I don't quite think Walter's lunar affinity is as strong as shadow affinity

[Peasant]

Pure horror ammo need only 3 hits to maximum its damage, while you need to keep attacking with planar ammos to fully make use of one pure brilliance ammo. As for icker ammos, I think everyne know how broken they are.

I reckon give some buffs to pure brilliance ammo should do it, maybe make the effect stackable for 3 times

[YouKnowWho142]

feels like the lunar ammo wants to do a bit of utility (pure brilliance) and a bit of damage (brightshade) in a similar manner to shadow ammo, when all that happens is that shadow ammo generally outperforms lunar ammo in both damage (pure horror) and utility (icker). I don't think the lunar ammo is bad, but especially without an accompanying slingshot attachment shadow definitely feels like it performs better. Lunar should really double down on the damage aspect or improve its utility from the pure brilliance rounds, I think the brightshade rounds are pretty good but it by itself is nowhere near enough when it's compared to both shadow ammo.

At least lunar woby and shadow woby are pretty equally strong

[Steorra]

According to Cassilelu's test, Lunar ammos has far more DPS than Shadow's even in solo.

Pure brilliance debuff + brightshades ammo + void modding part = 210 dps

Pure horror + void cowl + void modding part = 140 dps

Pure horror + void cowl + void modding part + dreadstone ammo = 180 dps

See reference - 

Just now, YouKnowWho142 said:

At least lunar woby and shadow woby are pretty equally strong

Reversely, I think Shadow Woby is far stronger than Lunar, but both affinity ammos are almost balance.

[YouKnowWho142]

4 minutes ago, Steorra said:

According to Cassilelu's test, Lunar ammos has far more DPS than Shadow's even in solo.

Pure brilliance debuff + brightshades ammo + void modding part = 210 dps

Pure horror + void cowl + void modding part = 140 dps

Pure horror + void cowl + void modding part + dreadstone ammo = 180 dps

See reference - 

I wouldnt say far more dps, but that's a really interesting statistic. I think shadow will still be more popular since the utility is still way stronger, but it does help to recontextualize their balance

4 minutes ago, Steorra said:

Reversely, I think Shadow Woby is far stronger than Lunar, but both affinity ammos are almost balance.

I think that's a fair opinion, though the speed bonus on lunar Woby cannot be understated. It's definitely not as good in a combat setting but if you like using Walter for his exploration skills then lunar woby is really powerful. only place where shadow woby is really that much better at exploration is labyrinth, ik the dash technically outpaces lunar if you spam it but it really eats her hunger and is very impractical 

[somethin]

The rounds might be worse, but lunar woby imo is way better. Instant sprinting after dash is very powerful against fast boss. It's a trade off I will take even if my rounds are weaker.

[Crestwave]

26 minutes ago, Steorra said:

According to Cassilelu's test, Lunar ammos has far more DPS than Shadow's even in solo.

Pure brilliance debuff + brightshades ammo + void modding part = 210 dps

Pure horror + void cowl + void modding part = 140 dps

Pure horror + void cowl + void modding part + dreadstone ammo = 180 dps

See reference - 

Reversely, I think Shadow Woby is far stronger than Lunar, but both affinity ammos are almost balance.

I think that the horror test's DPS is brought down due to the use of dreadstone ammo. Have they conducted tests with cursed rounds? It doesn't require a skill and does significantly more DPS than dreadstone.

[Steorra]

Just now, Crestwave said:

I think that the horror test is mainly lowered due to the use of dreadstone ammo. Have they conducted tests with cursed rounds? It doesn't require a skill and does significantly more DPS than dreadstone.

Isn't the pure horror ammos is the cursed rounds?

[Crestwave]

6 minutes ago, Steorra said:

Isn't the pure horror ammos is the cursed rounds?

No, cursed rounds is one of Walter's original ammos and famously his strongest; it does 51 damage and has a 50% chance to spawn a shadow tentacle. You can prototype it at pseudoscience stations.

I think applying max horrors then swapping to cursed has the highest sustained DPS, assuming the shadow tentacles all hit (they will miss against moving targets unless you apply a lot of slow, which icker is useful for).

[Mr. Furman]

10 hours ago, YXukun said:

Pure horror ammo need only 3 hits to maximum its damage, while you need to keep attacking with planar ammos to fully make use of one pure brilliance ammo. As for icker ammos, I think everyne know how broken they are.

