Remove redundant helpless and noisy skills from Wendy's skilltree.

[Cassielu]

I know "ask for remove" is not a popular idea on the forums because for some reason they are considered disrespectful to developers, but this is obviously the easiest way to fix Wendy skilltree, and I think it is much more respectful than asking for a huge rework. It should be worthy of discussion and consideration anyway.

Basically it includes:

• Pipspook branch
• Grave branch
• Mourning Glory branch
• Vengeful Ghos

[Dingle]

That seems pretty extreme.

"The easiest way to fix Wendy's skill tree is to delete over a third of it".

It seems like a huge rework.

[Steorra]

I still have no clue about the vengeful ghost design intention. I have never see any other skills from other characters's has a similar design. I mean, useless, meaningful, lonely, and only for flavour.

[Bumber64]

5 minutes ago, Dingle said:

That seems pretty extreme.

"The easiest way to fix Wendy's skill tree is to delete over a third of it".

It seems like a huge rework.

Only if they decide to replace the skills with new ones.

Instead you could just collect ~13 insight and be done. Wendy could have the only 100% completable skill tree.

It wouldn't take any extra effort on Klei's part.

[Cassielu]

18 minutes ago, Dingle said:

That seems pretty extreme.

"The easiest way to fix Wendy's skill tree is to delete over a third of it".

It seems like a huge rework.

This is conservative compared to requiring a huge rework, which will not create any extra work for Klei.

There's also the added benefit that it's an undisputed nerf. It will not be mistaken for asking for buff

18 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

Instead you could just collect ~13 insight and be done. Wendy could have the only 100% completable skill tree.

BTW for those who don't like this, they can be replaced with skills like "+10% light range/damage absorption" that can be done in three minutes of programming

[Bumber64]

2 minutes ago, Cassielu said:

BTW for those who don't like this, they can be replaced with skills like "+10% light range/damage absorption" that can be done in three minutes of programming

+50% increase in pipspook mourning glory

[DVGMedia]

45 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

Only if they decide to replace the skills with new ones.

 

I had made a post on this on previous threads so ill just link what I said
I was able to remove 5 skills that basically do nothing and add in potentially 3 that could be choices for alternate playstyles that still utilize the skills that exist in the tree currently.  I cant really think of 2 others for the final 2 points.

[WenericMember]

This is ridiculous. They're filler skills. They exist for pretty much every survivor's skill tree. They're fine.

Woodie has quick picker & treeguard damage, Willow has lighter radius and burn duration, along with (imo) most bernie skills. Wurt has wetness armour. Wolfgang has crit chance.

Most of the skills you're trying to have removed are far more useful or interesting.

[Steorra]

6 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

Woodie has quick picker & treeguard damage

I can't take this seriously until your prove me that your Woodie experience times have been longer than 50 hours for the whole gameplay of DST.

7 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

Willow has lighter radius and burn duration

Burn duration is useful for some scenarios by its' advantage of horde control. 

I agree with the lighter radius part. And samely I think this line should not exist as well.

9 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

, along with (imo) most bernie skills

If you think most of them are filler, I believe that most Wendy players would be happy to take care of those skills for you to empower Abby.

11 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

Wurt has wetness armour.

I'm sorry? This was one of the most powerful skill (but only has the effect for Wurt's mechanic) in the whole DST.

12 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

Wolfgang has crit chance.

This is powerful as well, the reason makes you feels that it as a filler is that other skills of Wolfgang is more powerful than this one.

[WenericMember]

7 minutes ago, Steorra said:

I can't take this seriously until your prove me that your Woodie experience times have been longer than 50 hours for the whole gameplay of DST.

Burn duration is useful for some scenarios by its' advantage of horde control. 

I agree with the lighter radius part. And samely I think this line should not exist as well.

If you think most of them are filler, I believe that most Wendy players would be happy to take care of those skills for you to empower Abby.

I'm sorry? This was one of the most powerful skill (but only has the effect for Wurt's mechanic) in the whole DST.

This is powerful as well, the reason makes you feels that it as a filler is that other skills of Wolfgang is more powerful than this one.

And How is doubled Pipspook Rewards a meaningless perk?

How is further sanity drain resistance and giving team members sanity drain resistance a meaningless perk?

How is moving graves (which are necessary for pipspooks) a meaningless perk?

