We don't need more speed items.

[Cuernito.]

No, we really dont need more and here's why: They are hard to balance and i think they should not be a priority right now. But this post is more like a response to all wendy mains that wants vigor mortis to give speed for free. Im gonna explain here why that would break the game as good as i can.

First its true that some characters have special items to give speed but they all come with a drawback or something that makes them not break the game. Some example are:

Woodie walking stick: this item is really good cause it gives 15% extra speed and it is really cheap but... They only last 4 days and woodie needs to spend 2 insight points to get this single speed effect.

Wormwood: His blooming speed comes with the drawback of losing hunger more often and its not for free, you need to bloom wormwood with growth formula if you want to have it during any season but spring. So his 20% extra speeds comes with a cost.

Wolfgang: His 10% from the skill "leg day" is one of the worse ways to get speed cause wolfgang needs to spend 2 skill points to get it and you can only use it in normal form, so you have to lose the main power of wolfgang in order to access 10%, this is too much for only 10%.

Wes: His balloon speed is cheap and nice but do remember that he is wes, and that's enough drawback to me.

Wx-78: Again his speed is not for free, he need to scan a rabbit first and if you want ot have the upgrade version you need to scan a rook! not only that but the robot is just an average character, he doesnt have super strength or anything and his stats are really average, and if he gets wet you can say bye bye to the extra speed.

Now lets imagine for a moment wendy gets a buff for vigor mortis for extra 10%, will this be really insane? Well yes. With this, wendy needs to use 2 insigh points to get 7 effects, some of them are really good for early game, like night vision, and now with extra 10% speed on command, this would be really unbalance cause wendy wouldnt have any drawbacks for using this, remember that vigor is one of the cheapest potions so wendy can have it almost for free, it doesnt matter that you lose the effect every time you take the crown off your head. Unlike wolfgang wendy wouldnt lose any of her main power to get this speed, and she would have it for the first day being even faster and cheaper to get than wormwood's an wx78 speed. And you get others effects to use like night vision for only 2 points! lol not even woodie walking stick is this gross. Wes would be the only character with a better speed item but remember that he is wes and unlike wendy he cant kill all the spiders or bees or mokeys that he wants.

Im tired of all the wendy mains that want wendy to be this overpowered and they can't even see this reality, its like they are so biased that they think wendy is a weak character lmao.

 

[Bumber64]

The more important point is that there isn't a head slot speed boost in the game. Woodie has to spend skill points for an item that conflicts with walking cane or speedy balloon.

This would raise everyone's (on foot) speed potential by 10%.

[Cuernito.]

5 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

The more important point is that there isn't a head slot speed boost in the game. Woodie has to spend skill points for an item that conflicts with walking cane or speedy balloon.

The woodies walking stick has more durability than wes balloons, and its an item only good for early game, why would anyone try to use it during mid-late game when walking cane and lazy explorers exist?

I think a head item to give speed could be cool to have if its well balanced, but it should not be a character specific.

 

[Bumber64]

5 minutes ago, NekoSoulx said:

The woodies walking stick has more durability than wes balloons, and its an item only good for early game, why would anyone try to use it during mid-late game when walking cane and lazy explorers exist?

But imagine if you could equip both at once. It's just a 15% boost, and costs skill points! Not OP!

[Crimson Hollow]

here we go again

[Mike23Ua]

You say this… but then Klei officially goes on record and stated they added Warbis Armor to the game almost exclusively to make the game better for Non-PC players (Aka us console peasants)

 

[DVGMedia]

28 minutes ago, NekoSoulx said:

I think a head item to give speed could be cool to have if its well balanced, but it should not be a character specific.

I would think why not both? There is a post suggesting to add the sleek hat into the pearl quest line. That in itself is 25% speed for the head slot item Wendy's wreath with vigor could be exactly the same as Woody's walking stick in that Instance. Since I mean I've only ever suggested it have 10 since that's enough to where it's helpful. But not op for its cost .

You still never really explained how it's insanely unbalanced other than just citing Wendy's character. You know the draw back for using it is not using a survival based head item. Leaving the character more vulnerable. Especially since taking it off disables the potion. If you want to do any form of swapping headgear for things you'd have to constantly reapply it and its duration can be affected by the duration. Meaning to really take advantage the player would need to spend 8 points.

