THING I HATE ABOUT WILLOW!

[Kacpert25]

Okay, I may have exaggerated with the title of this post, but it's definitely something that irritates me quite a bit.

Namely, it is an Ethereal Embers graphic.

When Willow's spell interface opens, a red filter is applied to the item. It just looks ugly and unfinished.

I would like to remind that Willow's spell interface looked equally ugly at the beginning of the beta, but unlike Ethereal Embers, this one has been graphically improved.

Willow's skill tree beta was almost a year and a half ago, and Ethereal Embers' graphics were ugly back then and remain ugly to this day.

This should definitely be improved. Ethereal Embers should have an animation when the spell interface is opened and changing color from gray to yellow-orange.

[reDink]

 

What bothers me besides this, which is a visual detail

is that because she was one of the first to receive the skill tree, she didn't have any container to store more than 40 embers, for example Wendy has her basket, Wortox his pot, Walter his ammo pouch, etc.

It would be really interesting to have a QoL update in which Willow could carry a container to store more than 40 embers, like a jar WE... even if it's only possible to carry only one!

[Cheggf]

10 minutes ago, reDink said:

 

What bothers me besides this, which is a visual detail

is that because she was one of the first to receive the skill tree, she didn't have any container to store more than 40 embers, for example Wendy has her basket, Wortox his pot, Walter his ammo pouch, etc.

It would be really interesting to have a QoL update in which Willow could carry a container to store more than 40 embers, like a jar WE... even if it's only possible to carry only one!

Wigfrid literally got her skill tree in the exact same update and she gained a container. Release date has nothing to do with who gets containers. Wigfrid has a container because she has 10 different songs she can use. Walter has a container because he has 17 different ammos he can use. Wendy has a container because she has 9 different potions she can use. Wortox has a container because he can't hold more than one stack of souls, and attempting to do so will make him lose all of his souls since souls can't be dropped on the ground.

Willow has nothing like this. She only has one type of ember, she can hold as many as she wants, and they don't instantly disappear when dropped. There is no reason for there to be a container. 

[Swiyss]

5 hours ago, reDink said:

 

What bothers me besides this, which is a visual detail

is that because she was one of the first to receive the skill tree, she didn't have any container to store more than 40 embers, for example Wendy has her basket, Wortox his pot, Walter his ammo pouch, etc.

It would be really interesting to have a QoL update in which Willow could carry a container to store more than 40 embers, like a jar WE... even if it's only possible to carry only one!

omg I was literally going to say that! It's very important that she gets a container to store her embers.

5 hours ago, Cheggf said:

Wigfrid literally got her skill tree in the exact same update and she gained a container. Release date has nothing to do with who gets containers. Wigfrid has a container because she has 10 different songs she can use. Walter has a container because he has 17 different ammos he can use. Wendy has a container because she has 9 different potions she can use. Wortox has a container because he can't hold more than one stack of souls, and attempting to do so will make him lose all of his souls since souls can't be dropped on the ground.

Willow has nothing like this. She only has one type of ember, she can hold as many as she wants, and they don't instantly disappear when dropped. There is no reason for there to be a container. 

They should make Embers stack to at least 80 then.

[shaurun]

5 hours ago, reDink said:

 

What bothers me besides this, which is a visual detail

is that because she was one of the first to receive the skill tree, she didn't have any container to store more than 40 embers, for example Wendy has her basket, Wortox his pot, Walter his ammo pouch, etc.

It would be really interesting to have a QoL update in which Willow could carry a container to store more than 40 embers, like a jar WE... even if it's only possible to carry only one!

It would be nice to store embers in lighter and automatically collect embers into it. And lighter could be autofueled with embers inside and emit more light depending on how many embers it stores.

Actually storing embers in lighter and casting with lighter instead of embers will solve Willow's sorcerer issues. Nobody will be able to tell it it's magic or science.

[Swiyss]

One thing I hate about Willow is how bad Bearnie upgrades are. The only great Bearnie skill imo is the lunar and shadow affinities that gives him planar protection. The sanity threshold skills doesn't make sense to me, it would be way better to put these skills inside his affinity. Let me explain.

For example, upgrading Lunar Bearnie would make bearnie lift up every time there's a shadow alligned creature nearby independent of Willow's sanity and vice-versa. Then 2 skills could be added that followed her affinity, very simple ones indeed - 1 for making shadow bearnie activate when you're enlightened (any %), and another that would put lunar bearnie's threshold to 100 sanity, and lunar bearnie would be able to get rid of shadows completely, and also fight bosses without interuption from stupid shadows all the time. Another skill that's missing from her tree is the sanity control. There should be a lunar skill that regenerates Willows sanity a bit when bearnie kill shadow creatures, and another that allowed shadow bearnie to pacify shadow creatures (crawling horror, terrorbeaks, NOT shadow alligned creatures such as clockworks and boss enemies).

