A (hopefully) easy and final adjustment for Wendy

[SilverSpoon]

33 minutes ago, Echsrick said:

maybe that is the point, maaybe the ghost does not need the exessive amount of extra health for pretty much free aswell as the healing that can be gotten easy enought

Perhaps ghost does not need, casual player need it. I think it is okay to have large margin to control Abigail so she doesn't die while fighting bosses...

[Echsrick]

22 minutes ago, SilverSpoon said:

Perhaps ghost does not need, casual player need it. I think it is okay to have large margin to control Abigail so she doesn't die while fighting bosses...

maybe thats the supposed downside? having a bit harder time against bosse? wich honestly not realy especialy because it barely affects her and she can do more damage then wilson because of the ghost meaning in faster kills, i can only think of 1 boss were abigal is worse and that is klaus simply because abigal probably will kill the deers wich is 1 boss out of how many?

[Dingle]

1 minute ago, Echsrick said:

maybe thats the supposed downside? having a bit harder time against bosse? wich honestly not realy especialy because it barely affects her and she can do more damage then wilson because of the ghost meaning in faster kills, i can only think of 1 boss were abigal is worse and that is klaus simply because abigal probably will kill the deers wich is 1 boss out of how many?

The team spirit commands fix the Klaus fight nicely, as its easy now to make Abby switch positions. I kept abby out for the whole fight, one deer got to a third health and the other half.

It was also the first time I fought him as Wendy in forever. So I was playing pretty sloppy. I could have done better.

Also just took one Revenant Restorative.

[EctoPlaza]

4 minutes ago, Dingle said:

The team spirit commands fix the Klaus fight nicely, as its easy now to make Abby switch positions. I kept abby out for the whole fight, one deer got to a third health and the other half.

It was also the first time I fought him as Wendy in forever. So I was playing pretty sloppy. I could have done better.

Also just took one Revenant Restorative.

I know you take screenshots, but have you considered sharing videos?

[Dingle]

4 minutes ago, EctoPlaza said:

I know you take screenshots, but have you considered sharing videos?

I'd like to but dont hsve enough time on my computer, so what little time I get is mostly playing the beta.

I can write text posts on my phone, but cant edit video on it. Or at least I dont know how.

[Debruh]

16 minutes ago, Echsrick said:

maybe thats the supposed downside? having a bit harder time against bosse? wich honestly not realy especialy because it barely affects her and she can do more damage then wilson because of the ghost meaning in faster kills, i can only think of 1 boss were abigal is worse and that is klaus simply because abigal probably will kill the deers wich is 1 boss out of how many?

13 minutes ago, Dingle said:

The team spirit commands fix the Klaus fight nicely, as its easy now to make Abby switch positions. I kept abby out for the whole fight, one deer got to a third health and the other half.

It was also the first time I fought him as Wendy in forever. So I was playing pretty sloppy. I could have done better.

Also just took one Revenant Restorative.

And scare can take the deer out of commission. I'm pretty sloppy at the fight, so I can't show an ideam version. But might try to at least show it, tomorrow.

[DVGMedia]

If we are giving sisturn 3 and sisturn 4  They better be levels and not just HP increases.
Because levels include other things for abby More than just hp.

I think it really just depends on what the player is going to spend their points on.

Alot of people don't even really spend points on the durability of sisturn because abby can actually  live alot of things

So sisturn should be more of a utility upgrade than one for combat

 

[This14Real]

On 1/6/2025 at 1:31 PM, EctoPlaza said:

I apologize, I'm just tired of seeing the dismissiveness of the controller crowd, as the only person who seemed to be considerate of all types of players in an equal light (the person I linked to) appears to be gone now. 

Nonetheless, I might as well advertise and bump on their behalf, as they had some near ideas I agree with. 

I was following the engagement of that post when it came out. The original poster probably left it as is due to a developer assuring some controller tweaks were in the works.
All we gotta do is wait now.

[Steorra]

2 hours ago, DVGMedia said:

If we are giving sisturn 3 and sisturn 4  They better be levels and not just HP increases.
Because levels include other things for abby More than just hp.

I agree with this. Since simple HP amounts like BERNIE! skills make me feeling boring.

5 hours ago, Echsrick said:

maybe thats the supposed downside?

This is meaningless when you comparing with Soul Jar. It was a supposed downside to limit the soul amounts lesser than 20, but both soul jar and other feature of naught tendency/skills has fixed this downside. No need to say Winter to Willow, Weakness after transformation for Woodie, Unmovable and expensive bulky mechines of Winona - they all got fixed by their skill tree.

