Wendy feedback - skill tree is overtuned

[yuntunhemudu]

21 hours ago, Dingle said:

In future playthroughs, I'd fight nightmare werepig way earlier.

It sounds like you're better at killing bosses than me. Considering Wendy is not suitable for using dreadstone helm, I rarely try to kill Werepig. Now Cursed Vexation needs to additionally kill Werepig， which makes me feel beyond my comfort zone. Maybe I would not choose Shadow Abigail and Shadow Potions.

[Dingle]

2 hours ago, yuntunhemudu said:

It sounds like you're better at killing bosses than me. Considering Wendy is not suitable for using dreadstone helm, I rarely try to kill Werepig. Now Cursed Vexation needs to additionally kill Werepig， which makes me feel beyond my comfort zone. Maybe I would not choose Shadow Abigail and Shadow Potions.

I usually only killed nightmare werepig right before fuelweaver. You need the dreadstone to open rifts, anyway. I also usually don't use the armor. But yeah, I think I want to start killing him earlier in a Wendy run.

Even if you never get Vex, shadow abby is really strong due to the Murder buff. It doubles her damage. Half of that is planar, too.

I used to have a lot of problems with the nightmare werepig fight, but got used to it eventually. Wendy is pretty good in the fight, as its easy to have Abby dodge him (dont use vigor mortis!)

Here is a video someone posted of a normal run where they kill ag and nmwp. They don't use their beefalo for nmwp. Resposting it here, because it's really helpful to see playthroughs from people that aren't expert speedrunners:

 

[Lee lol]

4小时前，yuntunhemudu说：

听起来你比我更会杀死老板。考虑到Wendy不适合使用dreadstone头盔，我很少尝试杀死Werepig。现在，Cursed Vexation需要额外杀死Werepig，这让我感觉超出了我的舒适区域。也许我不会选择Shadow Abigail和Shadow Potions。

But it's really easy for Wendy to kill werepig. You just needs to let werepig pass between wendy and abi (the first stage). In the second stage, you can unsummon abi，and summon abi in the third stage.

[Dingle]

2 minutes ago, Lee lol said:

But it's really easy for Wendy to kill werepig. You just needs to let werepig pass between wendy and abi (the first stage). In the second stage, you can unsummon abi，and summon abi in the third stage.

In the video he doesn't even unsummon. Escape makes it safer, too.

[Debruh]

1 hour ago, Lee lol said:

In the second stage, you can unsummon abi，and summon abi in the third stage.

1 hour ago, Dingle said:

In the video he doesn't even unsummon. Escape makes it safer, too.

Attack at helps a lot in phase 2. While you could just let him slam and circle as seen in tje video, I always find it pretty easy to make Abby go in the direction I'm directing him in.

[Dingle]

2 minutes ago, Debruh said:

Attack at helps a lot in phase 2. While you could just let him slam and circle as seen in tje video, I always find it pretty easy to make Abby go in the direct I'm directing him 

I like using attack here to fling her a distance away in some fights, for breathing room. It's way faster than unsummoning and resummoning.

[Debruh]

1 minute ago, Dingle said:

I like using attack here to fling her a distance away in some fights, for breathing room. It's way faster than unsummoning and resummoning.

Yea. Flabbergasted that people don't like team spirit. Attack at, is like the best part of the tree.

[Dingle]

Just now, Debruh said:

Yea. Flabbergasted that people don't like team spirit. Attack at, is like the best part of the tree.

Attack Here is the most obvious best, but I like Escape the more I use it. Scare is also way more handy than I thought it would be.

[Debruh]

3 minutes ago, Dingle said:

Attack Here is the most obvious best, but I like Escape the more I use it. Scare is also way more handy than I thought it would be.

Yea. The other two are pretty underrated

Scare's handy 100% spider gland chance from spiders is always amazing for farming. It always reminds me of the part where Abby scares a spider in This comic, which was one of the first dst things I saw. (Had to search it up lol. The characterization isn't 100%, but it's pretty cool still.)

[Giovirtual79]

17 hours ago, Debruh said:

Attack at helps a lot in phase 2. While you could just let him slam and circle as seen in tje video, I always find it pretty easy to make Abby go in the direction I'm directing him in.

Yeah, the only reason I never used Attack at in this fight was because the darkness prevents you from using the command. Because of that, I opted to just outrun Abby

 

I would've used attack here more if I could, though

23 hours ago, yuntunhemudu said:

It sounds like you're better at killing bosses than me. Considering Wendy is not suitable for using dreadstone helm, I rarely try to kill Werepig. Now Cursed Vexation needs to additionally kill Werepig， which makes me feel beyond my comfort zone. Maybe I would not choose Shadow Abigail and Shadow Potions.

Vex Potion definitely feels like something intimidating. However even without the vex potion, Shadow Abigail is still really good because you still keep your AOE damage and you now have the ability to double Abby's damage, with some of the damage being Planar.

