practicality vs Thematics

[Debruh]

2 minutes ago, Anis5240 said:

idek bout this whole visual thing be thematic or not, but I do know moon magic doesn't always do things right (see how they change dead mobs into berserk zombies). if this is Alter's magic to trick Wendy to join his side (we don't talk about stupid ass wagstaff) then it's all the more reason where Alter ain't as trustworthy as it made to be.

(PLEASE MAKE ALTER BE VILLAINOUS KLEI)

Eh, just because magic of a side is used doesn't mean it's necessarily the side.

Maxwell used the shadows to perform goddamn stage magic and they obviously didn't like that, or Wanda's time shenanigans. So it's prob something like this for alter.

Abby does talk to Wendy, so Wendy would have known if it was a trick.

[Siren11]

I have been at work so I haven’t been able to test anything, but my concern would be running into something like frog rain on the way to a boss fight. If I had Lune Blossoms in the Sisturn, would Abigail take full damage from the frogs but still only receive half the healing from potions? I fight a lot of bosses in spring on my main multiplayer world (we recently started Moonstorms and we have a Wigfrid) and I have terrible luck, so this is a legitimate concern.

I agree that it would also help if the player tag was more consistent. Or if the wiki was more accurate, at the very least.

The lore of Blessed Sisturn III is okay though, and I love the new idle animation. It’s worth getting just for that. It’s a shame you might not be able to use it much unless you want to nerf yourself.

[ethanol54006]

2 hours ago, DVGMedia said:

Abby is just worse now agaisnt bosses that don't have player tag to begin with?
It should just be a general buff instead of it being so selective.
With this selectivity its making it a much worse perk to choose

And how is the player to know that a boss doesn't get affected by player tag?
They are expecting this to work generally for all bosses yet it doesn't
This is why this is a bad perk

 

I Defenitely agree that the inconsistency between which bosses abby having the player tag will affect, i also think that a perk being selective makes it a bad perk. I find that overall, perk trees with more selectivity provide a more unique experience, rather than just feeling like nothing more than a character buff. While this certain skill is poorly implemented, to argue against skills that arent just a straight buff means that we will have less unique and enriching tech tree's.

You also mentioned earlier about it how its bad becuase they tied the animation to it. (sry, idk how to quote multiple times) But unless im missing something, its just an animation, no? I see no reason anyone would purposefully run a nerf purely for an animation, as the animation changes no gameplay mechanics. plus if one really does like the animation, im sure it will be quite easily modded in

[DVGMedia]

34 minutes ago, ethanol54006 said:

I Defenitely agree that the inconsistency between which bosses abby having the player tag will affect, i also think that a perk being selective makes it a bad perk. I find that overall, perk trees with more selectivity provide a more unique experience, rather than just feeling like nothing more than a character buff. While this certain skill is poorly implemented, to argue against skills that arent just a straight buff means that we will have less unique and enriching tech tree's.

You also mentioned earlier about it how its bad becuase they tied the animation to it. (sry, idk how to quote multiple times) But unless im missing something, its just an animation, no? I see no reason anyone would purposefully run a nerf purely for an animation, as the animation changes no gameplay mechanics. plus if one really does like the animation, im sure it will be quite easily modded in

the perks downside is not only does it not work on all things boss releated. Every single skill trees selective nature is about the limitation of points you have for a tree. You normally cant get everything on a tree so the player has to choose how to build their tree to suit their needs.
And there are things locked into the the affinities. Thats how all of the trees work.

Never has there been a downside built directly into a perk other than potential trade off perks Like wolfgangs coaching. wigfrids song cooldown and beefalo taming.
But then again those are easily mitigated and don't conflict with their core.
Thats one of the main reasons why this is bad in addition to it being a end of branch perk which is supposed to be the strongest of that branch since you need to spend multiple points to get it.

The other thing about the animation being locked to it is more cosmetic. And I know for sure people will be affected by a nerfed abby just for the animation because one They cant use mods (console) Or 2 they don't wish to use mods.
 

