[Game Update] The Prehistoric Planet Pack DLC - 671500 & 671603

[Pproy]

3 hours ago, Gurgel said:

I pretty much had 10x the seaweed needed when I destroyed Demolier at cycle 175 or so. You just need to farm it and that is not hard to do. 

The main concern I have is not if i'm able to scrounge up enough biodiesel to destroy Demolier at time, but if its going to be a strenuous process to do so, in addition to power my base during mid game without switching to petroleum. While it requires more work, it was a nice change of pace to power our base with biodiesel instead of petroleum. Doing so even encourage to interact with the rest of the DLC, with ranching Dartle to get the require bleach stone, Rex for brine ice for Dewdrops and so on.

And before anyone says "just plant more Seakomb", how viable is it really in term of polluted dirt? Without ethanol distiller, planting 10X more seakomb mean that were going to run out of polluted dirt 10X faster. If we can get enough dirt for 500 cycle or so, I imagine its fine since it get us enough time to build a nuclear plant or other preferred late game power solution (although it would still be a shame to phase out seakomb at that point). At that point, the resource chain that the DLC propose would be established and there would not be a reason to remove them late game. However, if we barely have the polluted dirt required to farm enough Seakomb to deal with Demolier, or run out of pollutted dirt 50 cycle after, it mean that we would have to rush to establish a petroleum production line, which it would make most of the DLC pointless. Why establish a resin farm if we have to establish a petroleum production line at the same time?

I do agree that before, it was a bit too powerful, with people being able to blast Demolier in less than 50 cycles. But it would be very bad for the DLC if biodiesel is nerfed to the ground. Now, the patch is only 24 hours or so old and more testing is required, but I really hope that it remains a viable option to use biodiesel as a mid game, even late game solution for power production.

[theldo123]

The big thing about the seakomb thing is that it costs polluted dirt and there's still only one method to get the quantities necessary, and that method already gives us something that fulfills the role of a combustible liquid, which is one of phyto oils uses. If seakomb used resources that were more renewable, or if there was a new method to make polluted dirt so we can scale up seakomb production, I'd be fine with the bug fix that reduced the output by 90%. 

An examples of what I'm talking about could be that pacu feeding off of seakombs could go positive on polluted dirt.

[Gurgel]

12 hours ago, Pproy said:

The main concern I have is not if i'm able to scrounge up enough biodiesel to destroy Demolier at time, but if its going to be a strenuous process to do so, in addition to power my base during mid game without switching to petroleum.

These are two separate issues. Destroying Demolier and powering your base with petroleum pose entirely different challenges. For the first, you just need to find temporary solutions. And no, it is not hard to do. The second needs to be sustainable. I do not think petroleum as base-power is sustainable without an oil biome. I also to not think mid-game starts before you have destroyed Demolier. More like a few 100 cycles later. 

Incidentally, I think I have never used petroleum for power in mid game. I have done trees and ethanol, but only as end-game for other asteroids. 

What is really happening here is that you need to find a new approach. Just accept it and do something different that petroleum this time for mid-game. Having to find new solution is the whole appeal of these content packs. 

[Pproy]

3 hours ago, Gurgel said:

These are two separate issues. Destroying Demolier and powering your base with petroleum pose entirely different challenges. For the first, you just need to find temporary solutions. And no, it is not hard to do. The second needs to be sustainable. I do not think petroleum as base-power is sustainable without an oil biome. I also to not think mid-game starts before you have destroyed Demolier. More like a few 100 cycles later. 

Incidentally, I think I have never used petroleum for power in mid game. I have done trees and ethanol, but only as end-game for other asteroids. 

What is really happening here is that you need to find a new approach. Just accept it and do something different that petroleum this time for mid-game. Having to find new solution is the whole appeal of these content packs. 

I think you misunderstand my point. I agree that in term of dealing with Demolier, Seakomb route seem fine. But after that, how long is those Seakomb farm are going to last before we run out of polluted dirt? And how realistic it is to power our base with biodiesel?

Before the patch, I didnt use petroleum (nor did I want to, I always prefered going the nuclear option). Hell, it if was up to me, in term of the space out map, I would switch the teleporter destination with the radioactive forest instead of the oily swamp. I think that the ethanol route at least compliment the DLC content more than the oil biome.

I do understand that before, seakomb was OP with people being able to blast Demolier before cycle 50. But, I feel that the nerf is too extreme in term of other application of biodiesel. I think that you could agree that it would be boring if the only use of Seakomb is to blow up that meteor. If the number are to stay the same, I would at least like other option to produce biodiesel so my Seakomb farm stays relevent past Demolier. Perhap new recipe for the algae distiller to maximize phyto oil extraction yield, or ajust fertilisation of Seakomb so it stays sustainable. And honestly, if it has to come to a desisiin has to be made between Seakomb being viable throught all the game at the cost of trivializing dealing with Demolier VS dealing with Demolier being a chalenge, I would chose Seakomb.

