温蒂技能树的整体评价（更新） / An overall evaluation of Wendy's skill tree (Update)

[Yifei_]

@Jason

以下评价从好到坏，均是基于我自己的游玩体验，具有一定的主观性。

The following evaluations, ranging from good to bad, are based on my own gaming experience and are somewhat subjective.

 

团队精神

团队精神的三个技能是温蒂的技能树中设计的最好、最有创意、最实用的技能。

1. 逃脱指令：通过在合适的时机释放能够很好的躲避伤害、脱离仇恨。比如清遗迹时可以快速脱离战车的仇恨/伤害。又比如为之前相当难处理的天体英雄三阶段提供了可行的策略。
2. 攻击指令：能够让玩家更好调整阿比盖尔的位置，通过预判能躲避部分boss的攻击。比如远古犀牛、远古只因者等。
3. 惊吓指令：能够更出色地发挥阿比盖尔的对群能力。无论是与帝王蟹、蜂后的boss战还是清理双主教亦或是守月台都很出色。
4. 作祟指令：这可以算是一个很好的生活质量提升，比如蘑菇转化、花瓣转化、熄灭点错的矮星等。

总结：这个系列的技能已经相当出色。可能的更改建议包括独立CD计算之类的。但即使不做修改，也已经很不错了。

Team Spirits

The three skills of Team Spirits are the best designed, most creative, and most practical skills in Wendy's skill tree.

1. Escape command: By releasing at the right time, it can effectively avoid damage and escape aggro. For example, when clearing ruins, it can quickly escape the aggro/damage of the rook. It also provides a viable strategy for the previously difficult-to-handle Celestial Champion III phase.
2. Attack At command: It allows players to better adjust Abigail's position, and by predicting, it can avoid some boss attacks. For example, Ancient Guardian, Ancient Fuel Weaver, etc.
3. Scare command: It can better utilize Abigail's crowd control ability. Whether it's boss battles with Crab King, Bee Queen, or clearing bishops or guarding the Moon Stone, it performs excellently.
4. Haunt command: This can be considered a great quality of life improvement, such as mushroom conversion, petal conversion, extinguishing misplaced Dwarf Stars, etc.

Summary: This series of skills is already quite outstanding. Possible suggestions for changes include independent CD calculations, etc. But even without modifications, it is already very good.

 

 

小惊吓任务

没有技能树时温蒂的一个痛点是哀悼荣耀的量产很麻烦。即使在我自己的几千天的长期档里我也收集不了多少哀悼荣耀。但这三个技能使得找到小惊吓更加容易、任务更加轻松、产量更高，很大程度上弥补了这一痛点，使得药剂的玩法能够更加丰富。

总结：尽管没有改变小惊吓任务的玩法，这个技能的实用性依旧相当不错。

Pipspook Request

One of Wendy's pain points without the skill tree was the hassle of mass-producing Mourning Glory. Even in my own long-term word which is already thousands of days, I couldn't collect much Mourning Glory. However, these three skills make finding pipspooks easier, the tasks more manageable, and the yield higher, greatly alleviating this pain point and enriching the potion gameplay.

Summary: Although it doesn't change the gameplay of Pipspook Requests, the practicality of this skill is still quite good.

 

 

灵体草药

1. 野餐盒：没有技能树时药剂的另一痛点是占据物品栏。而这个野餐盒提供了9个格子用于放置哀悼荣耀和灵体草药，并且仅需要一个技能点，是非常出色的生活质量提升。
2. 恐怖经历：这个药剂的配方需要必忘我，即使在长期服务器必忘我的量产也相当麻烦耗时。并且这个药剂的功能与骨灰盒冲突，几乎使得阿比盖尔的死亡没有成本。我很不喜欢这个药剂的设计。
3. 药效强劲：用处不大，持续8分钟以上的boss战很少，而且真要持续那么久再加一瓶药就是了。给我的感觉是充数技能。
4. 额外产出：有一定的实用性。但是功能与小惊吓任务任务分支有些重复，没有新意。

总结：野餐盒是非常出色的设计。其他三个分支的设计不理想。

Ghostly Elixir

1. Picnic Casket: Another pain point of potions without the skill tree was their occupation of inventory space. This picnic casket provides 9 slots for storing Mourning Glory and Ghostly Elixir, and only requires one skill point, making it an excellent quality-of-life improvement.
2. Ghastly Experience: The recipe for this potion requires forget-me-lots, which is quite troublesome and time-consuming to mass-produce even in long-term servers. Additionally, the functionality of this potion conflicts with the Sisturn, almost making Abigail's death cost-free. I dislike the design of this potion.
3. Strong Brew: Not very useful. Boss battles lasting more than 8 minutes are rare, and if they do, you can just use another potion. It feels like a filler skill to me.
4. Extra Yield: Somewhat practical. However, its functionality overlaps with the Pipspook Request branch, lacking originality.

Summary: The picnic casket is an excellent design. The other three branches are not ideal.

