Wendy's skill tree importance

[aoka404]

I don't know whether klei officials have learned from this incident that Wendy's popularity in the entire game is particularly high. So everyone, knowing that each character would have a skill tree, wanted our lovely Wendy to have one that was fun and comfortable to play with.

However, this time there are three skill trees. Compared with the other two, the operation of Wendy's skill tree is tedious and boring, the conditions are strictly limited, and the actual reinforcement is very little. And the expectations of the majority of players can be described as the opposite. Especially with the demon skill tree on the side for comparison, we can't help but suspect that there are serious problems with the official attitude toward Wendy, its understanding of the player community and even its own employees' abilities.

Finally, I hope that the klei official can put the overall situation first, and cannot make this update a tragedy like transplanting a chicken heart to a person because of the need to take care of someone's emotions. But if you continue to persist, this will be your biggest stain, the player will not understand any of your mistakes.

@V2C

[Koomin]

They have been incredibly understanding and have shown more effort and work on Wendy's skill tree compared to almost all of the other skills trees in the game so far combined.  The official attitude towards Wendy is way higher than the other characters, and if anything, the other two characters in this update deserve a lot of the time that is instead going towards Wendy.

[Steorra]

6 minutes ago, Koomin said:

 the other two characters in this update deserve a lot of the time that is instead going towards Wendy.

Simply divide Wendy's tree out of the beta would satisfy your needs here (if it's a truth that Wendy's working does draws the "love" of devs from other characters.)

[Koomin]

5 minutes ago, Steorra said:

Simply divide Wendy's tree out of the beta would satisfy your needs here (if it's a truth that Wendy's working does draws the "love" of devs from other characters.)

It will draw the "love" of devs from other characters and updates that are scheduled for after this, which is just as bad.  At this point I have issues still with Wendy's skill tree (Shadow vex is nonsense), but it has gotten way more work than it possibly needed, and time should be spent on the other two characters and future updates in general.  It's already the most thorough skill tree in the game.

[Steorra]

10 hours ago, Koomin said:

It will draw the "love" of devs from other characters and updates that are scheduled for after this, which is just as bad.  At this point I have issues still with Wendy's skill tree (Shadow vex is nonsense), but it has gotten way more work than it possibly needed, and time should be spent on the other two characters and future updates in general.  It's already the most thorough skill tree in the game.

Then what about to makes Wendy become the last one of the skill tree?

[Cassielu]

10 hours ago, Koomin said:

They have been incredibly understanding and have shown more effort and work on Wendy's skill tree compared to almost all of the other skills trees in the game so far combined.  The official attitude towards Wendy is way higher than the other characters, and if anything, the other two characters in this update deserve a lot of the time that is instead going towards Wendy.

I disagree, Wendy just gets the most assets but the least care.

These assets are wasted on Easter Egg, Grave, and other fringe projects, instead of creating content suitable for the characters at a high rate of utilization like the other two characters. Trying to curry favor with the player base by piling up numbers and playing with feelings in a cheap way. It left her with a lot of things, but very little that really mattered.

[Catapult 2.0]

10 hours ago, Koomin said:

They have been incredibly understanding and have shown more effort and work on Wendy's skill tree compared to almost all of the other skills trees in the game so far combined

  因为他们一开始就对温蒂的定位错误“too strong”，导致他们做出来的技能树整体版型分支足够糟糕，导致引起最受欢迎的角色的玩家群体不满，他们不得不改了又改，但他们并没有重新对温蒂定位，还是觉得温蒂“too strong”了，导致所有的更改都离不开糟糕的版型和设计思路，始终不愿意重做整个技能树，所以才一直在做无用功。并不是他们有多关心温蒂，只是在修修补补罢了。
  如果你要反驳温蒂现在“too strong”请拿出合理的分析来，与相似定位且拥有技能树的角色进行横向对比。

  Because they mispositioned Wendy "too strong" from the beginning, which led to the overall version branch of the skill tree they made bad enough, which led to the dissatisfaction of the player base of the most popular characters, they had to change and change, but they did not reposition Wendy, and still felt that Wendy was "too strong", resulting in all the changes being inseparable from the bad version and design ideas, and they were always unwilling to redo the entire skill tree, so they have been doing useless work. It's not that they care about Wendy much, they're just tinkering.
  If you're going to argue that Wendy is "too strong" right now, come up with a reasonable analysis and compare it side-by-side with characters with similar positioning and skill trees.

[Y0sH]

It's not that Wendy is "Too Strong" it's moreso people want to buff her so she can do damage on par with characters that do more damage. However, that's literally her only listed downside. "She doesn't hit very hard." It's in plain lettering before you pick her in game. So outright making her do more DPS seems counter-intuitve to the original design of the character. 

