Two Design Issues with Lunar Sisterhood III

[Yifei_]

Issue 1: The Transformation Conditions for Lunar Abigail are Too Restrictive.
There needs to be a more cost-effective, faster, and convenient way to transform Lunar Abigail.

1. In DST, the intervals between full moon and new moon are relatively long and easy to miss. No one can guarantee that they will only use single-target or AOE damage for the next 10 days.
2. In multiplayer servers, there is no way to ensure what phase the moon will be in when players log on, making the transformation even more unstable.
3. Moon Storm and the Lunar Grimoire can interfere with the moon phases, making the transformation process more complicated.
4. In the Cave, there is no way to switch between Lunar and Normal Abigail.
5. The transformation restrictions in the late game of long-term servers are exactly the same as in the early game, with no "progression."

Suggestions for Improvement:

1. Interacting with the Moon Dial in the Cave should allow players to transform Lunar Abigail back to Normal Abigail. 
2. Using an Infused Moon Shard should enable players to transform Normal Abigail into Lunar Abigail.

My first suggestion simply provides a way to transform back to Normal Abigail, and it aligns with the game's setting where the Moon Dial in the Cave has no water. The infused moon shard mentioned in the second suggestion is a late-game resource and has a limited lifespan. I believe offering more diverse transformation methods in the late game is reasonable.

Issue 2: The AI Design of Lunar Abigail is Flawed, Making Her Less Practical Compared to Shadow Abigail.
When dealing with small enemies (such as Shadow Splumonkeys), Lunar Abigail is completely outmatched by Normal/Shadow Abigail. However, when it comes to fighting bosses, Lunar Abigail and Normal/Shadow Abigail each have their own strengths, with no significant difference in effectiveness.

The test results for bosses are as follows. I have tested each boss myself with both Lunar Abigail and Normal Abigail after [Game Update] - 651259.

Spoiler

Testing Conditions: No Team Spirits/Blessed Sisturn III were used. Potions were used when needed.

Bosses Where Lunar Abigail is Inferior to Shadow/Normal Abigail:

• Bee Queen (Lack of AOE)
• Crab King (Lack of AOE)
• Possessed Varg (Lack of AOE)
• Spider Queen (Lack of AOE)
• Toadstool & Misery Toadstool (Difficulty in pulling Lunar Abigail away from spore bombs)
• Ancient Guardian (1-second stun can prevent timely repositioning of Lunar Abigail)
• Nightmare Werepig (Aggressive attacks cause Lunar Abigail to engage, shifting aggro and disrupting positioning)
• Celestial Champion Phase I & Phase II (Previously discussed)

Bosses Where Lunar Abigail and Shadow/Normal Abigail Have Their Own Advantages:

• Ancient Fuelweaver (Lunar Abigail has better survival, while Shadow/Normal Abigail has AOE for clearing Woven Shadows)

Bosses Where the Difference Between Lunar Abigail and Shadow/Normal Abigail is Minimal:

• Dragonfly
• Frostjaw
• Eye of Terror
• Twins of Terror
• Shadow Rook III
• Antlion

Bosses Where Lunar Abigail is Superior to Shadow/Normal Abigail:

• Klaus (No accidental damage to No-Eyed Deer)
• Celestial Champion Phase III (Maintains distance from CC III)
• Deerclops & Crystal Deerclops (Can dodge their damage)
• Bearger & Armored Bearger (Survival is poor for both Lunar and Shadow without Team Spirits, but Lunar is slightly better)
• Moose/Goose (Longer attack intervals make it easier for Lunar Abigail to avoid aggro)
• Treeguard (Lunar Abigail takes no damage)

Suggestions for how the AI of Lunar Abigail should be modified:

1. Reduce Abigail's attack range and attack desire when she is not in the "riled up" state. However, keep the attack range and attack desire unchanged when she is in the "riled up" state.
2. Remove the 1-second stun effect. This design makes it more difficult for players to adjust Abigail's position, which goes against the design philosophy of "Abigail and Wendy facing the boss together."
3. Remove the hiding mode. If Abigail's health is low, I know how to unsummon her or heal her. I don't need this pointless hiding mode to tell me what to do. Moreover, not only does this hiding mode fail to remove Abigail from the enemies' aggro, but it also causes her to stop attacking, run around aimlessly, and mess up her positioning, making the survival situation even worse.