 

 

坟墓

坟墓美化：我不觉得大惊吓的实用性有多高，它能做的阿比盖尔都能做。这个技能还为恶魔花提供了一个新的来源，不过我依然觉得实用性很低。想要恶魔花不如使用团队精神的作祟指令转化花瓣。

温蒂手作墓碑：这个技能对于我建家很有帮助，并且能更方便的收集哀悼荣耀。另外灵魂管子的设定、美感比之前的铲子挖坟好太多了。

总结：温蒂手作墓碑的设定对于建家玩家很不错，坟墓美化的实用性较低。

Grave

Grave Beautification: I don't think the practicality of Bigspook is very high, as Abigail can do everything it can. This skill also provides a new source of Evil Flowers, but I still find its practicality low. If you want Evil Flowers, it's better to use the Haunt command from Team Spirits to convert petals.

Wendy's Handcrafted Tombstone: This skill is very helpful for my base building and makes collecting Mourning Glory more convenient. Additionally, the design and aesthetics of the Spirit Vessel are much better than the previous shovel-digging method.

Summary: Wendy's Handcrafted Tombstone is great for base-building players, while Grave Beautification has lower practicality.

 

 

月亮亲和

一级月亮姐妹情和二级月亮姐妹情中规中矩。对于三级月亮姐妹情，上次热修后转化条件已经被放宽，同时怯战模式也被删除，相关bug也已经被修复。

在我的长期服务器中我会选择月亮亲和，但我仅仅只会在面对天体英雄三阶段时趁着月亮风暴使用月阿比，在击败它后立刻将月阿比转换回来。普通阿比的AoE实在比月阿比强太多了，对我来说打boss月阿比也不见得比普通阿比好到哪去。

总结：上次热修后月阿比的比较严重的设计问题得到了部分解决，有一定的实用性。但失去AoE能力依旧是一个相当严苛的惩罚。

Lunar Affinity

Lunar Sisterhood I and Lunar Sisterhood II are decent. As for Lunar Sisterhood III, after the last hotfix, the conversion conditions have been relaxed, and the hiding mode has been removed, with related bugs also fixed.

In my long-term server, I would choose Lunar Affinity, but I only use Lunar Abigail during the Moon Storm when facing Celestial Champion III, and immediately switch her back after defeating it. Normal Abigail's AoE is simply much stronger than Lunar Abigail's, and for me, Lunar Abigail isn't necessarily better than Normal Abigail for boss fights.

Summary: After the last hotfix, some of the serious design issues with Lunar Abigail have been resolved, giving it some practicality. However, losing AoE capability remains a significant penalty.

 

 

受佑姐妹骨灰盒

1. 一级：增加花瓣保质期时间。中规中矩的生活质量更新。清远古时可能有用。
2. 二级：提升骨灰盒理智光环，增加疯狂光环的抵御能力。对我几乎没有什么用处。
3. 三级：玩家标签提供的boss减伤并不是恒定的50%，而且面对非boss生物则没有减伤。在这种情况下一刀切的方式砍半回血效率相当糟糕。美工很不错。

总结：三级技能的削弱方式过于粗暴，有较为严重的设计问题。将其由“玩家标签”改成“1200血量上限”是一个更合理的改动。

Blessed Sisturn

1. Level 1: Increases the shelf life of petals. A mediocre quality of life update. Might be useful when clearing the ruins.
2. Level 2: Enhances the sanity aura of the urn and increases resistance to madness auras. It's almost useless to me.
3. Level 3: The boss damage reduction provided by the player tag is not a constant 50%, and there is no damage reduction against non-boss creatures. In this case, the one-size-fits-all approach of halving the healing efficiency is quite poor. The art is quite nice.

Summary: The nerfing method of the Level 3 skill is too crude and has significant design issues. Changing it from "player tag" to "1200 health cap" would be a more reasonable modification.

 

 

暗影亲和

1. 一级：中规中矩的数值提升。
2. 二级：我之前提的建议是削弱额外物理伤害倍率、增加位面（planar）伤害数值。但这次热修中额外物理伤害倍率被完全删除。
3. 三级：去年12月初时就有很多反馈“谋杀”这种方式很让人感到心烦。随身携带活的动物浪费物品栏，抓动物本身也很浪费时间，谋杀触发的时长也短。与其花时间去搜集动物不如把这个时间用在战斗上。这个糟糕的触发条件使得我不会选择暗影III。

总结：暗影III的触发条件过于麻烦。暗影药剂的改动方式是否合理值得商榷。

Shadow Affinity

1. Level 1: A modest numerical improvement.
2. Level 2: My previous suggestion was to reduce the additional physical damage multiplier and increase planar damage values. However, in this hotfix, the additional physical damage multiplier was completely removed.
3. Level 3: Since early December last year, there has been a lot of feedback that the "murder" method is very annoying. Carrying live animals wastes inventory space, capturing animals itself is time-consuming, and the trigger duration for murder is short. Rather than spending time collecting animals, it's better to use that time for combat. This poor trigger condition makes me avoid choosing Shadow III.

Summary: The trigger condition for Shadow III is too cumbersome. The changes made to the Shadow Potion are debatable in terms of their rationality.