I feel like you look at just one part of it and think that that's the worst thing of it but there's really a lot of things that do balance it out in the grand scheme of the game

[Guille6785]

nah, speed is great, give me more speed

[Walrusst]

I want speed items but I also want items that try to make running counter to the speed meta valuable.

Say there was a heavy object (Like the marble pieces) that could be swung for heavy damage, stuff like the cork bat, better weapons that act like the fencing sword........

[Cuernito.]

42 minutes ago, DVGMedia said:

I would think why not both? There is a post suggesting to add the sleek hat into the pearl quest line. That in itself is 25% speed for the head slot item Wendy's wreath with vigor could be exactly the same as Woody's walking stick in that Instance. Since I mean I've only ever suggested it have 10 since that's enough to where it's helpful. But not op for its cost .

You still never really explained how it's insanely unbalanced other than just citing Wendy's character. You know the draw back for using it is not using a survival based head item. Leaving the character more vulnerable. Especially since taking it off disables the potion. If you want to do any form of swapping headgear for things you'd have to constantly reapply it and its duration can be affected by the duration. Meaning to really take advantage the player would need to spend 8 points.

I feel like you look at just one part of it and think that that's the worst thing of it but there's really a lot of things that do balance it out in the grand scheme of the game

Did you read my text? its unbalance cause wendy doesnt have any drawback to use it, i even put some examples like wolfgang's speed. And if there's really a lot of things that can balance it, why klei didnt add it after the beta? i mean the idea was there during the beta and still klei didnt add it. mmm maybe you are right and both me and klei are wrong, who knows. 

But what if we give wendy a new explosion like power, and we call that power the kamehame-spook and with that wendy can destroy all her enemies as early as she spawn? do you think that would be enough to calm down wendy players that even after the release of wendy skill tree are claiming for more buffs? 

nah wendy is good enough now and i think klei is not gonna add more for her. so im done with this topic.

[BattleOzze]

38 minutes ago, NekoSoulx said:

Did you read my text? its unbalance cause wendy doesnt have any drawback to use it

Wait till he bust out "acht-ually, it's  7 insight points, since potions are reeeeealllllyyyy expensive" card. 

Also, I love how people are trying to buff WW, when Team Spirit exist. Maybe we should shift attention to skills that are actually weak, instead of trying to make decent one's overpowered?

[Echsrick]

yes, speed boosting sould be a luxery, and in build character sould come with an actual cost

[nicolas103]

Percentage based speed is just really unbalanced, and the more you stack the more absurd it starts to look, and easier it is to dodge.

I dont mind speed stacking with the few things we have, but i also just dont like how absurd it is to actually look at, and how much it affects combat. (Ex. Shipwrecked levels of speedstacking)

 

I'd much rather have long distance Travel improved via current underwhelming structures(Telelocator, Wormholes, Lazy Deserter) than more Percentage Based Speed items.

 

Funny enough i dont actually mind Wendy gaining this speed bonus.

[Ginosaji]

1 hour ago, nicolas103 said:

Percentage based speed is just really unbalanced, and the more you stack the more absurd it starts to look, and easier it is to dodge.

I dont mind speed stacking with the few things we have, but i also just dont like how absurd it is to actually look at, and how much it affects combat. (Ex. Shipwrecked levels of speedstacking)

 

I'd much rather have long distance Travel improved via current underwhelming structures(Telelocator, Wormholes, Lazy Deserter) than more Percentage Based Speed items.

 

Funny enough i dont actually mind Wendy gaining this speed bonus.

I just don't see the issue. I tame a Beefalo every world I play and they have a good speed, armor and damage.

Cane provides none of that, only speed and it's not even on par with Beefalo speed and is only 17 damage so worse than an axe which you can make day 1.

Magiluminescence is fine because you trade inventory storage for an Amulet which only gives a bit of light and gives no armor.

If we now add another nasty hat which has an insanity aura it wouldn't be op at all if it gives another speed boost on top. You don't wear the eyebrella to keep cool or dry, enlightened crown for extra dps or armor to make accidental hits more forgiving.

 

I'd also want a better way of fast travel. Idk why we needed to get rabbit burrow storage when the horn could've spawned a worm hole like way to traverse the world. They could've spun a pun about "going down the rabbit hole" or whatever.