5 hours ago, Dingle said:

The team spirit commands fix the Klaus fight nicely, as its easy now to make Abby switch positions

A potential problem I would like to ask is - team spirit has a long animation and we only have about 3-4 hits timing before next dodge when fighting Klaus, wouldn't the team spirit makes us feeling bulky when fighting Klaus? I guess it need improvement urgently for this aspect... If the animation of team spirit makes Wendy hitting amounts to Klaus from 4 per dodge to 3 per dodge then it is a 25% DPS losses, it is a massive amounts which might lead a result that to fight Klaus without Abi might be an easier option.

[Echsrick]

6 minutes ago, Steorra said:

Soul Jar

wich he may not even get because bad rng with red gems and or bottles, and even then, the soul jar still takes up an inventory slot
 

7 minutes ago, Steorra said:

No need to say Winter to Willow

what?
 

8 minutes ago, Steorra said:

Weakness after transformation for Woodie

he gets the choice of takin a skill to have not 0 hunger when becoming human again, barely a bit of hunger left, not realy removing a weakness more so a small thing and full moons usualy dont happen that often without manipulation
 

9 minutes ago, Steorra said:

Bulky of Winona's mechines - they all got fixed by their skill tree.

the machinese were allways able to kill things if you had enought of them, and what exactly you mean got "fixed"? wilson? that skill tree still has torches

[Yifei_]

8 hours ago, RussoDaFederal said:

Comparing "spamming an item" to "spamming followers" is either naive or misleading. They're completely different.

Also, let's please not start this discussion again. Is Wendy too strong, is Abigail too tanky, we've been through this. By now it's pretty clear where Wendy and Abi stand, and we all want a balanced experience in Don't Starve. We could argue all day about the thousands of strategies and exploits for killing bosses, but using that as an argument to why Wendy should be stronger is misleading. Please, just stop. This is not what this post is for. I've already explained why 900 HP is the best solution to blessed sisturn 3, and even the portion of the forum that believes player tag is not broken agrees that there are issues with it. 900 HP seems to be what most people agree on, and a few people think 1200 is better. Let's not stick to the "is player tag broken" discussion, we're past that point. This also overshadows other important discussions like proper controller support, that I still have no idea how to enhance the user experience on the console.

I don't really think there's any difference between the two. Moreover, in my examples, Willow, Maxwell, and Wickerbottom all rely on items.

I apologize for deviating from the topic of the post. Since many people including me supports the method of increasing the maximum health, I am more than willing to concede on this point. As for how much health cap is appropriate, I'm not sure, as I haven't tested it myself.

[Steorra]

13 minutes ago, Echsrick said:

what

Winter survival was a classic downside of Willow before the skill tree for inexperienced players.

13 minutes ago, Echsrick said:

and even then, the soul jar still takes up an inventory slot

Could you tell me what percentage of enhancement when an inventory slot was taken by soul jar for Wortox?

And the soul jar fixing to Wortox downside was already mentioned before. I'm ok with downside fixing, but if you're not, please don't be flexible standard to different characters. That would only makes your words become unreliable to most other forum members.

13 minutes ago, Echsrick said:

so a small thing

Have you ever truly played Woodie? And why you ignoring the Shadow affinity of Woodie? Do you know the weaken period after transformation for Woodie is a huge downside when some enemies were going after him? He might die by hungry of eating animation in that scenario and the scenario is so common for Woodie before the tree.

13 minutes ago, Echsrick said:

and what exactly you mean got "fixed

You have to build 1 set of machines for PER scenarios before, but thanks to her skill tree you could moving your machines and you could use only 1 set of machines for all scenarios now when you is lack of resources.

[Lee lol]

9 hours ago, RussoDaFederal said:

900 HP seems to be what most people agree on, and a few people think 1200 is better

 

[Dingle]

21 minutes ago, Steorra said:

I agree with this. Since simple HP amounts like BERNIE! skills make me feeling boring.

This is meaningless when you comparing with Soul Jar. It was a supposed downside to limit the soul amounts lesser than 20, but both soul jar and other feature of naught tendency/skills has fixed this downside. No need to say Winter to Willow, Weakness after transformation for Woodie, Unmovable and expensive bulky mechines of Winona - they all got fixed by their skill tree.

A potential problem I would like to ask is - team spirit has a long animation and we only have about 3-4 hits timing before next dodge when fighting Klaus, wouldn't the team spirit makes us feeling bulky when fighting Klaus? I guess it need improvement urgently for this aspect... If the animation of team spirit makes Wendy hitting amounts to Klaus from 4 per dodge to 3 per dodge then it is a 25% DPS losses, it is a massive amounts which might lead a result that to fight Klaus without Abi might be an easier option.

