Blessed sisturn should just give abby an extra level.

[DVGMedia]

Currently right now blessed sisturn 3 is causing a split in the player base
Because players are trying to determine wether or not potion healing should be nerfed with the player tag.

This should not even be a thing that should be discussed because that causes Descrepencies in the consistency of playing wendy and abby.

Primarially because Player tag only affect certain creatures as not all of them have bonus damage against mobs.

Changing how potions works on a player tag abby would only cause problems

This is why I advocate for having blessed sisturn 3 to just give abigail a new level when lunar blossoms are inserted vs giving abby the player tag.
This new level would boost abigails max hp to 1200 and increase her light radius.

This solves many of the problems that player tag has because  no longer is abby gaining bonus healing from her potions.
But she still has the durabilty she would have if she would enter a bossfight with the player tag.

I don't think we should use the player tag as a way to make changes to things
since most players don't know they take half damage from certain bosses.
more so they just think mobs take double and that player damage is the true damage.

So giving abigail more hp would make her more consistent across all boards while avoiding the pitfall that his healing with armor.


 

[Whiza]

I wish you luck on your journey! ^ v ^ b

Me personally, I'm just gonna avoid talking about Blessed Sisturn III from now on; no one will agree with each other, and major controversy ensues every time it's brought up. X _ X

I'm going to spend my efforts on improving other aspects of the skilltree that I'm more knowledgeable about, like the Team Spirit branch, QOL for Shadow Abigail, etc.

[WenericMember]

Not going to extend the conversation into this thread, but Klei specifically implemented the player tag to avoid the skill buffing Abigail's capacity against bosses:

"This has several positive effects. It kind of gives Abigail double health (same as before) but only vs bosses, which is where the real need was. Also,  it is health that can be healed on site, unlike the previous buff. Again, this only affects boss fights and not against regular mobs."

Level 4 Abigail would explicitly go against the design intent of the tree.

Wendy was already given tools to deal with greater hordes through other skills, such as planar defense for rift hordes, the terrorise command, and Shadow Abigail's additional damage. A level 4 Abigail creates the same issues encountered by the current player tag, just in different areas.

Finally, Player tag is much more relevant to the whole point of Wendy's character than a level 4, as do the lunar petals.

[Siren11]

7 minutes ago, DVGMedia said:

Primarially because Player tag only affect certain creatures as not all of them have bonus damage against mobs.
 

This is the most frustrating thing to me about player vs. mob damage. I haven’t done very much testing bc I’ve been so busy, but I’m also just really confused about how it works.

I do know that the “player tag” only works on bosses though, which I think could cause an issue with nerfing healing potions in conjunction with Blessed Sisturn III. If I wanted to have the skill active for a boss fight but ran into another situation where I would need potions (frog rain, for example), I might be in trouble. And that’s without getting into whether Abby is even taking less damage in the boss fight I’m trying to do.

Changing the skill to add extra level(s) just seems like the easier option. I’d imagine it would also be easier for newer players to understand and use, so people who really need the skill would likely benefit more.

[DVGMedia]

4 minutes ago, Siren11 said:

Changing the skill to add extra level(s) just seems like the easier option. I’d imagine it would also be easier for newer players to understand and use, so people who really need the skill would likely benefit more.

And thats the whole reason why im arguing it. Because it would be much easier for players to understand.
Some would argue that Oh you can just take the petals out and be fine.
But if you need to make an argument like that that idea is already on a sinking ship.

having a level 4 just makes everything consistent. And would help players that are not as savey 

12 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

Level 4 Abigail would explicitly go against the design intent of the tree.

Well Klei has made alot of decisions for wendy they thought were good but then realized it caused more trouble than it was worth.
So there is always a possibility of change.

[Yifei_]

7 minutes ago, Siren11 said:

I do know that the “player tag” only works on bosses though, which I think could cause an issue with nerfing healing potions in conjunction with Blessed Sisturn III.

The "player tag" damage reduction is somewhat peculiar; it provides a 50% damage reduction against many bosses, but there is also a significant portion that has either higher or lower damage reduction.

[Bumber64]

33 minutes ago, DVGMedia said:

more so they just think mobs take double and that player damage is the true damage.

Kind of a distinction without a difference.

Players get armor, though, which further complicates things. (Technically certain mobs can wear helmets, but they don't last long enough.)

On to the actual issue, the problem is that extra health is an extra boost on everything when Abi only really needs help on bosses. There's presently a risk that you could get her killed if you were careless versus splumonkeys, etc., and boosting health too much could turn Abi into more of an automatic lawnmower than she already is.

Here's a practical idea: Nerf healing for a while when hit by an attack the player tag reduces. You don't have think about it other than knowing you should use lune blossoms on bosses that seem to wipe the floor with Abi. The worst you could do here is waste blossoms.

[DVGMedia]

3 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

Here's a practical idea: Nerf healing for a while when hit by an attack the player tag reduces. You don't have think about it other than knowing you should use lune blossoms on bosses that seem to wipe the floor with Abi.

Thats completly opposite of The concept of practical

But it would fix the idea of playertag just nerfing abby for everything else.

I just think it would be better to just bite the bullet of giving abby a bigger health bar.  Since things will get stronger as the game goes on. and bernie and other mobs have planar entity protection to help manage that on their end since their protection scales.
However abbys will always bee flat.
 

