I'm concerned about the future of the story...

[Zephynox]

I started playing again after a big halt on my part and was re-watching all of the animated shorts and checking out the new content. I highly appreciate from the team's part the new snippets of lore and attention to detail in the animations.

However, I'm not sure how I feel about the direction taken, and get worried about how really fleshed out the lore really is, or if its made up as they go, it concerns me that the Constant being...CONSTANT...means that there will never be a satisfying ending to Don't Starve's story, if there is an ending it has to be either paradoxical, leading back to the start to excuse infinite gameplay, but in a way that spectators still feel closure from the story so far over the years, or perhaps a literal end once servers shut down, which honestly, it doesn't look like that's how that will go.

I also feel the aesthetics and updates leaning more toward the Moon-side of things, the nightmare updates feel somewhat dull, like they made them just to satisfy the parallels for the ones who prefer Charlie's side (ie. Wurt's shadow mermen compared to their moon counterpart), I want to believe this is because AFTER the moon, which is the chapter we are on right now, we'll see an increase in focus on the Nightmare/Charlie's plan side of things, but if not, at least to my eyes, moon-based tech tends to be the meta compared to their nightmare counterparts, and is more conceptually and aesthetically fleshed out.

What do you guys think? Do you believe they already know how things will play out and are just slowly feeding us the lore, or perhaps it is a more dynamic thing the community slowly changes? Do you like the current relation between Nightmare/Moon content or what changes would be good if any?

[Walrusst]

I imagine their plans are in slow agile bursts, like it was in the old days.

The adventure mode I remember being somewhat winged. The whole Maxwell was secretly a prisoner to the shadow throne reveal.
I mean, the development of toadstool I remember having to do with wanting the whole "Together" part of the game matter more by including tasks you can't manage solo.

Still, a clever pun I hope they go with in a closing act is if we end up ever needing to save charlie, that they cut "Together" apart into "TO GET HER."

[lowercase skye]

20 minutes ago, Zephynox said:

I'm not sure how I feel about the direction taken, and get worried about how really fleshed out the lore really is, or if its made up as they go

The basis of Return of Them had been planned out in at least some form since ~2015 (when they added moon rocks and gave Maxwell his quotes about them), and elements of From Beyond's storyline were first teased in like 2019. They definitely have to make up new stuff as they go, but that's pretty much the most standard thing for any story ever that's longer than a single installment, they're definitely planning plot developments years in advance which is all that really matters.

[Guille6785]

49 minutes ago, Zephynox said:

or if its made up as they go

yeah

[Dr. Safety]

I mean, lets be honest. The survivors are never making it out. The only characters who might have the means of getting them out have absolutely no interest in it. I don't think it's the worst thing to be making up this lore as they go in the grand scheme because the end result will always be that the survivors want to get home but are stuck in the Constant. I do hope that they at least have an idea of the outcome for this whole war. But you gotta ask yourself, what happens if one side wins? Then what?

At this point, the survivors have their fate sealed. The only ones in question are Charlie, Wagstaff, and the two omnipotent beings that are at war with each other. The survivors just gotta deal with whatever happens as a result

Edit: Well I guess the survivors could make it out if a certain someone WAGSTAFF gets added as a survivor. But that will never happen, right Klei? haha... unless...

[Zephynox]

16 minutes ago, lowercase skye said:

The basis of Return of Them had been planned out in at least some form since ~2015 (when they added moon rocks and gave Maxwell his quotes about them), and elements of From Beyond's storyline were first teased in like 2019. They definitely have to make up new stuff as they go, but that's pretty much the most standard thing for any story ever that's longer than a single installment, they're definitely planning plot developments years in advance which is all that really matters.

I guess my concern is those developments throwing the story into an endless loop that doesn't feel right, I don't think of DST as a "content farm" just yet, I just don't want it to become one further down the line. I was actually less concerned about it after watching the most recent shorts, even.

