Abigail player tag needs to stay (for all the people who think its too op)

[WeWoWa]

I’ve noticed some people want to take this away, so I decided to share my thoughts on the matter too. Most dst players aren’t sweaty veterans with 3,000 hours in the game, rushing every boss by day 30. In fact, the majority just want to relax whether with friends or solo and have some fun. I think Klei should focus on supporting those players as well.

Wendy’s concept was designed for players who don’t want to focus on combat. She has less sanity drain and Abigail to protect her, making her a more forgiving option. However, Klei has added so many bosses and monsters that Abigail can’t adequately handle. This makes Wendy less of the easygoing character she was meant to be. Players who picked her for simplicity now find that she often makes things harder, as they can’t rely on Abigail’s help and are stuck with only 0.75x damage.

I know some of you will say, “You just need to learn how to control Abigail and use her potions properly,” but that’s not the point. Wendy was designed to be an easy character not one that requires hours of practice to master her mechanics. If you’re looking for a challenge, you can play Wes instead of Wendy. Not every character needs to cater to veterans. What about the players who are new or just want a relaxing experience?

For players who aren’t skilled or experienced, preparing for bosses can take an enormous amount of time because they can’t efficiently gather resources. These players often just want to enjoy the game without spending hours preparing for a single fight, only to struggle anyway

I get that for more experienced players, Abi new survability may have felt boring. But can’t you just choose not to play her and leave her for those who wants easy character? There are plenty of other characters for you to pick from, or you can skip putting points into her new skill tree to keep the “classic” Wendy style. 

As someone who struggles to manage Abigail, I end up having to recall her to her flower every time I try fighting something like Deerclops, and then I’m stuck dealing with it myself with only 0.75x damage. Please, let’s not prioritize only the pro players. Give more casual players a chance to survive too.

[DegenerateFurry]

Yeah, it always strikes me as odd how the same people who'll respond to discussions about nerfing bosses or buffing characters with "just have more skill" will point out that most players struggle even with the easier bosses regardless of character choice.

I personally think it's possible to have Wendy appeal to both experienced players who're good at the combat and people who're new or take a less combat-centric playstyle.

Team Spirit (with reduced cooldowns and no cast time for the combat commands) can be for experienced players who want something to manage that'll give you a chance for skill expression.

Blessed Sisturn III is for people who just want to be able to fight bosses with Abigail. Them having that additional help might aid them in learning how to fight bosses, too.

Since I don't totally lack self-control, I see no problem with leaving that as a choice for players to make. 

[MisterBilly]

Yeah I'm fine with a pseudo-easy mode, for a character. People who want to play the character but think it's too ez can always take the worse skills, or gimp themselves some other way.

[SilverSpoon]

First of all, Wendy is considered a "beginner character" by most "Don't Starve" fans. Her play needs to be "to some extent(Therefore I did't mean should make her the OP GuuuuuuUUUUUUYS)" easy as her concept.

To be honest, If Wendy really need nerf, I think it would be better to nerf her attack power rather than nerf her current defense power.

[WenericMember]

The issue here is wendy is for both. Shes for players who dont like combat, but kitkng with abigail is also some of the greayest skill expression in the game. 

Tjays the point of the alignment choice - survivability or damage. By putting the survivability in something not mutually exclusive undermines that. 

Also, I dont think many people are complaining about Abby getting more bulk. Its the near infinite hp. And if people think its an unviable commitment, then it shouldnt matter if that specific interaction gets nerfed.

Dominant strategy is also a thing, and you shouldnt expect everyone to find "work harder for the same reward as everyone else through a self imposed restriction" to be rewarding.

[Soul7k]

another thing to consider is spamming commands on the flower while trying to attack the boss yourself on controller is not really a thing. It might be doable, but you'll be going ham on your controller and I don't even put that much effort into ARPGs

[Xplan]

27 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

Yeah, it always strikes me as odd how the same people who'll respond to discussions about nerfing bosses or buffing characters with "just have more skill" will point out that most players struggle even with the easier bosses regardless of character choice.

I personally think it's possible to have Wendy appeal to both experienced players who're good at the combat and people who're new or take a less combat-centric playstyle.

