As the only core feature of Wendy, why Abi should be the most weaker special follower of the whole DST?

[Steorra]

a part of people tent to say "current Abi is strong"

but for tank perspective:

BERNIE! have 2600 HP and planar entity tag which is far better than current Abi;

Treeguards of Woodie have 3750 HP and could be summoned In the plural;

both of above are not the only core feature of their characters;

Spiders army, without skill tree, could be simply "immortal" from nurses and it does same effect to Webber himself (Webber is the only character who could eat nothing with no light with no warm source but still survive from a winter)

Merms are completely broken under the skill tree so I guess there's no need for their details.

both of above are the main feature of their characters, just like Wendy;

 

 

For damage output perspective:

BERNIE! could easily solo the ruins like what Gestalt Abi could do before, additionally BERNIE! could deal with Shadows;

Treeguards of Woodie already swarmed toad (10 huge treeguards or 12 mid), AFW (20~24) and CC(struggling with this, but they can);

both of above are not the only core feature of their characters;

Spiders army (need about 40, but you could collect 50 attacker spiders in one day), without skill tree, easily killed Lunar Bearger in 27 seconds

Merms, opps.

both of above are the main feature of their characters, just like Wendy;

And the Shadow Duelist, who is the only more fragile one than Abi, could eradicate everything without Maxwell's attack in crazy time.

And it seems this is debatable, since Shadow Duelist has damage cap, and they are almost free resources for Maxwell if you want summon them in plural. 

 

No idea where we have the "STRONG" Abi if we consider the general balance around the all special followers.

[Dingle]

I'm ok with Abigail being buffed to treeguard army levels, if it takes a ton of living logs and nightmare fuel to summon her.

And she no longer follows Wendy around. You have to use nightmare fuel and living logs to summon her every fight.

Also, Abigail should not be able to attack flying enemies, or enemies that cant chop down trees.

That would make Abby be more similar to treeguards.

They would have to be more similar for your argument tactic to be less flimsy.

[Steorra]

More detail of videos is coming:

 

BERNIE! of Willow (Skilled) V.S Lunar Deerclop, (pretty slow. tbh it is far more better for ruin rush, but I haven't save any videos of this scenario)

饥荒联机版：反甲伯尼扣2复活单刷月亮鹿_哔哩哔哩bilibili

 

Treeguards of Woodie V.S AFW

【饥荒萌新】伍迪简单逃课织影者_饥荒联机版

 

Spider army of Webber (no skill tree) V.S Armored Bearger, 17 secconds (42"~59")

韦伯破碎蜘蛛装甲熊獾_哔哩哔哩_bilibili

 

Shadow Duelist of Maxwell (no skill tree) V.S Armored Bearger, 50 seconds (9"~59")

骨套影鞍战牛麦50秒速杀装甲熊獾_单机游戏热门视频

 

How to build your spider army in easy way:

【饥荒】韦伯无需工厂高效刷三种战斗蜘蛛的方法_饥荒联机版

6 minutes ago, Dingle said:

I'm ok with Abigail being buffed to treeguard army levels, if it takes a ton of living logs and nightmare fuel to summon her.

And she no longer follows Wendy around. You have to use nightmare fuel and living logs to summon her every fight.

Also, Abigail should not be able to attack flying enemies, or enemies that cant chop down trees.

That would make Abby be more similar to treeguards.

They would have to be more similar for your argument tactic to be less flimsy.

Many of us who want more survival of Abi, have no interest of DPS from Abi + Wendy.

Many of you who said Abi become "Immortal", were just focused on "Tanky" ability.

This thread is focusing on survival ability of special followers. 

The attacking side is just extra message.

[blue fat]

14 minutes ago, Steorra said:

many people tent to say "current Abi is strong"

 

I hope you can pay attention to the wording. It should be "a part of people" or "a small number of people" not "many people".

[Dingle]

I'd be fine if abby had 2600 health like bernie, if she couldn't use elixirs and didnt do aoe damage or buff Wendy's damage. Or do much damage, bernie doesn't. Also she could use sewing kits.

Otherwise they really aren't similar enough to compare.

[Steorra]

Just now, blue fat said:

I hope you can pay attention to the wording. It should be "a part of people" or "a small number of people" not "many people".

I guess, hmm, you might be right.

[blue fat]

1 minute ago, Dingle said:

I'd be fine if abby had 2600 health like bernie, if she couldn't use elixirs and didnt do aoe damage or buff Wendy's damage. Or do much damage, bernie doesn't. Also she could use sewing kits.

Otherwise they really aren't similar enough to compare.

Yes, it's a good idea to nerf Wendy's damage boost.

[Steorra]

Just now, Dingle said:

I'd be fine if abby had 2600 health like bernie, if she couldn't use elixirs and didnt do aoe damage or buff Wendy's damage. Or do much damage, bernie doesn't. Also she could use sewing kits.

Otherwise they really aren't similar enough to compare.

I'd be fine with your ideas if she additionally could use sewing kit for healing with plural Abi's flowers, and being hostile to Shadows, and Planar Entity Tag,

Also Wendy should have be covered her almost all downside like Willow.