3 minutes ago, Dr. Safety said:

I mean, lets be honest. The survivors are never making it out. The only characters who might have the means of getting them out have absolutely no interest in it. I don't think it's the worst thing to be making up this lore as they go in the grand scheme because the end result will always be that the survivors want to get home but are stuck in the Constant. I do hope that they at least have an idea of the outcome for this whole war. But you gotta ask yourself, what happens if one side wins? Then what?

At this point, the survivors have their fate sealed. The only ones in question are Charlie, Wagstaff, and the two omnipotent beings that are at war with each other. The survivors just gotta deal with whatever happens as a result

I do see that, I mean it IS called the CONSTANT for a reason, I just really want to not be disappointed by the resulting narrative further down the line, I've liked what I've seen so far but I've seen development hell so many times I get concerned if the lack of closure might be detrimental in the long run. I think of DST as a game that evolved from "development hell" to "development limbo/purgatory/constant" and just hope they keep doing a good job and eventually, reach a stalemate where infinite gameplay (infinite survival, from the character's perspective) is still correct lore-wise, without it hindering the history made. Hence why I want a "paradoxical" ending, which I believe could be potentially done in a way everyone feels satisfied, we still have a long way to go before having to "end" things, though.

[Dr. Safety]

16 minutes ago, Zephynox said:

I do see that, I mean it IS called the CONSTANT for a reason, I just really want to not be disappointed by the resulting narrative further down the line, I've liked what I've seen so far but I've seen development hell so many times I get concerned if the lack of closure might be detrimental in the long run. I think of DST as a game that evolved from "development hell" to "development limbo/purgatory/constant" and just hope they keep doing a good job and eventually, reach a stalemate where infinite gameplay (infinite survival, from the character's perspective) is still correct lore-wise, without it hindering the history made. Hence why I want a "paradoxical" ending, which I believe could be potentially done in a way everyone feels satisfied, we still have a long way to go before having to "end" things, though.

I mentioned this briefly in another thread, but do you feel that a satisfying "stalemate" ending would be Charlie being dethroned and Wagstaff being pulled in, making them both survivors, and thereby completely destroying any human power and communication with the real world? This would be a whole new issue for the group since there is no humanity left in power and it's back to just a group of people trying to escape? The goal of escaping wouldn't be so hopeless since the survivors have Charlie and Wagstaff who, while significantly less powerful than they were, are still very knowledgeable about the Constant.

To me that is the most satisfying outcome of this war. I can't tell if it's because I want Wagstaff and Charlie as survivors or if it's because it is genuinely a satisfying story

[Zephynox]

6 minutes ago, Dr. Safety said:

I mentioned this briefly in another thread, but do you feel that a satisfying "stalemate" ending would be Charlie being dethroned and Wagstaff being pulled in, making them both survivors, and thereby completely destroying any human power and communication with the real world? This would be a whole new issue for the group since there is no humanity left in power and it's back to just a group of people trying to escape? The goal of escaping wouldn't be so hopeless since the survivors have Charlie and Wagstaff who, while significantly less powerful than they were, are still very knowledgeable about the Constant.

To me that is the most satisfying outcome of this war. I can't tell if it's because I want Wagstaff and Charlie as survivors or if it's because it is genuinely a satisfying story

That doesn't sound bad at all, the concept of the throne was a loop in itself, "anyone who wins gets to be GM, but everyone is still playing", which was what they were aiming for in New Home, having Charlie dethroned could give it a spin while still allowing the "loops" to happen, which is important so that regular gameplay can be canon, or at least excused. I do want Wagstaff, he is one of my favourite characters, but I do strongly believe he won't be added because of Winona, I think that anything a potential Wagstaff could do is already being implemented through her, being their mentor and all, and perhaps they really want him on this "man in the chair" kind of position for the lore, but I mean, we already saw him physically mingling with stuff inside, so who knows? We might get him. Charlie is a similar situation, I don't think there is much she could do that Maxwell can't or could potentially do, unfortunately.

