A (hopefully) easy and final adjustment for Wendy

[SilverSpoon]

Spoiler

33 minutes ago, Debruh said:

Oh, you were the one that hid it? I thought that the system automatically flagged it down.

Also, considering his other posts regarding Lardee, that was him admonishing/insulting Lardee, not you. Just telling you to not interact with Lardee.

I'm sorry, I hid everything about that because I'm super embarrassed and I super regret posting those, It was all my fault for I'm super stupid and my English skill is super suck. I'm so sorry to everyone. Especially so SORRY to Fitzee and Debruh.

Oh God... sometimes I really hate myself for being myself.

 

[Steorra]

40 minutes ago, SilverSpoon said:

To be honest... if there was no waiting time or spending extra resource, I personally think a max HP 900 would be okay. I don't know if other players will be satisfied with it

I would satisfied personally since even Abi have no extra HP I could still do same thing when Abi have. But I don't think it is reasonable for others if there's no option for 1200 HP.

To change player tag into 1200 hp is already a huge nerf to cure-all and it is enough. To control it at 900 is just an overturned like what happened to Gestalt Abi.

If 600 shield can't satisfy those people who urgently need Abi's survival enhancement before, why we don't try to make the 600 shield become more convenient to achieve before but just rework it into player tag? It obviously 300 extra HP is not enough for some players. 

[Debruh]

Spoiler

4 minutes ago, SilverSpoon said:

I'm sorry, I hid everything about that because I'm super embarrassed and I super regret posting those, It was all my fault for I'm super stupid. I'm so sorry to everyone.

Oh God... sometimes I really hate myself for being myself.

It's okay, dude. We all make rash decisions in emotion. Sorry for not removing the stuff earlier, after I found that you hid it yourself, but I have removed them now.

 

[Steorra]

19 minutes ago, SilverSpoon said:

Oh God... sometimes I really hate myself for being myself.

Spoiler

I guess this was a joke or something but I do hope you could be fine in even some hard times... I know this might be off topic and weird but some experience told me that sometimes some people just attend to hide their true emotions under a "joke". Whether you're fine or not, hoping you have a good dream today...

 

Spoiler

Omg I don't know how to delete spoiler when I use my phone, sorry

38 minutes ago, Dingle said:

Most players would prefer Sisturn 3 to raise Abby's HP to 900

Not true. Most players I communicated and listened were thinking that 1200 is a more reasonable amount for them but not 900.

 

38 minutes ago, Dingle said:

Cure alls are dirt cheap now thanks to pipspooks 3. You can get 20 mourning glories every 2-3 minutes now. This gives more than enough cure alls to make abby immortal during fuelweaver.

SilverSpoons already clarified that "they are not cheap because you have to use 4 skill points to make it "cheap", but 4 skill points are expensive, they are not cheap.

Though I know it might be debatable if we considering characters switching - then good, some design which encourages character switching like this way is bad design, rework needed confirmed.

[SilverSpoon]

43 minutes ago, Dingle said:

Oh, and special shout out to the "but cure alls are expensive" argument. I really hope this is a disingenuous argument, and people know better at this point.

Cure alls are dirt cheap now thanks to pipspooks 3. You can get 20 mourning glories every 2-3 minutes now. This gives more than enough cure alls to make abby immortal during fuelweaver.

It doesn't matter you get how many mourning glories every minute. I wanted to say that it's not good to judge "this is OK but this is OP" on someone’s level.

Also, Fuelweaver shouldn't be brought up for talking about how good defense is. I think his attack power itself is about the same as middle-large Tree Guard.

 

Spoiler

7 minutes ago, Steorra said:

I guess this was a joke or something but I do hope you could be fine in even some hard times... I know this might be off topic and weird but some experience told me that sometimes some people just attend to hide their true emotions under a "joke". Whether you're fine or not, hoping you have a good dream today...

Thank you your kindness. You haven't to worry about my real life and mental, I know I have many bad points, but I also know I have many good points.

I'm fine, just not fine right now... This series of posts will definitely be number one on the "Most Embarrassing Things I've Done in 2025".

 

[RussoDaFederal]

53 minutes ago, SilverSpoon said:

To be honest... if there was no waiting time or spending extra resource, I personally think a max HP 900 would be okay. I don't know if other players will be satisfied with it.

37 minutes ago, Dingle said:

Most players would prefer Sisturn 3 to raise Abby's HP to 900, rather than player tag. Especially if they know how few bosses player tag is useful for.

900 HP seems to be what "both sides" agree on. I'm not trying to divide the community or anything but it's clear that for the past few months there were "two sides" regarding Wendy's skill tree, especially since Klei added player tag to Abigail. All I'm trying to do is finding a middle ground.

