A (hopefully) easy and final adjustment for Wendy

[RussoDaFederal]

First Monday of the year so I'm assuming Klei is back from the holidays, or at least a part of the team is. I hope everyone had a good time with family and loved ones btw.

So... The last update left the forum divided, as always. I'm not here to point fingers at anyone tho, I just want to provide what I think are easy solutions to the issues that we currently have. From my perspective, and from what I've seen in the forum, the current issues are: lack of controller compatibility, especially with wraith's wreath; gestalt Abi's attack command is bugged; gestalt Abi is weak; player tag is too powerful.

Controller compatibility: not sure about this one, but there are multiple items that can be fueled or recharged in the game. Lightbulbs recharge lanterns, nightmare fuel recharges... Well, a lot of stuff. And wraith's wreathe suffers from the same issue, it needs to be "recharged" by the elixirs. Maybe a solution would be to add a trigger button (LT, RT, not sure if they are already bound to something important) as if they were equivalent of alt/shift/ctrl, if you press for example LT + Y you apply the selected item to what you currently have equipped. The important thing here is to assign the "apply" command to a single key. Maybe you'd need 2 keys, one for chest and one for head slots, but I'm just throwing ideas because I don't play with a controller. Anyway, moving on,

Gestalt Abi's "attack at" command: it still does default Abi damage to all targets in its path. It should instead select a single target, the one closest to what the player pointed at, and attack it with gestalt Abi's attack animation.

Gestalt Abi's damage output: currently gestalt Abi does 250 damage on a single hit at night, every 4 seconds or so. That's higher dps on a single target compared to default Abi (160 over 4 seconds), but compared to shadow Abi with the murder buff she kinda falls behind. Sure, you could use her potion to increase her damage, but murdering small creatures is so much cheaper than making a super elixir that it makes shadow Abi stronger in 99% of the scenarios. Shouldn't she have as much damage as buffed shadow Abi? That was the original idea, wasn't it? Shadow Abi does 5 attacks in 5 seconds totaling 400 damage, and gestalt Abi does a single 400 damage attack and then has a 5 second cooldown. Why was her damage nerfed alongside her survivability?

Player tag: I think the rest of the forum already made it very clear how the blessed sisturn 3 skill is broken. I'm not gonna dwell on this topic because it's been discussed too many times, but doubling the efficiency of Wendy's strongest elixir is pretty bonkers. And no, the solution shouldn't be nerfing the elixir or adding convoluted conditions for this to work, just replace the player tag by something else, i.e. an extra level. At first I suggested increasing Abi's health to 1200, but honestly I think that's a little bit too much and 900 would suffice. Abi can receive 200 damage from a boss at most, she has 600 max health by default and spectral cure all cures 600 health. That said, any value above 800 health would be perfectly balanced. And before anyone complains that player tag should be kept for whatever reason, replacing it with extra health would also increase her survivability against hard hitting regular enemies like rooks. That's why I think 900 health is a good value, it provides the extra health window to use spectral cure all without too much precision before Abi dies, and it doesn't make Abi that much stronger against regular mobs where you don't spam spectral cure alls. And honestly why add the moon petals thing? This doesn't make sense to me. This sparked discussions such as "well now we need to be able to add cactus flowers and dark petals on the sisturn too", and it makes sense. Why add just moon petals? Either leave sisturn the way it was or go all in on the new flowers idea. I'd rather leave the sisturn the way it was, but that's just me. Either way, with or without this "more flower effects" idea, player tag should be removed for good.

We are so close to a balanced skill tree. Klei's work so far has been good and they're really listening to the players, but please, instead of adding over complicated solutions to problems that weren't there in the first place, let's just solve some stuff the easy way when possible.

Oh and one final thing, I personally don't have a problem with the ghastly experience elixir, but I don't mind if its concept is revisited. Maybe it should be left this way if Klei goes along with my (non original) 900 health extra level suggestion, so no one can complain that it's hard to keep Abi alive, but I'm fine with whatever Klei decides. Cheers

[EctoPlaza]

1 hour ago, RussoDaFederal said:

Maybe you'd need 2 keys, one for chest and one for head slots, but I'm just throwing ideas because I don't play with a controller. Anyway, moving on,

Oh don't worry, it's quite clear you don't. 