[Dr. Safety]

16 minutes ago, Zephynox said:

That doesn't sound bad at all, the concept of the throne was a loop in itself, "anyone who wins gets to be GM, but everyone is still playing", which was what they were aiming for in New Home, having Charlie dethroned could give it a spin while still allowing the "loops" to happen, which is important so that regular gameplay can be canon, or at least excused.

I thought about the ancient gateway being the new Maxwell's door, and the pathway to the throne. The reason the survivors went to the Forge and Gorge is because those are what the Constant would be under Wigfrid and Warly's control respectively  That probably wouldn't work from a gameplay perspective though. Imagine if the world changed based on what character was in control, and the host could choose a character. I don't see a mechanic like that being implemented, but still fun to think about

20 minutes ago, Zephynox said:

I do want Wagstaff, he is one of my favourite characters, but I do strongly believe he won't be added because of Winona, I think that anything a potential Wagstaff could do is already being implemented through her, being their mentor and all, and perhaps they really want him on this "man in the chair" kind of position for the lore, but I mean, we already saw him physically mingling with stuff inside, so who knows? We might get him. Charlie is a similar situation, I don't think there is much she could do that Maxwell can't or could potentially do, unfortunately.

I used to think that, until Maxwell got his rework and Winona got her skill tree. I still think there is more to explore from a shadow mage and a builder character, but Winona and Maxwell already have a LOT going for them (Winona needs to take time to set her stuff up, but still). Bit of a shameless thread plug, but if you are interested, I had some ideas for what Wagstaff's kit could be to keep him different from Winona, or at least attempt to

[Primalflower]

3 hours ago, Dr. Safety said:

I mean, lets be honest. The survivors are never making it out.

The way I read your tone in this reply gives me the impression that this idea is some kind of cop-out  or fail state for the story, but I don't really see it that way. Don't Starve as a whole is a game with heavy themes of colonization, and much more so in a positive light with the addition of Together. I think "survivors roughing it out in the wilderness and making a home for themselves even if it's rough and stuff wants to kill them" isn't the kind of story that ends with them just... leaving, at some point.

[Dr. Safety]

19 minutes ago, Primalflower said:

The way I read your tone in this reply gives me the impression that this idea is some kind of cop-out  or fail state for the story, but I don't really see it that way. Don't Starve as a whole is a game with heavy themes of colonization, and much more so in a positive light with the addition of Together. I think "survivors roughing it out in the wilderness and making a home for themselves even if it's rough and stuff wants to kill them" isn't the kind of story that ends with them just... leaving, at some point.

I didn't mean it as the idea is a cop out. I just wanted to clarify that based on all the story thus far, there isn't any way the survivors are going to escape since all who have the power to do so benefit more from them being there. It's bittersweet since they found new purpose and a new group of friends, but also the people in their lives previously will never see them again and never know what happened, which is especially sad in Webber, Wendy, and Warly's case.

Just wanted to offer that grim reminder so people don't get their hopes up on the survivors "winning"

[Bumber64]

4 hours ago, Dr. Safety said:

The only characters who might have the means of getting them out have absolutely no interest in it.

I suspect Wagstaff is actually interested. He probably intends to profit off of the resources (regardless of the risk to Earth), which involves being able to bring stuff back.

[Dr. Safety]

5 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

I suspect Wagstaff is actually interested. He probably intends to profit off of the resources (regardless of the risk to Earth), which involves being able to bring stuff back.

Oh he definitely wants to bring stuff back, I just don't see him wanting to bring the people back. Both to keep them desperate and willing to do work for him, and to minimize the risk of WX-78 also making it back

[gaymime]

43 minutes ago, Dr. Safety said:

Oh he definitely wants to bring stuff back, I just don't see him wanting to bring the people back. Both to keep them desperate and willing to do work for him, and to minimize the risk of WX-78 also making it back

and winona