We are the Minority (Don't Rework Wendy)

[Catapult 2.0]

Need data to back it up here?  这里需要数据支持吗？

  The graph above shows the number of recent active users by continent, and the chart below shows the number of players by country at the time of the post (January 26). It can be seen that Chinese players accounted for nearly 70% of Asian players during this period, and Asian players far exceeded other players, and Chinese players accounted for more than half of the total number of players.

  上图是近期按大洲划分的活跃人数，下图是发帖当前时间（1月26）按国家划分的玩家数量。可以看出该时段中国玩家占亚洲玩家近70%，亚洲玩家又远超其他玩家，中国玩家超过总玩家数的五成。

[Dr. Safety]

10 minutes ago, Thieta said:

Attempting to speak for those that aren't active on the forums - It's akin to denying their voice by attempting to make it your own.

We've literally seen YouKnowWho still wanting to make changes to things before the beta gets released though. What makes you think that they are "denying their voice"?

13 minutes ago, Thieta said:

What you said in that post directly contradicts what you are saying here. Yes, It is manipulation, You are attempting to use an arbitrary pressure (The outside community) You are also attempting to speak for them in both the posts you made and even THE TITLE While also devaluing and ostracizing those in the forums who are asking for change, No matter how you look at it - This is an attempt of gaslighting and putting pressure on both the devs and those in the forums.

What are you actually talking about? Literally look on reddit, youtube comments, or even in-game chat. Just about anyone who knows that there is a beta just wants it to go to live servers already. This isn't "stealing their voices for my own malicious intents ". This is me reading a bunch of comments that say a thing, and saying "hey there are a bunch of comments that say this thing"

[Catapult 2.0]

Reference website 参考网址：Don't Starve Together - 数据可视化 --- Don't Starve Together - Data Visualization

[somethin]

1 hour ago, Natsuki Bamboo said:

The graph above shows the number of recent active users by continent, and the chart below shows the number of players by country at the time of the post (January 26). It can be seen that Chinese players accounted for nearly 70% of Asian players during this period, and Asian players far exceeded other players, and Chinese players accounted for more than half of the total number of players.

Then what, ignoring the rest of the world players? That's a lot of people too. That's... hm...

[Lee Sy]

3 hours ago, SilverSpoon said:

@Lee Sy, I'm speaking directly to you, are you and "Almost everyone" completely not satisfied with the current Wendy skill tree and want it to be remade from scratch? I... think probably not.

Personally, I think the current Wendy skill tree needs some buffs and tweaking yet, but the core part is unique enough as it is and I'm satisfied with it. If you have same thought with me, I think you should be more specific about what you don't like about Wendy's skill tree and how you would like it tweaked. 

Nevertheless, If you really want Wendy's skill tree to be redesigned from scratch instead... I have to disagree because I like the current skill tree.

You know who have ruined a lot, Wigfrid's tree before and Wendy's tree now. I don't believe he could make a satisfied tree, he have tried a lot times, but none of success. He may be a brilliant programmer but not a good designer.

The art save him, the last update before vacation was nice, but you know it's just something about aesthetics. Nobody like you know who's design, that's a common sense in Chinese community.

6 minutes ago, somethin said:

Then what, ignoring the rest of the world players? That's a lot of people too. That's... hm...

The fact is half of the world was ignored for years, but due to Klei did a good job before, we choose to forgive.

And it changed in 2024, terrible year for Klei. And you should know we are the majority at least.

[Thieta]

1 hour ago, Dr. Safety said:

We've literally seen YouKnowWho still wanting to make changes to things before the beta gets released though. What makes you think that they are "denying their voice"?

1 hour ago, Thieta said:

??? Weird deflection and this has no relevence at all to what you quoted this to

 

1 hour ago, Dr. Safety said:

What are you actually talking about? Literally look on reddit, youtube comments, or even in-game chat. Just about anyone who knows that there is a beta just wants it to go to live servers already. This isn't "stealing their voices for my own malicious intents ". This is me reading a bunch of comments that say a thing, and saying "hey there are a bunch of comments that say this thing"

I'm not going to go through and requote everything just to prove you wrong - The only thing you have to you look at is the title of this forum "We are the minority (Don't rework wendy)"
If you can't read the other posts made that's your own problem - If you cannot recognize manipulation then that is a bigger problem. I hope you learn these skills before it's too late.

[Peasant]

In the same logic you can deny ALL the voices and opinions on the forum-we are the MINORITY after all. No need for any work on Wortox skilltree now, throw Wendy skilltree out of window, kick Walter skilltree right out of the door and have a three-week long vacation instead, after all it's just the "Minority"  keeps complaining about everything isn't it?