If you still think that Lunar Abigail is too powerful, please weaken her by reducing her damage output rather than disrupting the collaboration between Wendy and Abigail and teaching players how to play the game.

Previous post:

 

[Yaorin yon]

Thank you for the test. Personally, I really enjoy the ability to switch between different forms and corresponding advantageous forms when facing various situations, which is like "Omnitrix" (I hope someone knows what I'm talking about, haha).

So if the switching of Moon Abigail could become more flexible, it would undoubtedly make the game much more interesting. Just like Omnitrix, at the beginning, Wendy may not be accustomed to this power, so we transform through the full moon and release it. But with the advancement of some game content, we will be able to optimize this process more conveniently, and even switch back and forth in a short period of time. I think this is quite cool and will encourage me to use Moon Camp.

[yuntunhemudu]

Big project! My test results for Dragonfly are consistent with yours.

37 minutes ago, Yifei_ said:

Armored Bearger (Survival is poor for both Lunar and Shadow without Team Spirits, but Lunar is slightly better)

Okay, I don't need to test Armored Bearer anymore. I thought Gestalt Abby would be much better on Armored Bearer, but that's not currently the case.

[Koomin]

45 minutes ago, Yifei_ said:

Issue 1: The Transformation Conditions for Lunar Abigail are Too Restrictive.
There needs to be a more cost-effective, faster, and convenient way to transform Lunar Abigail.

1. In DST, the intervals between full moon and new moon are relatively long and easy to miss. No one can guarantee that they will only use single-target or AOE damage for the next 10 days
   ... 
   ...

Suggestions for Improvement:

1. Interacting with the Moon Dial in the Cave should allow players to transform Lunar Abigail back to Normal Abigail.
   ...
   ...

 

I think that is the point though, and is what makes it interesting and a good design.  Having a skill that produces decision making and gameplay choices is way better than one that doesn't.

Currently with moon gated swaps: " I want to fight a boss soon.  Am I able to deal with not having normal Abigail currently?  Should I rearrange my tasks to put ones with area of effect needs later once I can swap back?  Should I delay until the next full moon?  What precautions can I take while in Gestalt form to deal with the lack of area of effect?  Can I group multiple boss fights together to get the most out of the form swap?  Is there new gear and equipment I should wear while in the swapped form to protect me?"

If it would be changed to swap whenever you want: "Am I about to fight a boss? Yes -> Gestalt.  No- > Normal."

The second option is so much less interesting and boring.  There is literally 0 decision making, and it's just obvious what to do.  Not being able to guarantee you will be in the perfect form for the next few days is the point and the beauty of the design (besides that thematically it is also really good).

[yuntunhemudu]

8 minutes ago, Koomin said:

I think that is the point though, and is what makes it interesting and a good design.  Having a skill that produces decision making and gameplay choices is way better than one that doesn't.

Currently with moon gated swaps: " I want to fight a boss soon.  Am I able to deal with not having normal Abigail currently?  Should I rearrange my tasks to put ones with area of effect needs later once I can swap back?  Should I delay until the next full moon?  What precautions can I take while in Gestalt form to deal with the lack of area of effect?  Can I group multiple boss fights together to get the most out of the form swap?  Is there new gear and equipment I should wear while in the swapped form to protect me?"

If it would be changed to swap whenever you want: "Am I about to fight a boss? Yes -> Gestalt.  No- > Normal."