 

 

哀悼荣耀分支

1. 蝴蝶复活：上一次的改动依旧没有解决这个技能对于月亮亲和玩家毫无作用的设计问题。而且我们又回到了40个哀悼荣耀和1个捕虫网谁的成本更高的可笑问题。这个技能非常粗暴的和暗影III联动，实用性也相当低。
2. 幽灵花环：即使修改了两种防御药剂的效果它的实用性依旧很不理想。对我来说这个技能毫无用处，刻意去使用这个技能的功能会拖慢、打乱我的游戏节奏。
3. 复活祭坛：肉块雕像的新皮肤。作为哀悼荣耀分支的最后一个技能实用性依旧相当糟糕，毫无新意，实用性甚至不如肉块雕像。这个技能的美工很不错。

总结：整个哀悼荣耀分支依旧有很严重的实用性、设计性问题。

Mourning Glory Branch

1. Butterfly Resurrection: The previous changes still haven't addressed the design issue of this skill being useless for Lunar Affinity players. Moreover, we're back to the ridiculous question of whether 40 Mourning Glory or 1 Bug Net has a higher cost. This skill is very crudely tied to Shadow III and has very low practicality.
2. Wreath: Even after modifying the effects of the two defensive potions, its practicality remains far from ideal. For me, this skill is completely useless, and deliberately using its functionality would slow down and disrupt my gameplay rhythm.
3. Perennial Altar: A new skin for the meat effigy. As the final skill in the Mourning Glory branch, its practicality is still quite poor, lacking originality, and it's even less practical than the meat effigy. The art design of this skill is quite good.

Summary: The entire Mourning Glory branch still has serious practicality and design issues.

 

 

鬼魂复仇

30秒厉鬼体验卡。离谱至极，无论是实用性还是与角色特点的符合性。

总结：除了威尔逊的火把技能外，这是我见过的设计最为糟糕的技能。

Vengeful Ghost

A 30-second experience card for a malevolent ghost. It is extremely absurd, both in terms of practicality and alignment with character traits.

Summary: Apart from Wilson's torch skill, this is the most poorly designed skill I have seen.

 

 

 

总评

我感觉我这份评价缺少一份总评。这份总评也是对温蒂技能树设计师的批评。同样，我不会保证我的批评不尖锐，但我会保证我的批评不使用任何脏话，保证批评礼貌、切题、有建设性。

整个技能树对温蒂之前的玩法带来的改变仅有团队精神的这三个技能。我在帖子里提到”不改CD计算“主要是担心设计师改不明白反而会摧毁这个技能，这个技能起码现在是能用的。小惊吓和灵药只是将原先药剂的一些问题做了修复，看了沃尔特的技能树后我觉得它们应该在没有技能树时的改动中而不是拿出来糊弄技能点。沃尔特增加了那么多的弹药，而温蒂仅仅只有了一种新药水，而且这个药水完全无法带来新的玩法，非常无趣。

暗影亲和只是对原先玩法的数值增强而且触发条件很麻烦。为了所谓的致敬单机版？我的评价是致敬了个寂寞，没人喜欢这种刻意且脱离游戏实际的致敬。月亮亲和尝试引入新玩法但设计师碍于所谓的”平衡“处处给玩家限制（1秒发呆），剥夺玩家自主操作的权利（团队精神攻击指令删除伤害），导致这个技能的实用性还是很糟糕。哀悼荣耀分支的设计则是”设计师不玩游戏“的典型例子，论坛上是有玩家提制作月蛾，但没人觉得40个哀悼荣耀换1个捕虫网是玩过游戏的人能做出来的设计。那个花环也是出于所谓的”平衡“，每个药水的效果用处都很低下。最后把好几个没用的技能拼凑在一起形成了一坨没有用的东西。哀悼荣耀III提供的复活手段我只能认为是设计师懒得写新代码照抄肉块雕像，同时冠以”Wendy is too strong“的理由限制其实用性。

整个技能树非常缺乏新意。“Wendy is too strong”真是掩盖设计粗糙的一个好借口啊，顺便将设计师自己的设计的问题转移为玩家内部的矛盾：你们温蒂玩家”贪得无厌“，这是你们玩家的问题。这次技能树的更新沃托克斯和沃尔特的技能树相当出色和有趣。而温蒂，我只能祝她好运。

Summary

I feel that my evaluation is missing an overall summary. This summary is also a critique of Wendy's skill tree designer. Similarly, I won't guarantee that my criticism won't be sharp, but I will ensure that my critique is free of any profanity, remains polite, relevant, and constructive.

The entire skill tree brings changes to Wendy's previous gameplay only through the three skills of Team Spirits. In my post, I mentioned "not changing the CD calculation" mainly because I was worried that the designer might not understand how to modify it properly and could end up destroying this skill, which is at least functional now. Pipspook and Elixir merely fix some issues that were present with the original Ghostly Elixir. After seeing Walter's skill tree, I feel that these should have been part of the basekit rather than being used to pad out skill points. Walter has gained so much additional ammunition, while Wendy has only received one new type of potion, which doesn't introduce any new gameplay mechanics and is very dull.