Team Spirit (with reduced cooldowns and no cast time for the combat commands) can be for experienced players who want something to manage that'll give you a chance for skill expression.

Blessed Sisturn III is for people who just want to be able to fight bosses with Abigail. Them having that additional help might aid them in learning how to fight bosses, too.

Since I don't totally lack self-control, I see no problem with leaving that as a choice for players to make. 

Fair enough, this could be the final solution.

[Xplan]

30 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

Yeah, it always strikes me as odd how the same people who'll respond to discussions about nerfing bosses or buffing characters with "just have more skill" will point out that most players struggle even with the easier bosses regardless of character choice.

I personally think it's possible to have Wendy appeal to both experienced players who're good at the combat and people who're new or take a less combat-centric playstyle.

Team Spirit (with reduced cooldowns and no cast time for the combat commands) can be for experienced players who want something to manage that'll give you a chance for skill expression.

Blessed Sisturn III is for people who just want to be able to fight bosses with Abigail. Them having that additional help might aid them in learning how to fight bosses, too.

Since I don't totally lack self-control, I see no problem with leaving that as a choice for players to make. 

I think your idea can be widely acknowledged. Maybe you should promote it.

[Lardee]

30 minutes ago, WeWoWa said:

I’ve noticed some people want to take this away, so I decided to share my thoughts on the matter too. Most dst players aren’t sweaty veterans with 3,000 hours in the game, rushing every boss by day 30. In fact, the majority just want to relax whether with friends or solo and have some fun. I think Klei should focus on supporting those players as well.

Wendy getting the player tag does not impact relaxing gameplay at all.

30 minutes ago, WeWoWa said:

Wendy’s concept was designed for players who don’t want to focus on combat. She has less sanity drain and Abigail to protect her, making her a more forgiving option. However, Klei has added so many bosses and monsters that Abigail can’t adequately handle. This makes Wendy less of the easygoing character she was meant to be. Players who picked her for simplicity now find that she often makes things harder, as they can’t rely on Abigail’s help and are stuck with only 0.75x damage.

Wendy's concept was designed for players who don't want to deal with day to day combat. Bosses aren't day to day combat. 

30 minutes ago, WeWoWa said:

I know some of you will say, “You just need to learn how to control Abigail and use her potions properly,” but that’s not the point. Wendy was designed to be an easy character not one that requires hours of practice to master her mechanics. If you’re looking for a challenge, you can play Wes instead of Wendy. Not every character needs to cater to veterans. What about the players who are new or just want a relaxing experience?

If you want a relaxing experience, you're not fighting bosses. If you're a new player, you're not fighting bosses.

30 minutes ago, WeWoWa said:

For players who aren’t skilled or experienced, preparing for bosses can take an enormous amount of time because they can’t efficiently gather resources. These players often just want to enjoy the game without spending hours preparing for a single fight, only to struggle anyway

I get that for more experienced players, Abi new survability may have felt boring. But can’t you just choose not to play her and leave her for those who wants easy character? There are plenty of other characters for you to pick from, or you can skip putting points into her new skill tree to keep the “classic” Wendy style. 

As someone who struggles to manage Abigail, I end up having to recall her to her flower every time I try fighting something like Deerclops, and then I’m stuck dealing with it myself with only 0.75x damage. Please, let’s not prioritize only the pro players. Give more casual players a chance to survive too.

So you want a relaxing experience, but you also want to be able to crush bosses with minimal prep. 

1 Spectral Cure All lets pre-skill tree Wendy kill Deerclops in 25 seconds by just holding F next to a fire. Abigail getting the player tag has no impact on Wendy's ability to simply survive.

[Xplan]

Just now, Lardee said:

So you want a relaxing experience, but you also want to be able to crush bosses with minimal prep. 

1 Spectral Cure All lets pre-skill tree Wendy kill Deerclops in 25 seconds by just holding F next to a fire. Abigail getting the player tag has no impact on Wendy's ability to simply survive.

is there any better ways for wendy to defeat Deerclops than this. enlight us

[WenericMember]

37 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

Yeah, it always strikes me as odd how the same people who'll respond to discussions about nerfing bosses or buffing characters with "just have more skill" will point out that most players struggle even with the easier bosses regardless of character choice.

