The Nerfs to Lunar Abigail That Were Not Mentioned in the Last Hotfix.

[Crestwave]

1 hour ago, Koomin said:

Hmm before the patch:

Shadow Abigail way too powerful with 30 planar defense, and shadow vex doing tons of damage pre rift and insignificant damage post rift.  Normal suggestions are made to reduce planar defense and adjust vex to deal reduced damage but planar.  
Gestalt Abigail in a great final state.

 

After the patch:

Shadow Abigail still a menace with none of the problematic things changed

Gestalt Abigail is weakened instead

 

I have no clue what the idea here was.

Indeed, I really liked gestalt Abi because of how she was one of the few skills that actually has a downside; I find downsides for strength much more interesting than resources for strength (the latter sadly being more common lately as they transition away from the original character design philosophy).

The decision to remove all her upsides while adding even more downsides is really strange.

I wonder if they meant to replace the current stun with the ball idle form rather than add them together?

[Steorra]

19 minutes ago, Crestwave said:

I find downsides for strength much more interesting than resources for strength 

The decision to remove all her upsides while adding even more downsides is really strange.

Devs might simply thought that "wow you guys are really enjoying the downside itself (since "downside" was already highlighted in many past feedbacks), let's adding more downside here.

1. To remove the AoE ability from lunar abi.

This was intended to ensure that lunar abi is a choice for "power exchange for power". AoE was never an ability for lunar abi so then devs decide to simply remove it.

 

2. To add an extra stun animation to lunar abi.

The was intended to ensure that lunar abi's downside is "valid". Which means this change is simply for preventing players to avoided the downside of lunar abi by team spirit. 

It's easy to understand - if you could use team spirit commands to diminish the downside of lunar abi, what's the meaning of the intended downside here?

 

34 minutes ago, Crestwave said:

The decision to remove all her upsides

Also, this was might be not true.

The original intended upside of lunar abi was that she need lesser management.

The AoE removing change is telling you "there's no more AoE by team spirit for lunar abi, no more management needed."

Same for the stun time change - it just tell you "stop your meaningless efforts to manage lunar abi." Lunar abi was never a choice for "management". She need lesser and even no management. And this was the original design intention for her. Both these two changes is simply for ensure that the "no management needed" upside is valid to lunar abi.

[Crestwave]

18 minutes ago, Steorra said:

Devs might simply thought that "wow you guys are really enjoying the downside itself (since "downside" was already highlighted in many past feedbacks), let's adding more downside here.

I feel like this is a bad faith interpretation of what happened.

The original design for all DST characters is that you get power in return for the downsides (which is why Wilson had basically no perks in exchange for no downsides), it's not exactly a concept that is new to the devs.

If they really wanted to go all-in with downsides, they could restore her damage to its original state as an exchange.

[Steorra]

7 minutes ago, Crestwave said:

If they really wanted to go all-in with downsides

Not really I think.

The downside could be a side feature to highlight how the upside is. That's the reason why I think there was an intention to highlight lunar abi's "lesser management needed" upside by simply invalidated most management to lunar abi.

[Crestwave]

3 minutes ago, Steorra said:

Not really I think.

The downside could be a side feature to highlight how the upside is. That's the reason why I think there was an intention to highlight lunar abi's "lesser management needed" upside by simply invalidated most management to lunar abi.

You can still use team spirit commands during her "stun"; if anything, this forces you to manage her more because she stands still instead of moving away like she used to unless you use a command. I'm leaning on this being a bug because it has no code changes and is simply the result of an added animation of her stunned state, which was presumably implemented as a visual indication for her original stun. I've filed a report for it here:

 

[Yifei_]

32 minutes ago, Crestwave said:

If they really wanted to go all-in with downsides, they could restore her damage to its original state as an exchange.

I actually think that if we want to weaken Lunar Abigail, we should reduce her damage, but keep the duration of the vulnerability effect, and make her AI able to cooperate well with the player (that is, remove all mechanisms related to stun).

Keeping the duration of the vulnerability effect encourages Wendy to fight with Lunar Abigail.

Removing all stuns allows players to more precisely control the relative positions of Wendy and Lunar Abigail.

If we increase the damage value and disrupt the cooperation between Wendy and Lunar Abigail, it will make the game very boring. I have tested almost all the bosses, and now the design of Lunar Abigail gives me a bad feeling that "you can completely ignore Lunar Abigail and just take care of Wendy yourself."

[Crestwave]

24 minutes ago, Yifei_ said:

I actually think that if we want to weaken Lunar Abigail, we should reduce her damage, but keep the duration of the vulnerability effect, and make her AI able to cooperate well with the player (that is, remove all mechanisms related to stun).

Keeping the duration of the vulnerability effect encourages Wendy to fight with Lunar Abigail.

Removing all stuns allows players to more precisely control the relative positions of Wendy and Lunar Abigail.

If we increase the damage value and disrupt the cooperation between Wendy and Lunar Abigail, it will make the game very boring. I have tested almost all the bosses, and now the design of Lunar Abigail gives me a bad feeling that "you can completely ignore Lunar Abigail and just take care of Wendy yourself."

One idea I had was to make it so that lunar Abi shies away (like she does at <25% health right now) when an enemy has aggro on her, forcing Wendy to fight with her.

I wouldn't mind focusing on survivability either, though. I think her main balance points are damage, survivability and AoE. Power can be taken from some of these points to increase the power of another. Currently, lunar Abi looks to perform poorly on all three.

[Mr Giggio]

7 hours ago, Steorra said:

You need not to be a fly monkey for gaslighting here, according to the code it was definitely intended but not a bug.

The code showed up after my coment that I even did like to show agreement, we had arguments before and I rather not go further with you. Really victimazing type of mindset, get off my back.

[Jason]

There was no intent to extend the rest time. Indeed, there was an animation made to animate during the rest, but there was some confusion in the setup.
It will get fixed.

[SilverSpoon]

15 hours ago, Yifei_ said:

This might indeed be a bug? I remember in the previous beta version, when using the Lunar Abigail with a potion and the "Attack at" option, it could cause 100 AOE planar damage as well as her inherent physical damage.

Even if it was a manual change, it could still be a bug, for example if another buff made Gestabby too strong, they added a timer nerf, then later undid the buff and forgot to undo the timer nerf.

[DaDa_waw]

10 minutes ago, Jason said:

There was no intent to extend the rest time. Indeed, there was an animation made to animate during the rest, but there was some confusion in the setup.
It will get fixed.

Thank you for your explanation. Communication is an important part and has a positive impact on everyone. I don't mind having more about it.

[Hezi hh]

7 minutes ago, Jason said:

无意延长休息时间。确实，休息期间制作了一个动画，但设置上有些混乱。
这个问题会得到解决。

the other one? Is that a bug or not?

[Yifei_]

6 hours ago, Jason said:

There was no intent to extend the rest time. Indeed, there was an animation made to animate during the rest, but there was some confusion in the setup.
It will get fixed.

Thank you for your explanations.

[Peasant]

On 1/27/2025 at 11:03 AM, Yifei_ said:

The pictures show the nerfs Klei gave to Lunar Abigail in terms of sprint commands. It can be seen that if Abigail has the gestalt tag, the dash_attack_onupdate in the first image will immediately exit, and the special effects in the second image will not be generated.

Summary: This is not a bug.

那冲刺没伤害那个呢，是bug还是有意为之