Shadow Affinity is just a numerical enhancement to the original gameplay and has cumbersome trigger conditions. Is this supposed to be a homage to DS? My assessment is that it's a homage to nothingness; no one appreciates such a forced and impractical tribute. Lunar Affinity attempts to introduce new gameplay but the designer, constrained by so-called "balance," imposes restrictions everywhere (1s-stun), depriving players of autonomous control (removing damage from Attack At commands), resulting in the skill's practicality being still very poor. The Mourning Glory branch design is a classic example of "designers not playing the game." There were players on the forum suggesting the creation of Moon Moth, but no one thought that exchanging 40 Mourning Glories for 1 bug net was a design that someone who actually plays the game would come up with. That garland, also in the name of "balance," offers effects for each potion that are of very low utility. Finally, several useless skills are cobbled together to form a lump of uselessness. The resurrection method provided by MG III can only be considered as the designer being too lazy to write new code, copying the meat effigy, and then justifying its limited practicality with the excuse that "Wendy is too strong."

The entire skill tree is severely lacking in originality. "Wendy is too strong" is really a great excuse to cover up the rough design, conveniently shifting the designer's own issues into a conflict among players: you Wendy players are "insatiable," that's your problem. In this skill tree update, Wortox and Walter's skill trees are quite outstanding and interesting. As for Wendy, I can only wish her good luck.

[Yaorin yon]

如果是Wortox的技能树，我会对灵魂壁垒有最强烈的修改建议。

如果是Walter的技能树，我会希望他得到其他功能的技能补全和技能整合。

如果是温蒂的技能树，我会有最强烈的修改建议（比划整个技能树）

If it were Wortox's skill tree, I would have the strongest suggestions for modifying the Soul Barrier.

If it were Walter's skill tree, I would hope for him to receive skill completions and integrations for other functionalities.

If it were Wendy's skill tree, I would have the strongest suggestions (show the entire skill tree).

[Civecilim]

25 minutes ago, Yifei_ said:

The recipe for this potion requires forget-me-lots, which is quite troublesome and time-consuming to mass-produce even in long-term servers.

The Lord of the fruit flies gives you unlimited

[Yifei_]

4 minutes ago, Civecilim said:

The Lord of the fruit flies gives you unlimited

I'm aware of this method. During the update of Beefalo Treats, I have tried planting Forget-Me-Lots in this way. However, the biggest issue is that Forget-Me-Lots require constant attention; if you're not careful, they will enter the final growth stage and provide no return at all. The time cost is just too high, and managing Forget-Me-Lots is exhausting.

[Civecilim]

Just now, Yifei_ said:

The time cost is just too high,

It's annoying and the timing is very precise but that's a lot of the game. However, you can create literally unlimited forget me lots. So you only have to do it once in your game, maybe bundle them, and then that's it. It kind of reminds me of killing 9000 shadow knights with aoe for infinite atriums and so that you never have to fight the chess pieces again.

[Yifei_]

4 minutes ago, Civecilim said:

It's annoying and the timing is very precise but that's a lot of the game. However, you can create literally unlimited forget me lots. So you only have to do it once in your game, maybe bundle them, and then that's it. It kind of reminds me of killing 9000 shadow knights with aoe for infinite atriums and so that you never have to fight the chess pieces again.

This might have something to do with personal gaming habits. In the late game, I usually focus my energy on base beautification and expansion, which takes up the vast majority of my gaming time.

Indeed, for some players, mass-producing Forget-Me-Lots is a good way to kill time, but I personally don't like this kind of gameplay. I don't enjoy spending time mass-producing resources like Forget-Me-Lots or Atrium materials. My previous long-term server spent a lot of time building a device for mass-producing Volt Goat Horns, but in the end, over 90% of the Volt Goat Horns were never used. Since then, I've grown to dislike this approach to playing the game. (This is a rather subjective opinion.)

[renamoe]

In my humble opinion, the Mourning Glory Branch (aside from the Wreath, which I appreciate for its aesthetic value) and Vengeful Ghost feel more like filler content rather than meaningful additions.

As for Lunar Affinity and Shadow Affinity, I haven't had the chance to fully experience the beta test, so I'm really curious—how common is it for Klei to adjust skill values like multipliers (whether planar or not, percentage-based or fixed values)? It seems like while some minor aspects have improved, many recent updates are mostly just number tweaks. Does this mean the overall skill tree structure is set, and the developers are generally satisfied with it?

[Yifei_]

52 minutes ago, renamoe said:

As for Lunar Affinity and Shadow Affinity, I haven't had the chance to fully experience the beta test, so I'm really curious—how common is it for Klei to adjust skill values like multipliers (whether planar or not, percentage-based or fixed values)? It seems like while some minor aspects have improved, many recent updates are mostly just number tweaks. Does this mean the overall skill tree structure is set, and the developers are generally satisfied with it?

I'm also a bit confused about some of the recent numerical adjustments (such as unifying Shadow Abigail's planar damage to 25, and the minor tweaks to the probability of Extra Yield). I feel like the differences between adjusting and not adjusting these values are negligible. As for the frequency of Klei's numerical adjustments, I'm not really sure either.

I think Lunar Affinity offers Abigail a new AI and playstyle. When facing bosses, this playstyle has its own strengths compared to Normal Abigail. Players need to judge which one is better based on the boss's behavior logic and plan their actions according to the lunar phase. However, this comes with a very strict penalty: the loss of AoE capabilities. On the other hand, Shadow Affinity is a further enhancement of the previous playstyle. If Abigail's survival can be guaranteed, the benefits will be higher and more noticeable.

