Pipspook quest 1 2 and 3 should just be removed and changed into another thing.

[Swiyss]

These skills are completely useless in my view, you walk literally a screen less to get them, which save 3 seconds of walking.

Then you have 2 skills (number 2 and 3) that could all be condensed into one and would also pass as kinda useless still. Just finding another pispspook would already grant the needed morning glory for a bunch of fights since we only use 1 to 3 per elixir. Unless I'm using morning glory every day for night vision, it is a useless skill.

I believe these 3 skills need to be condensed into 1 or 2 and then open the possibility to add 2 other skills that allows the player to place butterfly wings in the Casket, and move some skills up.

We also need to change pipspooks in my opinion. A different way to acquire mourning glory through a different minigame inside pipspook's quest. Maybe add another 1 or 2 minigames so it is not the stale same "mothers old tea cup". Seems lazy.

"Extra Wield" skill should also be condensed into the pipspook ones. It is rather just cutting time, which adds basically nothing new, creative and exciting to lvl up as Wendy. It's the same as adding "lvl 1, 2 and 3" for a Wanda skill that makes her alarming clock last a bit longer, then much longer, then "Wanda clock cooldown is reduced by half". It just optimize random things that are relevant to people who wanna cut time. If this was a great addition to the game, action queue and crockpot repeater would be in-game features...

[Koomin]

These skills are already some of the most powerful in the skill tree - condensing them all down so you can get them all for a single point would be way too much. 

If you are proposing totally deleting them and replacing them with something to change up the quest and make it more interesting, that would make more sense.

The "this character does this a bit faster", followed by "this character does this a lot faster" skills are also some of the most common skills in skill trees.  Why are we suddenly against them now?  Cutting time is a huge part of the game, it is like 50% a game about time management.

[Swiyss]

25 minutes ago, Koomin said:

These skills are already some of the most powerful in the skill tree - condensing them all down so you can get them all for a single point would be way too much. 

If you are proposing totally deleting them and replacing them with something to change up the quest and make it more interesting, that would make more sense.

The "this character does this a bit faster", followed by "this character does this a lot faster" skills are also some of the most common skills in skill trees.  Why are we suddenly against them now?  Cutting time is a huge part of the game, it is like 50% a game about time management.

literally 2 seconds of walking, and then -0.33 times that you have to farm for pipspook is a very useless skill in my opinion. Since the start I see no reason to use this and I haven't use it since.

[Koomin]

Just now, Swiyss said:

literally 2 seconds of walking, and then -0.33 times that you have to farm for pipspook is a very useless skill in my opinion. Since the start I see no reason to use this and I haven't use it since.

A lot of people have been saying the pipspook quests take way too long and wanted improvement there, so these skills are meant for them.  If you thought they didn't take too long before the skill tree then I can see why you wouldn't like them.  There's like 18 posts on the forum in which people talk about how much time they take up and how long they are, so thinking they take 2 seconds might be a bit out of family.

They are still really quite powerful, and combining them all into one skill rather than deleting them would be excessive. 

Just reread your initial post - if your proposal is just to flat out delete the skills and replace them, I don't actually disagree, and might be misunderstanding your request.

[Debruh]

Resource collection skills are in pretty much every skill tree.

They're also pretty useful. Allow you to gather a lot of mourning glory at the start of the game, in the mosiac with no need to go to a forest. And from Ancient Guardian's graveyard.

Just finding another pipspook isn't an option in these scenarios. Nor is it one in a lot of situations.

One pipspook with all three gives like 18 mourning glory. Equal to 3 pipspooks without it. Which saves a lot of time, as it avoids locating two other graves, graves that are away from the grave you just helped because pipspooks don't spawn near each other. As well as locating the toys, which can spawn in inconvenient places. The first skill helps massively in making toys easier to get, and the other two make it so you don't even have to complete the quest.

'Saving two seconds' is not true at all.

Extra yield isn't even useful for saving mourning glory, it's useful for saving whatever other resource the elixir needs. Which helps a lot.

Cursed vexation is available since werepig, and this one skill makes it so that his 4 pure horror, usually give 6-7 elixirs, with a rare possibility of 12.

Helps a lot with the lunar one in the early days of the rift opening.