Ignoring the above stuff as I think we had similar discussions. I still think it's a weak argument.

For Klaus, I mostly only used Escape and Attack here to reposition what deer abby was on easily. And I only had to do this every so often, so it didn't mess with my kiting much.

Klaus tries to attack Wendy much more than Abby. By far, the most damage Abby took wasn't from Klaus. It was from the gem deer melee attacking her!

Debruh above was going to make a video, so hopefully that comes out and shows the fight better than I was describing.

[Yifei_]

10 hours ago, Debruh said:

Personally, I hate it cause

1) Invalidates other skills. Skills that were made so that Abby is more survivable such as team spirit and gestalt Abby, are kinda useless now with player tag. Why use them when you can just spam cure-all with player tag.

2) Kinda makes you ignore Abby. You just put cure-all. Fights usually required positioning and dodging early to be able to protect Abby from damage.

People wanted more fault tolerance, but did want to still fight alongside Abby. Not just put cure-all and go with it.

3) Furthurs the gap between cure-all and the other elixirs even more.

I understand your point (except that I think gestalt Abigail is terrible), but the player tag doesn't prevent me from using the tricks and other methods available in the current non-skill tree version or skill tree to improve Abigail's survivability. It's the same logic as knowing that walls can block lavae but I still prefer choosing to confront dragonflies head-on, or that the Marble Suit can tank most bosses but I still prefer to dodge.

However, I'm also tired, so let's not continue discussing the "player tag." Sometimes it's valuable to concede. Let's get back to the topic of this post— how to increase the health cap.

[Steorra]

11 minutes ago, Dingle said:

It was from the gem deer melee attacking her!

Tbh this also makes the deer being stun locked by Abi for a long period and gave a massive damage output window for Wendy. I'm not sure which choice would be better, it seems like more depends on personal playstyle. Though to combine these two things (using team spirit to adjust Abi's target to different deers and trying to stun lock every deers when they casting spells) might lead a better result.

15 minutes ago, Dingle said:

Ignoring the above stuff as I think we had similar discussions. I still think it's a weak argument.

I guess I was absence when the soul jar argument happened to Wortox (regarding the downside fixing topic)

[Dingle]

1 minute ago, Steorra said:

Tbh this also makes the deer being stun locked by Abi for a long period and gave a massive damage output window for Wendy. I'm not sure which choice would be better, it seems like more depends on personal playstyle. Though to combine these two things (using team spirit to adjust Abi's target to different deers and trying to stun lock every deers when they casting spells) might lead a better result.

I was mostly just switching Abby's target, yeah. She was attacking the deer a lot otherwise, I wasn't really using Escape to have her dodge attacks. Though I would use escape sometimes, to give me and abby some time to breathe (I was rusty on the fight, especially as Wendy).

The best of all is likely getting Scare, but I didn't have it.

[Lee lol]

4 minutes ago, Steorra said:

Tbh this also makes the deer being stun locked by Abi for a long period and gave a massive damage output window for Wendy. I'm not sure which choice would be better, it seems like more depends on personal playstyle. Though to combine these two things (using team spirit to adjust Abi's target to different deers and trying to stun lock every deers when they casting spells) might lead a better result.

I guess I was absence when the soul jar argument happened to Wortox (regarding the downside fixing topic)

I don't know if anyone has tried to use gestalt against Klaus? I think she seems to be more suitable.

[Steorra]

8 minutes ago, Dingle said:

The best of all is likely getting Scare,

I was ignored the Huant when fighting Klaus before, so I'm not sure if the scaring of deers could lock Klaus into its spell casting animation or not...

7 minutes ago, Lee lol said:

I don't know if anyone has tried to use gestalt against Klaus? I think she seems to be more suitable.

Sounds reasonable, but then lost the free attack window when stun locking spell casting deers. I'd like to try it after next beta patch (which would have a possibility to fix Gestalt Abi)

[Yifei_]

13 minutes ago, Steorra said:

Tbh this also makes the deer being stun locked by Abi for a long period and gave a massive damage output window for Wendy. I'm not sure which choice would be better, it seems like more depends on personal playstyle. Though to combine these two things (using team spirit to adjust Abi's target to different deers and trying to stun lock every deers when they casting spells) might lead a better result.

For Klaus, I choose to only summon Abigail during the first phase to deal with Krampus, and rely solely on my own damage output against Klaus. In the second phase, I opt to summon Abigail to increase the damage output, while I tank to quickly defeat Klaus. This is my strategy for the current version without the skill tree.

6 hours ago, Dingle said:

The team spirit commands fix the Klaus fight nicely, as its easy now to make Abby switch positions. I kept abby out for the whole fight, one deer got to a third health and the other half.