Bearnie's current skills are useless too, making him faster has 0 impact on how quick he kills shadows, it just makes him miss more hits unironically, because of how shadow creatures keep teleporting after a hit. His regen ability is hard to maintain, and I would much rather have a SPECIFIC ITEM similar to the sewing kit, but designed for willow that would allow us to patch him while he's up or something. It's kinda ridiculous that current Willow players will bring 2 bearnies to fights instead of a sewing kit, goes to show how her skill tree has a bunch of gaps to be fixed. Him having more hp is a great skill though.

What they missed on Willow I believe was just some touch ups for people that play her. She's missing a lot of thematic skills.

Why is her ember shadow alligned skill just about damage? This skill could scare close enemies when used as to make more sense. And why this skill has no red in it? It has planar damage, right?

Also, the queen is buffing bearnie, but the only way to put bearnie on fire is to give up on the ember shadow skill. And putting bearnie on-fire is his coolest skill, but I have to give up on biden blast which is just not worth it. And why can't willow set herself on fire? Why is the Burning Frenzy skill almost impossible to see in Winter? I have no IDEA if I still have that skill up after some time or not, since the effect is so dim and could've been way cooler, like having actual fire around her. 

Another thing too is how the brighter lighter skill is a complete scam. brighter lighter 1 makes the lighter range way bigger, a little bit smaller than a lantern, and then brighter lighter 2 is literally a light on top of another one. That's how lazy it is, it just appears lighter, but it's the same as having a lantern and a miner hat at the same time, except that both are the same lenght,

Spontaneous combustion is another scam, it's a skill to trick new willow players into leveling it up and using it. Flame cast is a skill that already comes with her ember skill, and it does the exact same thing, but it costs 1 ember instead of 4. The only REAL use of spontaneous combustion is if you have literally all the range filled with bees.

It's not about her having a container, is about her having skills that make sense with her playstyle.

Also she's missing a bunch of QoL. She can't ignite bernie with a fire staff, burning bernie and burning frenzy will run out too quickly. Basically the time I lose lightning up bearnie and activating burning frenzy is already enough to mitigate the added damage I would do, it's a failed skill tree imo. I can't fight Klaus with burning bernie too cause the deer keeps hitting him and taking damage. He'll drag attention from enemies but not bosses. There's also the fact that she can't even benefit from burning frenzy in half of the fights. All nightmare creatures can't be put on fire (even though there's black fire in-game) and most damp mobs are immune to fire. The fact that I have to deal with nightmare creature hitting bearnie because I can't spawn him unless my sanity is below 60 (which is enough for them to spawn) just make them join the fight and slowly kill bernie while also taking his attention away from bosses.

[Bumber64]

7 hours ago, reDink said:

is that because she was one of the first to receive the skill tree, she didn't have any container to store more than 40 embers, for example Wendy has her basket, Wortox his pot, Walter his ammo pouch, etc.

Wortox's jar stores... 40 souls.

[Cheggf]

11 hours ago, astareus said:

They should make Embers stack to at least 80 then.

Why? If they added a container that holds 40 embers how would that be any better than an inventory slot that holds 40 and a container that holds 40? Why should her embers stack to a ridiculous amount? Just use two inventory slots if you want to mindlessly spam spells without needing to even think about recovering embers. Even with just a single stack of embers without ever claiming a single one from any of the enemies you kill that's some combination of 20 minutes of a damage bonus, 20 days of dwarf stars, 40 casts of Flame Cast, 10 casts of Combustion, or 8 casts of her strongest affinity spells. Wortox, who's containers do not hold 80 souls and only hold 40, can literally go through an entire stack of souls with a single return trip soul hop. If he doesn't have the jar it can be possible for him to physically be unable to hold enough souls to make a return trip, and his soul hop would be forced to be one-way.

[Swiyss]

10 hours ago, Cheggf said:

Why? If they added a container that holds 40 embers how would that be any better than an inventory slot that holds 40 and a container that holds 40? Why should her embers stack to a ridiculous amount? Just use two inventory slots if you want to mindlessly spam spells without needing to even think about recovering embers. Even with just a single stack of embers without ever claiming a single one from any of the enemies you kill that's some combination of 20 minutes of a damage bonus, 20 days of dwarf stars, 40 casts of Flame Cast, 10 casts of Combustion, or 8 casts of her strongest affinity spells. Wortox, who's containers do not hold 80 souls and only hold 40, can literally go through an entire stack of souls with a single return trip soul hop. If he doesn't have the jar it can be possible for him to physically be unable to hold enough souls to make a return trip, and his soul hop would be forced to be one-way.

Why you say? Because we see other skill trees having a lot of love and passion involved, yet wigfrid, willow, wolfgang, wilson etc.. are skill trees that need more care. I want something going on for embers, it basically *feels* not right to use embers, what if there was a new item for example like a locket that you could put bernie inside, and use the item to invoke him like wendy does, and we would get a % of his hp.

[Cheggf]

4 minutes ago, astareus said:

Why you say? Because we see other skill trees having a lot of love and passion involved, yet wigfrid, willow, wolfgang, wilson etc.. are skill trees that need more care. I want something going on for embers, it basically *feels* not right to use embers, what if there was a new item for example like a locket that you could put bernie inside, and use the item to invoke him like wendy does, and we would get a % of his hp.