The second option is so much less interesting and boring.  There is literally 0 decision making, and it's just obvious what to do.  Not being able to guarantee you will be in the perfect form for the next few days is the point and the beauty of the design (besides that thematically it is also really good).

The current decision cycle (Abby's conversion cycle) is set too long. The first scenario you mentioned is somewhat idealized, as too many things can happen between the full moon and the dark moon. For the second scenario, your concerns are also reasonable, as switching freely can be somewhat boring. But I couldn't think of any other surprising ideas.

[Yifei_]

8 minutes ago, Koomin said:

I think that is the point though, and is what makes it interesting and a good design.  Having a skill that produces decision making and gameplay choices is way better than one that doesn't.

Currently with moon gated swaps: " I want to fight a boss soon.  Am I able to deal with not having normal Abigail currently?  Should I rearrange my tasks to put ones with area of effect needs later once I can swap back?  Should I delay until the next full moon?  What precautions can I take while in Gestalt form to deal with the lack of area of effect?  Can I group multiple boss fights together to get the most out of the form swap?  Is there new gear and equipment I should wear while in the swapped form to protect me?"

If it would be changed to swap whenever you want: "Am I about to fight a boss? Yes -> Gestalt.  No- > Normal."

The second option is so much less interesting and boring.  There is literally 0 decision making, and it's just obvious what to do.  Not being able to guarantee you will be in the perfect form for the next few days is the point and the beauty of the design (besides that thematically it is also really good).

I understand that the design philosophy of giving players choices and trade-offs is correct, but the current methods are too limited and the practicality is too poor. In DST, a full lunar cycle lasts 20 days, which is close to three hours—far too long to wait. This issue is even more pronounced in multiplayer servers, where the moon phase is essentially random when you log back in after being offline, making the uncertainty of transformation even more severe. Not to mention the interference from Moon Storms and the Lunar Grimoire. In the Caves, transformation is not possible at all.

Moreover, Lunar Abigail is not always superior to Normal Abigail when facing bosses, which further diminishes the practicality of this ability and exacerbates the problem with the transformation conditions.

My first suggestion simply provides a way to transform back to Normal Abigail, and it aligns with the game's setting where the Moon Dial in the Cave has no water. The infused moon shard mentioned in the second suggestion is a late-game resource and has a limited lifespan. I believe offering more diverse transformation methods in the late game is completely reasonable.

[Yaorin yon]

14 minutes ago, Koomin said:

I think that is the point though, and is what makes it interesting and a good design.  Having a skill that produces decision making and gameplay choices is way better than one that doesn't.

Currently with moon gated swaps: " I want to fight a boss soon.  Am I able to deal with not having normal Abigail currently?  Should I rearrange my tasks to put ones with area of effect needs later once I can swap back?  Should I delay until the next full moon?  What precautions can I take while in Gestalt form to deal with the lack of area of effect?  Can I group multiple boss fights together to get the most out of the form swap?  Is there new gear and equipment I should wear while in the swapped form to protect me?"

If it would be changed to swap whenever you want: "Am I about to fight a boss? Yes -> Gestalt.  No- > Normal."

The second option is so much less interesting and boring.  There is literally 0 decision making, and it's just obvious what to do.  Not being able to guarantee you will be in the perfect form for the next few days is the point and the beauty of the design (besides that thematically it is also really good).

You can give a practical example, such as a certain game, character, or work. To prove that the model you hope for is' interesting '? Like me, besides the Omnitrix I mentioned earlier, or the random switching of stick movements and points in the Black Myth Wukong that I played a while ago, or KLei's own melting furnace jungle, or more multi form settings. They have all proven that 'flexible switching is more interesting', but I haven't come up with any successful cases of 'waiting for 80 minutes before switching' that you expected.