1 hour ago, somethin said:

Then what, ignoring the rest of the world players? That's a lot of people too. That's... hm...

I don't recall he said anything that is even related to "ignoring the rest of the world players"? He simply pointed out a fact, how does that have any connection to "ignoring the rest of the world players"?

[SilverSpoon]

1 hour ago, Lee Sy said:

You know who have ruined a lot, Wigfrid's tree before and Wendy's tree now. I don't believe he could make a satisfied tree, he have tried a lot times, but none of success. He may be a brilliant programmer but not a good designer.

The art save him, the last update before vacation was nice, but you know it's just something about aesthetics. Nobody like you know who's design, that's a common sense in Chinese community.

As a semi-Wigfrid main, I'm a little dissatisfied that her skill tree is a reconstruction of Forge's content and existing content, while Willow's has two completely original alignment attacks. However, I definitely enjoy Wigfrid's skill tree and don't think it's "ruined".

The same goes for Wendy's skill tree. It's shame I disagree with you and people of your community, but I am against having other designer else rework the skill tree from scratch now. I'm Sorry.

I won't stop you from calling for a rework, or collecting voices and signatures. However please refrain from harshly blaming Klei or devs. They are trying as hard as they can for also all of you and it makes me sad when I see some of my favorite game creators being blamed.

[Dr. Safety]

1 hour ago, Thieta said:

??? Weird deflection and this has no relevence at all to what you quoted this to

I mean, I guess if you don't read what I said then you can pretend it doesn't have relevance. Let me reiterate so that way you can misinterpret it again and pretend once more. You are saying that YouKnowWho is stealing the voice of people outside of the forums but we've seen YouKnowWho argue for the opposite of what they are voicing in this thread. Therefore, the stuff they are saying in this thread is not their voice, as it contradicts what they have done outside of this thread.

1 hour ago, Thieta said:

If you can't read the other posts made that's your own problem

Ironic

1 hour ago, Thieta said:

I'm not going to go through and requote everything just to prove you wrong - The only thing you have to you look at is the title of this forum "We are the minority (Don't rework wendy)"
If you can't read the other posts made that's your own problem - If you cannot recognize manipulation then that is a bigger problem. I hope you learn these skills before it's too late.

As I said, look at the multitudes of other media outside of the forums and see that people are impatient and want the beta content. Mentioning that is not manipulation. Manipulation would be misrepresenting YouKnowWho's argument and then attacking the misrepresentation

[Thieta]

6 minutes ago, Dr. Safety said:

I mean, I guess if you don't read what I said then you can pretend it doesn't have relevance. Let me reiterate so that way you can misinterpret it again and pretend once more. You are saying that YouKnowWho is stealing the voice of people outside of the forums but we've seen YouKnowWho argue for the opposite of what they are voicing in this thread. Therefore, the stuff they are saying in this thread is not their voice, as it contradicts what they have done outside of this thread.

Thanks for clarifying that I didn't minsterpret what you said, You just don't understand what I am saying. This time go back and read the posts, Think on it first... Also make sure to take off that white armor, Then come back to me - You quite literally do not understand what I am talking about and misinterpreting it yourself. And - I have to say this again, You are bringing up something irrelevant that holds no weight against my point

 

11 minutes ago, Dr. Safety said:

Manipulation would be misrepresenting YouKnowWho's argument and then attacking the misrepresentation

To clarify I am not misrepresenting what he said - However - In anything, Making an honest mistake is not manipulation... I'd advise you to look up the definition of words you do not know before attempting to use them against me.

15 minutes ago, Dr. Safety said:

As I said, look at the multitudes of other media outside of the forums and see that people are impatient and want the beta content. Mentioning that is not manipulation.

Mentioning that they are impatient about it isn't manipulation, No - However trying to use that small bit to assume what they would want/be okay with/etc (Of which those 3 always line up with what the arguer wants, In this case Youknowwho) Is twisting their words and stealing their voice away - Attempting to use an overwhelming odds, That isn't even correct, to try and force other opinions down.

The entirety of this post is "Don't rework wendy" It's right in the title. Next to it is putting us, Those in the forums, As the minority to devalue our opinions in general - With the intent of preventing wendy from getting skill tree changes - He then brings up casual players and how they want the skill tree out, which is somewhat Valid - (Honestly i wouldn't be surprised if a fair bit of them, if not most of them, weren't aware of the beta. I wasn't until the past year, Despite playing DST for years... Tho this is an assumption and although I ain't wrong, The value might be higher/lower than I think.) until he then begins to assume what they want out of this beta, Yes there are those who are aware of the beta and just want it to be released - But assuming that noone wants any kinds of changes to go through? That all of them want this to end and don't care about the skill trees or them getting reworked (If they know) That is taking their voice away from them. He is speaking for them. That is a major problem.