[Dingle]

About to finish my rifts open playthrough as Wendy. Will link it here when I'm done as someone asked for it, before.

Just wanted to say I'm upgrading my opinion from "pretty overtuned" to "brutally overpowered."

[WenericMember]

14 minutes ago, Dingle said:

About to finish my rifts open playthrough as Wendy. Will link it here when I'm done as someone asked for it, before.

Just wanted to say I'm upgrading my opinion from "pretty overtuned" to "brutally overpowered."

Is it still mainly Blessed Sisturn? If not, what else do you find problematic?

[Debruh]

9 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

Is it still mainly Blessed Sisturn? If not, what else do you find problematic?

Apparently shadow Abby gains planar defense, which is wild in my opinion 

[WenericMember]

56 minutes ago, Debruh said:

Apparently shadow Abby gains planar defense, which is wild in my opinion 

That's fair, It's def unecessary, but I'm surprised it's a dealbreaker.

[Dingle]

55 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

Is it still mainly Blessed Sisturn? If not, what else do you find problematic?

I didn't even get Blessed Sisturn this time.

Shadow Abigail is just completely nuts. Not sure if you saw it, but besides the Murder buff giving the extra 40 planar aoe DPS, she gets 30 planar defense. This is way more than a player can get.

For example, she can quickly and easily solo the ink blight trio. They die fast, and she takes like 100 damage. Takes about 5 or 6 bees or whatever you prefer murdering. By solo, I mean you can just send her in and have Wendy stand away from the fight.

Without the murder buff, she can also do it with a revenant and minimal assistance from Wendy. Really you just need to have her AOE stay on the big one the most. Takes longer, though. Even the base 15 planar defense helps a lot.

Deadly Brightshades ended up being a joke for her. I made it a point to fight them, except for my last time, with a hambat. Shadow Abby pops the vines crazy fast if you use nostrum, and you can easily kill a brightshade in one stun cycle. Her defense also makes mistakes way less of a big deal, you can then use Escape to back her off.

Lunar Varg and Crystal Deerclops weren't a big deal. I didn't fight Armored Bearger, but Lardee had a video of a 45 second Wendy fight.

Vex potions are more or less free due to increased mourning glory, and the new tenebrau mask things giving pure horror. It seems to wildly increase damage on pre rift content. In a previous non rift playthrough, I figured out she can get these pre rift, too. 4 is enough to let you steamroll 4 bosses, one of which should be fuelweaver to open the rifts.

I made graven elixirs but abby ended up never dying, until my very final fight. It was because I was messing around with bigspooks on deadly brightshades, haha. They triggered the aoe way too much.

[Debruh]

Just now, WenericMember said:

That's fair, It's def unecessary, but I'm surprised it's a dealbreaker.

I doubt that's the dealbreaker for Dingle. But that's what I remember learning from that thread off the top of my head.

For me not really a deal breaker, just lretty wild.

[Dingle]

1 minute ago, WenericMember said:

That's fair, It's def unecessary, but I'm surprised it's a dealbreaker.

I kept wondering why she took so little damage on cave rift content. The 30 planar defense really does do a ton.

Though its not just that, its a combination along with mourning glory now being vastly easier to get. Along with everyone going "its fine if shes strong before rift content. She's bad at rift content"

Total lie, she's extremely powerful against rift content.

[WenericMember]

2 minutes ago, Dingle said:

I didn't even get Blessed Sisturn this time.

Shadow Abigail is just completely nuts. Not sure if you saw it, but besides the Murder buff giving the extra 40 planar aoe DPS, she gets 30 planar defense. This is way more than a player can get.

For example, she can quickly and easily solo the ink blight trio. They die fast, and she takes like 100 damage. Takes about 5 or 6 bees or whatever you prefer murdering. By solo, I mean you can just send her in and have Wendy stand away from the fight.

Without the murder buff, she can also do it with a revenant and minimal assistance from Wendy. Really you just need to have her AOE stay on the big one the most. Takes longer, though. Even the base 15 planar defense helps a lot.

Deadly Brightshades ended up being a joke for her. I made it a point to fight them, except for my last time, with a hambat. Shadow Abby pops the vines crazy fast if you use nostrum, and you can easily kill a brightshade in one stun cycle. Her defense also makes mistakes way less of a big deal, you can then use Escape to back her off.

Lunar Varg and Crystal Deerclops weren't a big deal. I didn't fight Armored Bearger, but Lardee had a video of a 45 second Wendy fight.

Vex potions are more or less free due to increased mourning glory, and the new tenebrau mask things giving pure horror. It seems to wildly increase damage on pre rift content. In a previous non rift playthrough, I figured out she can get these pre rift, too. 4 is enough to let you steamroll 4 bosses, one of which should be fuelweaver to open the rifts.