This is a post by someone that suggested various things for controller gameplay; they seem like they actually know what they're talking about:

1 hour ago, RussoDaFederal said:

currently gestalt Abi does 250 damage on a single hit at night, every 4 seconds or so. That's higher dps on a single target compared to default Abi (160 over 4 seconds), but compared to shadow Abi with the murder buff she kinda falls behind. Sure, you could use her potion to increase her damage, but murdering small creatures is so much cheaper than making a super elixir that it makes shadow Abi stronger in 99% of the scenarios. Shouldn't she have as much damage as buffed shadow Abi? That was the original idea, wasn't it? Shadow Abi does 5 attacks in 5 seconds totaling 400 damage, and gestalt Abi does a single 400 damage attack and then has a 5 second cooldown. Why was her damage nerfed alongside her survivability?

Not sure what the intent was initially, but the current one for Gestalt Abigail is having DPS between normal Abigail and Shadow Abigail, while having better survivability than both; in that case, maybe what should be looked at is improving her survivability once more?

[RussoDaFederal]

9 minutes ago, EctoPlaza said:

Oh don't worry, it's quite clear you don't.

No need to be passive aggressive, point taken. I did make it very clear that I don't, I'm glad you got the message.

10 minutes ago, EctoPlaza said:

This is a post by someone that suggested various things for controller gameplay

Thanks for the input! I know I'm far from the best person to talk about controller changes, so thank you unironically for providing the link for a better suggestion.

12 minutes ago, EctoPlaza said:

maybe what should be looked at is improving her survivability once more?

That could work. But I still feel like her damage is really lackluster, so I wouldn't mind if it was increased again. The thing is, the current "make Abi hide when she has low hp and make her survive a boss attack with 1hp" is kinda overly complex. My previous suggestion was to remove the "rile up" command for gestalt Abi, forcing her to stay in her passive state so she can't "solo everything" (which was the previous complaint). If she kept her previous survivability, which was super strong, but Klei removed her ability to attack mobs that Wendy wasn't fighting against, then she would be pretty balanced imo and wouldn't even need a damage increase. And this would also be an easier solution, since her AI is already implemented, Klei would just have to remove the "extra conditions" from the last update.

[EctoPlaza]

3 minutes ago, RussoDaFederal said:

No need to be passive aggressive, point taken. I did make it very clear that I don't, I'm glad you got the message.

I apologize, I'm just tired of seeing the dismissiveness of the controller crowd, as the only person who seemed to be considerate of all types of players in an equal light (the person I linked to) appears to be gone now. 

Nonetheless, I might as well advertise and bump on their behalf, as they had some near ideas I agree with. 

[Debruh]

3 hours ago, EctoPlaza said:

Not sure what the intent was initially, but the current one for Gestalt Abigail is having DPS between normal Abigail and Shadow Abigail, while having better survivability than both; in that case, maybe what should be looked at is improving her survivability once more

I think if her aoe via attack at is removed (which I think it should), then her single target damage matching shadow Abby's would be needed

2 hours ago, EctoPlaza said:

as the only person who seemed to be considerate of all types of players in an equal light (the person I linked to) appears to be gone now. 

Last I saw Fitzee was Nov. 28 (maybe even later at a small conversation discussing the name of attack at,  don't remember). I think he might come around again near the weekend to bump the stuff that he posted. The devs have stated that they do see and read his posts, which is pretty nice. He's pretty nice too.

 

4 hours ago, RussoDaFederal said:

: it still does default Abi damage to all targets in its path. It should instead select a single target, the one closest to what the player pointed at, and attack it with gestalt Abi's attack animation.

Haunt hopefully will be changed to be able target something specific. 

This idea of attack at would work well with something like that.

I think is they do implement this, then not only buff gestalt Abby's damage, but maybe make her easier to access too? Lots of people like the lunar blossom thing, maybe the way you change Abby be right clicking on a lumar blossom filled Sisturn, as to keep the quest and not make gestalt Abby tedious to get.

It just feels weird that not only does gestalt Abby lose AoE, being able to protect Wendy instantly, her being able to pull aggro easily, and begins getting away from Wendy making scare less useful. Not only that and the fact that it's a capstone 3-point skill that is locked behind CC as it's a lunar alignment and is exclusive to the good shadow alignment (the fact that the shadow one was trash at first is kinda hilarious, biggest glow up I have seen. Didn't even turn into something bad, like player tag).