24 minutes ago, Steorra said:

This was already be falsified. Mob followers have their own collision, which caused rabbits and cave lobsters become useless when facing most bosses. But tree guards not.

And every character can summon tree guards too, just not as easily as Woodie. My point stands.

1 hour ago, Yifei_ said:

Yeah, all characters can spam cave lobsters. Woodie can spam treeguards, Wurt can spam merms, Webber can spam spiders. On top of that, Willow can spam Ethereal Ember, Maxwell can spam Codex Umbra, Wickerbottom can spam books, and so on... I don't understand why only Wendy "spamming" spectral cure-all is being targeted.

Comparing "spamming an item" to "spamming followers" is either naive or misleading. They're completely different.

Also, let's please not start this discussion again. Is Wendy too strong, is Abigail too tanky, we've been through this. By now it's pretty clear where Wendy and Abi stand, and we all want a balanced experience in Don't Starve. We could argue all day about the thousands of strategies and exploits for killing bosses, but using that as an argument to why Wendy should be stronger is misleading. Please, just stop. This is not what this post is for. I've already explained why 900 HP is the best solution to blessed sisturn 3, and even the portion of the forum that believes player tag is not broken agrees that there are issues with it. 900 HP seems to be what most people agree on, and a few people think 1200 is better. Let's not stick to the "is player tag broken" discussion, we're past that point. This also overshadows other important discussions like proper controller support, that I still have no idea how to enhance the user experience on the console.

[Steorra]

4 minutes ago, RussoDaFederal said:

900 HP seems to be what "both sides" agree on

You might start a simple poll to do a survey with 3 options, 

1. Keep current sisturn III unchanged 

2. Change it into 300 extra HP for Abi defaultly

3. Change it into 600 extra HP for Abi defaultly 

 

I don't think your word is truth. We still have at least 2 days until next update. I personally recommend that to start this poll afap.

[EctoPlaza]

2 minutes ago, RussoDaFederal said:

This also overshadows other important discussions like proper controller support, that I still have no idea how to enhance the user experience on the console.

Thank you. 

Fitzee seemed to be the only one who suggested anything about it, so I hope Klei considers what they shared eventually. 

[Steorra]

13 minutes ago, RussoDaFederal said:

All I'm trying to do is finding a middle ground

Im attend to do sAme thing. I'm glad that you were aiming to considering most players as most as possible.

13 minutes ago, RussoDaFederal said:

900 HP seems to be what "both sides" agree on.

I guess there's a factor which might cause this conclusion for you - I was saw a thread of you which posted about 10 days ago and the thread is for further discussion of the middle ground. And some members of our forum said that they prefer 900 rather than 1200. But there's a hidden truth is some other members of our forum is inactivated in that period, I hope you could reconsider this factor. Though, a simple poll is a most easier way to clarify ehat the truth is.

13 minutes ago, RussoDaFederal said:

And every character can summon tree guards too, just not as easily as Woodie. My point stands.

No. Woodie could use tree guards to rush AFW in day 20, others can't even after day 1000.

[RussoDaFederal]

1 minute ago, Steorra said:

You might start a simple poll to do a survey with 3 options

I'm not gonna start a poll. All polls so far were absolutely inflated and prove nothing of how the playerbase and the forum actually feels. There was this one user, Jakepeng I believe, that even made fun of that. It's obvious that the polls are rigged, so why bother. I hope Klei reads through actual discussions and arguments, not just rigged numbers on a poll.

4 minutes ago, Steorra said:

I don't think your word is truth

I'm not the holder of absolute truth and never claimed to be. I have my opinions and I have no problem with discussing them politely. I haven't lied anywhere though. You can call me biased all you want, but not dishonest. I don't think you're accusing me of that though, maybe it was just a mistranslation.

[Steorra]

5 minutes ago, RussoDaFederal said:

I'm not gonna start a poll. All polls so far were absolutely inflated and prove nothing of how the playerbase and the forum actually feels. There was this one user, Jakepeng I believe, that even made fun of that. It's obvious that the polls are rigged, so why bother. I hope Klei reads through actual discussions and arguments, not just rigged numbers on a poll.

Poll (on forum) is far more actual than discussion (on forum), since a poll give lesser or even no language barrier than discussion. This is a simple logic. If you don't want to do the poll I'm glad to do it later in both here and other forum.

7 minutes ago, RussoDaFederal said:

I'm not the holder of absolute truth and never claimed to be. I have my opinions and I have no problem with discussing them politely. I haven't lied anywhere though. You can call me biased all you want, but not dishonest. I don't think you're accusing me of that though, maybe it was just a mistranslation.