I made graven elixirs but abby ended up never dying, until my very final fight. It was because I was messing around with bigspooks on deadly brightshades, haha. They triggered the aoe way too much.

That's all fair enough, though I will say the vex potion is fine as it's not planar damage, and is also only accessible early because rifts were enabled.

I'd say:

• Rework Blessed Sisturn to be a not defensive perk. It's always going to either end up useless or overtuned, do something else with the lunar blossom quest
• SS3 has Planar defense removed. It's cool, but is kinda dumb.
• SS1 makes Wendy deal planar damage when hitting vexxed targets instead of Planar defense.

[Debruh]

8 minutes ago, Dingle said:

The 30 planar defense really does do a ton.

On the brightshade, I'm pretty sure everyone would be totally fine with this being removed.

[Dingle]

1 minute ago, WenericMember said:

That's all fair enough, though I will say the vex potion is fine as it's not planar damage, and is also only accessible early because rifts were enabled.

I'd say:

• Rework Blessed Sisturn to be a not defensive perk. It's always going to either end up useless or overtuned, do something else with the lunar blossom quest
• SS3 has Planar defense removed. It's cool, but is kinda dumb.
• SS1 makes Wendy deal planar damage when hitting vexxed targets instead of Planar defense.

Vex is accessible pre rift, from Nightmare Werepig. I believe it drops 4 to 6 pure horror per kill. It's only 1 pure horror for the potion.

The optimal thing to do now is probably kill nmwp as your third boss. Then kill shadow pieces trio and fuelweaver either asap, or before you run out of vex potions.

It's seriously worth it.

Changing it to a small planar boost instead might work. Though probably not too strong, because after the rifts its still basically a free resource. Oh, and the whole super potion aspect of it.

Blessed Sisturn 3, whatever it ends up being, has to be almost exactly as strong as Potions 3 and 4 combined.

That's what the insight points will be competing with.

[WenericMember]

1 minute ago, Dingle said:

Vex is accessible pre rift, from Nightmare Werepig. I believe it drops 4 to 6 pure horror per kill. It's only 1 pure horror for the potion.

The optimal thing to do now is probably kill nmwp as your third boss. Then kill shadow pieces trio and fuelweaver either asap, or before you run out of vex potions.

It's seriously worth it.

Changing it to a small planar boost instead might work. Though probably not too strong, because after the rifts its still basically a free resource. Oh, and the whole super potion aspect of it.

Sure, but that's still only 4-6 potions for the entire Pre-rift section of the game (bc I doubt ppl will do Nightmare -> Scrappy -> Nightmare prerifts).

It's good, but it's nothing insane, especially if you aren't on beef.

And that's not even mentioning doing it in MP. Wurt needs one for her alignment perk (with presumably more to come), idk if Walter wants it, etc.

[Dingle]

6 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

Sure, but that's still only 4-6 potions for the entire Pre-rift section of the game (bc I doubt ppl will do Nightmare -> Scrappy -> Nightmare prerifts).

It's good, but it's nothing insane, especially if you aren't on beef.

And that's not even mentioning doing it in MP. Wurt needs one for her alignment perk (with presumably more to come), idk if Walter wants it, etc.

It lets you nuke 4 to 6 bosses though. If fw is included in there, you're set.

If we're talking a never kill fw world, there's always green gems. Though you really should kill fw as Wendy, considering that she can stomp him now.

It's still a big power surge without a beef. Its just even crazier on one.

[WenericMember]

4 minutes ago, Dingle said:

It lets you nuke 4 to 6 bosses though. If fw is included in there, you're set.

If we're talking a never kill fw world, there's always green gems. Though you really should kill fw as Wendy, considering that she can stomp him now.

I guess, but I don't think giving Wendy Wolfgang damage is a problem when it requires so much work. The issue is the amount of survivability shadow Abby has makes it so the DPS is as free as Wolfgang's.

Without Blessed Sisturn/Planar Defense shadow Abby is a glass cannon, which is what she should be.

[Dingle]

16 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

I guess, but I don't think giving Wendy Wolfgang damage is a problem when it requires so much work. The issue is the amount of survivability shadow Abby has makes it so the DPS is as free as Wolfgang's.

Without Blessed Sisturn/Planar Defense shadow Abby is a glass cannon, which is what she should be.

It's often more free, due to the aoe and tanking and afking.

I can't remember what Shadow Sister I used to be. Was it always 15 planar defense?

[WenericMember]

6 minutes ago, Dingle said:

It's often more free, due to the aoe and tanking and afking.

I can't remember what Shadow Sister I used to be. Was it always 15 planar defense?

I guess we just disagree, but whatever, it's not that important.

I think it started off as 5 planar defense, then got upped to 15 for both alignments.

5 was literally nothing, so I don't really object to it being buffed, but they did go too far with SS.