Helps make the shield elixirs less taxing. They're not that useful, but when this skill usually gives you an extra one it encourages using it in more situations. It you have one extra, why not use it?

Revenant restorative's, vigor mortis', and nightshade's production is also boosted a lot, especially in situations where you might not have a ton of ingredients for them. Bee resources aren't really available in the caves for example.

[Swiyss]

1 hour ago, Koomin said:

A lot of people have been saying the pipspook quests take way too long and wanted improvement there, so these skills are meant for them.  If you thought they didn't take too long before the skill tree then I can see why you wouldn't like them.  There's like 18 posts on the forum in which people talk about how much time they take up and how long they are, so thinking they take 2 seconds might be a bit out of family.

They are still really quite powerful, and combining them all into one skill rather than deleting them would be excessive. 

Just reread your initial post - if your proposal is just to flat out delete the skills and replace them, I don't actually disagree, and might be misunderstanding your request.

 

1 hour ago, Debruh said:

Resource collection skills are in pretty much every skill tree.

They're also pretty useful. Allow you to gather a lot of mourning glory at the start of the game, in the mosiac with no need to go to a forest. And from Ancient Guardian's graveyard.

Just finding another pipspook isn't an option in these scenarios. Nor is it one in a lot of situations.

One pipspook with all three gives like 18 mourning glory. Equal to 3 pipspooks without it. Which saves a lot of time, as it avoids locating two other graves, graves that are away from the grave you just helped because pipspooks don't spawn near each other. As well as locating the toys, which can spawn in inconvenient places. The first skill helps massively in making toys easier to get, and the other two make it so you don't even have to complete the quest.

'Saving two seconds' is not true at all.

Extra yield isn't even useful for saving mourning glory, it's useful for saving whatever other resource the elixir needs. Which helps a lot.

Cursed vexation is available since werepig, and this one skill makes it so that his 4 pure horror, usually give 6-7 elixirs, with a rare possibility of 12.

Helps a lot with the lunar one in the early days of the rift opening.

Helps make the shield elixirs less taxing. They're not that useful, but when this skill usually gives you an extra one it encourages using it in more situations. It you have one extra, why not use it?

Revenant restorative's, vigor mortis', and nightshade's production is also boosted a lot, especially in situations where you might not have a ton of ingredients for them. Bee resources aren't really available in the caves for example.

Okay, say I wanna mass craft a bunch of potions and use the Wraith's Wreath. It took me 5 days for 56 mourning glory. I made enough potions to sustain 10 days of night vision and killed 4 bosses, using a spectre cure all 2 times and I still have 3 potions left. If I had that skill, not only I would have to sacrifice the wreath probably, but it would also made me take maybe 4 days instead of 5. There's no way I'm ever picking that up. I tried even, and it made 0 sense to me atleast, I'm not in a rush for mourning glory. I believe YES these skills is too underwhelming, and it should be either pushed back to add better skills. 

If klei has some skill ideas in mind, I wouldn't mind them merging these 3 into one and adding these ideas into the game, that's what I'm trying to say.

[Koomin]

5 minutes ago, Swiyss said:

 

Okay, say I wanna mass craft a bunch of potions and use the Wraith's Wreath. It took me 5 days for 56 mourning glory. I made enough potions to sustain 10 days of night vision and killed 4 bosses, using a spectre cure all 2 times and I still have 3 potions left. If I had that skill, not only I would have to sacrifice the wreath probably, but it would also made me take maybe 4 days instead of 5. There's no way I'm ever picking that up. I tried even, and it made 0 sense to me atleast, I'm not in a rush for mourning glory. I believe YES these skills is too underwhelming, and it should be either pushed back to add better skills. 

If klei has some skill ideas in mind, I wouldn't mind them merging these 3 into one and adding these ideas into the game, that's what I'm trying to say.

Have you really tried the same experiment to see how fast you get them with the skills?  Saying it would take 4 days instead of 5 is a bit odd.  With the new skills you could get 56 in like half a day (which is why I'm saying they are so strong). 

I do agree that I'd support the skills being replaced entirely with something more interesting.  They are currently both super strong and super boring.  I wouldn't support them being all combined into one skill given how powerful they are.