I feel that the skill tree has pretty much taken shape, and the likelihood of major adjustments is slim. The Lunar Sisterhood skill has already been "rescued" to a usable state. As for Shadow Sisterhood, I've decided to let it be. The numbers can be adjusted however they like. The complexity of the murder transformation conditions alone means I won't choose it.

52 minutes ago, renamoe said:

In my humble opinion, the Mourning Glory Branch (aside from the Wreath, which I appreciate for its aesthetic value) and Vengeful Ghost feel more like filler content rather than meaningful additions.

(I feel that the best thing about these two skill branches is that I can simply ignore them and don't have to worry about how to allocate my skill points.)

My skill point allocation is as follows:

[Steorra]

Haha it's really funny, now the Lunar Abby users seems most like "Shabby was inconvenient, I have no choice).

I don't think this is a good design.

 

To learn an affinity line for just 1~3 specific bosses, is it really worth it?

[renamoe]

47 minutes ago, Yifei_ said:

I'm also a bit confused about some of the recent numerical adjustments (such as unifying Shadow Abigail's planar damage to 25, and the minor tweaks to the probability of Extra Yield). I feel like the differences between adjusting and not adjusting these values are negligible. As for the frequency of Klei's numerical adjustments, I'm not really sure either.

I think Lunar Affinity offers Abigail a new AI and playstyle. When facing bosses, this playstyle has its own strengths compared to Normal Abigail. Players need to judge which one is better based on the boss's behavior logic and plan their actions according to the lunar phase. However, this comes with a very strict penalty: the loss of AoE capabilities. On the other hand, Shadow Affinity is a further enhancement of the previous playstyle. If Abigail's survival can be guaranteed, the benefits will be higher and more noticeable.

I feel that the skill tree has pretty much taken shape, and the likelihood of major adjustments is slim. The Lunar Sisterhood skill has already been "rescued" to a usable state. As for Shadow Sisterhood, I've decided to let it be. The numbers can be adjusted however they like. The complexity of the murder transformation conditions alone means I won't choose it.

(I feel that the best thing about these two skill branches is that I can simply ignore them and don't have to worry about how to allocate my skill points.)

My skill point allocation is as follows:

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I agree that Lunar Abigail really introduces a fresh playstyle. I've also read that Klei removed the 1-second immobilization that left her unresponsive, which should make her feel much more agile overall. In contrast, Shadow Abigail definitely seems like an improvement compared to Abigail without the skill tree.

I also recall that Klei mentioned not all skills are designed solely for practicality—some are just meant to be fun. With limited skill points available, it's understandable that not every branch can be fully optimized.

[kikia]

I hope the team spirit skill set can be condensed into two skill points.  

[Yaorin yon]

27 minutes ago, kikia said:

I hope the team spirit skill set can be condensed into two skill points.

This might just be a stopgap optimization, because even if the entire skill tree is available, Wendy's skill tree might actually have less actual expansion and useful supplementation than some other characters get with just a few skill points.

.

[Jakepeng99]

9 hours ago, Yifei_ said:

I'm aware of this method. During the update of Beefalo Treats, I have tried planting Forget-Me-Lots in this way. However, the biggest issue is that Forget-Me-Lots require constant attention; if you're not careful, they will enter the final growth stage and provide no return at all. The time cost is just too high, and managing Forget-Me-Lots is exhausting.

Its a good thing because it encourages you to do something niche.

[Lardee]

10 hours ago, Yifei_ said:

The three skills of Team Spirits are the best designed, most creative, and most practical skills in Wendy's skill tree.

There's a reason why everyone thinks these skills are the best part of Wendy's skill tree. It's because anything that gives the player more control over their character and rewards them for using that control properly is good game design.

 

It's for this exact reason that gestalt Abigail's automatic hide-when-hp-is-low ability was bad. It's also why the current switching between regular and gestalt abigail is bad. 

[WenericMember]

Hmmm, I agree with a lot of this, but not all of it.

Certainly agree with the praise for team spirit, it single handedly makes Abigail the best follower in the game, while also making her completely unique. No notes on pipspook quest, lunar or shadow.

I think you're being overly harsh on Vengeful ghost. Wilson's torch toss is bad because it's a capstone skill, locked behind spending multiple insight for a niche effect. This is a standalone skill that has some practical effects in a multiplayer environment.  The dev's have made it clear it's mostly for fun. At absolute worst its harmless. The concept of Die -> Secure Area postmortem via VG -> Revive using Altar is valid. Do wish Wendy wasn't the worst user of it tho.

Per Mourning Glory branch, I think MG2 is fine - while it's not seamlessly integrated, it has a bunch of interesting perks that give compact utility. If it was the tier 3 skill I could see the need to buff it, but as a tier 2 its fine. They should probably halve the costs of MG 1 and definitely buff MG 3 tho.

I disagree that Blessed Sisturn 3 should be 1200hp. It's specifically designed to avoid buffing Wendy v Hordes, but I think lowering the healing reduction to 33% would be fair.