[Koomin]

4 minutes ago, Yifei_ said:

I understand that the design philosophy of giving players choices and trade-offs is correct, but the current methods are too limited and the practicality is too poor. In DST, a full lunar cycle lasts 20 days, which is close to three hours—far too long to wait. This issue is even more pronounced in multiplayer servers, where the moon phase is essentially random when you log back in after being offline, making the uncertainty of transformation even more severe. Not to mention the interference from Moon Storms and the Lunar Grimoire. In the Caves, transformation is not possible at all.

Moreover, Lunar Abigail is not always superior to Normal Abigail when facing bosses, which further diminishes the practicality of this ability and exacerbates the problem with the transformation conditions.

My first suggestion simply provides a way to transform back to Normal Abigail, and it aligns with the game's setting where the Moon Dial in the Cave has no water. The infused moon shard mentioned in the second suggestion is a late-game resource and has a limited lifespan. I believe offering more diverse transformation methods in the late game is completely reasonable.

20 days is pretty long yea - having it be 0 days is also way too short though. 

With the proposed cave option, for example, it would just become the obvious thing to do to transform into Gestalt, fight the bosses, then immediately go to the cave and swap back.  Again 0 decisions and not interesting. 

If there is a way to make it somewhere more in the middle of 20 and 0 days that might be reasonable, it's just when it becomes able to immediately swap that it loses interest.

[Yifei_]

2 minutes ago, Koomin said:

With the proposed cave option, for example, it would just become the obvious thing to do to transform into Gestalt, fight the bosses, then immediately go to the cave and swap back.  Again 0 decisions and not interesting. 

My proposal for transformation in the Cave aims to address two issues: 1) The transformation conditions are too restrictive; 2) It is impossible to transform forms in the Cave at all.

There is still a part of decision-making involved here. Once you transform into Normal in the Cave, you cannot transform back to Lunar. Players need to think carefully before transforming whether they still need to use the Lunar form. I believe this remains interesting and thought-provoking.

[Koomin]

6 minutes ago, Yaorin yon said:

You can give a practical example, such as a certain game, character, or work. To prove that the model you hope for is' interesting '? Like me, besides the Omnitrix I mentioned earlier, or the random switching of stick movements and points in the Black Myth Wukong that I played a while ago, or KLei's own melting furnace jungle, or more multi form settings. They have all proven that 'flexible switching is more interesting', but I haven't come up with any successful cases of 'waiting for 80 minutes before switching' that you expected.

I did give a lot of examples from this game (don't starve), which should be the most important. 

I havent played a lot of form swapping games to be honest, and haven't really even heard of any of the ones you mentioned, so those examples don't mean anything to me unfortunately.

My best answer though would be in games like Baldur's Gate, or Elden Ring, or Horizon Zero Dawn, or whatever else, I usually actually have way more fun with the situations where my character is not optimally set up for a situation that appears.  The situations or enemies where I am optimally set up are not interesting and I just do my normal actions.  The ones where I am not well set up are the ones where I have to think and problem solve and figure out new fun strategies.  It is really good when that is present in games.

5 minutes ago, Yifei_ said:

My proposal for transformation in the Cave aims to address two issues: 1) The transformation conditions are too restrictive; 2) It is impossible to transform forms in the Cave at all.

There is still a part of decision-making involved here. Once you transform into Normal in the Cave, you cannot transform back to Lunar. Players need to think carefully before transforming whether they still need to use the Lunar form. I believe this remains interesting and thought-provoking.

Ok unfortunately I don't really agree here then, but happy to leave it at that.  And if other proposals come up that address my concerns I'll definitely consider them, since your point about 20 days being a long time is valid at least.

[Yaorin yon]

23 minutes ago, Koomin said:

I did give a lot of examples from this game (don't starve), which should be the most important. 

I havent played a lot of form swapping games to be honest, and haven't really even heard of any of the ones you mentioned, so those examples don't mean anything to me unfortunately.