I personally think it's possible to have Wendy appeal to both experienced players who're good at the combat and people who're new or take a less combat-centric playstyle.

Team Spirit (with reduced cooldowns and no cast time for the combat commands) can be for experienced players who want something to manage that'll give you a chance for skill expression.

Blessed Sisturn III is for people who just want to be able to fight bosses with Abigail. Them having that additional help might aid them in learning how to fight bosses, too.

Since I don't totally lack self-control, I see no problem with leaving that as a choice for players to make. 

Yeah. They did that. Its called her alignment perks.

[Lardee]

Just now, Xplan said:

is there any better ways for wendy to defeat Deerclops than this. enlight us

Why would you need a better way when it's so easy and effective?

[IAmAFurrz]

36 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

I personally think it's possible to have Wendy appeal to both experienced players who're good at the combat and people who're new or take a less combat-centric playstyle.

what strikes me as weird is people who want 'less combat centric playstyle' complain about bosses. if they dont do combat then that means youre not fighting bosses, meaning you wouldn't care about this. normal mobs like dogs, pigs, spiders, etc all do the same to wendy as abi, so why would that MATTER to people that dont want to advocate for more 'skill = reward' rather than 'do something simple = reward' (im a big advocate for making wnedy be able to reposition abi with command without an animation instead of just making abi not take as much damage, as it will make the reposition skills pointless if wendy players can just ignore everything and use spectral cureall only, while also getting better reward bc of abi always being on top of bosses doing more dmg)

[Xplan]

Just now, Lardee said:

Why would you need a better way when it's so easy and effective?

So, you mean kiting Deerclops is not only troublesome but also less effective.

[IAmAFurrz]

as of right now, new players NEVER go for bosses and they definitely never go for rift stuff because they cant even do basic pre rift bosses, let alone play wendy and do the same thing, all because abi trivializes mob grinding, with the big weakness to AOE attacking bosses, which can be negated at time with some neat tricks (imo i still view her as weak but not flexible)

6 minutes ago, Xplan said:

is there any better ways for wendy to defeat Deerclops than this. enlight us

im sensing sarcasm, if there is then please remove it, its not helping discussions at all

[Lardee]

Just now, Xplan said:

So, you mean kiting Deerclops is not only troublesome but also less effective.

Never bothered to know for pre-skill tree Wendy since tanking was so easy, especially if you're on a Beefalo that will regenerate all its HP.

Kiting is definitely an option with the skill tree.

[IAmAFurrz]

55 minutes ago, WeWoWa said:

In fact, the majority just want to relax whether with friends or solo and have some fun. I think Klei should focus on supporting those players as well.

then why do the players that supposedly relax with friends and have fun, have a horse in this discussion? when people make analysis of something, people with little to no knowledge (ESPECIALLY wendy players, makes sense) complain without giving good reasons as to why its good design or interesting gameplay

57 minutes ago, WeWoWa said:

Wendy’s concept was designed for players who don’t want to focus on combat. She has less sanity drain and Abigail to protect her, making her a more forgiving option. However, Klei has added so many bosses and monsters that Abigail can’t adequately handle. This makes Wendy less of the easygoing character she was meant to be. Players who picked her for simplicity now find that she often makes things harder, as they can’t rely on Abigail’s help and are stuck with only 0.75x damage.

but... klei has made it obvious that rift bosses are optional, if wendy is for 'players who don’t want to focus on combat' they should know better than to pick fights with bosses? quite literally only things that seek you out are deerclops, bearger, and dogs. you SEEK bosses that destroy abi if you dont know what youre doing, not the reverse.

[Xplan]

Just now, Lardee said:

Never bothered to know for pre-skill tree Wendy since tanking was so easy, especially if you're on a Beefalo that will regenerate all its HP.

Kiting is definitely an option with the skill tree.

yeah it's easy for Wendy to tank bosses, but not for pre-skill Abi.

to be precise, it's easy for almost every character to tank. tanking is always a solution. If you are not good at boss combat, you can always prepare plenty enough resources to overcome.