Re Potions skills: I think they're fine, albeit the second least interesting branch. Deep draught is moderately useful while spelunking, and has synergy with MG 2, Ghastly experience should be nerfed, but ultimately it's relative cost still gives Sisturn value. Not being forced to abandon a fight completely once Abigail dies is a valuable tool that I think needs a role in the tree, even if the current implementation is overtuned. Finally, the double potion skill is discount Pipspook quest 3. It could be more creative, but there's nothing inherently wrong with it imo.

Overall, however, I overall agree with the general sentiment that there's one or two egregious issues with the tree, and a variety of minor gripes that overall hold it back from what it could be.

[Yifei_]

2 hours ago, WenericMember said:

I disagree that Blessed Sisturn 3 should be 1200hp. It's specifically designed to avoid buffing Wendy v Hordes, but I think lowering the healing reduction to 33% would be fair.

This is actually a decent way to make changes. I feel that another reason Klei is reluctant to change it is that they have invested a lot of resources in the artistic design based on the “player tag.” Changing it to 1200 hp would not quite match this artistic design.

10 hours ago, renamoe said:

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I agree that Lunar Abigail really introduces a fresh playstyle. I've also read that Klei removed the 1-second immobilization that left her unresponsive, which should make her feel much more agile overall. In contrast, Shadow Abigail definitely seems like an improvement compared to Abigail without the skill tree.

The 1-second immobilization should not have been changed. Previously, there was a bug that caused it to become a 2-second immobilization, but this bug has been fixed in this update. Additionally, the 1-second immobilization now has its own dedicated animation. The 1-second immobilization, well, makes it harder for me to coordinate and adjust the position of Lunar Abigail. However, it's much better than the previous 2-second immobilization.

[linabagel]

Thank you for sharing your gaming experience and the statistics in the previous post.

I agree with most of what you say, but a few I would like to share some thoughts

15 hours ago, Yifei_ said:

Ghastly Experience: The recipe for this potion requires forget-me-lots, which is quite troublesome and time-consuming to mass-produce even in long-term servers. Additionally, the functionality of this potion conflicts with the Sisturn, almost making Abigail's death cost-free. I dislike the design of this potion.

Farming, fishing and so on are also part of dst's game content, so I think this design is actually to connect other content and characters together, is a kind of design to enrich the use of objects. This may have something to do with the way different players play.

15 hours ago, Yifei_ said:

Butterfly Resurrection: The previous changes still haven't addressed the design issue of this skill being useless for Lunar Affinity players. Moreover, we're back to the ridiculous question of whether 40 Mourning Glory or 1 Bug Net has a higher cost. This skill is very crudely tied to Shadow III and has very low practicality.

This could be a way of "regenerating extinct resources". But linking this to other skills is a bit forced and redundant. Maybe it's better alone.

15 hours ago, Yifei_ said:

Perennial Altar: A new skin for the meat effigy. As the final skill in the Mourning Glory branch, its practicality is still quite poor, lacking originality, and it's even less practical than the meat effigy. The art design of this skill is quite good.

It is a convenient means of resurrection in multiplayer games and can be kept.

These are my personal opinions. Thanks again for your hard work.

[Yifei_]

2 minutes ago, linabagel said:

Thank you for sharing your gaming experience and the statistics in the previous post.

I agree with most of what you say, but a few I would like to share some thoughts

15 hours ago, Yifei_ said:

Ghastly Experience: The recipe for this potion requires forget-me-lots, which is quite troublesome and time-consuming to mass-produce even in long-term servers. Additionally, the functionality of this potion conflicts with the Sisturn, almost making Abigail's death cost-free. I dislike the design of this potion.

Farming, fishing and so on are also part of dst's game content, so I think this design is actually to connect other content and characters together, is a kind of design to enrich the use of objects. This may have something to do with the way different players play.

15 hours ago, Yifei_ said:

Butterfly Resurrection: The previous changes still haven't addressed the design issue of this skill being useless for Lunar Affinity players. Moreover, we're back to the ridiculous question of whether 40 Mourning Glory or 1 Bug Net has a higher cost. This skill is very crudely tied to Shadow III and has very low practicality.

This could be a way of "regenerating extinct resources". But linking this to other skills is a bit forced and redundant. Maybe it's better alone.

15 hours ago, Yifei_ said:

Perennial Altar: A new skin for the meat effigy. As the final skill in the Mourning Glory branch, its practicality is still quite poor, lacking originality, and it's even less practical than the meat effigy. The art design of this skill is quite good.

It is a convenient means of resurrection in multiplayer games and can be kept.

These are my personal opinions. Thanks again for your hard work.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts! After all, my assessment is also based on my own gaming experience, and subjectivity is inevitable. Some skills may not suit me, but that doesn't mean they are bad.

The Mourning Glory branch might be an example. MG II may offer players more choices to some extent, and MG III provides a new means of resurrection for those who don't craft magic technology or explore ruins (but I still hope that their functions can be more innovative and practical). As for the butterfly resurrection skill of MG I, I actually hope to reduce the cost of Mourning Glory on one hand, and on the other hand, using petals to create butterflies (while also making moon butterflies with moon tree blossoms) would make this skill more practical.