My best answer though would be in games like Baldur's Gate, or Elden Ring, or Horizon Zero Dawn, or whatever else, I usually actually have way more fun with the situations where my character is not optimally set up for a situation that appears.  The situations or enemies where I am optimally set up are not interesting and I just do my normal actions.  The ones where I am not well set up are the ones where I have to think and problem solve and figure out new fun strategies.  It is really good when that is present in games.

Ok unfortunately I don't really agree here then, but happy to leave it at that.  And if other proposals come up that address my concerns I'll definitely consider them, since your point about 20 days being a long time is valid at least.

The reason why I hope for examples outside of DST is because I think this design is terrible in DST. The character with the most diverse forms in DST is Woodie, who only needs to prepare a special statue to transform into the corresponding form. I don't deny that this design has some OP, but if the process were to be gradual and eventually reach its current state, I would think it would be very cool because I can quickly use the statue that should be used in any unexpected situation. Plans can never keep up with changes, and strict restrictions and inefficient features often do not result in playability, but rather allow players to choose the "optimal solution" among themselves. The ability of Moon Abigail destined her to only occasionally have her own advantages, and at such times, strong restrictions would make players only lean towards Shadow Abigail, which is a negative restriction rather than a decision encouragement.

[Yifei_]

Suggestions for how the AI of Lunar Abigail should be modified have been updated in the main post.

1. Reduce Abigail's attack range and attack desire when she is not in the "riled up" state. However, keep the attack range and attack desire unchanged when she is in the "riled up" state.
2. Remove the 1-second stun effect. This design makes it more difficult for players to adjust Abigail's position, which goes against the design philosophy of "Abigail and Wendy facing the boss together."
3. Remove the hiding mode. If Abigail's health is low, I know how to unsummon her or heal her. I don't need this pointless hiding mode to tell me what to do. Moreover, not only does this hiding mode fail to remove Abigail from the enemies' aggro, but it also causes her to stop attacking, run around aimlessly, and mess up her positioning, making the survival situation even worse.

If you still think that Lunar Abigail is too powerful, please weaken her by reducing her damage output rather than disrupting the collaboration between Wendy and Abigail and teaching players how to play the game.

[DVGMedia]

6 hours ago, Koomin said:

The second option is so much less interesting and boring.  There is literally 0 decision making, and it's just obvious what to do.  Not being able to guarantee you will be in the perfect form for the next few days is the point and the beauty of the design (besides that thematically it is also really good).

It doesn't matter if its boring.
Its useful.
And it would actually make gestalt abby better

[Yifei_]

@Jason

I noticed that even a dedicated animation effect was added for the 1-second stun in the last update. However, I hope this does not become a reason to keep this poor design unchanged. The art changes in the last update were impressive, but unfortunately, art optimization on flawed game design and mechanics is like "going in the opposite direction."

Please take the design issues of Lunar Abigail seriously (not just the 1-second stun) and avoid using irresponsible responses like "Wendy is too strong" or "You can turn it off" to cover up the real problems. I'm not trying to force anyone to change the game design entirely according to my ideas, but I do hope you won't completely disregard my suggestions just because I'm a Chinese player.

Thank you very much to everyone who is willing to read my post.

我注意到在上一次更新中甚至为1s发呆添加了专属的动画效果，但我不希望这个成为不更改这个糟糕设计的理由。上一次更新的美术改动都很出色，但很遗憾，在错误的游戏设计与机制上的美术优化是“南辕北辙”。

请你重视月阿比的设计问题（不仅仅局限于1s发呆），并且不要以“温蒂太强啦”或者“你可以关掉”这种不负责任的回应来掩盖问题所在。我并不是强迫你需要完全按照我的思路去更改游戏设计，但请你不要因为我是中国玩家就完全忽略我的建议。

非常感谢所有愿意阅读我的帖子的人。

[DVGMedia]

17 minutes ago, Yifei_ said:

Reduce Abigail's attack range and attack desire when she is not in the "riled up" state. However, keep the attack range and attack desire unchanged when she is in the "riled up" state.