[Siren11]

2 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

You don't have think about it other than knowing you should use lune blossoms on bosses that seem to wipe the floor with Abi.

Wouldn’t that require Abigail to have consistent damage reduction for all bosses? I’m not so sure that’s the case right now.

[WenericMember]

Just now, Siren11 said:

Wouldn’t that require Abigail to have consistent damage reduction for all bosses? I’m not so sure that’s the case right now.

TBF that's an issue for every follower mob, not just Abigail in this context.

With webber, you make up your army with enough Nurse spiders for the amount of damage you expect to take, which is also thrown off by the inconsistency of the mobs dealing double damage.

[Siren11]

1 minute ago, WenericMember said:

TBF that's an issue for every follower mob, not just Abigail in this context.

With webber, you make up your army with enough Nurse spiders for the amount of damage you expect to take, which is also thrown off by the inconsistency of the mobs dealing double damage.

I would say that most people know how many resources (including followers) they need for specific fights, though. I know roughly what I need for most of the boss fights as Wendy. But if I’m expecting a 50% damage reduction for Abigail, I would plan out fights slightly differently. It’s frustrating if my planning is thrown off by a skill not working as it seems like it should.

[WenericMember]

1 minute ago, Siren11 said:

I would say that most people know how many resources (including followers) they need for specific fights, though. I know roughly what I need for most of the boss fights as Wendy. But if I’m expecting a 50% damage reduction for Abigail, I would plan out fights slightly differently. It’s frustrating if my planning is thrown off by a skill not working as it seems like it should.

Yeah, i'm just saying its not consistant regardless of whether abigail has a player tag or not. They should probably rebalance boss damage against mobs regaredless.

[DVGMedia]

2 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

Yeah, i'm just saying its not consistant regardless of whether abigail has a player tag or not. They should probably rebalance boss damage against mobs regaredless.

Klei really likes changing whole systems for things so why not.
 

[Bumber64]

13 minutes ago, DVGMedia said:

Since things will get stronger as the game goes on. and bernie and other mobs have planar entity protection to help manage that on their end since their protection scales.
However abbys will always bee flat.

Things don't really get stronger until you approach endgame, which is what the alignment skills are for.

11 minutes ago, Siren11 said:

Wouldn’t that require Abigail to have consistent damage reduction for all bosses? I’m not so sure that’s the case right now.

She doesn't struggle as much on those, except toadstool. Extra health wouldn't be very helpful on him regardless.

[Siren11]

Just now, WenericMember said:

Yeah, i'm just saying it’s not consistant regardless of whether abigail has a player tag or not. They should probably rebalance boss damage against mobs regaredless.

Ah, I see what you mean. I do wish it was more consistent, but I believe DVG is right about mob damage being the “actual” damage. Players just… take less damage from some bosses and creatures. It would be kinda unbalanced if we took half damage from every boss, but it also wouldn’t be great for newbies if Deerclops could one-shot most of the characters.

[WenericMember]

3 minutes ago, Siren11 said:

Ah, I see what you mean. I do wish it was more consistent, but I believe DVG is right about mob damage being the “actual” damage. Players just… take less damage from some bosses and creatures. It would be kinda unbalanced if we took half damage from every boss, but it also wouldn’t be great for newbies if Deerclops could one-shot most of the characters.

 

Sure... but what difference does it make?

Either we take half damage or mobs take double damage. the end result is the same.

[DVGMedia]

8 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

Things don't really get stronger until you approach endgame, which is what the alignment skills are for.

Endgame doesn't exist.
Whatever the rifts are don't provide anything  to really consider an end game.  as most of the items during rifts are just quality of life atm for basers
Vs any kind of semblance of being additional game play for the players.
But that is just my opinion.

[Steorra]

Basic survival enhancement for Abi should be more easier to achieve for average players, and it should be "easier to understand", due to these 2 point I agree with your idea.

though I think basically double the HP of Abi is better than extra level (which would cause new issue relative with level up grading)

and it should be change into general petals than luna blossom. The basic survival of Abi is needed for newcomer, but newcomer know few about luna blossom.

[DVGMedia]

6 minutes ago, Steorra said:

Basic survival enhancement for Abi should be more easier to achieve for average players, and it should be "easier to understand", due to these 2 point I agree with your idea.

though I think basically double the HP of Abi is better than extra level (which would cause new issue relative with level up grading)

and it should be change into general petals than luna blossom. The basic survival of Abi is needed for newcomer, but newcomer know few about luna blossom.

my original thought was to tie it to the sisturn so that the player won't be able to achieve this level without building the sisturn.
Abby naturally levels up the lvl 3 but needs the sisturn to achieve level 4.  And we can set it so that on making a sisturn it has a creator tag so that only the creator gains the benefits of that lvl 4 abby if they have the perk.

[Nikki Darks]

I honestly think that the player tag would be perfect if it was locked behind Gestalt Abby.

That would pretty much solve every issue revolving it.

[DVGMedia]

Another thing i found out was that it would actually make her other potions more useful in every day scenarios.
Because then the player doesn't have to constantly set up healing for abby

Would make using her shield and speed potions more viable in fights.