My original intention is not accusing but just doubt. I'm sorry if my poor language expression brings misunderstanding for you. A question I have might be off topic to the thread - what words could be use in this scenario to express doubts but not accusing attention in this scenario? I would like to learn more, and thank you whether if you're glad to answer my personal question or not.

[Dingle]

If it was 1200 of real health, it would be a no brainer. 900 would at least make me consider sometimes not getting it. 600 extra fake health that cant be healed might work too, but people seemed to hate that and it was changed before I was able to try it out.

"4 skill points for a massive power increase is expensive" is always funny to me. What were the 4 points again, pipspook 3 plus graves 1?

I found out graves 1 is a pretty optional convenience, you get so many mourning glories from pipspook 3 that you end up not having to do the quest much, anyway.

"Let's do a poll to see if we should buff Wendy more" is also really funny, and has been since start of beta.

[SilverSpoon]

39 minutes ago, RussoDaFederal said:

"both sides" agree on

I'm not representative any side. Even people on my side may disagree with my opinions.

39 minutes ago, RussoDaFederal said:

Also, let's please not start this discussion again. Is Wendy too strong, is Abigail too tanky, we've been through this. By now it's pretty clear where Wendy and Abi stand, and we all want a balanced experience in Don't Starve. We could argue all day about the thousands of strategies and exploits for killing bosses, but using that as an argument to why Wendy should be stronger is misleading. Please, just stop. This is not what this post is for. I've already explained why 900 HP is the best solution to blessed sisturn 3, and even the portion of the forum that believes player tag is not broken agrees that there are issues with it. 900 HP seems to be what most people agree on, and a few people think 1200 is better. Let's not stick to the "is player tag broken" discussion, we're past that point. This also overshadows other important discussions like proper controller support, that I still have no idea how to enhance the user experience on the console.

If that's what you want, then cullent abigail allow people who need a tougher Abigail can get it, and people who don't want it can get an extra 3~ skill tree points by not taking that skill, so it's already win-win. 
As long as you assertion on to make Max HP instead of Player Tag, people who don't want it will continue to oppose it. Trying to prevent that is not wholesome for argument.

[Steorra]

18 minutes ago, Dingle said:

If it was 1200 of real health, it would be a no brainer

(I'm sorry was misunderstood something before then just edited to delete it.)

Already a potential method to balance it was provided, which to add Sisturn IV and change III and IV for same 300 HP for Abi. 

And if adding skill would make the aesthetic of Wendy skill tree become worse, just give 300 hp effect to sisturn II and other 300 with other brand new effect to sisturn III is another option I guess

Or 200 hp from sisturn II with its original effect and 400 from sisturn III with no other effect. This could just become a amount issue.

[Dingle]

10 minutes ago, Steorra said:

(I'm sorry was misunderstood something before then just edited to delete it.)

Already a potential method to balance it was provided, which to add Sisturn IV and change III and IV for same 300 HP for Abi. 

And if adding skill would make the aesthetic of Wendy skill tree become worse, just give 300 hp effect to sisturn II and other 300 with other brand new effect to sisturn III is another option I guess

I like the Sisturn IV idea, good compromise. I missed that if it was mentioned before.

She really needs her skill tree lines extended a bit more imo. They consolidated things so much that the tree is very freeform right now.

I also like the idea of a new Graves 3 making decorated graves produce mourning glory, for this reason.

[RussoDaFederal]

25 minutes ago, Steorra said:

My original intention is not accusing but just doubt. I'm sorry if my poor language expression brings misunderstanding for you. A question I have might be off topic to the thread - what words could be use in this scenario to express doubts but not accusing attention in this scenario? I would like to learn more, and thank you whether if you're glad to answer my personal question or not.

"Truth" out of context is kind of a heavy word. You said "I don't think your word is truth", which is phrased in an uncommon way that indicates you're using a translator, that's why I took no offense from it. But phrased like that, "your word is truth", it implies that I've said something that is an absolute truth, or at least that I claimed was an absolute truth, almost in a biblical/religious way. You're free to doubt and fact check me, but what exactly is it that you're doubting? See, that's why I always say that we need to be very clear and specific when talking, because some words get lost in the translation and sometimes people can get the wrong idea. There's no easy solution for that though, and the best course of action would be to describe very clearly, objectively and carefully what you mean in future posts

[Steorra]

10 minutes ago, RussoDaFederal said:

which is phrased in an uncommon way that indicates you're using a translator

I rarely use translator for expressions in replies tbh, 

11 minutes ago, RussoDaFederal said:

almost in a biblical/religious way.

This is strange for me. If to discuss "truth" might being high correlation to biblical/religious, then is that hint that "truth" is always far from secular life?