But it's also locked behind tier 1 magic and a full moon..

Even if she still does retain the attack at aoe, it's still pretty inconvenient, and a two point skill.

[DVGMedia]

7 hours ago, Debruh said:

It just feels weird that not only does gestalt Abby lose AoE, being able to protect Wendy instantly, her being able to pull aggro easily, and begins getting away from Wendy making scare less useful.

This is kind of the main reason I dislike gestalt. There is alot more utility to abby than just combat.
And gestalt form kind of throws all that away.

People will say oh you can still get it with commands.  But having a dash aoe on a cooldown doesn't exactly replace the utility of a 3 unit aoe sphere that ticks every second.
Plus gestalt gets so out of postion in regular times its just not possible to really use her.

[Steorra]

16 hours ago, RussoDaFederal said:

At first I suggested increasing Abi's health to 1200, but honestly I think that's a little bit too much and 900 would suffice.

I have an idea for this, what about give Abi two skills to enhance her HP for 300 per skill level just like what BERNIE! has? You know some experienced players like us might need no 600 extra hp (or even 300 is not needed), then we could just save our insight points for other skills. But to those who urgently need more survival of Abi, keep an option here for double survival of Abi but cost 2 points seems more balance.

Willow have 3 available build from her skill trees, two are about her different fire spell, one is about BERNIE! which gave both massive survival enhancement and damage enhancement to them.

I think Wendy should have similar design. To make general abi, lunar abi and shadow abi become 3 potential build options, and divide theses builds feature by survival focusing and DPS focusing. Lunar abi might be a extremely survival option, Shadow might be opposite, and general might be an average option.

I hope the extra HP skill could give different effect to different forms of Abi, not sure how to apply it but it seems far more cool and interesting for me. (An immature idea is the extra HP skill give no effect to shadow abi, give 600 hp to general and 300 to lunar considering lunar have more single target dps than general form.)

If there's have only two potential options (lunar and shadow) for skill tree builds is still a bit few and boring I mean.

[renamoe]

1 hour ago, Steorra said:

I have an idea for this, what about give Abi two skills to enhance her HP for 300 per skill level just like what BERNIE! has? You know some experienced players like us might need no 600 extra hp (or even 300 is not needed), then we could just save our insight points for other skills. But to those who urgently need more survival of Abi, keep an option here for double survival of Abi but cost 2 points seems more balance.

Willow have 3 available build from her skill trees, two are about her different fire spell, one is about BERNIE! which gave both massive survival enhancement and damage enhancement to them.

I think Wendy should have similar design. To make general abi, lunar abi and shadow abi become 3 potential build options, and divide theses builds feature by survival focusing and DPS focusing. Lunar abi might be a extremely survival option, Shadow might be opposite, and general might be an average option.

I hope the extra HP skill could give different effect to different forms of Abi, not sure how to apply it but it seems far more cool and interesting for me. (An immature idea is the extra HP skill give no effect to shadow abi, give 600 hp to general and 300 to lunar considering lunar have more single target dps than general form.)

If there's have only two potential options (lunar and shadow) for skill tree builds is still a bit few and boring I mean.

I agree that the key issue lies in Abigail's survivability, especially in boss fights. Whether it's through adding a player tag (personally, I don't find gathering lunar blossoms too difficult) or increasing her max health—maybe we could call it a "Stronger Abby" skill—I think both options are worth considering.

And you bring up a great point about making this flexibility optional. Players like me, who prioritize Abigail staying alive longer, would really benefit from investing in such skills, while others could save their insight points for different upgrades. This approach would cater to different playstyles and skill levels.

[DVGMedia]

3 hours ago, Steorra said:

I have an idea for this, what about give Abi two skills to enhance her HP for 300 per skill level just like what BERNIE! has? You know some experienced players like us might need no 600 extra hp (or even 300 is not needed), then we could just save our insight points for other skills. But to those who urgently need more survival of Abi, keep an option here for double survival of Abi but cost 2 points seems more balance.

 

This is not ment to be for survival though. Its a utility upgrade that has health aswell.
Its a bigger level for abby. that also boosts her ambient light
you will see having it as a lvl 4 would get way more use outside of just combat

 

 

[RussoDaFederal]

3 hours ago, Steorra said:

I have an idea for this, what about give Abi two skills to enhance her HP for 300 per skill level just like what BERNIE! has?