Just now, IAmAFurrz said:

but... klei has made it obvious that rift bosses are optional

the player tag is also optional.

[IAmAFurrz]

1 hour ago, WeWoWa said:

I know some of you will say, “You just need to learn how to control Abigail and use her potions properly,” but that’s not the point. Wendy was designed to be an easy character not one that requires hours of practice to master her mechanics. If you’re looking for a challenge, you can play Wes instead of Wendy. Not every character needs to cater to veterans. What about the players who are new or just want a relaxing experience?

quite literally a 'boo hoo, i do not want to learn things, but i also want to be able to do harder bosses too'. a lot of the discussion around this is advocating for wendys weakness to be removed (arguably already in the game as instant max health upgrade abi potion + cure-all).

if you CHOOSE to stick with wendy, then you LIVE with her weaknesses. i want the skill tree to make wendy have some more skill-based controlling of abi rather than just making her stronger which is what a lot of wendy players want, a 'do not do anything' character

2 minutes ago, Xplan said:

the player tag is also optional.

yea but im saying that design decision will make wendy uninteresting

[cyjs]

1 minute ago, IAmAFurrz said:

then why do the players that supposedly relax with friends and have fun, have a horse in this discussion? when people make analysis of something, people with little to no knowledge (ESPECIALLY wendy players, makes sense) complain without giving good reasons as to why its good design or interesting gameplay

All players are equal and their words have equal status. Not only do you exclude them, you label them. I don't think this is wise, my friend.

[Edible Coal]

20 minutes ago, Fitzee said:

Right ahead of you:

Klei is at least aware of these suggestions I made, so hopefully they consider implementing them soon.

true

[IAmAFurrz]

1 hour ago, WeWoWa said:

Not every character needs to cater to veterans.

i really think this is a bad way of thinking, as people who dont know what they're talking about, will make opinions based on their lack of knowledge.

[cyjs]

2 minutes ago, IAmAFurrz said:

yea but im saying that design decision will make wendy uninteresting

You can choose another role

[Soul7k]

2 minutes ago, IAmAFurrz said:

quite literally a 'boo hoo, i do not want to learn things, but i also want to be able to do harder bosses too'. a lot of the discussion around this is advocating for wendys weakness to be removed (arguably already in the game as instant max health upgrade abi potion + cure-all).

if you CHOOSE to stick with wendy, then you LIVE with her weaknesses. i want the skill tree to make wendy have some more skill-based controlling of abi rather than just making her stronger which is what a lot of wendy players want, a 'do not do anything' character

yea but im saying that design decision will make wendy uninteresting

meanwhile woodies rework that took away all his weaknesses and just made him fun to play

[WeWoWa]

12 minutes ago, Lardee said:

Wendy getting the player tag does not impact relaxing gameplay at all.

Wendy's concept was designed for players who don't want to deal with day to day combat. Bosses aren't day to day combat. 

If you want a relaxing experience, you're not fighting bosses. If you're a new player, you're not fighting bosses.

So you want a relaxing experience, but you also want to be able to crush bosses with minimal prep. 

1 Spectral Cure All lets pre-skill tree Wendy kill Deerclops in 25 seconds by just holding F next to a fire. Abigail getting the player tag has no impact on Wendy's ability to simply survive.

"Wendy getting the player tag does not impact relaxing gameplay at all." Yes, it does because it means you have easier fights with bosses.

"Bosses aren't day to day combat." That’s true, they aren’t, but they are an important part of dst. The original game, don't starve, didn’t have many bosses only Deerclops, who was weaker than the one in DST.

"If you want a relaxing experience, you're not fighting bosses. If you're a new player, you're not fighting bosses." You don’t always have a choice. Deerclops will come to you no matter what. And if you’re playing with friends, they might make you fight bosses, but then you’ll just end up dying because you’re too weak, and that can be really frustrating.

"So you want a relaxing experience, but you also want to be able to crush bosses with minimal prep." For pro players, this might be minimal prep, but for beginners and noobs, it takes much more time and effort.

"Abigail getting the player tag has no impact on Wendy's ability to simply survive." That’s true in the early game, but in the late game, it definitely does.