[Jimothywastaken]

I don't dislike the idea of a speed boosting hat but I don't think the only option for one should be tied to a character. 

 

If a sleek hat or similar got added but wendy got a cheaper worse option for early game she can share (like woodie's walking stick) that would be fine though.

[reddocc]

glad they didn't back down from the changes

[DVGMedia]

2 hours ago, BattleOzze said:

Wait till he bust out "acht-ually, it's  7 insight points, since potions are reeeeealllllyyyy expensive" card. 

Also, I love how people are trying to buff WW, when Team Spirit exist. Maybe we should shift attention to skills that are actually weak, instead of trying to make decent one's overpowered?

I mean that's also valid sisturn could have been something so much better too.

Thing is through is I don't get why there is a need to compromise. Is a survival game. And this would make the character more fun to play at benefit to every else.

3 hours ago, NekoSoulx said:

Did you read my text? its unbalance cause wendy doesnt have any drawback to use it, i even put some examples like wolfgang's speed

Have you ever heard of opportunity cost it's the cost that someone has by choosing something and missing out on others. That in itself is downside enough. Because to use it in day to day you must restrict the amount of items that you can use with it.

Wolfgang speed is actually really nice because of the instances it comes into play

he really doesn't have an opportunity cost because  you don't need to be mighty 247. that's not the reason why you use his speed in the first place his speed is quality of life to make the default and the mundane less painful it's not meant for combat. 

That's exactly the same instance that you would use this for Wendy. It's not enough to really be useful in combat it's more just so that you can traverse the world a little better. But in order to do so you must give up either armor  or insulation. And also for the fact that you can't be using her other spells with it so the player gets to determine when it's actually useful for them. Most likely what would happen is that they would double use nightshade because they would drink a speed potion during the day and then drink a nightshade during night and repeat. So the player actually incurs more costs to use this than if it didn't. 

That would usually be around mid game because players wouldn't want to give up their cane and they only chest light sources another speed boost but that also drops their inventory. 

Do you see what I mean and how the cost is actually built in? And its not simply just the cost of the materials to use?

 

[Ryusuta]

For me, the absolute best-balanced speedster wasn't even in DST; it was the Hamlet character, Wheeler. While her downside was substantial (less storage space), her speed bonus was twofold - not only does she have a passive speed bonus for packing light, but she also has her dodge move, which was a REALLY cool addition both for fighting and for moving in general.

I'm so glad we have the Hamlet Characters mod, but she deserves an official return one day. She rules.

[Cyrefy]

As a player who uses magi and walking cane, I don't understand the need for more speed.

But I also think that magi and teleports and even the walking cane are bad because they make the beefalo useless, giving it a specific use only to those who want to do very specific builds like Maxwell or Wendy.

I think it's very sad that beefalos are reduced to rock carriers... they could be so much more, but no one values them, especially the Devs who haven't even given them more skins... not even a new mechanic, race or utility... sad.

 

[JustAPineapple]

Yeah, I feel like a character being more powerful or easier then other characters isn't a problem as long characters are unique

3 minutes ago, DVGMedia said:

Thing is through is I don't get why there is a need to compromise. Is a survival game. And this would make the character more fun to play at benefit to every else.

Very much agree with this sentiment. It is entirely okay for some characters to be "easier" or more "powerful" then other character's, as long as every chatacter has some kind of niche and appeal in their own right.

Like, take for example Wolfgang vs Wigfrid, both are combat oriented characters, and Wolfgang can out dps Wigfrid any day, but people still play Wigfrid, of course they do, because playing Wolfgang vs Wigfrid are very different experiences. Wolfgang is (generally) much more straight forward when it comes to combat and his skill tree, when compared to Wigfrids elding spear or sheild or song shenanigans. Of course there's still funky things you can do with Wolfgang, with your whistle or gimmick bells, that obviously wigfrid or any other chatacter can't.

Wolfgang being straight forward also isn't inherently a bad thing, like a character with a easy to understand straight forward and powerful gameplan is, dare I say, a good option to have available?

And this sentiment extends to Wendy, would wendy having some speed invalidate Woody? Of course it wouldn't, you can't turn into a moose or a goose or get a bunch of tree guards or any of the other things that make woody unique. Something as ultimately inconsequential as having a "better" speed option or access to more miscellaneous bonus bits and bobs, is like, a non issue, y-know? These aren't the kind of things you choose a chatacter for.