Regarding Forget-Me-Lots, this is indeed related to my own gaming habits. I'm not particularly fond of farming in the first place, let alone the time-consuming and labor-intensive Forget-Me-Lots. However, I understand and acknowledge that many players enjoy the sense of achievement and harvest that comes from farming; it's just not for me.

Another example is the change to the sanity aura by Blessed Sisturn II. When I was still a beginner, I relied quite a bit on Sisturn's sanity recovery, and this skill is definitely helpful for players who are not yet familiar with sanity management and nightmare creatures. But after I became familiar with strategies for dealing with Nightmare Creatures and learned more ways to recover sanity, I hardly used it anymore. It's useless to me, so I won't spend skill points on it, but that doesn't mean there's a problem with the design of the skill.

[zzzzzzzzzzz]

非常感谢科雷我已经放弃和官方进行沟通了，温蒂技能树执意如此我们也无能为力，不过幸好我是pc端，还有创意工坊可以救我～

史中史，修修改改这么多版依然无药可救

[yuntunhemudu]

很好的帖子。我也分享一下我对温蒂技能树的看法，以下是我的技能选择：

Great post. I would also like to share my thoughts on Wendy's Skill Tree. Here are my skill choices:

我选择受佑姐妹骨灰盒的原因是团队精神操作量大，不适合多线操作能力差的玩家。选择哀悼荣耀分支的原因是坟墓分支在中期出海去奶奶岛后才可用。

The reason why I chose the Blessed Sisturn is that Team Spirit's operation is large, which is not suitable for players with poor multi line operation ability. The reason for choosing the Mourning Glory branch is that the Grave branch will only be available after the mid-term voyage to Hermit Island.

 

对于暗影亲和、月亮亲和、鬼魂复仇、团队精神、小惊吓任务、灵体草药我和你的观点一致。尽管灵体草药的额外产出能节省一些勿忘我、救赎之心和纯粹辉煌等稀有材料，但换来的效果并不符合一个4级技能应有的效果。特别是要考虑灵体草药3已经是一个填充技能了。

I agree with your views on Shadow Affinity, Lunar Affinity, Vengeful Ghost, Team Spirit, Pipspook Request, and Ghostly Elixir. Although the Extra Yield of Ghostly Elixir can save some rare materials such as Forget-Me-Lots, Telltale Heart, and Pure Brilliance, its effect does not match the expected effect of a level 4 skill. Especially considering that Ghostly Elixir 3 is already a filling skill.

 

不一样的意见是：

The different opinions are:

 

放弃团队精神，点亮受佑姐妹骨灰盒后，尽管有些狼狈，但恐怖经历意外地好用，删除恐怖经历可能会带来新的问题。

After giving up the team spirit and lighting up the Blessed Sisturn, although somewhat embarrassed, Ghastly Experience was unexpectedly easy to use. Deleting Ghastly Experience may bring new problems.

 

受佑姐妹骨灰盒：尽管我选择了它，但我对它相当不满意。我放弃了团队精神这样在生活质量、阿比盖尔生存能力、操作上限都很有优势的技能，换来的受佑姐妹骨灰盒带来了需要种勿忘我、管理月树花等麻烦，但仅提升了阿比盖尔生存能力。

受佑姐妹骨灰盒的改进建议：

一级：增加花瓣保质期时间——>增加花瓣保质期时间，每次更换花瓣时，向周围释放一次照料植物的效果。

二级：提升骨灰盒理智光环，增加疯狂光环的抵御能力。——>提升骨灰盒理智光环，增加疯狂光环的抵御能力，在骨灰盒附近睡觉时获得少量的额外SAN值和HP值恢复。

三级：放入月树花提供玩家标签。——>放入月树花提供玩家标签，放入恶魔花瓣时阿比盖尔所承受的部分伤害会转移给温蒂承受。

改进的目的：

1.更换花瓣时获得额外小奖励，使其变得没那么无聊。

2.团队增益。在公共服务器中，让那些帮助温蒂更换花瓣的队友获得小奖励，减少骨灰盒中的花瓣被其他人偷走的可能。

3.制作救赎之心后，更好地通过睡觉弥补HP值的消耗。

4.提高角色可操作上限。

5.让受佑姐妹骨灰盒分支和团队精神分支形成竞争关系。

Blessed Sisturn: Although I chose it, I was quite dissatisfied with it. I have gave up the team spirit, a skill that has advantages in the QoL, Abigail's viability, and the upper limit of operation. However, skills exchanged, the Blessed Sisturn brought about the need to plant Forget-Me-Lots and manage Lune Tree Blossom but only improved Abigail's viability.

Suggestions for improvement of Blessed Sisturn:

Level 1: Increases the shelf life of petals -> Increases the shelf life of petals, releasing the effect of caring for plants to the surroundings every time petals are replaced.

Level 2: Enhances the sanity aura of the urn and increases resistance to madness auras-> Enhances the sanity aura of the urn and increases resistance to madness auras, and obtain a small amount of additional SAN and HP value recovery when sleeping near the urn.

Level 3: Placing Lune Tree Blossom provides player tags-> Placing Lune Tree Blossom provides player tags, and when placing the Dark Petals, some of the damage sustained by Abigail will be transferred to Wendy.