The loving and passionate thing to do would be the exact opposite of what you're saying and lowering the amount of embers she can hold to 0, instead giving her an actual Willow skill tree instead of the most boring, lazy, uninspired mod character Wortox ripoff they possibly could have.

[Swiyss]

5 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

The loving and passionate thing to do would be the exact opposite of what you're saying and lowering the amount of embers she can hold to 0, instead giving her an actual Willow skill tree instead of the most boring, lazy, uninspired mod character Wortox ripoff they possibly could have.

yeah if we're being real honest and sincere here, most people that came back to the game after these years was completely caught off-guard by how insane her magic spells were. People saw videos on youtube of willow soloing entire raid bosses with 5 stacks of embers and a very hard salty cheese method and were stunned by it. 

This little survival game turned upside down real quick, I myself told them in the beta how crazy that was for the game at the time, but I guess it was too late maybe to come back.

They've been real nice by adding the ability to direct lunar raiser fire with your cursor atleast, which is something I asked for and it was great cause it meant the skill was actually a skill.

[SpookyXy]

8 hours ago, astareus said:

Why you say? Because we see other skill trees having a lot of love and passion involved, yet wigfrid, willow, wolfgang, wilson etc.. are skill trees that need more care. I want something going on for embers, it basically *feels* not right to use embers, what if there was a new item for example like a locket that you could put bernie inside, and use the item to invoke him like wendy does, and we would get a % of his hp.

Unbelievable to lump Willow's skill tree with Wolfgang and Wilson and say it lacks care and passion.

[Gashzer]

Burning bernie is massively underrated. If you want a better version of Wendy just play burning bernie Willow. Lunar flame is overrated, it's useful for a couple bosses like bee queen, AFW and crabking but for general everyday use against daily mobs then burning bernie is 100% better. You end up with so much nightmare fuel you can craft night armour and dark swords for days and just straight-up tank bosses.

The most dangerous horde mobs in the game are shadow creatures in the ruins which burning bernie eats for breakfast, so i ask... Abigail who? 

[Swiyss]

3 hours ago, Gashzer said:

Burning bernie is massively underrated. If you want a better version of Wendy just play burning bernie Willow. Lunar flame is overrated, it's useful for a couple bosses like bee queen, AFW and crabking but for general everyday use against daily mobs then burning bernie is 100% better. You end up with so much nightmare fuel you can craft night armour and dark swords for days and just straight-up tank bosses.

The most dangerous horde mobs in the game are shadow creatures in the ruins which burning bernie eats for breakfast, so i ask... Abigail who? 

You have 0 IDEA of what you're talking about. It's LITERALLY the exact opposite of everything you said. Do you even play Willow?

Lunar flare will take easy care of bees, hounds, pigs, krampus etc. Just 1 use of flame cast + lunar flare will get you enough embers back from a hound attack, and you'll be dealing with them completely with 1 cast. 1 cast will also completely destroy a level 3 spider nest with all the spiders in it in less than 5 seconds. Lunar flare is not overrated, it's a very very great skill. It's even arguably great against single target enemies since you can attack them for far away in between casts, kiting and repositioning.

Burning bernie is absolutely horrible, it's a skill that you have to sacrifice your ember spell to get, and you're forced to level up bernie being 15% faster which is a horrible filler scam skill. This ability will last a terribly small windows and you'll basically use 40 embers of flame cast in a single dfly fight, only for him to do like 50 damage every dfly attack. Burning bernie is great against hordes of planar enemies like moon and regular frogs from rain, spiders etc.. But you know what else is AoE, deals more damage quicker, doesn't require you to be below 60 sanity and is instant? LUNAR FLARE you dum dum. 

And you should realize that you don't really need burning bernie to still fight nightmare creature with him right? You can have lunar flare and kill all those nightmares while bernie is tanking them. Bernie's affinity is enough for that. Burning bernie is a terrible skill.

4 hours ago, SpookyXy said:

Unbelievable to lump Willow's skill tree with Wolfgang and Wilson and say it lacks care and passion.

It's just missing some things, but it IS comparable with them. Wigfrid's skill tree is also in a bad spot.

I believe Willow's skill tree has a bunch of flaws, and when you actually analyze the skill itself, it doesn't make sense at all. All bernie skills are arguably bad except for the sanity threshold which they made into 3 skills, brighter lighter 2 is a scam since it's one light on top of another, and they also made spontaneous combustion, which does the same as flame cast, but it costs more for some reason. And the fire damage is not enough overtime. There's a lack of fire related skills, we have 2 skills that put enemies on fires that cost embers when you can literally use the lighter. Burning frenzy and Fire ball are the only great skills from that side.

The whole tree is carried by the art they made on bernie and lunar/shadow fire raiser skills.

If you actually take a look at Wilson, his whole tree is also carried by the fact that he got the beard slot for food, and the transmutation side which everyone basically max out. Wolfgang skill tree is the worst skill tree ever so I don't think it can compare, but you get the idea.