Do I think Wendy 'needs' a speed boost? Not rly. Do I think it'd be unbalanced? Nada.

Some characters can just be powerful and that's okay, what matters is that characters play differently from one another and are fun to play.

I do understand where your coming from though Op, and ultimately I think it's more then understandable to not want Klei to focus on rebalancing a character you feel doesn't need it, and with that I can agree.

I hope this all makes sense though, and that you can see where I'm and others are coming from; balancing for fun and uniqueness first and foremost, rather then powerlevel.

[nicolas103]

1 hour ago, Ginosaji said:

I just don't see the issue. I tame a Beefalo every world I play and they have a good speed, armor and damage.

Cane provides none of that, only speed and it's not even on par with Beefalo speed and is only 17 damage so worse than an axe which you can make day 1.

Magiluminescence is fine because you trade inventory storage for an Amulet which only gives a bit of light and gives no armor.

If we now add another nasty hat which has an insanity aura it wouldn't be op at all if it gives another speed boost on top. You don't wear the eyebrella to keep cool or dry, enlightened crown for extra dps or armor to make accidental hits more forgiving.

The problem i have with speedstacking is the more speed bonus items you stack the more the game starts to look very wacky at high speeds, and problems arise such as clipping walls, and barriers(This is already possible with the speed of Lunar Woby. The amount of times ive fell into the void is insane, lol)

 

Another major issue is combat. You can say you lose dps for not using a Crown, or Planar boosting helmet, but thats just not true. Pre Rework Wolfgang was able to hit 1-2 more times for almost every fight because of his speed.

That alone is an absurd damage bonus gained from a speed bonus.

You can also say theres a trade off for wearing a speed boosting helmet because you wont have armor if you also have Magi, but i dont see this.

The increased forgiveness of speed allows for way easier dodges, and baiting out attacks therefore a speed bonus is Offense, Defense, and Mobility all in one item. We have enough Speed. We just need proper Long Distance Travel!

 

I just don't want every fight becoming a Shipwrecked SpeedStacking anime battle. Its funny, but not balanced in this already easy game!

 

2 hours ago, Ginosaji said:

I'd also want a better way of fast travel. Idk why we needed to get rabbit burrow storage when the horn could've spawned a worm hole like way to traverse the world. They could've spun a pun about "going down the rabbit hole" or whatever.

Also, great idea!

[SilverSpoon]

9 hours ago, NekoSoulx said:

Im tired of all the wendy mains that want wendy to be this overpowered and they can't even see this reality, its like they are so biased that they think wendy is a weak character lmao.

8 hours ago, NekoSoulx said:

But what if we give wendy a new explosion like power, and we call that power the kamehame-spook and with that wendy can destroy all her enemies as early as she spawn? do you think that would be enough to calm down wendy players that even after the release of wendy skill tree are claiming for more buffs? 

Sir, please stop commenting on game balance based on personal hatred towards Wendy players. If this is what you want to say, then Wendy and the speed boost have absolutely nothing to do with it.

If really  you don't like "Vigor motis and the 2 skill tree points required (and the ~9 skill points for run it) for Speed Boot", it could increase the skill tree point requirement or add a drawback, making it a win-win for everyone.

[Dr.Webber]

I like how this post as at war with a different post

[qwp18]

10 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

You say this… but then Klei officially goes on record and stated they added Warbis Armor to the game almost exclusively to make the game better for Non-PC players (Aka us console peasants)

 

How come? What's their reasoning and where can I find it? I have genuinely 0 idea why this would be the case, I'm a console person and I pretty much never ever feel the need to use warbis armor

[wormwood123]

10 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

You say this… but then Klei officially goes on record and stated they added Warbis Armor to the game almost exclusively to make the game better for Non-PC players (Aka us console peasants)

 

As a console player i wouldn't use W.A.R.B.I.S over void/brightshade armour because sure speed is nice it ultimately gets to a point where more speed is pointless in combat and besides... I also struggle to see how this makes the game better on console over pc because the game controls fine outside of certain aspects (E.G wortox/lazy explorer, Walter alt slingshot atk and woby control overlap)and W.A.R.B.I.S doesn't even effect these, so i don't get your point, could you go in depth?