[Evelo]

It feels less troublesome now which makes me satisfied. There are plenty of work arounds as you need only replace 1 lune blossom with a dark petal or regular petal and she is no longer affected by that healing reduction. If you know you are going to be fighting X boss, slap some lune blossoms in. If you know you are fighting Y boss, take them out. Crazy.

[DVGMedia]

1 minute ago, Evelo said:

It feels less troublesome now which makes me satisfied. There are plenty of work arounds as you need only replace 1 lune blossom with a dark petal or regular petal and she is no longer affected by that healing reduction. If you know you are going to be fighting X boss, slap some lune blossoms in. If you know you are fighting Y boss, take them out. Crazy.

but that should not be the way it works.
if you wanted to do something like that it would be better off as like an affinity thing blossoms give lunar bonus while dark gives shadow so that way its atleast more consistant.
Instead of it being this haphazard setup.

Going back to the sisturn to change petals is not a viable option since it just adds tedium. And thats not what should be added into the game. 

[Evelo]

2 minutes ago, DVGMedia said:

Going back to the sisturn to change petals is not a viable option since it just adds tedium. And thats not what should be added into the game. 

Planning is adding tedium? You prepare to fight X and Y boss, this is just another step in the plan. That isn't adding tedium it is a strategic step in the process. Compared to Gestalt Abigail's restrictions, simply removing one petal is not even remotely tedious.

With great power comes great responsibility. Be responsible.

[DVGMedia]

4 minutes ago, Evelo said:

Planning is adding tedium? You prepare to fight X and Y boss, this is just another step in the plan. That isn't adding tedium it is a strategic step in the process. Compared to Gestalt Abigail's restrictions, simply removing one petal is not even remotely tedious.

With great power comes great responsibility. Be responsible.

you are telling this about a video game and about powers that are supposed to make life easier for the player who uses them not harder

it would be like saying for winona oh you can have infinate energy with elighten shard! But you can only use 1 device with it Its just like why

 

[Evelo]

2 minutes ago, DVGMedia said:

you are telling this about a video game and about powers that are supposed to make life easier for the player who uses them not harder

It is easier because now she takes half damage from certain giants. You go back to base to restock your food, your weapons, your armor. This is just one extra small step in that. It does not seem like that big of a deal! How is that harder?!

 

2 minutes ago, DVGMedia said:

it would be like saying for winona oh you can have infinate energy with elighten shard! But you can only use 1 device with it Its just like why

If you use an enlightened shard, if you draw too much power too quickly it goes on a brief cooldown before activating again, stopping all surrounding buildings from working. That's in the game! Is that little feature make her "harder"? I certainly don't think so. Just be responsible with your power usage.

[congrongfuguo]

I don't like this kind of modification either. It's like repeatedly changing your pencil drawing with an eraser, so how can we explain why the moon tree flower weaken the restoration effect

 

[Koomin]

33 minutes ago, congrongfuguo said:

I don't like this kind of modification either. It's like repeatedly changing your pencil drawing with an eraser, so how can we explain why the moon tree flower weaken the restoration effect

 

"Abigail has gained the player tag. She is becoming closer to being human.  Ghost healing elixirs work worse on her now since she is becoming more human and less ghost"

Am I missing something?

[DVGMedia]

7 hours ago, Evelo said:

It is easier because now she takes half damage from certain giants. You go back to base to restock your food, your weapons, your armor. This is just one extra small step in that. It does not seem like that big of a deal! How is that harder?!

 

If you use an enlightened shard, if you draw too much power too quickly it goes on a brief cooldown before activating again, stopping all surrounding buildings from working. That's in the game! Is that little feature make her "harder"? I certainly don't think so. Just be responsible with your power usage.

well from the power of the shard of its own.  it makes every other fuel have the same value too so i mean you can still get a full generators worth of shots with 1 shard. That being 20 planar shots And it regenerates so quickly.

