Addressing Abbys Lack of utility

[DVGMedia]

There really is not a lot of skills for abby in the Wendy skill tree. Most are either potions wendy or other things.
So I think converting one of the paths the skill tree has into a ulitilty path would make her a bit more Unique than just as a combat character

Ive Wanted to make The effect of sisturn 3 which is currently the player tag into a superpotion. which would solve alot of the problems sisturn 3 has which is its a stationary object and most of the time bosses can spawn randomly or you may not be ready to fight them. So having it be a potion would help alot more than it being part of a stationary structure.

What would be good for a stationary structure are buffs you would want to give abby for a longer period of time. And so this is why I suggest we change Sisturn 3. Here are some ideas Ive come up with and stolen along the way of discussing this feature. On what each flower type could potentially do if they reworked sisturn 3
I think this should be changed where each individual petal provides unique changes however they can only be activated if all 4 slots on the sisturn are implemented meaning abby can have 4 different buffs or 1 strong one. kind of like how wx works.


I think it would actually be good to add these as a tail end of sisturn like a tier 4 and 5
And it would make the teir 1 of sisturn actually useful
So sisturn 3 becomes petal power Can use evil bulb foliage.
Sisturn 4 is Farm power able to use the flowers from farming forgetmelots tillweed firenettles
Sisturn 5 is exotics  Cactus flower Succulents Blossom

Forget me lots. Sisturn has an increased sanity aura (75 PM) and gives abigail a Sanity aura (6.6)
Firenettles Sisturn provides a small amount of heat.  Abby becomes a mini heat source.
Tillweed. Sisturn provides a .5 hp regen every 30 seconds. Boosts abbys base regen by 1
Bulbs - Sisturn and abigail glow brighter
Succulent - Sisturn provides small Umbralla effect around it and gives abigail a 300hp boost
Ferns - Sisturn will grow some random shrooms around itself and gives abigail boosted stats in the dark
Lunar - Sisturn ocasionally will spawn a moon moth. Changes abigails attack to pure planar
Evil - Sisturn has a massively decreased sanity aura (-75 PM) and gives abigail Dusk Damage During Day
Cactus flower - Sisturn  Provides a cooling effect Gives abigail  thorns effect

I feel like people now wanted more of a abby that provides more utility outside of combat and this would do that. And especially since it would cost 5 points to access all of this i think it can be warrented.

Edit
This is for the new system of having flowers be more of mini buffs for each of the flower type instead of all 4 being put in the sisturn to create a buff. In order to activate the buff however the player does still need to fill the sisturn.

Forget me lots. abigail has a sanity aura 1.3 per flower
Firenettles Abby becomes a mini heat source +5 degrees per flower from ambient.
Tillweed. Boosts abbys base regen by .25 per flower
Bulbs - abigail glows brighter .5 unit per flower
Succulent -  gives abigail a 50 max per flower
Ferns -Boost abbys movespeed .25 per flower
Lunar - abigail boosts attack speed .1 per flower
Evil - Abigail Gains 2.5 damage per flower
Cactus flower -Gives abigail thorns effect 10 damage per flower
 

[Yifei_]

The current Evil Flower's sanity-draining aura in the Sisturn is really not very useful. If I remember correctly, it was originally supposed to be -40 sanity per minute, but due to Wendy's own sanity decay resistance, the further resistance to sanity-draining auras from the Blessed Sisturn II, and the collision volume of the Sisturn, in practice it might only be around -20 sanity per minute. The Evil Flower has its own unique art and dialogue, yet its practicality is so poor. I really hope we can give it some new and meaningful uses.

I think increasing Abigail's light radius is a cool suggestion. Additionally, considering Wendy's dialogue when she talks to crops, giving Abigail some farming-related support functions would also be very nice.

[Yaorin yon]

I feel like this isn't the first time I've said this, but I still think that flower combinations should be the perfect choice for Wendy to revitalize the Sisturn function. In my normal gameplay, this function actually has no presence. When I need it to be activated, I often can't find flowers (in dangerous places, like caves/seas). The main issue is that the benefits are low. When Abigail is healthy, they don't provide any effect. When Abigail dies, they often can't save the situation and are hard to mass-produce.

[YouKnowWho142]

I know you've discussed this in several posts dvg but you're still so on the mark. the sisturn effects and sisturn 3 potion effect are the two changes I want most and if Klei went with your idea then I would really have zero complaints for Wendy's skill tree

Still, as you mentioned, I think it's strange that Wendy got so many skills for herself. People complained that Walter focused too much on his ammo, which was justified since Walter had a lot more than just his slingshot. However, Wendy as a character is just a weaker Wilson with a slower sanity drain, with Abigail being an extension of all of her positive perks and the highlight of her character. The skill tree really should have put a bit more focus on her, I'm sure the flower effects on the sisturn would fix that for me

[YouKnowWho]

Why does Abby need utility?

[Well-met]

what?

she can haunt stuff. How is this not utility

[Echsrick]

i mean, does the ghost need to? its there for makin easy work on small enemy hordes like spiders and hounts without the need to do anything, what else sould she do?

