks for Wurt and Webber (and big army strats generally), but I also think it's not such a bad thing if characters have specific struggles to go along with specific advantages.

even boss that scales with more target and has AOE cant deal with 30 merm guard

[aidancode]

22 hours ago, AliceShiki said:

Dragonfly would be a much more logical option there.

a LOT of people fight dragonfly with cheese which effectively nullifies the multiplayer aspect of the fight. i just didnt think it was the best example, though it's true that a lot of these are subjective. im sure there are people who think afw feels best singleplayer idk

[FillerText]

I think a bit of both has their place in the game, but neither should be the standard. 

I can't really provide insight that doesn't sound like vague rambling. The gist of things is that the "singleplayer bosses" are often incredibly easy, and take minimal preparation. I find preparation fun, but they are also very accessible due to that. "Multiplayer" bosses give me something to work towards after I have nothing else to do, while bosses like Nightmare Werepig usually get killed by me before I am even properly ready for Winter for their amazing, helpful loot. 

Ultimately it's just liking having stuff to do at all stages of the game. 

[ShakerGER]

The way Cruvimaster looks at things is the exact wrong way of doing things and I am glad klei isn't doing that. Just going by DPS and HP pools makes bosses like Misery toadstool which you do once tops.

[cropo]

On 5/30/2025 at 6:09 AM, Cruvimaster said:

A world with 2 Wilsons is multiplayer and another world with 1 Wolfgang is singleplayer. Should a boss for a world with 2 Wilsons have more HP than a boss for a world with 1 Wolfgang?

Another question is, is there a boss that can be a challenge for a world with 6 Wolfgangs?

Regarding the Warbot, it is perfectly possible to destroy it using a Maxwell (cage) and a Winona (catapults).

But a simple Wolfgang boosted with just 1 Volt Goat Chaud-Froid disintegrates the boss in seconds.

For me it's not the HP the boss has but rather the way the boss fights that determines if it's made for multiplayer or singleplayer. I would consider non-cheese dragonfly to be made for multiplayer, not because of her HP but the summoning of many minions which need to be handled quickly before Dragonfly rejoins the fight and dogpiles you. Requiring a single player to really go overboard with their switches.

[Cruvimaster]

1 hour ago, cropo said:

For me it's not the HP the boss has but rather the way the boss fights that determines if it's made for multiplayer or singleplayer. I would consider non-cheese dragonfly to be made for multiplayer, not because of her HP but the summoning of many minions which need to be handled quickly before Dragonfly rejoins the fight and dogpiles you. Requiring a single player to really go overboard with their switches.

Is using Maxwell against Dragonfly and other bosses a cheese too?

What current boss design can handle 6 Wolfgang + Volt Goat Chaud-Froid these days? Can even AFW resist that?

The answer is that nothing in this game can handle the damage multipliers that Klei has put in the game, regardless of whether we are talking about HP, HP regeneration or any technique that a boss has.

2 hours ago, ShakerGER said:

The way Cruvimaster looks at things is the exact wrong way of doing things and I am glad klei isn't doing that. Just going by DPS and HP pools makes bosses like Misery toadstool which you do once tops.

OK. The best boss for multiplayer would be the AFW (medium HP). Can he resist 6 players with damage multiplier?

What I'm saying is that it's very difficult to define whether a boss is for single or multiplayer in the current way.

[IAmAFurrz]

On 5/31/2025 at 3:06 AM, Semind said:

it sucks for Wurt

she can just spam more merms lol thats all she does

[cropo]

1 hour ago, Cruvimaster said:

Is using Maxwell against Dragonfly and other bosses a cheese too?

No.

1 hour ago, Cruvimaster said:

What current boss design can handle 6 Wolfgang + Volt Goat Chaud-Froid these days? Can even AFW resist that?

Probably none. I was just playing Fallout 76; they added a new raid that was intended for multiplayer. The balance was for multiplayer, the bosses are designed to be nearly impossible to beat solo. It can be solod, and with a group of high level players we kill the bosses in under a minute. With all this in mind, they were balanced for multiplayer all the same.

[AliceShiki]

2 hours ago, Cruvimaster said:

What current boss design can handle 6 Wolfgang

If any boss could ever handle 6 Wolfgangs, then the boss would most likely be impossible to beat solo, and maybe impossible for 2~3 Wilsons too.

6 Wolfgangs with Ham Bats is not something you should ever use as a standard, never mind using Volt Goat stuff.

When people say a boss looks like it was made for Multiplayer, they mean the boss seems to be designed around 2~3 Wilsons fighting it, not 6 Wolfgangs, because 6 Wolfgangs will naturally break anything... Which well, they should, because nothing should be able to withstand x12 damage.

Edited June 2, 2025 by AliceShiki