Again this all to support the TITLE of this post, Which is "Don't rework wendy" - Everything he said in his first message was to aid in his goal of preventing people/devs from wanting to rework wendy... This makes what he did manipulation - Since he is trying to twist words, Speak for others, Bring in stuff to devalue other opinions, And also add in a presumed outside force/pressure on not only the Forum goers but also the devs.

It is a very common tactic that you see EVERYWHERE - "Noone else wants this but you" Is what they tell you when noone else is around. "Hurry up and do it already, It's fine how it is stop working on it, Everyone wants you to release it now and won't care if you add or change anything" Adding pressure and causing the value you assigned to future additions to lesson... Maybe I should release it now? They probably won't even want this stuff added... - These tactics, The results that come from them, and letting them fly without any kind of intervention is an INSANE issue. I outlined a very digestible way for you to understand how what he said is not only manipulative but also extremely toxic and that kind of behavior should never be tolerated - IF you think otherwise, Don't quote me. I'd rather not waste seconds of my life reading an unintelligent response.

TLDR - If you think 1 person who barely talks to anyone in the "Community" (I know damn sure they ain't talking to the chinese playerbase) can accurately and faithfully talk about what "The community wants" - Then there's no cure for you.

[Yifei_]

11 hours ago, YouKnowWho142 said:

The backlash on the forums comes from the minority that has much higher expectations on what they want out of each update. a poll might give a general idea on what the forum thinks, but it will never represent the community as a whole.

你将论坛上的反对意见归结为“少数派”的“过高期望”，暗示这些意见是不合理的。这种说法忽略了论坛反馈的价值，同时也贬低了那些积极参与社区讨论的玩家。你没有权力或依据去定义什么是“社区”的真实想法。

You dismiss the negative feedback on the forums as the "higher expectations" of a "minority," implying that these opinions are unreasonable. This not only ignores the value of the feedback on the forums but also belittles those who actively participate in community discussions. You have no right or basis to define what the "community" truly thinks.

11 hours ago, YouKnowWho142 said:

I think this is really important to make clear to everyone. Most people who play Don't Starve Together are going to be casual players, and they represent the majority of the community. They don't go onto the forums and a lot of them are likely disinterested in the community in general. A lot of these skill trees are satisfactory to these more casual players, and even if all three skill trees came out literally right now as long as they're functional the majority of the community will not complain or be bothered.

这是典型的以偏概全。许多玩家可能因为缺乏渠道、没有时间、语言障碍而没有在论坛上表达意见，但这并不意味着他们对技能树满意。我可以告诉你在b站和贴吧等平台上有大量负面反馈，而且这些平台的用户基数远大于科雷论坛。我不知道你是怎么调研得出的这个结论。

This is a typical case of overgeneralization. Many players may not express their opinions on the forums due to a lack of channels, time constraints, or language barriers, but this does not mean that they are satisfied with the skill trees. I can tell you that there is a significant amount of negative feedback on platforms like Bilibili and Tieba, and these platforms have a much larger user base than the Klei forums. I don't know how you conducted your research to reach this conclusion.

11 hours ago, YouKnowWho142 said:

Continuing to call for reworks on Wendy's tree is only going to cause us to go backwards since Wendy was already a fundamentally strong character with a defined purpose who just needed flavor and survivability. If Wendy's skill tree released right now, most people would not care.

你这种观点刻意忽略了技能树设计中存在的问题，例如技能的实用性、创意性等。你也没有提供足够的理由来支持“不需要大改”的观点。

Your perspective deliberately overlooks the existing issues in the design of the skill trees, such as the practicality and creativity of the skills. You also fail to provide sufficient reasons to support the view that "no major changes are needed."

11 hours ago, YouKnowWho142 said:

If Wendy's skill tree released right now, most people would not care.

我不知道你是如何得出如此乐观且缺乏依据的结论。技能树设计不佳，玩家的不满不会因为发布而消失，反而可能会因为长期的不满而对游戏的整体体验产生更严重的负面影响。

I don't know how you came to such an optimistic and unsupported conclusion. Poorly designed skill trees will not make players' dissatisfaction disappear upon release; on the contrary, long-term discontent may have a more serious negative impact on the overall gaming experience.

[Steorra]

Eh, I have listed most my ideas about current Wendy's tree. It could be called as "rework" in my view, but I guess in some others' they would prefer my idea as a "changes" but not "rework". Similar things happened to many other who dislike current Wendy's tree. They may have many ideas about how to change current tree and they think that is "rework", but maybe some of you would think that is "still not rework" I guess.