13 minutes ago, astareus said:

LUNAR FLARE you dum dum. 

You can kill 12 beefalos with 2 casts, and you'll get all embers back with flame cast. You can kill all penguins from a raid as well. You can literally dance on bee queen's grave with lunar raiser, she's lunch and dinner for you every 20 days or so. You're completely ignoring sea creatures that are too far from your boat, you can agro almost anything in the game from almost a screen away etc..

Burning bernie is hard to ignite with the lighter all the time since you'll be wasting precious time you can spend hitting the enemy instead or casting lunar raiser. And again, as I said before, you WILL burn through your embers very quickly if you decide to use flame cast instead, since burning bernie lasts only 20 seconds, that's 3 embers per minute to maintain. It's a headache really. And trust me, I tried it, I inhaled DANGEROUS AMOUNTS of copium since it's release to try to convince myself it's a great skill, but it isn't.

Also, to get burning bernie, you have to sacrifice fire ball or burning frenzy, and I rather have both. Or you can just do less damage with fire as well. Then, what's the reason to get this skill anyways? You'll be wanting to deal more damage, so burning frenzy is a must, and fire damage will add up overtime and will also kill anything on fire 2 times faster. And you'll be losing the lighter range (brighter lighter 1) which is a nice thing to have on day 1.

You can argue that you want things to not die on fire quicker like grumble bees to have more time stunned, but that math doesn't add up, it doesn't make sense. You're getting embers back if they die by fire anyway so you're not wasting more embers, you're just applying the fire more often, which will be the exact time Bee Queen will lose the fire on her so you'll have to reapply it on her anyways. Klei have to take a look at her later. But that doesn't make Wigfrid or Wilson or Wolfgang any worse, it just means that all of them need a second care. And trust me, the idea of "I need it more than him" is kinda selfish, like, "don't talk about willow since there are more urgent and worse skill trees out there", I believe there's time for everyone.

[Swiyss]

You can also argue that you won't need brighter lighter 1, and that a lantern will do the job for you, but that's not true. A lantern will have to be refilled all the time with light bulbs, that's 2 inv slots already, for an item that does the exact same thing the lighter does. The lighter will need to be re-filled as well, but it last way way more, and you're gonna want to carry Embes anyways. You can also argue that the lantern can be dropped, but the lighter will light enemies on fire in the night too, and if you're fighting nightmare creatures, you certainly should have moggles or a miner hat, and even if you don't, dropping a cut grass and lighting it on fire will do the job, and there's no way that you won't have fire ball as well so you can literally just cast a star caller there. It's impossible to argue against the validity of this skill.

[Gashzer]

26 minutes ago, astareus said:

Snip

Another example of mains who don't know their mains 

Embers take up a lot of inventory space whereas burning bernie with speed 2 doesn't need any inventory if you plan to have bernie out 24/7. Bernie speed 2 allows bernie to consistently outrun crawling horrors allowing him to regen without needing a sewing kit and keep up with you reliably even if you have mag/cane.

Burning bernie Willow isn't meant to use bernie to fight bosses, how burning bernie helps willow during boss fights is allowing better farming of nightmare fuel so you can spam night armour/dark swords/dread armour with big burning bernie farming nightmare fuel if you go insane as you fight the boss.

Burning bernie means you no longer need to farm bees and waste 5 slots on embers. Lunar flame is good but it's less reliable than burning bernie for all horde fights. It's easy to relight bernie on fire if you are near him with lighter or flame cast if at a distance. With speed 2 bernie he's gonna be right beside you most of the time.

Speed 2 bernie is also underrated.... saying bernie speed are filler skills further shows you have no idea what you are on about and are another sheep DST player.

[Swiyss]

33 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Bernie speed 2 allows bernie to consistently outrun crawling horrors allowing him to regen without needing a sewing kit and keep up with you reliably even if you have mag/cane.

Okay, then they're going to reach you anyways at some point.

33 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Embers take up a lot of inventory space

You don't need 5 stacks of embers, 1 stack + a hambat is enough for every single fight in the game -with lunar raiser- except for toadstool and maybe, maybe his misery variant only if you're deciding to kill it.

33 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Burning bernie Willow isn't meant to use bernie to fight bosses, how burning bernie helps willow during boss fights is allowing better farming of nightmare fuel so you can spam night armour/dark swords/dread armour with big burning bernie farming nightmare fuel if you go insane as you fight the boss.

You can still do the exact same thing by simply carrying 2 bernies and having a lunar affinity + lunar raiser. You can kill fuelweaver with 25 embers, 2 bernies, and you don't even need a nightmare amulet, just 1 use of the lazy explorer will cancel it's stun and 2 lunar bernies are more than enough to tank all shadows you want for 4 cycles even. You don't *need* burning bernie. Also, let's consider that you would have to kill the little head and claw healers, and doing so with lunar raiser is easy, but with burning bernie, not only you don't have the lunar raiser, but you need to use weather pains, and if you don't use weather pains, you're gonna wanna drag fuelweaver around the arena while kiting his bone prison and destroying unseen hands, but then you'll need to calm down bernie, and if you calm down bernie then you're gonna wanna have a nightmare fuel + sanity food anyways which is MORE COSTLY than what you presented here. And again, the idea of him being a tank that "destroys" hordes of enemies still doesn't add up because lunar raiser does the exact. same. thing. I have 0 idea if you're just trolling or you don't know what you're talking about.