Edited May 29, 2025 by Pproy

[Gurgel]

8 hours ago, Pproy said:

I think you misunderstand my point. I agree that in term of dealing with Demolier, Seakomb route seem fine. But after that, how long is those Seakomb farm are going to last before we run out of polluted dirt? And how realistic it is to power our base with biodiesel?

No, you are misunderstanding mine. I do not think biodiesel is intended as a power source at all.

[Pproy]

36 minutes ago, Gurgel said:

No, you are misunderstanding mine. I do not think biodiesel is intended as a power source at all.

Then why can we burn it in a petroleum generator? And quite frankly, why shouldn't it be an alternative way to power our base?

[AugyBear]

I'm not sure I'm following the logic with ignoring biodiesel because you're running Ethanol Distillers.

The Ethanol Distillers are going to generate polluted dirt, and you can now turn that polluted dirt into MORE fuel. Why would that be bad? Is the point that you want to do a biodiesel-only colony and never generate another combustible liquid?

[Paperbag]

3 hours ago, Gurgel said:

No, you are misunderstanding mine. I do not think biodiesel is intended as a power source at all.

That's... kind of silly? Like. Why? The only other thing you can use it for is to make Tallow, and the Deep Frier can't even make the top quality foods.

By your argument, biodiesel exists solely for the purpose of shooting down Demolier, an event that happens once, in the first 200 cycles, of a game where people can play colonies up to thousands of cycles and keep going. You do see how incredibly boring it is to have Seakomb be basically pointless for all the rest of that time, right?

 

[Babxbba]

• Added missing Lumbs to the scrambled Garden biome and the Relica Fragment.

I've already begun a classic run on spaced out with likely dlc biomes  previously of this patch.
You know if on the asteroids that I've still to discover can i find lumbs or they are already blasted?

 

[Gurgel]

17 hours ago, Pproy said:

Then why can we burn it in a petroleum generator? And quite frankly, why shouldn't it be an alternative way to power our base?

That has a really simple answer: Because it can be burned. Duh. You could power your base via tallow. But should you? No. 

Some mechanisms are high yield, some are low yield. They are intended for different uses. Deal with it. 

As to why biodiesel  is not an alternative to base power, see your own comments. 

[speckle21]

To be fair, i do love the tallow production from the biodiesel, and i would keep my infrastructure just for that. I would however GREATLY reduce the infrastructure since i don't need much tallow and there are better power sources even on Relica map. 

Is that the overall objective? Provide a very quick and very dirty combustible liquid for the blastshot maker with complete disregard for efficiency... then transition to a tallow production reward?

I can sort of see the point. It's not meant for power production. Just a game mechanic to destroy Demolior. And the power usage is just a sink to clean up and get rid of any remaining biodiesel you aren't using for tallow.

I'm sort of warming to the idea. In that case i would like maybe at least one more use for one of the outputs. Maybe another use for phyto oil or something. Just so that all the infrastructure to make biodiesel doesn't have to be completely abandoned. I do use tallow, but not THAT much tallow. And some of us don't have the Frosty Planet Pack at all.

Edited May 30, 2025 by speckle21

[Pproy]

On 5/29/2025 at 8:18 AM, Gurgel said:

Just accept it and do something different that petroleum this time for mid-game. Having to find new solution is the whole appeal of these content packs. 

On 5/30/2025 at 3:11 PM, Gurgel said:

That has a really simple answer: Because it can be burned. Duh. You could power your base via tallow. But should you? No. 

We can burn it in a petroleum generator because the dev took the time to code it in. And, I think we owe it to them to give them more credit than "just because".

But let return to the proper topic. If I understand it well, your argument is that biodiesel is not meant to power our base, let alone have uses past Demolior because it is currently unsustainable to do so currently (anyway before today patch, I still need to check the effect of the changes), and it is so because it is as the dev intended, otherwise we would have a readily available source of renewable polluted dirt. However, if it so, why Dartles poop bleach stone?  If it was only for megafronts, then it would be much more logical if the just strait up fart chlorine. Furthermore, the map furnish more than enough bleach stone to produce biodiesel to deal with Demolior, so no need to ranch Dartle for that.

In my opinion, which I believe a couple other player shares, the way it is designed, we have to make a temporary build to produce enough biodiesel for Demolior. Once that is dealt with, since we already have the infrastructure to produce biodiesel, the logical next step is to make it somewhat sustainable, which include ranching Dartle (and in extension, Dewdrip and Rhex). Part of what is being discussed is how to currently make polluted dirt more renewable on Relica. If you want to bring the argument that Seakomb alone should'nt be sustainable on their own, that fine. Like I said, I would gladly replace the oil biome from the teleport asteroid to the forest biome. Number could be adjusted in a way that it would take 40 ish seakomb to power a petroleum generator through a cycle, which mean 2 Ethanol distiller to support those farm, introducing a positive synergy in an existing build. Basicly: 

On 5/29/2025 at 8:18 AM, Gurgel said:

What is really happening here is that you need to find a new approach. Just accept it and do something different that petroleum this time for mid-game. Having to find new solution is the whole appeal of these content packs. 

 

Edited May 31, 2025 by Pproy