I was always use "truth" as an opposition of "not true" and I believe that this is not a language issue, but seems more like religion issue or something, i guess? 

[RussoDaFederal]

Just now, Steorra said:

This is strange for me. If to discuss "truth" might being high correlation to biblical/religious, then is that hint that "truth" is always far from secular life?

I was always use "truth" as an opposition of "not true" and I believe that this is not a language issue, but seems more like religion issue or something, i guess?

It's more about the way you said it and not the content itself. Truth means something is true, and it's not necessarily related to religion, I just found it similar to how preachers will say stuff like "you will find truth in the word of god" or whatever. Maybe it's because it's more common to hear "true" than "truth". But that's going completely off topic, let's not dwell on that. Feel free to send me a message if you're still curious about language stuff

[Echsrick]

i think 900 health for ghost seems good, like its enought to be able to take hits, if you want a more tanky follower maybe try out willow

[congrongfuguo]

haha I really don't understand difference between 900 and 1200.If you people can't convince each other，how about considering my approach：Wendy and Abigail use team spirit to avoid harm together

I have been promoting it all along~

[Echsrick]

22 minutes ago, congrongfuguo said:

haha I really don't understand difference between 900 and 1200.If you people can't convince each other，how about considering my approach：Wendy and Abigail use team spirit to avoid harm together

I have been promoting it all along~

avoiding harm in what kind of way? not gettin hit is pretty much not takin damage

[congrongfuguo]

4 minutes ago, Echsrick said:

avoiding harm in what kind of way? not gettin hit is pretty much not takin damage

The relevant content can be found in the latter half of the article ↑
I designed two action modes to simultaneously control Wendy and Abigail as a team spirit ability.
This is a different strategy from Willow's Bear. Wendy is weak, Abigail is fragile, so I think using a more flexible combat style is a more attractive approach

[SilverSpoon]

1 hour ago, Echsrick said:

if you want a more tanky follower maybe try out willow

1200 HP does not make Abigail a tank. Abigail's health maintenance is still limited to 20/sec of Spectral Cure-All, so the difference between 900-1200 simply affects how many mistake Abigail can take before she dies. So whether Abigail is at 900 or 1200 health, if she tanks an enemy who give too much damage to keep up with the Spectral Cure-All's healing, she will die and the between difference will be only a few seconds at most.

[Echsrick]

2 minutes ago, congrongfuguo said:

The relevant content can be found in the latter half of the article ↑
I designed two action modes to simultaneously control

 

Wendy and Abigail as a team spirit ability.
This is a different strategy from Willow's Bear. Wendy is weak, Abigail is fragile, so I think using a more flexible combat style is a more attractive approach

i dont think this would work out, have you considered that maybe that was the point? of not having full on controll? i mean the skill tree allready gives you commands to use to controll abigal so why have you just able to manualy just use movemend to move the ghost around?

alsol in what way is wendy considered "weak" because.....she is allready one of the strongest character in the game even without the skill tree


 

3 minutes ago, SilverSpoon said:

1200 HP does not make Abigail a tank. Abigail's health maintenance is still limited to 20/sec of Spectral Cure-All, so the difference between 900-1200 simply affects how many mistake Abigail can take before she dies. So whether Abigail is at 900 or 1200 health, if she tanks an enemy who give too much damage to keep up with the Spectral Cure-All's healing, she will die and the between difference will be only a few seconds at most.

maybe that is the point, maaybe the ghost does not need the exessive amount of extra health for pretty much free aswell as the healing that can be gotten easy enought

[congrongfuguo]

54 minutes ago, Echsrick said:

我不认为这会成功，你有没有想过也许这才是重点？没有完全的控制权？我的意思是技能树已经给了你控制幽灵的命令，那么为什么你只能手动使用移动来移动幽灵呢？

温蒂在什么方面被认为是“弱”的，因为.....即使没有技能树，她也已经是游戏中最强的角色之一


 

也许这就是问题的关键，也许鬼魂不需要额外的额外的健康，也不需要足够容易的治疗

I can answer these two questions from the perspective of stories of DST：

 

1.Regarding full on control：In my opinion, the mirror game is just the tacit cooperation between sisters(You didn't directly manipulate Abigail. You just told her how to cooperate, just like telling her to be angry or calm.)       Swapping positions have a more temporary impact.

I don't require all skills to exist simultaneously. I just feel that compared to the current team spirit, this approach is more like teamwork.

2.What I mean by Wendy being weak is that Wendy has only 0.75 attack power——In the story, she is just a little girl. So She should fight with Abigail in a smarter way.

 

As for the issue of Wendy's strength and weakness in the game, I don't know if this approach is more helpful for Wendy compared to extra life or player tag. This is just another strategy.