[HowlVoid]

MORE condensed skills...? Skills are meant to ramp up. The stronger part of that skill is how many mourning glories you get at the end (20ish?) The filler skills in-between are perfectly normal way to balance investment into that skill line. This is a recurring trend since the beginning of the skill trees. Wendy can't keep getting her skills condensed.

[Swiyss]

1 minute ago, Koomin said:

Have you really tried the same experiment to see how fast you get them with the skills?  Saying it would take 4 days instead of 5 is a bit odd.  With the new skills you could get 56 in like half a day (which is why I'm saying they are so strong). 

I do agree that I'd support the skills being replaced entirely with something more interesting.  They are currently both super strong and super boring.  I wouldn't support them being all combined into one skill given how powerful they are.

I don't believe they're strong because it's a matter of perspective, a matter of time. In the example that I gave, I spent the whole 5 days in a single forest as I was clearing spiders and pigs. If I was to only farm mourning glory, it would definitely grant me way more than necessary for a long time. But that's not the point, the point is that the increase is not reasonable for leveling up as I tested it myself. In my world, I'm just going to spend my time farming mourning glory anyways. Seeing that it gives a bit more and *that's it* just defeats the purpose of a skill tree. It's the same as adding a skill like "Willow will now drop 2 embers per burning creature killed" instead of being "willow skills ember cost is reduced" as a PATCH, not a SKILL. That's why I think it's lazy.

If they were 1 skill but a little weaker, and then opened up to 2 more skills , then we agree on this.

I was thinking about a skill that adds the damage redirection back from abi to wendy, instead of from wendy to abi. And another skill to cheap up the potion cost from 3 to 1. This would be indirectly better than giving more mourning glory since I think that using them for wreath's are way better than using them to mass craft these potions. If my abi is shadow or lunar, both would not need too many potions to constantly manage, and abi can only have 1 potion anyways.

The problem is that some cost 3 glorys, so I'm basically mass producing these potions only to have almost none in my inv to keep crafting the Wreath. The side being changed would fix this issue.

[Dingle]

Pipspook 1 through 3 increases the rate of mourning glory gain by around 600%, when you factor in both the shorter time per full quest and the much greater reward.

Just so you know.

[Swiyss]

1 hour ago, Swiyss said:

I was thinking about a skill that adds the damage redirection back from abi to wendy, instead of from wendy to abi.

I know this is not intended for her as a design, since they made the lune tree blossom basically treat her as a player. So I might add that maybe the Wraith's Wreath should be buffed AND be the last skill of a segment, requiring 2 skills before it can be leveled up. Then make the pispook skills into only 2, and add another skill to the Potions side to reduce the amount of mourning glory used in potions and remove the Casket skill from there. This would imply the pipspook quest 1 and 2 would be changed very so slightly. Then the Mourning glory III (revive) would be sided with the Vengeaful Ghost. This would open up space for a skill to allow Butterfly Wings to be placed in the casket to reduce spoilage time by a substantial amount AFTER leveling up the casket. This would be used by people using the shadow side of it. The tree itself would make a LOT more sense and everything would tie up together. @Jason

13 minutes ago, Dingle said:

Pipspook 1 through 3 increases the rate of mourning glory gain by around 600%, when you factor in both the shorter time per full quest and the much greater reward.

Just so you know.

I should've explained myself better in the post. They're useless as skills, since you have to rationalize the other options, which are way better IMO. To condense them into 2 would be a better option imo.

Pipspook Quest 1 should be removed. Then 2 and 3 would be --> 1 and 2. Then the amount of mourning glory would be slightly reduced by 10%.

Vengeful Ghost should then be necessary to level up current Mourning Glory 3 (revive) --> Vengeful ghost would be the first, and Mourning Glory 3 would change it's name and be after Vengeful Ghost.

Picnic Casket would leave the potion side, and a new skill would be put there --> A skill that reduced the cost of potions from 3 to 2 mourning glory. This would account for the reduction in pipspook quests, and be a better option since the Wraith's Wreath cost would be unchanged, focusing the player to actually NOT BE REQUIRED to have Pipspook quests if they're not using the Wreath (like in a shadow abi setup).

Then, the revival of butterflies would be added to allow butterfly wings to be put in the casket as well --> Revival of butterflies into Picnic Casket (Can now store bufferfly wings for an infinite amount of time) into Wraith's Wreath.