[Dingle]

I'd be ok with Wendy getting spiders or the codex umbra if she loses Abigail.

I think that would be a pretty weird decision, but it's up to Klei so...

3 minutes ago, Steorra said:

I'd be fine with your ideas if she additionally could use sewing kit for healing with plural Abi's flowers, and being hostile to Shadows, and Planar Entity Tag,

Also Wendy should have be covered her almost all downside like Willow.

Sure, sounds good.

I have to ask though: if you want all these other characters' powers and abilities so much, why do you main Wendy?

For example, why don't you play Willow, instead?

[Steorra]

5 minutes ago, Dingle said:

I have to ask though: if you want all these other characters' powers and abilities so much, why do you main Wendy?

For example, why don't you play Willow, instead?

Because it is just a trap of "why don't you play Willow" from the very beginning. Which is aiming to avoid the question of "Why Wendy should be weaker than all other similar characters who have their special followers"

[Dingle]

2 minutes ago, Steorra said:

Because it is just a trap of "why don't you play Willow" from the very beginning. Which is aiming to avoid the question of "Why Wendy should be weaker than all other similar characters who have their special followers"

Seriously though, you keep bringing her up. And what I glean from your posts, she really seems like you would like her.

Especially in regards to fighting nightmare creatures and tankiness.

So I am curious. Why do you not play Willow?

[Steorra]

3 minutes ago, Dingle said:

Seriously though, you keep bringing her up. And what I glean from your posts, she really seems like you would like her.

Especially in regards to fighting nightmare creatures and tankiness.

So I am curious. Why do you not play Willow?

Avoiding a balance question (which was many of you were focused on) about Wendy comparing with other characters, but focusing on a personal issue.

It seems if the truth is not good for you, you just trying to start focusing on those who gave out a truth you don't like.

Your trick was failed.

[Xplan]

6 minutes ago, Dingle said:

Seriously though, you keep bringing her up. And what I glean from your posts, she really seems like you would like her.

Especially in regards to fighting nightmare creatures and tankiness.

So I am curious. Why do you not play Willow?

people wish their main characters are irreplaceable somehow at least have their advantages that no one else can do, otherwise, why do i not play ###.

Willow has many places in common with Wendy.

 

[Dingle]

9 minutes ago, Steorra said:

Avoiding a balance question (which was many of you were focused on) about Wendy comparing with other characters, but focusing on a personal issue.

It seems if the truth is not good for you, you just trying to start focusing on those who gave out a truth you don't like.

Your trick was failed.

No trick. I mean, I already made my point simply. To summarize:

"These characters and scenarios are not similar enough to compare directly. The comparisons become silly on close inspection. These comparisons are useless, except as a flimsy argument trick."

For the Willow question, I am legitimately curious. Why don't you, personally, main her instead of Wendy?

10 minutes ago, Xplan said:

people wish their main characters are irreplaceable somehow at least have their advantages that no one else can do, otherwise, why do i not play ###.

Willow has many places in common with Wendy.

 

Don't quite understand. Do you mean like a cosmetic thing?

[Steorra]

2 minutes ago, Dingle said:

For the Willow question, I am legitimately curious. Why don't you, personally, main her instead of Wendy?

I main Woodie for this half year, sorry.

2 minutes ago, Dingle said:

"These characters and scenarios are not similar enough to compare directly. The comparisons become silly on close inspection. These comparisons are useless, except as a flimsy argument trick."

I respect your opinion here, but I don't accept.

Only for tanky aspect comparison, these were far more enough.

[Dingle]

3 minutes ago, Steorra said:

I main Woodie for this half year, sorry.

I find this dubious. But I'll believe you.

I'll rephrase my question, then:

Why don't you personally main Willow? She seems like everything you want. Tanky follower, that handles Rooks and nightmare creatures well.

3 minutes ago, Steorra said:

I respect your opinion here, but I don't accept.

Fair enough.

[Steorra]

14 minutes ago, Dingle said:

For the Willow question, I am legitimately curious. Why don't you, personally, main her instead of Wendy?

Tbh I guess there's some needed to explain why I main Woodie but not Wendy.

 

For pre-rift, Woodie is far more EZ for some particular bosses rushing, I mean, for those bosses who was high needed of base building. i.e the toad, the ruins, etc.

Also Woodie is far more EZ to rush AFW for a casual playstyle (for who don't want pay much attention to the battle)

No need to say of resouces collecting for early game base building.

 

For post-rift, I prefer to switch into Wickbottom, but Woodie is still convinient for daily life than Wendy.

Weremoose could far more safe and lesser attention needed to dealt with Worm Attacks than Wendy. （I'm prefer to based in cave）

And Woodie still have the fast chopping speed, which is convient for those who have no interest of farm building.

In most post-rift fightings, knockdown is a general scerianio. 

For most time to use Wendy + Abi to deal with post-rift combat need extremely high attention, but it's brainless for Woodie.

 

5 minutes ago, Dingle said:

Why don't you personally main Willow? She seems like everything you want. Tanky follower, that handles Rooks and nightmare creatures well.