IM really trying to figure out the best way to make this work better. Cause doing a small test before how gabby worked in fights.
Gabby has that 15 unit tether.
But that is a teather to wendy. What if the teather was instead tied to the enemy and wendys proximity to that enemy? how much proximity  depends on the state abigail is in. Defense state being smaller While riled up being bigger.

This teather is really whats messing up Gabby And really need to figure out the best way to make it work.

[Grove]

The 1-stun was said by Jason to be something to make Gestalt Abby weak against hordes.. but she already is???

Apparently it wouldn't be a problem if the boss is aggroed on you, but that's not realistic at all. Her soloing bosses was already fixed by removing the immunity 

[DVGMedia]

like what if gabby doesn't have this pause if she is needing to follow wendy?
Follow wendy takes all priority usually

And if abby is in defense mode she normally wouldn't be able to attack This is why positioning is so important.
 

 

[Steorra]

7 hours ago, Yaorin yon said:

Thank you for the test. Personally, I really enjoy the ability to switch between different forms and corresponding advantageous forms when facing various situations, which is like "Omnitrix" (I hope someone knows what I'm talking about, haha).

So if the switching of Moon Abigail could become more flexible, it would undoubtedly make the game much more interesting. Just like Omnitrix, at the beginning, Wendy may not be accustomed to this power, so we transform through the full moon and release it. But with the advancement of some game content, we will be able to optimize this process more conveniently, and even switch back and forth in a short period of time. I think this is quite cool and will encourage me to use Moon Camp.

They simply decide to make Shadow Abi become a Normal Abi plus and this ruins the enjoyment of forms switching completely.

[Yifei_]

1 hour ago, Steorra said:

They simply decide to make Shadow Abi become a Normal Abi plus and this ruins the enjoyment of forms switching completely.

I think the design philosophy of Shadow Abigail is a further enhancement of the original gameplay, while the design philosophy of Lunar Abigail is to abandon strengths and compensate for weaknesses.

Shadow Abigail's current design has achieved its purpose to some extent, but the "murder" design is hard to like, and the specific values are quite crazy.

Lunar Abigail has only achieved the goal of "abandoning strengths." She has lost the ability to clear minions, and there is no clear advantage for Lunar Abigail in boss battles at all. Another weakness of Wendy is that shadow creatures are not easy to deal with, and this has not been improved (although I think it might not be appropriate to address this by "Lunar Abigail can fight shadow creatures").

我觉得暗影阿比的设计理念是对原先的玩法的进一步加强，而月亮阿比的设计理念则是放弃长处，弥补短处。

暗影阿比目前的设计某种程度上达到了目的，但是“谋杀”这个设计很愚蠢，而且具体数值也相当逆天。

月亮阿比只达到了“放弃长处”这个目的。清理小怪的能力没了，在打boss方面并不见得月亮有啥优势。温蒂的另一个短处是影怪并不好对付，这个技能也没有任何改进（不过我感觉通过“月阿比可以打影怪”来实现这一点可能有些不合适）。

[yuntunhemudu]

10 hours ago, Yifei_ said:

I think the design philosophy of Shadow Abigail is a further enhancement of the original gameplay, while the design philosophy of Lunar Abigail is to abandon strengths and compensate for weaknesses.

Shadow Abigail's current design has achieved its purpose to some extent, but the "murder" design is hard to like, and the specific values are quite crazy.

Lunar Abigail has only achieved the goal of "abandoning strengths." She has lost the ability to clear minions, and there is no clear advantage for Lunar Abigail in boss battles at all. Another weakness of Wendy is that shadow creatures are not easy to deal with, and this has not been improved (although I think it might not be appropriate to address this by "Lunar Abigail can fight shadow creatures").