Y'all seem to judge Wendy's viability based on how much damage she can do compared to damage-focused characters but you wouldn't judge a fish on its ability to climb trees would you?

[DVGMedia]

3 minutes ago, Y0sH said:

It's not that Wendy is "Too Strong" it's moreso people want to buff her so she can do damage on par with characters that do more damage. However, that's literally her only listed downside. "She doesn't hit very hard." It's in plain lettering before you pick her in game. So outright making her do more DPS seems counter-intuitve to the original design of the character. 

Y'all seem to judge Wendy's viability based on how much damage she can do compared to damage-focused characters but you wouldn't judge a fish on its ability to climb trees would you?

no one serious about balance has said that.

but also on op position i would honestly perfer if wendy was the last skill tree so that way they can do her right.

or if they want to go with something good that can be done now  i got a post talking about some of the fluff that could be removed  and replaced with something more interesting

 

[Y0sH]

2 minutes ago, DVGMedia said:

no one serious about balance has said that.

but also on op position i would honestly perfer if wendy was the last skill tree so that way they can do her right.

or if they want to go with something good that can be done now  i got a post talking about some of the fluff that could be removed  and replaced with something more interesting

 

The fact that Lunar Abi was able to do ludicrous amounts of damage to enemies before adjusted shows that people were very serious about buffing damage and it actually was being listened to by Devs.

The amount of "Is Wendy Strong?" posts also FAR outweigh legitimate balance posts like yourself. (I'm subscribed to your channel btw) Unfortunately the most vocal part of your audience is just outright asking for a stronger DPS-wise character and that's most likely why alot of you feel like your serious concerns aren't being taken well.. seriously.

[Dingle]

2 minutes ago, Y0sH said:

The amount of "Is Wendy Strong?" posts also FAR outweigh legitimate balance posts like yourself. (I'm subscribed to your channel btw) Unfortunately the most vocal part of your audience is just outright asking for a stronger DPS-wise character and that's most likely why alot of you feel like your serious concerns aren't being taken well.. seriously.

That and all the manipulation and lyjng from some. It's hard to tell what is a legitimate issue, and what is just some ploy to get Wendy buffed.

It really drowns out good feedback and ideas.

[Steorra]

6 minutes ago, Y0sH said:

that's most likely why alot of you feel like your serious concerns aren't being taken well.. seriously.

You are trying to start another meaningless arguments by spreading selective facts, and your efforts of trying to divide the player bases is neat. I would like to see what moderator would do to such repeatedly behaviour.

4 minutes ago, Dingle said:

That and all the manipulation and lyjng from some. It's hard to tell what is a legitimate issue, and what is just some ploy to get Wendy buffed.

It really drowns out good feedback and ideas.

I agree.

[DVGMedia]

2 minutes ago, Y0sH said:

The fact that Lunar Abi was able to do ludicrous amounts of damage to enemies before adjusted shows that people were very serious about buffing damage and it actually was being listened to by Devs.

that was default though. It was over tuned that way cause the devs set it like that.  The devs even state thats how they do balancing cause can always adjust numbers later.
I have seen no real threads talking about buffing the damage of things. The main thing people were focused on were survivability or creating unique ways to play for abby.

I really think we should focus on creating the more unique ways to play as wendy
because alot of the skills don't really do anything fun for wendy. They just make a boring task easier.

And well most of that can stay there are some points that can go to making things more interseting. Like new potions that can affect the wreath and abby  or going back with the repurposing older versions of wendy for the skill tree. Changing the shroud to be an evasive item instead of a tank item.
or even bringing back the old version of abby from the refresh.
There is so many posibilities.

[Y0sH]

1 minute ago, Dingle said:

That and all the manipulation and lyjng from some. It's hard to tell what is a legitimate issue, and what is just some ploy to get Wendy buffed.

It really drowns out good feedback and ideas.

Yeah, I've seen amazing ideas for Wendy get completely overshadowed with ragebait post of Wendy's strength. 

[DVGMedia]

3 minutes ago, Dingle said:

That and all the manipulation and lyjng from some. It's hard to tell what is a legitimate issue, and what is just some ploy to get Wendy buffed.

It really drowns out good feedback and ideas.

I know the noise and the extreme vocal people are going to say the things that they are but they are usually the ones that are the smallest group of people.
There really are some problems still with the way the tree is setup  and there are ways to fix it so that there is at least a semblance of choice to mix up wendys gameplay.

[Dingle]

Just now, Y0sH said:

Yeah, I've seen amazing ideas for Wendy get completely overshadowed with ragebait post of Wendy's strength. 

Amazing ideas have been there since the beginning! I can remember DVG doing great posts for example, and since the start of the beta!