[Civecilim]

14 minutes ago, YouKnowWho said:

Why does Abby need utility?

 

8 minutes ago, Well-met said:

what?

she can haunt stuff. How is this not utility

 

4 minutes ago, Echsrick said:

i mean, does the ghost need to? its there for makin easy work on small enemy hordes like spiders and hounts without the need to do anything, what else sould she do?

 

I feel like *something* else is warranted. As explained in:

 

 

[asdsaax]

Not sure about the Abigail buffs here (except the purely utility ones like light, warming up and etc), since it's potions job to enchance her combat
but I really like the idea of Sisturn being an obelisk of minor buffs that vary depending on items used for decoration

It would make for a cool twist in Wendy's skilltree as Mourning Glory III skill which turns Wendy into supportive character
instead of having another plain revive
+ would serve well for people who like to take their time and chill with farmlands

[DVGMedia]

1 hour ago, YouKnowWho said:

Why does Abby need utility?

I think its more now in that theres so many players wanting so many different things theres no real way for 1 fixed thing to provide something great for all of them.
So now im thinking the best way to approach it would be to let players pick what they want for their abby Give them a buffet instead of an entree

Feel kind of like if she got a system that allowed Wendy players to buff abby with points of thier choosing would be better
Which is what the cistern I think can be used for
Different flowers providing Abby different effects so that way players can make Abby be what they want her to be.
Since the cistern only has four slots you could only upgrade Abby with four different flowers
But you can access more flowers based off of the skill tree.
So that way there is at least a good mix of perks on the tree instead of going with the double potion branch of pipspooks and potions.
It would provide something more than just what is given.
This puts agency with what the player wants to do instead of players having to just deal with what exists

I Feel like that be a much healthier way to deal with this character which has many conflicting ways on how the tree should be done
instead of creating fixed upgrades on the skill tree

[Thieta]

1 hour ago, Well-met said:

what?

she can haunt stuff. How is this not utility

1 hour ago, YouKnowWho said:

Why does Abby need utility?

1 hour ago, Echsrick said:

i mean, does the ghost need to? its there for makin easy work on small enemy hordes like spiders and hounts without the need to do anything, what else sould she do?
 

 

Before you ask that question for WENDY, Ask it for every other character. Woby, Merms, Wormwood and his carrat/lightbulb summons, Wolfgang and coaching whistle, Wortox.
The list goes on. We shouldn't be trying to dismiss additional features/QoL/Unique gamestyles unless they actively are a detriment to the gameplay and enjoyment of the game.

[SilverSpoon]

Personally, I don't think Wendy needs utility skills, and I don't mind if she becomes only combat-focused, in fact I think that's better. The reason is

• I think Wendy players will be happier if she specializes in combat, rather than adding utility skills and nerfing the combat aspect.
• Wendy was a combat character from the beginning concept.
• Playing Wendy as a combat character without special utilities for casual players can help them learn the various utilities of DST.

That said, the idea of her getting mini-buffs for each type of flower put in Sisturn is very cool. I suggest making them all combat-related.

[DVGMedia]

30 minutes ago, SilverSpoon said:

Personally, I don't think Wendy needs utility skills, and I don't mind if she becomes only combat-focused, in fact I think that's better. The reason is

• I think Wendy players will be happier if she specializes in combat, rather than adding utility skills and nerfing the combat aspect.
• Wendy was a combat character from the beginning concept.
• Playing Wendy as a combat character without special utilities for casual players can help them learn the various utilities of DST.

That said, the idea of her getting mini-buffs for each type of flower put in Sisturn is very cool. I suggest making them all combat-related.

well most of the suggestions i made for each flower is kind of combat orientated. But some things that would not be inherently combat orientated like abby as a bigger light source or providing sanity or heat can actually be pretty useful  in combat aswell in standard gameplay. Becuase it gives more room for the player to move around without needing to fiddle with items .
 

[Catapult 2.0]

Not to mention the other petals, at least we should give the demon petals an effect first. For example, the AOE of "Attact AT" and ABI on other mobs can spread to shadow creatures

其他的花瓣先不说，起码应该先给恶魔花瓣一个效果吧。例如“attact at”和abi对其他生物的aoe能波及到暗影生物

[YouKnowWho142]

1 hour ago, SilverSpoon said:

Personally, I don't think Wendy needs utility skills, and I don't mind if she becomes only combat-focused, in fact I think that's better. The reason is

• I think Wendy players will be happier if she specializes in combat, rather than adding utility skills and nerfing the combat aspect.
• Wendy was a combat character from the beginning concept.
• Playing Wendy as a combat character without special utilities for casual players can help them learn the various utilities of DST.

That said, the idea of her getting mini-buffs for each type of flower put in Sisturn is very cool. I suggest making them all combat-related.

I think the word "utility" is a little misunderstood. I don't think dvg meant anything drastic like Abi being able to suddenly chop trees or pick up items or anything like that. I think he meant more just giving Abi little passive effects that could help in the right situations. Things like Abi emitting heat/cold, more light, umbralla effect, etc is a good way of making Abi a little more useful outside of combat without being a highlight of her character.