I don't like this idea because then you'd have to remove another existing skill.

3 hours ago, Steorra said:

I hope the extra HP skill could give different effect to different forms of Abi, not sure how to apply it but it seems far more cool and interesting for me. (An immature idea is the extra HP skill give no effect to shadow abi, give 600 hp to general and 300 to lunar considering lunar have more single target dps than general form.)

That's overcomplicating things. At this point we should make only small changes or else this skill tree will only release in a few months.

3 hours ago, Steorra said:

If there's have only two potential options (lunar and shadow) for skill tree builds is still a bit few and boring I mean.

That's how most skill trees work though. The whole idea of Don't Starve Together (the updates at least) is that there are two major forces at play, shadow and lunar

[Steorra]

7 minutes ago, RussoDaFederal said:

I don't like this idea because then you'd have to remove another existing skill

A simple way to apply it is just give sisturn III an effect with extra 300 Abi HP bonus, add sisturn IV for another 300.

 

8 minutes ago, RussoDaFederal said:

That's overcomplicating things. At this point we should make only small changes or else this skill tree will only release in a few months.

I think this might be easier than other potential change options. Though it could be a bit complex I admit.

But I don't think simply amount changes could be enough for current version tree for most Wendy players. Some complex adjustments should comes later, even after the tree goes live.

10 minutes ago, RussoDaFederal said:

That's how most skill trees work though. The whole idea of Don't Starve Together (the updates at least) is that there are two major forces at play, shadow and lunar

No, Woodies has three form focusing build for different playstyle. Willow have 2 affinity spell and BERNIE! builds and as 3 builds in the end. This is not a reasonable argument to simply define that "Wendy should only has two affinity build".

12 minutes ago, RussoDaFederal said:

That's overcomplicating things

And it seems must be complex since Shadow Abi and Cursed Vex need adjustment as well. Or they might be OP for pre-rift but at the same time be weird for post-rift.

1. Survival skill should only affect to general and lunar abi. Or Shadow Abi or Cursed Vex should suffer extra damage taken. Tbh I think 300 extra HP for lunar and Shadow but 600 extra HP for general Abi could be fair in this point.

2. Cursed Vex has a strange design which seems to make this elixir become endgame only, but at the same time it has high efficiency for pre-rift battle but low efficiency for endgame. It does need some "complex" adjustment before it goes live.

I know dreadstone could be achieved at the middle point of pre and post rift. But it is still unreasonable.

Someone already revealed that how WARBIS gears and Dreadstone gears were embarrassing when they were only valuable for a short period of yhe game. Cursed Vex should not be patch out with same issue. See reference - 

 

Shadow Abi is fine at the current stage imo, someone attended to discussing Shadow form balance but tbh the main broken point they were focusing is about the Shadow affinity elixir which named Cursed Vex, I guess.

Though any convenience improvement for Shadow Abi is welcome for me.

19 minutes ago, Steorra said:

I think 300 extra HP for lunar and Shadow but 600 extra HP for general Abi could be fair in this point.

And if the final decision was this, it could simply make Sisturn III have a divided effect for affinity form Abi and general Abi, then no need to add Sisturn IV.

[EctoPlaza]

Here are two reality checks:

1) The only way a new skill will be added is if it's either a skill seperate from everything else (like Vengeful Ghost) or a tier-3 Graves skill; either one would be added only to make the center of the skilltree layout more symmetrical. In other words, it's very unlikely they'll add any more skills to the side branches, as it'd mess with what seems to be the finalized version of the skilltree layout. 

2) This is related to what I said above, but basically, it's unrealistic to expect too drastic of changes to existing skills, as that would result in yet another rework of Wendy's skilltree (this would be what, her fourth one?). The only skill that I see being reworked is Blessed Sisturn III (again), given how controversial it's been. 

[Steorra]

11 minutes ago, EctoPlaza said:

(like Vengeful Ghost)

 

12 minutes ago, EctoPlaza said:

to make the center of the skilltree layout more symmetrical.

In other words, "luckily we have a completely useless filler skill called as Vengeful Ghost, we could simply remove it and add one new skill if it's needed"

Though this is a joke from the very original intention, but I personally disagree that to let a individual filler skill goes live - it need rework, buff, or simply remove for other more meaningful skills.