If there's any flaws in this please let me know. But also please consider these intricacies that I see as problems in her skill tree. Pipspook is so underwhelming in what it does for 3 levels, and it is necessary for a wraith's wreath constant use + craft of nightshade nostrums for night vision. Lantern, torch and other illuminating options cost resources maintenance, the crown costs sanity to light, but this one forces you to waste 3 skill in the pipspook quests, or spend a ridiculous amount of time farming for mourning glory, which would not account for the benefits of using the Wraith's Wreath, which needs a buff in other potions, and maybe be more expensive, and also be at the end of the segment of the mourning glory side of skills.

[Debruh]

1 hour ago, Swiyss said:

 

Okay, say I wanna mass craft a bunch of potions and use the Wraith's Wreath. It took me 5 days for 56 mourning glory. I made enough potions to sustain 10 days of night vision and killed 4 bosses, using a spectre cure all 2 times and I still have 3 potions left. If I had that skill, not only I would have to sacrifice the wreath probably, but it would also made me take maybe 4 days instead of 5. There's no way I'm ever picking that up. I tried even, and it made 0 sense to me atleast, I'm not in a rush for mourning glory. I believe YES these skills is too underwhelming, and it should be either pushed back to add better skills. 

If klei has some skill ideas in mind, I wouldn't mind them merging these 3 into one and adding these ideas into the game, that's what I'm trying to say.

56 morning glory can be gathered in like a day or two, in a forest with the pipspook skills.

Thanks to pipspook skills and extra yield, I have around 30 nightshade, probably more, gathered in only a short bit of time. Plus saved pure horror while making cursed vex. I also jave mass production cure-all with pipspook skills, extra yield and Wraith's Wreath before.

Pipspook and extra yield also allowed me to use elixirs on a daily basis instead of only on bosses, such as vigor mortis.

I have all of team spirit, pipspook, shadow, and elixir skills. With Wraith's Wreath, so you can absolutely get a lot of skills with them.

The worthwile thing that I don't have is the first grave skill, which if pipspook skills are condensed in any way, I'll get. Effectively having all the good parts of the skill tree. Condensing isn't a good idea.

[Swiyss]

1 minute ago, Debruh said:

56 morning glory can be gathered in like a day or two, in a forest with the pipspook skills.

Thanks to pipspook skills and extra yield, I have around 30 nightshade, probably more, gathered in only a short bit of time. Plus saved pure horror while making cursed vex. I also jave mass production cure-all with pipspook skills, extra yield and Wraith's Wreath before.

Pipspook and extra yield also allowed me to use elixirs on a daily basis instead of only on bosses, such as vigor mortis.

I have all of team spirit, pipspook, shadow, and elixir skills. With Wraith's Wreath, so you can absolutely get a lot of skills with them.

The worthwile thing that I don't have is the first grave skill, which if pipspook skills are condensed in any way, I'll get. Effectively having all the good parts of the skill tree. Condensing isn't a good idea.

Pipspook quest 1 is only there for show of balance. But I believe my solution would make this balance issue way more alleviating. The weight of some skills right now are too overwhelming.

[Debruh]

5 minutes ago, Swiyss said:

Pipspook quest 1 is only there for show of balance. But I believe my solution would make this balance issue way more alleviating. The weight of some skills right now are too overwhelming.

Pipspook 1 helps a ton, and is worth it even on its own. It makes stuff spawn closer and avoid spawning across oceans and gaps.

Any condensing will lead to someone being able to basically take the whole skill tree.

[Swiyss]

7 minutes ago, Debruh said:

Pipspook 1 helps a ton, and is worth it even on its own. It makes stuff spawn closer and avoid spawning across oceans and gaps.

Any condensing will lead to someone being able to basically take the whole skill tree.

I'm suggesting the addition of 2, and to remove 1. If you do the math, there will be 1 skill added to the tree. The tree is already too small and have too many skills that show underwhelming descriptions.

[Debruh]

34 minutes ago, Swiyss said:

I'm suggesting the addition of 2, and to remove 1. If you do the math, there will be 1 skill added to the tree. The tree is already too small and have too many skills that show underwhelming descriptions.

So, being able to take the already strong perks and adding another perk to the mix?

The tree isn't really small.