This isn't "redundant and noisy"

This is "I don't like potions & these skills aren't powerful enough and therefore they shouldn't be a thing"

 

Also are you really trying to claim quick picker is anything but filler?

[Steorra]

9 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

And How is doubled Pipspook Rewards a meaningless perk?

This is based on a mechanic which already broken. The base kit of pipspooks need to be fix tbh.

10 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

How is further sanity drain resistance and giving team members sanity drain resistance a meaningless perk?

Koomin has gave a potential explanation to this topic before. "The resistance of sanity is more like a downside since it do bad influence when you want to control your sanity by yourself."

And whatever the explanation Koomin gave, it doesn't matter tbh. The sanity resistance is completely useless once Abby had the Huant command for switching mushrooms.

13 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

How is moving graves (which are necessary for pipspooks) a meaningless perk?

I would not against grave line personally. Since the newest aesthetic is cute for me. I enjoyed it.

14 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

Also are you really trying to claim quick picker is anything but filler?

Yes. For a scenario when you need not to use treeguards, or a scenario when you want to clean a whole forest, this line would be the best choice. I knew the amounts of this line is meh. But there's still no other better choices for the scenario I mentioned above. It helps a lot after you cleaned the whole forest which drops stones and woods a lot in endgame.

[TeaY]

To be honest, I think the enhanced effect of Shadow Abigail should be permanent. It really shouldn't have the prerequisite of killing small animals. This seems to be an attempt to align with Wendy's background information, but the experience is really bad.

[Evelo]

So based on this, you want everything with no drawbacks? That's not how skill trees work. You choose what you want and have to give up a different path or other skills because of your limited points.

[xhyom]

13 minutes ago, TeaY said:

To be honest, I think the enhanced effect of Shadow Abigail should be permanent. It really shouldn't have the prerequisite of killing small animals. This seems to be an attempt to align with Wendy's background information, but the experience is really bad.

Different animals should have different durations, I don't even know if that's not already the case, if it is, which I don't think it is, it should be encouraged at the very least, it's kind of boring conceptually and from a gameplay perspective, having to collect 20 butterflies to get a few minutes of buff, like catching a bird/rabbit is a bit more work but for me makes a lot more sense in this sacrifice thing. In general, an increase in duration would also be nice.

[Cassielu]

2 hours ago, WenericMember said:

They're filler skills. They exist for pretty much every survivor's skill tree. They're fine.

They are not qualified fillter skills, the fillter skills do not dominate the skilltree by taking up close to two-thirds of the positions. And the examples you are talking about have more connection to  character original abilities.

1 hour ago, Evelo said:

So based on this, you want everything with no drawbacks? That's not how skill trees work. You choose what you want and have to give up a different path or other skills because of your limited points.

Shoving something irrelevant to the character is also not how a skilltree works; it should provide something at least relevant to the character.

[Soul7k]

2 hours ago, Steorra said:

If you think most of them are filler, I believe that most Wendy players would be happy to take care of those skills for you to empower Abby.

Abby doesn't require a 9 point investment for any skill

[shuishuihuohuo]

To be honest, I really like the new animation of Wendy's resurrection. I still hope to keep the skill point for resurrection, but change the function and effect of the resurrection.

[adminaaassh]

good

[zzzzzzzzzzz]

Can Wraith Wreath be redesigned? Let it become a prop that can be used in the later stage of the game.（Now it only has some effect in the early stage.）

[DaDa_waw]

4 hours ago, WenericMember said:

This is ridiculous. They're filler skills. They exist for pretty much every survivor's skill tree. They're fine.

Woodie has quick picker & treeguard damage, Willow has lighter radius and burn duration, along with (imo) most bernie skills. Wurt has wetness armour. Wolfgang has crit chance. has wetness armour. Wolfgang has crit chance.

Most of the skills you're trying to have removed are far more useful or interesting.

Even when it comes to filling skills, there are pros and cons.

This may be due to its cost-effectiveness or its adaptability.

Your evaluation of some filling skills has made me start to have doubts about your understanding of the game.

And personally, I don't like almost all impractical filling skills because they leave the skill tree with no choice, and the skill tree that I cannot choose loses the meaning of choosing gameplay.

Woody's tree man damage is not good, but he gives too many values, which leads to a qualitative change in quantity. And it is very suitable for people who cut down trees to have more frequent passivity. More importantly, the third point is the tree spirit statue, which is extremely good.