[EctoPlaza]

13 minutes ago, Steorra said:

 

In other words, "luckily we have a completely useless filler skill called as Vengeful Ghost, we could simply remove it and add one new skill if it's needed"

Though this is a joke from the very original intention, but I personally disagree that to let a individual filler skill goes live - it need rework, buff, or simply remove for other more meaningful skills.

I fail to see how your hyperfixation on Vengeful Ghost gives you an excuse to ignore everything else I've said. 

Anyway, this theoretical new skill I mentioned doesn't have to be as situational as Vengeful Ghost; maybe it could be something fun or offer a different playstyle. I'm personally a fan of this person's suggestion:

[SilverSpoon]

22 hours ago, RussoDaFederal said:

Player tag: I think the rest of the forum already made it very clear how the blessed sisturn 3 skill is broken. I'm not gonna dwell on this topic because it's been discussed too many times, but doubling the efficiency of Wendy's strongest elixir is pretty bonkers. And no, the solution shouldn't be nerfing the elixir or adding convoluted conditions for this to work, just replace the player tag by something else, i.e. an extra level.

Do we have to wait an additional 1.5 minutes to get that extra level of HP? If so, I couln't agree. "Just waiting" gives players most high level streess for as gameplay. In the worst case scenario, as punishment for a player, especially a casual player, letting Abigail die, all other players must wait.

I would only agree with a max HP increase in exchange for a player tag if it didn't require players to wait or spend extra resources. It should Abigail get the extra HP when just fills sisturn with flowers.

Another thing I want to clarify is that blessed sisturn 3 skill is "broken" (To be honest, I still don't understand why just Abigail is very tough is "broken") only if you spam spectral cure all cures. If you spam Treeguard idle with Woodie's Treeguard Feller II, you can even kill bosses. So Treeguard Feller II is "broken"? People on the forums didn't think so for a year and a half.

22 hours ago, RussoDaFederal said:

At first I suggested increasing Abi's health to 1200, but honestly I think that's a little bit too much and 900 would suffice.

Is there any evidence or data that 900 is enough? considering that back when it was 1200, people said it wasn't enough, probably 900 is too low.

[Yifei_]

42 minutes ago, SilverSpoon said:

Another thing I want to clarify is that blessed sisturn 3 skill is "broken" (To be honest, I still don't understand why just Abigail is very tough is "broken") only if you spam spectral cure all cures. If you spam Treeguard idle with Woodie's Treeguard Feller II, you can even kill bosses. So Treeguard Feller II is "broken"? People on the forums didn't think so for a year and a half.

I agree with you. For me, the "player tag" might be broken because it doesn't work at all on certain bosses, like CC and AG, but it definitely isn't because the 50% damage reduction is overpowered. As for the whole DST, there are too many ways to "spam" resources to fight bosses, so I don't think "spamming" spectral cure-all would make Wendy broken.

[Steorra]

28 minutes ago, Yifei_ said:

I agree with you. For me, the "player tag" might be broken because it doesn't work at all on certain bosses, like CC and AG, but it definitely isn't because the 50% damage reduction is overpowered. 

This is same for me. 

 

29 minutes ago, Yifei_ said:

As for the whole DST, there are too many ways to "spam" resources to fight bosses, so I don't think "spamming" spectral cure-all would make Wendy broken.

We might have some difference here since I just prefer to use no consumable items in boss fightings except weapon it self. But I agree with your logic. I personally don't know why CureAll spamming would be broken when ppls just ignoring how dumplings and dragon fruit pies working as a same result.

[RussoDaFederal]

1 hour ago, SilverSpoon said:

only if you spam spectral cure all cures

...that's the whole point. Wait, let me get this straight, so a lot of people have started heated discussions about player tag on the forum because they didn't understand that it only becomes broken if you use a spectral cure all? Spectral cure all is somewhat cheap, why would you not use it?

1 hour ago, SilverSpoon said:

Is there any evidence or data that 900 is enough? considering that back when it was 1200, people said it wasn't enough, probably 900 is too low.