33 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Burning bernie means you no longer need to farm bees and waste 5 slots on embers. Lunar flame is good but it's less reliable than burning bernie for all horde fights. It's easy to relight bernie on fire if you are near him with lighter or flame cast if at a distance. With speed 2 bernie he's gonna be right beside you most of the time.

Speed 2 bernie is also underrated.... saying bernie speed are filler skills further shows you have no idea what you are on about and are another sheep DST player.

Yeah you're just trolling at this point. Sure I have 0 idea what I'm talking about.

30% movespeed on a creature that runs faster than you with a magi and a cane already when you're too far from it...................................................

Yeah I actually use 10 inventory slots for embers probably right? 5 is not enough right, is not like I can use lunar raiser 40 times with that amount of embers. It's not like that's 40.000 damage with 5 embers stacks and 80k with 10 stacks, but burning bernie is better, he can probably do way more damage with that. But that's not enough man, 10 embers stack not only will take me days and days to acquire, but would also not be enough to solo misery toadstool with only ember, while waiting the cooldown in-between casts. Lunar fire should be buffed really cause it's so overrated and stronger than people think it is, so why isn't Klei just buffing it's damage?

Why is Klei not nerfing burning bernie? It's a completely broken and overrated skill. It's not like I need to give up on 2 spells on my lighter AND my lighter cast right? That would be terrible I believe. It's not like it only does additional damage if the creature attacks him right? It's not like bernie can do the exact same thing without it, but with my assistance with lunar flare, making it even better right? It's not like a summoner bernie style doesn't work currently, cause it literally does less damage than only using fire raiser....... right?

I guess I should spend another thousand hours on Willow to ACTUALLY realize that burning bernie is actually underrated and overpowered and probably the best skill in her tree.

Honestly, I think I'm mistaken actually. I think what I should do, is actually carry 2 bernies with me, and 6 sewing kits, and take 10 days longer to clear the ruins without even interacting right? I should be doing this all along right?

It's not like there's an item in the game called shadow thurible, and it's not like it can attract the reanimated skeleton around the ruins for him to clear them. It's not like I can deal with nightmare creatures with the bone helm, and it's not like I can have 10 Night Berries or 40 Embers to invoke fire ball with me and clear the whole ruins without lifting a single finger, not wasting a single use of a star staff, any equipment percentage lost, any healing, and I would also be able to destroy all monkeys and their homes, plus reanimated skeleton will be closer to the ruins so he'll do bone cage that will one shot monkeys and lock in clockwork rooks. It's not like if he dies, he'll drop nightmare fuel, which will refuel the thurible itself, and it's not like it costs literally 0 resources to respawn him, and it's not like I'll get six times the amount of thulecite fragments doing this. It's not like it's quicker than bernie, but also can be done with any character. It's not like It's cheaper than bernie, and I can still use Lunar flare while holding the thurible. It's not like this method not only is a better summon than bernie, but burning bernie will take longer, require more maintenance, require flame cast every 20 seconds or risk getting hit by clockworks trying to follow him to ignite him with a lighter, he can't break thulecite walls.

[Gashzer]

14 minutes ago, astareus said:

Okay, then they're going to reach you anyways at some point.

You don't need 5 stacks of embers, 1 stack + a hambat is enough for every single fight in the game -with lunar raiser- except for toadstool and maybe, maybe his misery variant only if you're deciding to kill it.

You can still do the exact same thing by simply carrying 2 bernies and having a lunar affinity + lunar raiser. You can kill fuelweaver with 25 embers, 2 bernies, and you don't even need a nightmare amulet, just 1 use of the lazy explorer will cancel it's stun and 2 lunar bernies are more than enough to tank all shadows you want for 4 cycles even. You don't *need* burning bernie. Also, let's consider that you would have to kill the little head and claw healers, and doing so with lunar raiser is easy, but with burning bernie, not only you don't have the lunar raiser, but you need to use weather pains, and if you don't use weather pains, you're gonna wanna drag fuelweaver around the arena while kiting his bone prison and destroying unseen hands, but then you'll need to calm down bernie, and if you calm down bernie then you're gonna wanna have a nightmare fuel + sanity food anyways which is MORE COSTLY than what you presented here. And again, the idea of him being a tank that "destroys" hordes of enemies still doesn't add up because lunar raiser does the exact. same. thing. I have 0 idea if you're just trolling or you don't know what you're talking about.

Yeah you're just trolling at this point. Sure I have 0 idea what I'm talking about.

30% movespeed on a creature that runs faster than you with a magi and a cane already when you're too far from it...................................................