我觉得暗影阿比的设计理念是对原先的玩法的进一步加强，而月亮阿比的设计理念则是放弃长处，弥补短处。

暗影阿比目前的设计某种程度上达到了目的，但是“谋杀”这个设计很愚蠢，而且具体数值也相当逆天。

月亮阿比只达到了“放弃长处”这个目的。清理小怪的能力没了，在打boss方面并不见得月亮有啥优势。温蒂的另一个短处是影怪并不好对付，这个技能也没有任何改进（不过我感觉通过“月阿比可以打影怪”来实现这一点可能有些不合适）。

Yes, you mentioned the real problem with Gestalt Abby now: Giving up on strengths but not making up for any other weaknesses. I thought Gestalt Abby would at least make up for the problem that normal Abby couldn't handle Armored Bearer, but it didn't The '1-second stun' is now a double-edged sword, successfully avoiding players from commanding Gestalt Abby to kill Bosses alone like a Pok é mon trainer, but also preventing Gestalt Abby from gaining an advantage in any direction.

Like chicken ribs, they are tasteless to eat and a pity to discard. 如同鸡肋，食之无味，弃之可惜。

7 minutes ago, yuntunhemudu said:

Yes, you mentioned the real problem with Gestalt Abby now: Giving up on strengths but not making up for any other weaknesses. I thought Gestalt Abby would at least make up for the problem that normal Abby couldn't handle Armored Bearer, but it didn't The '1-second stun' is now a double-edged sword, successfully avoiding players from commanding Gestalt Abby to kill Bosses alone like a Pok é mon trainer, but also preventing Gestalt Abby from gaining an advantage in any direction.

Like chicken ribs, they are tasteless to eat and a pity to discard. 如同鸡肋，食之无味，弃之可惜。

But I can't come up with any better solution than '1-second stun'. I am curious about Klei's current view on Gestalt Abby, what functions they want Gestalt Abby to achieve, and whether Gestalt Abby has achieved their goals.

[Yifei_]

9 hours ago, yuntunhemudu said:

Giving up on strengths but not making up for any other weaknesses. I thought Gestalt Abby would at least make up for the problem that normal Abby couldn't handle Armored Bearer, but it didn't The '1-second stun' is now a double-edged sword, successfully avoiding players from commanding Gestalt Abby to kill Bosses alone like a Pok é mon trainer, but also preventing Gestalt Abby from gaining an advantage in any direction.

I just noticed that the "attack at" feature in Team Spirits has removed the AOE of Lunar Abigail. Klei has brilliantly accomplished the goal of "abandoning strengths," while "compensating for weaknesses" has been quite poor.

[Yifei_]

Another minor suggestion is that Lunar Affinity could provide a new recipe for Abigail's Flower, such as using Moon Tree Blossoms or other moon-related items to replace Nightmare Fuel in the original recipe.

[DaDa_waw]

9 hours ago, Yifei_ said:

Another minor suggestion is that Lunar Affinity could provide a new recipe for Abigail's Flower, such as using Moon Tree Blossoms or other moon-related items to replace Nightmare Fuel in the original recipe.

If this formula can be unlocked when using the moon phase disk to change the moon Abigail, I think it would be a more perfect solution than the cave moon phase disk.

[mima_]

On 1/25/2025 at 2:18 PM, Yifei_ said:

• Interacting with the Moon Dial in the Cave should allow players to transform Lunar Abigail back to Normal Abigail. 
• Using an Infused Moon Shard should enable players to transform Normal Abigail into Lunar Abigail.

maybe instead of infused shard wendy can make bathbomb and place them into lunar pond . so abigail can haunt activated pond to transform.
it will make that one item have more uses, and wendy can transform abigail as early as they want.

[Soul7k]

15 minutes ago, mima_ said:

maybe instead of infused shard wendy can make bathbomb and place them into lunar pond . so abigail can haunt activated pond to transform.
it will make that one item have more uses, and wendy can transform abigail as early as they want.

this seems fine