I literally just explained that. It's an easy enough math. But fine, I'll get into more detail. Anything past 900 is just filler because considering the highest damage possible against Abigail (200) she would resist a single extra hit if she had 800 health (600 + 200). So a little bit higher than 800 is pretty good, she takes 2 extra hits against hard hitting enemies. Could be 801, but 900 is more round. 1200 means she takes 3 extra hits to die against hard hitting stuff, 1 more than 900, but against smaller enemies (the majority of the game) she'd be borderline invincible. 300 extra HP instead of 600 is fine against the hardest hitting bosses (which do 200 damage) and it doesn't make Abigail impervious to regular enemies that do less than 50 damage. 1200 health Abigail can solo a wave of cave worms on her own.

1 hour ago, SilverSpoon said:

If you spam Treeguard idle with Woodie's Treeguard Feller II, you can even kill bosses

Yes, the same way you can "hire" a lot of rabbits, cave lobsters, summon treeguards on your own even without Woodie, not to mention merms and spiders if you're playing Wurt or Webber. Your point is...?

1 hour ago, SilverSpoon said:

I would only agree with a max HP increase in exchange for a player tag if it didn't require players to wait or spend extra resources. It should Abigail get the extra HP when just fills sisturn with flowers.

Sure, increase her HP by 300 while there are flowers in the sisturn. That works. My main point is that the extra HP should be 300 and it should be "true" HP and not temporary HP (until the flowers rot, I mean). And use regular flower petals, not lune blossoms.

[Yifei_]

20 minutes ago, RussoDaFederal said:

Yes, the same way you can "hire" a lot of rabbits, cave lobsters, summon treeguards on your own even without Woodie, not to mention merms and spiders if you're playing Wurt or Webber. Your point is...?

Yeah, all characters can spam cave lobsters. Woodie can spam treeguards, Wurt can spam merms, Webber can spam spiders. On top of that, Willow can spam Ethereal Ember, Maxwell can spam Codex Umbra, Wickerbottom can spam books, and so on... I don't understand why only Wendy "spamming" spectral cure-all is being targeted.

[Debruh]

1 hour ago, Yifei_ said:

Yeah, all characters can spam cave lobsters. Woodie can spam treeguards, Wurt can spam merms, Webber can spam spiders. On top of that, Willow can spam Ethereal Ember, Maxwell can spam Codex Umbra, Wickerbottom can spam books, and so on... I don't understand why only Wendy "spamming" spectral cure-all is being targeted.

Personally, I hate it cause

1) Invalidates other skills. Skills that were made so that Abby is more survivable such as team spirit and gestalt Abby, are kinda useless now with player tag. Why use them when you can just spam cure-all with player tag.

2) Kinda makes you ignore Abby. You just put cure-all. Fights usually required positioning and dodging early to be able to protect Abby from damage.

People wanted more fault tolerance, but did want to still fight alongside Abby. Not just put cure-all and go with it.

3) Furthurs the gap between cure-all and the other elixirs even more.

Spoiler

1How do I get rid of this?

Spoiler

 

 

[SilverSpoon]

1 hour ago, RussoDaFederal said:

...that's the whole point. Wait, let me get this straight, so a lot of people have started heated discussions about player tag on the forum because they didn't understand that it only becomes broken if you use a spectral cure all? Spectral cure all is somewhat cheap, why would you not use it?

"Spectral cure all is somewhat cheap". So pierogi or dragon pie, Treeguard idle, Wurt's merms, and Gunpowder are Okey because they are not somewhat cheap, but Spectral cure all is somewhat cheap, So Spectral cure all spam +  blessed sisturn 3 is not okey? I don't think so.

This is a game where you can avoid dying, or even kill bosses, if you gather a lot of resources, so there's no need to deal with Spectral cure all spam + blessed sisturn 3 specifically, especially if it allow just "Abigail is less likely to die".

Moreover, Spectral cure all is somewhat cheap only if you spend 3+4(+3 for blessed sisturn 3) skill points on elixir related skills and give up some of Wendy's other more interesting skills.

1 hour ago, RussoDaFederal said:

I literally just explained that. It's an easy enough math. But fine, I'll get into more detail. Anything past 900 is just filler because considering the highest damage possible against Abigail (200) she would resist a single extra hit if she had 800 health (600 + 200). So a little bit higher than 800 is pretty good, she takes 2 extra hits against hard hitting enemies.

I don't know if 2 extra hits or 3 extra hits against the boss is appropriate. But when it was 1200, people said it wasn't enough.