Yeah I actually use 10 inventory slots for embers probably right? 5 is not enough right, is not like I can use lunar raiser 40 times with that amount of embers. It's not like that's 40.000 damage with 5 embers stacks and 80k with 10 stacks, but burning bernie is better, he can probably do way more damage with that. But that's not enough man, 10 embers stack not only will take me days and days to acquire, but would also not be enough to solo misery toadstool with only ember, while waiting the cooldown in-between casts. Lunar fire should be buffed really cause it's so overrated and stronger than people think it is, so why isn't Klei just buffing it's damage?

Why is Klei not nerfing burning bernie? It's a completely broken and overrated skill. It's not like I need to give up on 2 spells on my lighter AND my lighter cast right? That would be terrible I believe. It's not like it only does additional damage if the creature attacks him right? It's not like bernie can do the exact same thing without it, but with my assistance with lunar flare, making it even better right? It's not like a summoner bernie style doesn't work currently, cause it literally does less damage than only using fire raiser....... right?

I guess I should spend another thousand hours on Willow to ACTUALLY realize that burning bernie is actually underrated and overpowered and probably the best skill in her tree.

Burning bernie is better because there is exactly zero grind for embers or sewing kit and you have access to the strongest AOE follower in the game from day 1

[Swiyss]

1 minute ago, Gashzer said:

Burning bernie is better because there is exactly zero grind for embers or sewing kit and you have access to the strongest AOE follower in the game from day 1

Yeah except that you have the strongest AoE cast in the game with lunar raiser. And you can still use lunar alligned bernie. But you can't have burning bernie and lunar raiser at the same time.

Nah dude it's ok. It's not like 1 flame cast on the 6 bees from the guaranteed killer hive will get you 6 embers, It's not like you can kill birds and bunnies with flame cast and get 1 ember back doing so. It's not like you're gonna fight spiders anyways right? I believe I should let them turn to queens and not even get silk right? It's not like tallbirds drop 3 and can't attack me while they're on-fire. I should probably use my embers elsewhere.

OH WAIT, I KNOW. I think I'm gonna use flame cast on bernie every 20 seconds. That should be a great use. It's not like embers come free from almost all creatures and bosses I'm going to inevitably kill at some point, so I shouldn't bother using them, nor even getting them.

Bro, it's not like using flame cast + lunar flare will take 6 embers, and a level 3 spider den will give you 9 embers back, and clear them in literally 3 to 5 seconds. I should rather lose sanity on purpose, put bernie down, then light him on fire, and take 15 seconds instead while also helping him destroy the den, and If I decide to go full summon and let him deal with it, then it will take 1 minute cause the den won't fight back, while not being able to use 2 other ember spells and my ember cast affinity cause I sacrificed all of that to get burning bernie.

It's not like frog rain can be attracted by lunar bernie without burning bernie, and it's not like I can use lunar raiser on them too. It's not like I can even use beefalos and meese/geese as better bernies, and still be able to one-shot moslings completely even before they enrage with only 1 cast, something I wouldn't be able do to with burning bernie.

It's not light burning bernie should actually be stronger, like, maybe making it last 60 seconds instead, and allowing for close-by damage from enemies, and it's not like it should cost actually 7 bernie skills to unlock instead of 8 forcing me to level up accelerant for 15% movespeed on a creature faster than you with a walking cane + magi ALREADY. It's not Klei should allow burning bernie to be more tanky than regular bernie. It's not like it takes 2 bernies and 4 whole sewing kits and 5 more days to kill dfly with only bernies, making him a bad summon only addition. I should probably just... fight alongside him? Yeah, without my ember cast... and... maybe without fire ball or burning frenzy? Or maybe I should sacrifice double damage from fires... Nah I think I should sacrifice making my lighter an actual lantern, and using fire ball, cause they're both trash anyways. I think I should just take a lantern instead and light bulbs for 2 additional inventory slots on a character that literally controls fire and has a lighter. Sure I don't need ways to get light, I have burning bernie lighting the area for me, It's not like I can burn the enemy itself for him to light it up, oh shoot, yeah I remembered.. I sacrificed fire ball, so I can't put that on the ground, maybe I should just keep lighting bernie, but I'll need to be insane, and he has to be maintained every 20 seconds.

[Gashzer]

15 minutes ago, astareus said:

Yeah except that you have the strongest AoE cast in the game with lunar raiser. And you can still use lunar alligned bernie. But you can't have burning bernie and lunar raiser at the same time.

Nah dude it's ok. It's not like 1 flame cast on the 6 bees from the guaranteed killer hive will get you 6 embers, It's not like you can kill birds and bunnies with flame cast and get 1 ember back doing so. It's not like you're gonna fight spiders anyways right? I believe I should let them turn to queens and not even get silk right? It's not like tallbirds drop 3 and can't attack me while they're on-fire. I should probably use my embers elsewhere.

OH WAIT, I KNOW. I think I'm gonna use flame cast on bernie every 20 seconds. That should be a great use. It's not like embers come free from almost all creatures and bosses I'm going to inevitably kill at some point, so I shouldn't bother using them, nor even getting them.

Lunar raiser requires you to farm 6 bees. With burning bernie you dont need to farm anything. This is what makes it better.