IM really fighting for the people that will nerf themselves wholly for a cosmetic.And thats why this is unfortunate.

I know of people that will forget to remove their sisturn petals and be affected by it.
And the sad part is that the uniqunes of it goes away The thematic nature of the skill goes away. All because of gameplay uses.

If a player wants to have abby closer to them and its through this skill it should be able to do something that the player can set and forget.
Instead of having to constantly manage.

[Debruh]

22 minutes ago, DVGMedia said:

well from the power of the shard of its own.  it makes every other fuel have the same value too so i mean you can still get a full generators worth of shots with 1 shard. That being 20 planar shots And it regenerates so quickly.

IM really fighting for the people that will nerf themselves wholly for a cosmetic.And thats why this is unfortunate.

I know of people that will forget to remove their sisturn petals and be affected by it.
And the sad part is that the uniqunes of it goes away The thematic nature of the skill goes away. All because of gameplay uses.

If a player wants to have abby closer to them and its through this skill it should be able to do something that the player can set and forget.
Instead of having to constantly manage.

Will they have to constantly manage it though? Because Abby can take care of normal enemies without any healing elixirs. And if she's unsummoned then it works perfectly fine. So at worst, you unsummon Abby for 30 seconds while she's healing via cure-all.

It's probably only gonna need to be changed against bee queen or something

[Anis5240]

idek bout y'all but clearly shadow Abigail should be the one to get that visual Easter egg thingy. Why? because Wendy herself said when using the Enlightened Crown she heard Abby lesser and lesser. Besides, to craft a new Abby's flower you need a nightmare fuel.

[DaDa_waw]

Everyone is arguing over Wendy's core content, which is the 50% non full boss damage reduction in Abigail. Wendy's most important recovery ability needs to be weakened by half. For Woodie next door, an AOE with 90% full attribute damage reduction, 15 point surface defense, 136+80 point surface damage correction for the third attack, a group AOE skill without cooldown, and the ability to attack Shadow creatures are only 1/5 of his functions, requiring only 3 monster meat and 2 grass, which makes people feel dizzy.

[Evelo]

4 hours ago, DVGMedia said:

I know of people that will forget to remove their sisturn petals and be affected by it.
And the sad part is that the uniqunes of it goes away The thematic nature of the skill goes away. All because of gameplay uses.

Gonna be that guy but seriously... "Uncompromising Survival" Maybe work with the systems in place and improve.

3 hours ago, Anis5240 said:

idek bout y'all but clearly shadow Abigail should be the one to get that visual Easter egg thingy. Why? because Wendy herself said when using the Enlightened Crown she heard Abby lesser and lesser. Besides, to craft a new Abby's flower you need a nightmare fuel.

I mentioned this in the patch update thread, someone posted a decent theory. I'd like for Klei to actually states why this is the case though so us lore nerds can add it to our collection.

[Steorra]

3 hours ago, Anis5240 said:

idek bout y'all but clearly shadow Abigail should be the one to get that visual Easter egg thingy. Why? because Wendy herself said when using the Enlightened Crown she heard Abby lesser and lesser. Besides, to craft a new Abby's flower you need a nightmare fuel.

Yes this is extremely illogical and suspicious for me. I do hope Klei would give an explanation for this paradox 

[Chewabacca]

3 hours ago, Anis5240 said:

idek bout y'all but clearly shadow Abigail should be the one to get that visual Easter egg thingy. Why? because Wendy herself said when using the Enlightened Crown she heard Abby lesser and lesser. Besides, to craft a new Abby's flower you need a nightmare fuel.

I think the idea is that the moon brings people closer to "reality", which is somehow distinct from shadow magic. So when it's acting on Wendy (but not on Abigail), it puts her at a distance from Abigail. But when it's acting on Abigail herself, it's still able to bring her closer to "reality". I know Klei is probably swamped right now, but it'd be cool if somewhere down the line they added a new quote for when Wendy has the Celestial Crown on and the cisturn has lune tree blossoms in it.