It was also the first time I fought him as Wendy in forever. So I was playing pretty sloppy. I could have done better.

For Klaus, Abigail's main issue is not her survivability but her tendency to kill deer easily. I suggest fighting while riding a Beefalo. Do not summon Abigail during the first phase, but summon her during the second phase to quickly defeat Klaus. As for the skill tree situation, I am concerned that summoning Abigail during the first phase would require the player to control her, which could potentially lead to even lower damage output.

This video is of me defeating Klaus while riding a Beefalo in the version without the skill tree. I personally feel that the Klaus boss battle is already quite "tidy" and interesting without the skill tree.

[Dingle]

1 hour ago, Steorra said:

I was ignored the Huant when fighting Klaus before, so I'm not sure if the scaring of deers could lock Klaus into its spell casting animation or not...

Someone recently told me this works, but the timing was tight. I'd remember their name the instant I saw their forum picture...

57 minutes ago, Yifei_ said:

For Klaus, I choose to only summon Abigail during the first phase to deal with Krampus, and rely solely on my own damage output against Klaus. In the second phase, I opt to summon Abigail to increase the damage output, while I tank to quickly defeat Klaus. This is my strategy for the current version without the skill tree.

You don't need to do this post skill tree, you can have her out at all times. What you do pre skill tree is correct, though.

57 minutes ago, Yifei_ said:

For Klaus, Abigail's main issue is not her survivability but her tendency to kill deer easily. I suggest fighting while riding a Beefalo. Do not summon Abigail during the first phase, but summon her during the second phase to quickly defeat Klaus. As for the skill tree situation, I am concerned that summoning Abigail during the first phase would require the player to control her, which could potentially lead to even lower damage output.

This video is of me defeating Klaus while riding a Beefalo in the version without the skill tree. I personally feel that the Klaus boss battle is already quite "tidy" and interesting without the skill tree.

Yes, the issue was always Abby killing the deer. I was saying that you can use team spirit to make it so abby switches deer occasionally, so neither end up dying. Translation issues maybe?

She also doesn't need many team spirit commands, you just need to every so often, so she's switching what deer she's damaging. It worked quite well for me.

 

[Yifei_]

54 minutes ago, Dingle said:

Yes, the issue was always Abby killing the deer. I was saying that you can use team spirit to make it so abby switches deer occasionally, so neither end up dying. Translation issues maybe?

She also doesn't need many team spirit commands, you just need to every so often, so she's switching what deer she's damaging. It worked quite well for me.

I didn't misunderstand your meaning, and I didn't use a translation tool to read, and I think there's no issue with translation here. What I'm trying to say is that even with the skill tree, using Team Spirits is not as effective as not using them. The rhythm is quite important in the Klaus boss battle. Using skills from the Team Spirits series can disrupt the damage output rhythm and also compress the time for dealing damage. Both before and after the skill tree, I would adopt the same strategy: only summoning Abigail during the second phase.

If you can maintain good movement rhythm, try to have Abigail attack only Klaus and not the deer, and follow the "attack three times, then dodge" rhythm while riding a beefalo (or "attack four times, then dodge" for the character), then I would be very happy to learn from you.

[Steorra]

7 minutes ago, Yifei_ said:

The rhythm is quite important in the Klaus boss battle. Using skills from the Team Spirits series can disrupt the damage output rhythm and also compress the time for dealing damage. Both before and after the skill tree, I would adopt the same strategy: only summoning Abigail during the second phase.

This would be a good example for clarify that why team spirit animation need shorten i guess 

[Yifei_]

7 hours ago, Dingle said:

The team spirit commands fix the Klaus fight nicely, as its easy now to make Abby switch positions. I kept abby out for the whole fight, one deer got to a third health and the other half.

Moreover, I just tested again the scenario where Abigail is summoned in both the first and second phases. When it's always daytime, you don't need to do anything with Abigail's flower (except for needing one or two bottles of cure-all), and Klaus's two deer will still not die (One is of 400hp and the other is of 1100hp). The battle can be concluded in about three minutes.
 

[Dingle]

15 minutes ago, Yifei_ said:

Moreover, I just tested again the scenario where Abigail is summoned in both the first and second phases. When it's always daytime, you don't need to do anything with Abigail's flower (except for needing one or two bottles of cure-all), and Klaus's two deer will still not die (One is of 400hp and the other is of 1100hp). The battle can be concluded in about three minutes.
 

I don't remember exactly how long my fight took, maybe I can figure it out by looking at my screenshots.

I only used a revenant, though.

For your other points, I didnt compare it directly to not using escape/attack here. I just remember it being way harder without them, than with them.