With 30% boosted speed, big bernie is always right beside me so I don't need to use flame cast on bernie every 20secs, takes half a sec to relight him with brighter lighter lvl 2 willows lighter.

I've played both full mage willow and full bernie Willow, and tbh lunar raiser is just not worth the grind. Burning bernie gives me the ability to farm huge amounts of resources from spiders, splumonkeys and ruins nightmare creatures without needing to worry about making sure they are on fire first to get embers or going out of my way to find killer bees biome to waste 5 slots on embers. 

Yes lunar raiser is great for AFW and bee queen but ill rather fight them as a glorified Wilson than lose burning bernie in my day to day. 

[Swiyss]

9 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Lunar raiser requires you to farm 6 bees. With burning bernie you dont need to farm anything. This is what makes it better.

You're killing hounds, pigs, spiders, moleworms, tallbirds, bees, tree guards anyways. You'll have to do that at one point, if not you're not even playing the game, and if you do that, you'll get 5 stacks of ember which will allow you to kill, guess what, 5 bosses. And you'll get embers back from most bosses anyway. You just don't understand the recycling you can do.

11 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

With 30% boosted speed, big bernie is always right beside me so I don't need to use flame cast on bernie every 20secs, takes half a sec to relight him with brighter lighter lvl 2 willows lighter.

My friend, can't you see, that you'll be sacrificing, fire ball, or burning frenzy, which are her best ember skills, just to get, bernie, 15%, f, a, s, t, e, r, when I can do the same, without it.

12 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

I've played both full mage willow and full bernie Willow, and tbh lunar raiser is just not worth the grind. Burning bernie gives me the ability to farm huge amounts of resources from spiders, splumonkeys and ruins nightmare creatures without needing to worry about making sure they are on fire first to get embers or going out of my way to find killer bees biome to waste 5 slots on embers. 

You don't understand... Burning bernie is not bad in theory. It's bad in practice. Anyone reading this can literally go in a testing world, try clearing the ruins/forests from splumonkeys and clockworks/spiders and realize that not only lunar raiser + lunar bernie are quicker, but also LESS expensive, because you won't be sacrificing a bunch of lighter QoL skills for it.

You get the embers back from clearing those......

And you can still heal bernie without burning bernie, you can still have a tanky 2600 hp bernie without burning bernie, you can still use your stupid 30% more movespeed without burning bernie.

[Gashzer]

8 minutes ago, astareus said:

You're killing hounds, pigs, spiders, moleworms, tallbirds, bees, tree guards anyways. You'll have to do that at one point, if not you're not even playing the game, and if you do that, you'll get 5 stacks of ember which will allow you to kill, guess what, 5 bosses. And you'll get embers back from most bosses anyway. You just don't understand the recycling you can do.

Burning bernie deals with the average mob, I don't need to get my hands dirty.

8 minutes ago, astareus said:

My friend, can't you see, that you'll be sacrificing, fire ball, or burning frenzy, which are her best ember skills, just to get, bernie, 15%, f, a, s, t, e, r, when I can do the same, without it.

My comrade, can't you see, with brighter lighter 2 and burning bernie, you don't need fireball whatsoever. Lighting mobs on fire or burnie bernie himself gives off enough light.

Burning frenzy? 25% damage, big woop ill rather have a million an one night armours from all the excessive nightmare fuel farming that burning bernie does.

Increased damage is overrated, the best offence is a good defence.

[Swiyss]

31 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Burning bernie deals with the average mob, I don't need to get my hands dirty.

Regular bernie too, and I also don't need to get my hands dirty. And if there's too many mobs, literally 1 flame cast will put all of them on freak out mode and bernie can kill them 1 by 1 while I can focus the bigger mobs. Regular aligned bernie can also deal with every other mob, still have +600 hp, still have +2hp per second, and still get up at 60 sanity without the need to have burning bernie. It won't be quicker, but do the math my friend, you'll be getting 6 to 10 embers every time, with only 1 flame cast that costs 1 ember. What the heck are you using embers on if you don't have lunar raiser? And if you're not even farming embers, then you're gonna wanna have to manage bernie all the time.

You think it costs nothing to kill a lvl 3 spider den, but it does. It costs your affinity spell, plus 3 other spells from the lighter tree, it costs you having to be at 60 sanity, and it costs you having to reapply the burn on him every 21 seconds. If I want a summon that's stronger than me, and it's easier to kill things, I'll just play Wendy, use regular Abigail for all spider dens in the world, all pigs, all hound waves, and not even participate. Then when I'm ready to kill bosses, I'll let gabby kill them while I watch and eat popcorn, she'll do her 300 damage every 2 seconds, and I'll watch Deerclops die in 2 minutes. However I cannot do this with bernie, he'll take 5 minutes to kill deerclops with 4k hp, and I'll have to manage getting closer to him every 20 seconds to light him up if I'm not using flame cast, and If I am, thats 300 seconds divided by 20, that's 15 embers that you gotta farm to do that. Not only abi can do it and passively regen without the need of a skill tree, but she can also do raids like bernie, but better...