Fast collection is not good either, but giving too many values can lead to a qualitative change in quantity. Very useful in the early stages and also suitable for his collection of materials positioning.

Like Vello's burning time, when you fully ignite it, the group's burning will be enough to defeat a creature with 100 health points, which will undergo a qualitative change. This is great.

And the lighting radius effect is average, basically not suitable for using skill points. If possible, I also want to delete it. But at the very least, it will definitely come with a lighter for Vello, so I also feel reluctant.

Bernie is indeed the most useful in terms of affinity and rational monsters. +300+600 HP seems more sincere than 'partial boss damage reduction, half reduction in HP recovery', Even Burning Bernie can help Willow clear the Ruins. But Abigail doesn't have this kind of thing, and many people don't want Abigail to help Wendy attack Shadow Creatures.

Shuijia, as long as you jump into the water on the boat, you will have unlimited defense. It is not only compatible with Wurt, but also has generous numerical values.

Wolfgang's work efficiency, have you calculated how much work efficiency this thing will provide? I can tell you that if you cut down a tree that can be knocked down 15 times, it will ultimately make Wolfgang's work efficiency approximately three times that of Wilson. If you mine stone fruits, you can mine up to 40 at once. And it is also very suitable for his characteristic of working hard.

Is Wendy's filling skill really that practical and adaptable?

For example, tombstones and vengeful ghosts, would you think it would be better if I were to write poetry collections instead?

[Catuna_]

honestly this is crazy to me because it's not even scratching out deliberately bad perks, i would genuinely hate if they just removed the pipspook branch or extra yield because looking for mourning glory is by far the most monotonous and boring part of playing this character
blessed sisturn 2 gives wendy 56% insanity aura resistance and other people 25% which is a genuinely good perk
reviving butterflies is a genuine good boost for shadow wendy

anyway my opinions aside i hope you recognize that straight up removing entire branches and especially perks that got new animations (grave revive) is not going to be a thing that happens
 

[DaDa_waw]

9 minutes ago, Catuna_ said:

blessed sisturn 2 gives wendy 56% insanity aura resistance and other people 25% which is a genuinely good perk

It sounds very beautiful. however It sounds far inferior to Willow making a star for everyone, or giving them a Bernie that can be easily patched, or Willow lighting 20 pieces of wood herself and then extinguishing them with a lighter, repeating this action.

[Steorra]

 

18 minutes ago, Catuna_ said:

blessed sisturn 2 gives wendy 56% insanity aura resistance and other people 25% which is a genuinely good perk

I would agree with you a little since this does seems good on first impression.

But I don't know what meaning of this if I consider carefully.

Huant command of Abi gave Wendy free mushroom to control her sanity.

And simply to craft a BERNIE! for every teammates as Willow then you keep the Shadows away.

Willow already did far better than this even without skill tree.

 

 

[Catuna_]

3 minutes ago, DaDa_waw said:

It sounds very beautiful. however It sounds far inferior to Willow making a star for everyone, or giving them a Bernie that can be easily patched, or Willow lighting 20 pieces of wood herself and then extinguishing them with a lighter, repeating this action.

I think this is a rather pointless comparison as it distracts from the fact that the perks that the original post wants to delete are quite powerful in their own right. They improve the flow of the character and give her new tools or remove the monotony of playing her (pipspook branch for example) they're not "noisy" nor are they "helpless"... Besides, Willow cannot access the level of damage Wendy can achieve (430 dps on a beefalo, 340 on foot which is higher/the same as Wolfgang. Yes, she needs to work more for it, but that doesn't invalidate that she out damages Willow by a huge margin). They are different characters and shouldn't be compared. What would help more is to give ideas on how to improve perks, why something doesn't work, or why something is noisy rather than just straight up asking to delete a branch.

[Jakepeng99]

8 hours ago, Cassielu said:

I know "ask for remove" is not a popular idea on the forums because for some reason they are considered disrespectful to developers, but this is obviously the easiest way to fix Wendy skilltree, and I think it is much more respectful than asking for a huge rework. It should be worthy of discussion and consideration anyway.

Basically it includes:

• Pipspook branch
• Grave branch
• Mourning Glory branch
• Vengeful Ghos

Skull emoji.