Problem: How to keep new players engaged?

[Gashzer]

DST is absolutely amazing at keeping semi-experienced to veteran players hooked.

What is does poorly is keeping completely new players interested long enough to keep engaged with the game. I feel like DST could be 100000x bigger than what it currently is if Klei found a genius way to hook new players in the beginning.

I've been forever trying to get my wife into DST, I've had a few separated, couple hour game sessions with her but it always ends up with her bored with a lack of direction. I tired my best not to push her in any given direction and not overload her with info so she gets a real experience of discovery.

But the first 20 days of autumn which is almost 3 irl hours is just running around an collecting things with no real interactions par a spider here or a pig who wanders there. My wife is like, "this is so boring just collecting stuff". For us experienced players we know collecting stuff is needed to rush ruins and fight raid bosses and is necessary for the fun stuff... but new players can't obviously see that and the first real boss fight you discover which is dragonfly is such a huge spike in difficulty that my wife died and got fed up. 

Again I didn't want to spoil things or force her to do things, but I think DST would really benefit from more early game interactions, npc's, traders, some mini boss raid fights that you can discover from just exploring.

We both work and have other irl commitments so me and my wife can't sit down for a 10hour gaming session to get her into DST. Wish DST was easier to jump in and out of without forgetting what you were at.

Any tips on how to introduce a new person to DST when they only have an hour or 2 to play every so often? Cheers lads.

[Edible Coal]

There are other modes that are much faster to get into like forge and gorge, pvp, tumble weed battles, lottery machine fights.
But yeah, dst is a resource collecting game at its core and is pretty hard to play new session with other people that has a big difference in playtime

[Gashzer]

13 minutes ago, Edible Coal said:

There are other modes that are much faster to get into like forge and gorge, pvp, tumble weed battles, lottery machine fights.
But yeah, dst is a resource collecting game at its core and is pretty hard to play new session with other people that has a big difference in playtime

We play on the Nintendo switch split screen... no forge, gorge etc etc.

Aye DST isn't a game for everyone, I might try reducing the season lengths or something next time but my wife wanted a vanilla experience, so no easy mode lol 

Don't get me wrong, in the like 5 hours we're played together my wife is about 10x better than people 100+ hours especially when it comes to combat (even on dodgy console switch controls) just the grind without "purpose" isn't hooking her.

Also Klei give us geo placement on switch, the wife did begin to like base building but the controls are awful on the switch, it's hard to line things up neatly enough to be satisfying.

[Edible Coal]

6 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Don't get me wrong, in the like 5 hours we're played together my wife is about 10x better than people 100+ hours especially when it comes to combat (even on dodgy console switch controls) just the grind without "purpose" isn't hooking her.

ah well, i didnt really get the fun of dst until like 10-20 hours later, maybe you can show her a 1000 days old world and see the cool items( if you somehow have one) 

[Dr. Safety]

I think they are doing the best thing, which is the free steam copy to entice new players to play with friends. This game is a lot of fun for new players if it's just a group of friends struggling and just trying to survive a little longer each time.

That gameplay loop loses its charm pretty quickly if you are solo new player. 

[Valase]

When I started, I found DST and DS/RoG quite a bore, but I loved the fast pace from HAM. Maybe you could introduce her to Hamlet and help/guide her there.

[Gashzer]

38 minutes ago, Edible Coal said:

ah well, i didnt really get the fun of dst until like 10-20 hours later, maybe you can show her a 1000 days old world and see the cool items( if you somehow have one) 

Got a 600 day world on switch but it's an absolute mess... yeno with the lack of geo placement

Plus with rifts active it would be too much random stuff happening.

[Hollow soul 3]

25 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Got a 600 day world on switch but it's an absolute mess... yeno with the lack of geo placement

Plus with rifts active it would be too much random stuff happening.

Try decreasing the amount of spider nests. That and keeping the ground clean will help reduce lag noticably. Replacing the natural turf will help to prevent regrowth. If you make your base wider it'll reduce the items on screen, also reducing lag. 

[Walrusst]

47 minutes ago, Valase said:

When I started, I found DST and DS/RoG quite a bore, but I loved the fast pace from HAM. Maybe you could introduce her to Hamlet and help/guide her there.

DST is such a weird beast as a whole because there are so many mechanics that feel like shipwrecked mechanics.....
You can sort of indefinitely reproduce everything you need like they are the mussels/fish farms, (Hell, fish traps in a good spot act like stronger fish farms by like a factor of 10 that don't hound wave you for harvesting them/get eaten by hounds if you place them well.)