Similar issue as Wendy, she is inconvenience for daily play for both early or endgame.

I personally hate to use farm, it is a bit artificial for DST world. 

[Xplan]

Just now, Dingle said:

"These characters and scenarios are not similar enough to compare directly. The comparisons become silly on close inspection. These comparisons are useless, except as a flimsy argument trick."

that is what was happening at this forums all the time.

claiming something is op or tanky without mentioning the condition.

someone said the abi with player tag is eternal and will never die. But he omitted the elixirs and the time you spend on using elixirs instead of attacking.

there are also some people insist Wendy is doing crazier dmg than wolfgang. wendy has way less chance to attack since she has to protect abi.

[Dingle]

2 minutes ago, Steorra said:

Tbh I guess there's some needed to explain why I main Woodie but not Wendy.

 

For pre-rift, Woodie is far more EZ for some particular bosses rushing, I mean, for those bosses who was high needed of base building. i.e the toad, the ruins, etc.

Also Woodie is far more EZ to rush AFW for a casual playstyle (for who don't want pay much attention to the battle)

No need to say of resouces collecting for early game base building.

 

For post-rift, I prefer to switch into Wickbottom, but Woodie is still convinient for daily life than Wendy.

Weremoose could far more safe and lesser attention needed to dealt with Worm Attacks than Wendy.

And Woodie still have the fast chopping speed, which is convient for those who have no interest of farm building.

In most post-rift fightings, knockdown is a general scerianio. 

For most time to use Wendy + Abi to deal with post-rift combat need extremely high attention, but it's brainless for Woodie.

 

This all makes sense. I briefly mained Woodie, but the transformations annoyed me after awhile.

Do you dislike Willow?

[Steorra]

2 minutes ago, Dingle said:

Do you dislike Willow?

Hmm, maybe. 

She has bad temper...

Also her playstyle is not for me. I'm not a enjoyer of spell casting, which Willow and Maxwell have.

Wickerbottom is convenient for sailing, she could stop the annoying rain.

[Dingle]

1 minute ago, Xplan said:

someone said the abi with player tag is eternal and will never die. But he omitted the elixirs and the time you spend on using elixirs instead of attacking.

The cure all elixirs, right? Those seem pretty easy to keep on in practice. Every 30 seconds you right click on one real quick while dodging an attack.

The change to able able to right click them helped a lot, I think.

1 minute ago, Xplan said:

there are also some people insist Wendy is doing crazier dmg than wolfgang. wendy has way less chance to attack since she has to protect abi.

Depends on if the fight lets you use Vex or not, I think.

[Xplan]

Just now, Dingle said:

The cure all elixirs, right? Those seem pretty easy to keep on in practice. Every 30 seconds you right click on one real quick while dodging an attack.

The change to able able to right click them helped a lot, I think.

Depends on if the fight lets you use Vex or not, I think.

if you dont use vex, your dmg is much lower than any other characters.

what funny is: if you give up vex and decide to tank. you can kill bosses faster than those who use vex.

[Dingle]

3 minutes ago, Steorra said:

Hmm, maybe. 

She has bad temper...

Also her playstyle is not for me. I'm not a enjoyer of spell casting, which Willow and Maxwell have.

So mostly theme? Or is the spellcasting also cumbersome.

3 minutes ago, Steorra said:

Wickerbottom is convenient for sailing, she could stop the annoying rain.

End is Nigh in moonstorms is great too. She just does a lot of incredible things in general.

[hyoton123]

58 minutes ago, Dingle said:

I'm ok with Abigail being buffed to treeguard army levels, if it takes a ton of living logs and nightmare fuel to summon her.

And she no longer follows Wendy around. You have to use nightmare fuel and living logs to summon her every fight.

Also, Abigail should not be able to attack flying enemies, or enemies that cant chop down trees.

That would make Abby be more similar to treeguards.

They would have to be more similar for your argument tactic to be less flimsy.

Treeguards in particular are like. If wendy had the exact same skill as woodie for sake of argument, where would she use it? CC is prohibitively expensive. Dfly and klaus cant be hit. AG is trivial. Cant use it on frostjaw and nightmare werepig is about breaking pillars. Bearger and to some extent clops already make their own treeguards. So it’s bee queen and fuelweaver (which wendy already is fine with) and scrappy werepig+toadstool? The latter of which has three spawn points?

 

And you have to grow the evergreens, and they dont heal…

[Steorra]

8 minutes ago, Dingle said:

This all makes sense. I briefly mained Woodie, but the transformations annoyed me after awhile.

Do you dislike Willow?

I guess a question of "if you can't enjoy Wendy's high attention needed playstyle, why you choose Wendy?" is incoming.

I WAS Wendy main 3 years ago. At that time I could deal with CC while carring Abi (CC was just patched out atm)

As time passed by, my attention was damaged or decayed (not sure). You know we have real life, and it could be tough. That's why some people would turn their playstyle from high-attention needed into casual.

And we still love Wendy. I think Wendy should not be a character which only serve as a high-attention needed gameplay.