What's even more insane, is that without burning bernie, I can still let bernie attract the spiders, do 1 flame cast, kill the den, he won't lose hp, then spider will be 1 hit away from a hambat to die (something that wouldn't be possible with burning bernie because I would have to sacrifice taking the fire fighter skill which does double fire damage which we already talked about how it is unquestionably a great and necessary skill and won't put a dent in your ember supply or your time), and with 1 spider den, I'll have enought embers to go to the next den, hold flame cast, hit the den, cast flame cast on all of them (they will all be released from the den in 1 spot), wait 2 seconds for them to get far away from the den, remove the fire from the den, then do lunar raiser cast on all of them which will consequentially destroy the den and I'll be on a net positive of 3 embers and all of that took me basically 7 seconds and I don't have to be insane. Doing it with bernie will take me longer, and I won't get embers back, because enemies on-fire will not attack bernie, making bernie have to attack them one by one which would take like a minute and I would have to reapply the fire on them. I can literally clear a spider den faster than bernie with wilson while luring out the spiders 3 by 3, and I won't be needing to be insane.

31 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

My comrade, can't you see, with brighter lighter 2 and burning bernie, you don't need fireball whatsoever

LMAOO. My fellow friend, can't you see that you can't even have CONTROLLED BURNING WITH THIS SETUP LOL. It's literally her best skill. So what, you'll be having normal fires that spread? Brighter lighter 2 is literally the same as wearing a miner hat and a lantern at the same time, but with a little bit less range than a lantern loool.

31 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Lighting mobs on fire or burnie bernie himself gives off enough light.

Yeah fireball too, but it lasts a day, and increase sanity by a lot, and other can use it and cook things on it.

31 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Burning frenzy? 25% damage, big woop ill rather have a millions an one night armours from all the excessive nightmare fuel farming that burning bernie does.

Increased damage is overrated, the best offence is a good defence.

I think you got insane irl from so much copium gas.

I can still have all the nightmare fuel you mentioned it without burning bernie, and I won't be needing to reapply the burn every 20 seconds, I'll be way faster letting him tank those and focusing on clockworks on fire....

Also, you don't necessarily need to let bernie tank 20 nightmares at once in a danger phase, you can let normal bernie tank them, then 2 casts of lunar raiser will kill them, and you'll slowly get the embers back from burning clockworks, monkeys, ag etc..

[Walrusst]

I did just get a burning frenzy rework idea that makes it cooler and more compelling by reworking its ember cost into a downside ability instead.

Burning frenzy-> SOUL KINDLE
Moved from hungry lighter branch to the controlled burn branch.  Acts as a right click skill on burning enemies.
"Learn to kindle enemies to give them a damage vulnerability while they burn, enemies who are soul kindled have their fear of the flames replaced with a hatred for you. (Making you draw far greater aggro instead of panicking the enemy.) This replaces the default kindle effect on entities/enemies.
Enemies immune to fire are soul kindled instead, this bonus is increased if your affinity opposes the entity.
Allies are not burned by soul-fires.

The damage vulnerability is greater for willow." (10%->25% for willow. Or 10% only for willow when an enemy is immune to fire naturally.)

This makes it so there is a risk reward contrast between new willow gameplay, and hype high risk fast kill willow gameplay. So she has more to her gameplan than ignite-enemy win in most situations and players who are very cracked at the game can have epic fire duels with the strongest of enemy titans.
Most importantly, this de-clutters her ability wheel since kindles are just right clicking a thing on fire.

[Swiyss]

20 minutes ago, Walrusst said:

I did just get a burning frenzy rework idea that makes it cooler and more compelling by reworking its ember cost into a downside ability instead.

Burning frenzy-> SOUL KINDLE
Moved from hungry lighter branch to the controlled burn branch.
"Learn to kindle enemies to give them a damage vulnerability while they burn, enemies who are soul kindled have their fear of the flames replaced with a hatred for you. (Making you draw far greater aggro instead of panicking the enemy.) This replaces the default kindle effect on entities/enemies.
Enemies immune to fire are soul kindled instead, this bonus is increased if your affinity opposes the entity.
Allies are not burned by soul-fires.

The damage vulnerability is greater for willow." (10%->25% for willow. Or 10% only for willow when an enemy is immune to fire naturally.)

This makes it so there is a risk reward contrast between new willow gameplay, and hype high risk fast kill willow gameplay. So she has more to her gameplan than ignite-enemy win in most situations and players who are very cracked at the game can have epic fire duels with the strongest of enemy titans.
Most importantly, this de-clutters her ability wheel since kindles are just right clicking a thing on fire.

I would want this but I still prefer the option to make enemies scared while on fire. It's just so satisfying to see bearger running around like crazy while on-fire.

Maybe they could make it so this would only affect fire darts and staff uses. So using a fire staff on an enemy would make them have this soul kindle effect on you, but using the lighter or flame cast still scares them. This idea could stem from the fact that Willow can't control how much fire she shoots with the staff, making it so enemies get angered at you instead.