A few places, the guano biome, and a few of the more hostile single resource zones/empty zones could really use the hamlet grazing/foraging breath of life to make more of the world something you engage with instead of walking through.

Since one of the key DST issues I'd say is the balance of foraging to base sitting is a bit out of wack, a lot of locations are empty nearly threatless locations where you simply get powerful agricultural goods that help you base sit, more life to foraging in slightly dangerous areas is my 10/10 killer update feature.

People love the first 20 day trickle feed of resources when they are starting out, prolonging the wanderer experience before people want to farm would do so much to help new players start discovering more and getting to what many would consider the core gameplay that kleis been pushing.

[DVGMedia]

I would say. Just let her in on your plans like I'm collecting things to do this . Dangle the carrot.  Unless you like exploring DST is really not friendly to new players because  they don't have guidance. 

The thing is alot of people  tend to follow the ruins bossing way of progressing. But that's not at all what the game is about. To some that's fun but you should find out what your wife likes in the game.  Maybe can fit her a character that specializes in that.  Because every character plays the game differently.  Your priorities are not always the same each play through. And you will find the fun on your own. It may not always be the combat oriented route that most tend to fall into. 

Inherently DST is more sandboxy  where it's up to the player to set goals to do.  It's only as you get better at the game do you figure out how much stuff there actually is to do that combat oriented stuff is only a small fraction. 

[AliceShiki]

Not every game genre is for everyone. If the person doesn't like survival/sandbox games, then the game just isn't for them, and that's fine.

[Gashzer]

2 minutes ago, DVGMedia said:

I would say. Just let her in on your plans like I'm collecting things to do this . Dangle the carrot.  Unless you like exploring DST is really not friendly to new players because  they don't have guidance. 

The thing is alot of people  tend to follow the ruins bossing way of progressing. But that's not at all what the game is about. To some that's fun but you should find out what your wife likes in the game.  Maybe can fit her a character that specializes in that.  Because every character plays the game differently.  Your priorities are not always the same each play through. And you will find the fun on your own. It may not always be the combat oriented route that most tend to fall into. 

Inherently DST is more sandboxy  where it's up to the player to set goals to do.  It's only as you get better at the game do you figure out how much stuff there actually is to do that combat oriented stuff is only a small fraction. 

My wife is very combat oriented in all games but DST is a game that requires prep before the battle, prep for bosses requires heavy resource gathering especially if you arnt a kiting pro which is hard enough to achieve on consoles even for me. 

She has gravitated towards playing Willow as all strong headed women do  so I've directed her how to use big bernie to help us out and how to make sure to have 2 of the same type of armour at all times before starting a fight.. all the basics.

I do think she would enjoy base building but on consoles its so hard to accurately place things and while split screen on our moderately decent size 55inch TV all the icons are very very hard for her to read, I didn't realise the icon muscle memory I have but for her she can't tell what's what.

I don't think switch has options to help out split screen icon size/descriptions but be nice to be proven wrong.

[hyoton123]

4 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

My wife is very combat oriented in all games but DST is a game that requires prep before the battle, prep for bosses requires heavy resource gathering especially if you arnt a kiting pro which is hard enough to achieve on consoles even for me. 

Did she try wigfrid?

[Hollow soul 3]

If she doesn't like gathering, Maxwell, Wickerbotom, and Wurt are some great picks if she can get past the knowledge curve 

[Gashzer]

18 minutes ago, AliceShiki said:

Not every game genre is for everyone. If the person doesn't like survival/sandbox games, then the game just isn't for them, and that's fine.

I get that but DST is very nostalgic to me and we all want to share our hobbies with our partners.

5 minutes ago, hyoton123 said:

Did she try wigfrid?

I was playing wigfrid 

[NPCMaxwell]

I have the same problem that when I got my friend to install the DST on his switch so he or his wife could play together with me, all I here is: Boring! Because I just tend to tell them to pick up stuff and follow me around and to eat stuff (or forcefeed them). And same with my friend who it‘s hard to explain on PC how to use the inventory.

But sadly I don‘t really know how to help people since I have little ideas how to actually play /together/ yet either. (still trying to figure this out though I have lots of idea for sabotaging gameplay with my modded Maxwell lol)

 

I know I personally would not even LIKE the idea, but maybe a bunch of „tutorial world“ settings with „quests“ could help? At least it would help my remote-computer playing friend who struggles with the inventory so much I kind of feel too stressed to play with him so far.