Too bad it gets drowned out. Too bad it's been drowned out for way over a month now. All those resources wasted on disingenuous "feedback".

[Steorra]

10 minutes ago, DVGMedia said:

I have seen no real threads talking about buffing the damage of things.

They were simply trying to manipulate you by using selective facts here:

Unfortunately the most vocal part of your audience is just outright asking for a stronger DPS-wise character

The argument might be a fact, but it was quoted out of the things happened beyond this forum. They were gave an evidence from "your audience", which might not a member of this forum. It's a fact but completely off topic about the discussion what happened here.

[Y0sH]

1 minute ago, DVGMedia said:

that was default though. It was over tuned that way cause the devs set it like that.  The devs even state thats how they do balancing cause can always adjust numbers later.
I have seen no real threads talking about buffing the damage of things. The main thing people were focused on were survivability or creating unique ways to play for abby.

I really think we should focus on creating the more unique ways to play as wendy
because alot of the skills don't really do anything fun for wendy. They just make a boring task easier.

And well most of that can stay there are some points that can go to making things more interseting. Like new potions that can affect the wreath and abby  or going back with the repurposing older versions of wendy for the skill tree. Changing the shroud to be an evasive item instead of a tank item.
or even bringing back the old version of abby from the refresh.
There is so many posibilities.

You're right, I believe there are many amazing possibilities and things that could help her Skilltree out. I don't know if you frequented the Beta when her tree was first released but it was rough to say the least and the more vocal crowd was literally outright threatening developers so that was what got attention not creative ideas to help Wendy.

Also it's important that with this Beta it seems that players more monotonous tasks haven't been taken away completely for the most part but made to be less monotonous. For example before the Skilltree, Wortox either farmed Spiders or most likely bees. With the addition of his Skilltree you're still gunna be farming bees for souls but more efficiently.

[Dingle]

7 minutes ago, DVGMedia said:

I have seen no real threads talking about buffing the damage of things. The main thing people were focused on were survivability or creating unique ways to play for abby. .

There haven't been lately. I'd say this died down before the break, nearly immediately after it was shown that Wendy can do near or at Wolfgang levels of damage now.

I don't think I'm misremembering the seemingly endless damage comparisons with other characters.

[Steorra]

4 minutes ago, Dingle said:

There haven't been lately. I'd say this died down before the break, nearly immediately after it was shown that Wendy can do near or at Wolfgang levels of damage now.

I don't think I'm misremembering the seemingly endless damage comparisons with other characters.

The fact is for recently there were some voices keep asking to nerf DPS of Wendy but not asked for a buffing. Cursed Vex need get its attention to fix.

I have no idea what's the meaning of showing a dated out fact as an off topic evidence for current discussion.

[Dingle]

5 minutes ago, Steorra said:

The fact is for recently there were some voices keep asking to nerf DPS of Wendy but not asked for a buffing. Cursed Vex need get its attention to fix.

I have no idea what's the meaning of showing a dated out fact as an off topic evidence for current discussion.

It's relevant to "good Wendy ideas got drowned out by endless bad feedback over the course of the beta."

[DaDa_waw]

12 minutes ago, Dingle said:

There haven't been lately. I'd say this died down before the break, nearly immediately after it was shown that Wendy can do near or at Wolfgang levels of damage now.

I don't think I'm misremembering the seemingly endless damage comparisons with other characters.

We have expressed since quite early on that the overall damage of Moon Abigail should be reduced and the proportion of Planar Damage should be increased. As a result, KLei chose to take out of context and cut the overall damage in half, without increasing the positional damage.

I can give many more examples like this. KLei deliberately chose the most frustrating approach every time, thus creating everything we have today. The problem lies with KLei, not every proposer who strives for a better experience.

[Steorra]

4 minutes ago, Dingle said:

good Wendy ideas got drowned out by endless bad feedback over the course of the beta.

Tbh, we have no right to judge that if "good Wendy ideas got drowned out" was relevant to "endless bad feedback over the course of the beta" or not.

This might be a truth, and might not. Only devs and the member of Klei who took the responsibility of feedback collecting work could judge if this has happened or not.

So before it was confirmed as a truth officially, I don't think the topic of it is constructive.

[Cassielu]

12 minutes ago, DaDa_waw said:

We

Who's "We"?

38 minutes ago, Dingle said:

That and all the manipulation and lyjng from some. It's hard to tell what is a legitimate issue, and what is just some ploy to get Wendy buffed.

Honestly, I think you're one of the worst parts of "overshadowed with ragebait post of Wendy's strength. " I've seen you scream something like "they just want Wendy to get unreasonable buffs" under almost every Wendy post, whether they're asking for buffs strength or not.

[Dingle]

You reap what you sow, guys.