Purpose of improvement:

1. Get extra small rewards when replacing petals to make it less boring.

2. Team gain. In the public server, give small rewards to teammates who help Wendy replace petals, reducing the possibility of petals in the urn being stolen by others.

3. After creating the Telltale Heart, could compensate for the depletion of HP values through sleep.

4. Increase the upper limit of character operability.

5. Let the Blessed Sisturn branch and the team spirit branch form a competitive relationship.

 

 

哀悼荣耀分支：我主要对幽灵花环不满意。亡者补药、不屈药剂、夜影万金油和强健精油制作材料简单，它们提供的Buff脱下幽灵花环就失效也算合理。但灵魂万灵药和蒸馏复仇制作材料珍贵，它们提供的Buff脱下幽灵花环就失效的话就太不公平了。

幽灵花环的改进建议：灵魂万灵药和蒸馏复仇提供的Buff脱下幽灵花环后仍会持续存在，直到结束，其他药剂保留原样。

改进的目的：

1.为了公平。

2.提高蒸馏复仇的使用率，进一步发挥灵体草药4的效果。

3.对不骑牛的温蒂玩家有利。

4.该改动不会让温蒂+牛牛更加超模。

Mourning Glory Branch: I am mainly dissatisfied with the Wreath. The materials for making Revenant Restorative, Unyielding Draugh, Nightshade Nostrum, and Vigor Mortis are simple, and it is reasonable for the Buff they provide to become ineffective after removing the Wreath. But the Spectral Cure-All and Distilled Vengeance making materials are precious, and it would be unfair if the Buff they provide loses its effectiveness after removing the Wreath.

Suggestions for improving the Wreath: The Spectral Cure-All and Distilled Vengeance Buff will continue to exist after removing the Wreath until the end, while other potions will remain unchanged.

Purpose of improvement:

1. For the sake of fairness.

2. Increase the utilization rate of Distilled Vengeance and further unleash the effects of Ghostly Elixir 4.

3. Beneficial for Wendy who do not use Beefalo.

4. This change will not make Wendy + Beefalo more OP

[WenericMember]

2 hours ago, Yifei_ said:

Another example is the change to the sanity aura by Blessed Sisturn II. When I was still a beginner, I relied quite a bit on Sisturn's sanity recovery, and this skill is definitely helpful for players who are not yet familiar with sanity management and nightmare creatures. But after I became familiar with strategies for dealing with Nightmare Creatures and learned more ways to recover sanity, I hardly used it anymore. It's useless to me, so I won't spend skill points on it, but that doesn't mean there's a problem with the design of the skill.

Wait the skill buffs the sanity aura of the sisturn? I don't think that's the description? My understanding was that it gave Wendy's 0.75x sanity drain multiplier to other's and further reduced her own, but the skill's never seen much discussion and isn't really that easy to test.

If that's the case it's completely contradictory to the skill description.

[Yaorin yon]

21 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

Wait the skill buffs the sanity aura of the sisturn? I don't think that's the description? My understanding was that it gave Wendy's 0.75x sanity drain multiplier to other's and further reduced her own, but the skill's never seen much discussion and isn't really that easy to test.

If that's the case it's completely contradictory to the skill description.

It is indeed an increase, but because of its large collision box, it doesn't feel very exaggerated. However, for this skill, the main issue is that the entire branch just doesn't seem very attractive.

[Yifei_]

23 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

Wait the skill buffs the sanity aura of the sisturn? I don't think that's the description? My understanding was that it gave Wendy's 0.75x sanity drain multiplier to other's and further reduced her own, but the skill's never seen much discussion and isn't really that easy to test.

If that's the case it's completely contradictory to the skill description.

I tested it in the game, and according to the information from the Insight mod, the sanity aura of Sisturn increases from “+25/min” to “+40/min” after Blessed Sisturn II is activated. The text description in the interface may not be complete.

The meaning of the orange Chinese characters is “Sanity Aura +39.2/min,” and the meaning of the purple Chinese characters is “Rot Rate 50%.”

[WenericMember]

3 minutes ago, Yifei_ said:

I tested it in the game, and according to the information from the Insight mod, the sanity aura of Sisturn increases from “+25/min” to “+40/min” after Blessed Sisturn II is activated. The text description in the interface may not be complete.

That's weird, Maybe it does both, like how the Pipspook I reduces distance between pipspook items, but has a hidden attribute of increasing pipspook spawn chance per day from 5% to 15%?

IG someone would have to look at code bc I don't think anything shows Wendy's sanity modifier.

[Yifei_]

1 minute ago, WenericMember said:

That's weird, Maybe it does both, like how the Pipspook I reduces distance between pipspook items, but has a hidden attribute of increasing pipspook spawn chance per day from 5% to 15%?

IG someone would have to look at code bc I don't think anything shows Wendy's sanity modifier.

It's possible. I learned about the increase in Sisturn's sanity recovery rate from some beta test introduction videos on Bilibili.

Additionally, activating this skill slightly weakens the Bee Queen Crown. I tested it and found that the sanity recovery rate of the Bee Queen Crown is also affected by the reduction in the sanity modifier.