[DegenerateFurry]

The game's biggest flaw is that it sucks at teaching new players how to play it, for sure.

[Well-met]

let's not pretend klei hasn't done countless things in recent years specifically cattered toward new players.

[hyoton123]

37 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

I was playing wigfrid 

My man.

[Mike23Ua]

The problem specifically with DST is that as you pointed out: it’s a game about collecting stuff while very few actual threats challenge you in the process in the collecting of this stuff, and WHY are you collecting this stuff?

To prepare for (mostly entirely optional) bosses or build a big pretty base.

Thats it, that’s all there is to it, but when you go back in time and you play solo DS or more importantly it’s DLC’s there was ALWAYS something SOMEWHERE that challenged you, for example: Maybe your low on wood and need to chop a tree to build a campfire to survive nightfall, but uh oh… a Scorpion or Snake came out of the tree and you now have to deal with that too! All while dancing around in circles trying to fight it and also fuel your campfire.

This is just one example, but there’s also smashing pots, flipping over stones, harvesting tall grass etc that always lead to the player actually needing to interact with and fight or run away from something.

With DST you don’t really have that, and no joke early game is just a collect-a-thon, to build base structures so you can prototype gear to fight optional raid bosses.

[Walrusst]

I had an idea for more items like the ammo pouch/wendies basket that give you thematic filters when you have them that act as both a small storage for baubles and bloated items, but also as walking tutorials for what things you might want to carry for a given role/job. (Along with a rework of overly specialized storage's to make them more convenient to use rather than pausing every few seconds to rummage them by designating a single inventory slot as a hold open slot.)

Since the combination of storage+item filter would do a great job of helping people parse item categories and synthesize goals (Along with a few that are just oriented to making niche resources less of a burden on your inventory, or just general survival,) and also help people be less married to their backpacks (Since if they are good with pouches they can wear a breezy vest finally.)
Things like a messengers bag for your compass and flares, a beard bandoleer for torches, fishing rods, and other rod shaped non-sharp won't kill you if you wear them items, and the like.

The version I posted in suggestions may be a bit too complicated, but my convolutions there are simply are there as a way to buff pouches that are too specialized, and items which are too early game/niche to see use normally.

 

9 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

The problem specifically with DST is that as you pointed out: it’s a game about collecting stuff while very few actual threats challenge you in the process in the collecting of this stuff, and WHY are you collecting this stuff?

This is just one example, but there’s also smashing pots, flipping over stones, harvesting tall grass etc that always lead to the player actually needing to interact with and fight or run away from something.

The content island problem where there is usually a large gap between the things you want and things that make you feel under pressure is one of the bigger challenges we face broadly speaking.

I would just love if things we wanted in a renewable form were more clustered tightly in the areas with minor threats where 2-3 desirable things were locked in a closet next to an area where bats and danglers might harass you for example.

Instead the second biggest cache of thulecites almost fully unguarded for you to rummage on your way to the ruins, you can shovel every stone fruit without anything taking offense to your behavior, 75% of figs are away from the dangler nests, and the guano biomes empty.

[NPCMaxwell]

I would welcome a sort of new adventure modes for players that you could show to your friends (not necessary of tutorial character). Just to show that there is interesting stuff in DST.

E.g. a portal that would carry you to an ocean-only map, ruins only map, etc. and the only „goal“ would be collecting things and find a teleportato again. Not quests.

(Ooooor if you want to focus on the Wagstaff / Charlie NPC thing then an equivalent for their worlds)

[DegenerateFurry]

36 minutes ago, Well-met said:

let's not pretend klei hasn't done countless things in recent years specifically cattered toward new players.

Like what, the scrapbook? It's a decent start, but it's not nearly enough.

[Well-met]

Just now, DegenerateFurry said:

Like what, the scrapbook? It's a decent start, but it's not nearly enough.

aswell as adding many items, abilities and buffs designed around making the game easier.

Reminder that winter used to halt all veggie production not so long ago.

[Uedo]

Yeah same situation with my other half - i've got him to play sooo many times, but he's just not a fan. 

It's completely understandable though, the game is a bit niche and whilst some of it's themes and designs are great, overall it's unintuitive and truthfully, a bit dull compared to other games in this genre.