I reckon give some buffs to pure brilliance ammo should do it, maybe make the effect stackable for 3 times

imo the pure brilliance rounds may need to have some other special effects to make the lunar route more fun

For now its just raw dps

[Gashzer]

Lunar woby is better than shadow woby. Raw speed is better than teleports... apart from the convenience of getting through the atrium and for fighting AFW, rest of the time lunar woby is the way.

People don't give lunar rounds enough credit. Icky rounds are great but you have slow down rounds to cover for it and pure horror rounds are just not as good dps wise as brightshade rounds.

However the main advantage of lunar round over shadow rounds is the convenience to acquire them and the fact both pure brilliance and brightshade rounds are dps, 59 and 68(plus vine damage) respectively. Thulecite rounds require you to farm nightmare creatures and travel to ruins for thulecite fragments, this is tedious in the late game. Brightshades literally spawn at your base making them 1000x more convenient to use. And if that isn't enough a good amount of pure brillance can be farmed from lunar rifts giving you a bucket load of dps rounds.

Bye bye needing to farm marble as Walter.

[Mysterious box]

37 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Lunar woby is better than shadow woby. Raw speed is better than teleports... apart from the convenience of getting through the atrium and for fighting AFW, rest of the time lunar woby is the way.

People don't give lunar rounds enough credit. Icky rounds are great but you have slow down rounds to cover for it and pure horror rounds are just not as good dps wise as brightshade rounds.

However the main advantage of lunar round over shadow rounds is the convenience to acquire them and the fact both pure brilliance and brightshade rounds are dps, 59 and 68(plus vine damage) respectively. Thulecite rounds require you to farm nightmare creatures and travel to ruins for thulecite fragments, this is tedious in the late game. Brightshades literally spawn at your base making them 1000x more convenient to use. And if that isn't enough a good amount of pure brillance can be farmed from lunar rifts giving you a bucket load of dps rounds.

Bye bye needing to farm marble as Walter.

The thing is pure horror can be combined with cursed rounds and greatly benefits from the thulecite frame's aoe spread for the dot effect. Icker rounds are definitely replaceable with slowdown rounds but the amount of time you save using icker over slowdown is pretty big in combat further widening the gap between lunar and shadow rounds because time saved in combat. The main issue is the lunar side only pushes damage but it's not meaningful enough to set it apart from other damage options that don't require affinity locking you while the shadow rounds meaningfully improve your gameplay experience by supporting your existing rounds. If power is all the lunar side is going to offer it needs to meaningfully overpower the other options to be considered worthwhile at least in my opinion.

As for Woby personally I think they're both good though the main deciding factor on who is better varies from world to world as the more gaps the surface has the better shadow Woby performs whereas the in the opposite situation lunar Woby wins though in the long term after the gaps are patched up via world building tools lunar Woby will generally end up over taking shadow Woby overall.

56 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

However the main advantage of lunar round over shadow rounds is the convenience to acquire them and the fact both pure brilliance and brightshade rounds are dps, 59 and 68(plus vine damage) respectively. Thulecite rounds require you to farm nightmare creatures and travel to ruins for thulecite fragments, this is tedious in the late game. Brightshades literally spawn at your base making them 1000x more convenient to use. And if that isn't enough a good amount of pure brillance can be farmed from lunar rifts giving you a bucket load of dps rounds.

I do agree with this part however.

[Dyzrespect]

I think there is a very clear and clean progression rn between Shadow and Lunar.

You start out with Shadow, using Shadow Woby to clear gaps, breeze through cave exploration and Labyrinth, kite Shadow Piece Rook, all the way up to Rifts where you get icker rounds to help you deal with the end of the lunar quest like CC. Then once all of that is done, and you need less utility and more output, you can swap to Lunar and breeze around with Lunar Woby and use the heinous amount of brightshade husks you're no doubt amassing to pump out damage.

There is obviously always room for improvement, but I wouldn't be upset if the affinities shipped as they were. Also Brilliant ammo has potential for some interesting team synergies as more skills/weapons are added.

[Horsheen]

15 hours ago, Steorra said:

According to Cassilelu's test, Lunar ammos has far more DPS than Shadow's even in solo.

If you're doing purely slingshot then Lunar ammo is better for sure but if you mix melee with slingshot then shadow is better so ultimately it's really down to playstyle which I like!