After all, utility by definition is the state of being useful, and dvg's concept seems to be in line with that even if the effects are only passive

[MorePlease]

not every character should be a utility character plus she has utility with being able to revive people haunt anything her ghost has a strong aoe for easy food can farm dark flowers which you can make unlimited nightmare fuel can add a hex to any mob for even more damage shes insanly good right now 

On 2/10/2025 at 1:00 PM, DVGMedia said:

There really is not a lot of skills for abby in the Wendy skill tree. Most are either potions wendy or other things.
So I think converting one of the paths the skill tree has into a ulitilty path would make her a bit more Unique than just as a combat character

Ive Wanted to make The effect of sisturn 3 which is currently the player tag into a superpotion. which would solve alot of the problems sisturn 3 has which is its a stationary object and most of the time bosses can spawn randomly or you may not be ready to fight them. So having it be a potion would help alot more than it being part of a stationary structure.

What would be good for a stationary structure are buffs you would want to give abby for a longer period of time. And so this is why I suggest we change Sisturn 3. Here are some ideas Ive come up with and stolen along the way of discussing this feature. On what each flower type could potentially do if they reworked sisturn 3
I think this should be changed where each individual petal provides unique changes however they can only be activated if all 4 slots on the sisturn are implemented meaning abby can have 4 different buffs or 1 strong one. kind of like how wx works.


I think it would actually be good to add these as a tail end of sisturn like a tier 4 and 5
And it would make the teir 1 of sisturn actually useful
So sisturn 3 becomes petal power Can use evil bulb foliage.
Sisturn 4 is Farm power able to use the flowers from farming forgetmelots tillweed firenettles
Sisturn 5 is exotics  Cactus flower Succulents Blossom

Forget me lots. Sisturn has an increased sanity aura (75 PM) and gives abigail a Sanity aura (6.6)
Firenettles Sisturn provides a small amount of heat.  Abby becomes a mini heat source.
Tillweed. Sisturn provides a .5 hp regen every 30 seconds. Boosts abbys base regen by 1
Bulbs - Sisturn and abigail glow brighter
Succulent - Sisturn provides small Umbralla effect around it and gives abigail a 300hp boost
Ferns - Sisturn will grow some random shrooms around itself and gives abigail boosted stats in the dark
Lunar - Sisturn ocasionally will spawn a moon moth. Changes abigails attack to pure planar
Evil - Sisturn has a massively decreased sanity aura (-75 PM) and gives abigail Dusk Damage During Day
Cactus flower - Sisturn  Provides a cooling effect Gives abigail  thorns effect

I feel like people now wanted more of a abby that provides more utility outside of combat and this would do that. And especially since it would cost 5 points to access all of this i think it can be warrented.

Edit
This is for the new system of having flowers be more of mini buffs for each of the flower type instead of all 4 being put in the sisturn to create a buff. In order to activate the buff however the player does still need to fill the sisturn.

Forget me lots. abigail has a sanity aura 1.3 per flower
Firenettles Abby becomes a mini heat source +5 degrees per flower from ambient.
Tillweed. Boosts abbys base regen by .25 per flower
Bulbs - abigail glows brighter .5 unit per flower
Succulent -  gives abigail a 50 max per flower
Ferns -Boost abbys movespeed .25 per flower
Lunar - abigail boosts attack speed .1 per flower
Evil - Abigail Gains 2.5 damage per flower
Cactus flower -Gives abigail thorns effect 10 damage per flower
 

I think if you want her to be more utility-wise, then she should have a bigger damage nerf 

[DVGMedia]

15 minutes ago, MorePlease said:

not every character should be a utility character plus she has utility with being able to revive people haunt anything her ghost has a strong aoe for easy food can farm dark flowers which you can make unlimited nightmare fuel can add a hex to any mob for even more damage shes insanly good right now 

I think if you want her to be more utility-wise, then she should have a bigger damage nerf 

no why should we change her basekit?
thats the niche that wendy and abby fill
What ive suggested doesn't tread on other characters nor is too powerful and most of the numbers are tied to how the game works.
 

[DVGMedia]

Bumping this Because Still feel like it should be seen As a viable alternative to fixing  up the playertag shenanigans.
Making Ghastly elixer base kit. While also adding a new potion that adds in playertag.

[Peasant]

On 2/12/2025 at 6:48 AM, SilverSpoon said:

Personally, I don't think Wendy needs utility skills, and I don't mind if she becomes only combat-focused, in fact I think that's better. The reason is

• I think Wendy players will be happier if she specializes in combat, rather than adding utility skills and nerfing the combat aspect.
• Wendy was a combat character from the beginning concept.
• Playing Wendy as a combat character without special utilities for casual players can help them learn the various utilities of DST.

That said, the idea of her getting mini-buffs for each type of flower put in Sisturn is very cool. I suggest making them all combat-related.

Actually you just addressed one reason people don't like the tree. The tree don't have much utility skills, yet the battle-related ones aren't good enough either