1 hour ago, RussoDaFederal said:

but against smaller enemies (the majority of the game) she'd be borderline invincible. 300 extra HP instead of 600 is fine against the hardest hitting bosses (which do 200 damage) and it doesn't make Abigail impervious to regular enemies that do less than 50 damage. 1200 health Abigail can solo a wave of cave worms on her own.

That's one of the reasons I support the player tag. Increase max HP could make Abigail too strong against normal mobs.

Also, about the wave of cave worms, Could you tell me any more information, like on the number of worms, daytime, and the elixir used?

1 hour ago, RussoDaFederal said:

Yes, the same way you can "hire" a lot of rabbits, cave lobsters, summon treeguards on your own even without Woodie, not to mention merms and spiders if you're playing Wurt or Webber. Your point is...?

So Player tag is not broken. You're welcome.

1 hour ago, RussoDaFederal said:

Sure, increase her HP by 300 while there are flowers in the sisturn. That works. My main point is that the extra HP should be 300 and it should be "true" HP and not temporary HP (until the flowers rot, I mean). And use regular flower petals, not lune blossoms.

To be honest... if there was no waiting time or spending extra resource, I personally think a max HP 900 would be okay. I don't know if other players will be satisfied with it.

[Dingle]

Most players would prefer Sisturn 3 to raise Abby's HP to 900, rather than player tag. Especially if they know how few bosses player tag is useful for.

Spoilers: In testing, Player tag only works on a handful of bosses that are considered tough. This is horrible. On the bosses it works on, you absolutely triviaize them with cure alls. This is also horrible.

So if you want to keep player tag as it is, you're probably going to regret it.

7 minutes ago, SilverSpoon said:

"Spectral cure all is somewhat cheap". So pierogi or dragon pie, Treeguard idle, Wurt's merms, and Gunpowder are Okey because they are not somewhat cheap, but Spectral cure all is somewhat cheap, So Spectral cure all spam +  blessed sisturn 3 is not okey? I don't think so.

This is a game where you can avoid dying, or even kill bosses, if you gather a lot of resources, so there's no need to deal with Spectral cure all spam + blessed sisturn 3 specifically, especially if it allow just "Abigail is less likely to die".

Moreover, Spectral cure all is somewhat cheap only if you spend 3+4(+3 for blessed sisturn 3) skill points on elixir related skills and give up some of Wendy's other more interesting skills.

I don't know if 2 extra hits or 3 extra hits against the boss is appropriate. But when it was 1200, people said it wasn't enough.

That's one of the reasons I support the player tag. Increase max HP could make Abigail too strong against normal mobs.

Also, about the wave of cave worms, Could you tell me any more information, like on the number of worms, daytime, and the elixir used?

So Player tag is not broken. You're welcome.

To be honest... if there was no waiting time or spending extra resource, I personally think a max HP 900 would be okay. I don't know if other players will be satisfied with it.

Oh, and special shout out to the "but cure alls are expensive" argument. I really hope this is a disingenuous argument, and people know better at this point.

Cure alls are dirt cheap now thanks to pipspooks 3. You can get 20 mourning glories every 2-3 minutes now. This gives more than enough cure alls to make abby immortal during fuelweaver.

[Steorra]

1 hour ago, RussoDaFederal said:

1200 health Abigail can solo a wave of cave worms on her own.

If you were drawing those worms' aggro and try to make their attack timing become same when they hitting Abi, then it is not "solo"

If not, I would doubt it if without Shadow Abi activated.

If this conclusion is for Shadow Abi, then, why should she not?

[Debruh]

Spoiler

7 minutes ago, SilverSpoon said:

Well, I think that was too personal and childish...

  Reveal hidden contents

I was soooo sad to be told like this *cry emoji*

 

Oh, you were the one that hid it? I thought that the system automatically flagged it down.

Also, considering his other posts regarding Lardee, that was him admonishing/insulting Lardee, not you. Just telling you to not interact with Lardee.

 

[Steorra]

1 hour ago, RussoDaFederal said:

Yes, the same way you can "hire" a lot of rabbits, cave lobsters, summon treeguards on your own even without Woodie

This was already be falsified. Mob followers have their own collision, which caused rabbits and cave lobsters become useless when facing most bosses. But tree guards not.

No need to say tree guards is easy way to erase misery toad and AFW. Could you give any video evidence to prove that rabbits and lobsters did same things?