Blessed Sisturn III is Way too Strong

[WenericMember]

30 minutes ago, Arcwell said:

Look, in theory that's a great idea. The problem is we do not have that in practice, and if this beta is anything like the Willow one, we never will.

All of Abby's Team Spirit abilities are tied to a 4 second cooldown. So yes you can use it do so something like dodge AG's charge (which is a great application btw), but it won't be nearly as helpful against attacks that happen more frequently, such as any attacks from Bearger, Klaus, Twins, and Fuelweaver.

Can't relate.

The fact theyve delayed team spirit changes to the end of beta is so frustrating. Theyre the truest to Abbys style, but theyved buffed everything other than that.

[aidankocherhans]

1 minute ago, QuitePositiveGC said:

Fair, but you do know you're not forced to pick this skill. Also if you don't want to fight like Wolfgang, you can just use Vigor Mortis and kite early, and or use the new Abigail commands to kite for her.

So idk, Imo this isn't an issue.

Okay but why would you do any of those things when this is an extremely easy and effortless alternative?

[Mike23Ua]

Simplistic solution: if your going to give Abby a perk to get a “player” tag, then ghostly Elixers should be significantly less effective when viewed as a “player” 

[Arcwell]

Just now, Lardee said:

Team Spirit isn't required to for any of those bosses except Bearger, and it's okay for characters to have bad matchups just like it's okay for them to have good ones.

Required wasn't the argument though? You referenced Team Spirit as an alternative to potions to make fights easier. If your plan is to just not use Team Spirit then I don't see how that's a good alternative.

[Dingle]

4 minutes ago, QuitePositiveGC said:

Fair, but you do know you're not forced to pick this skill. Also if you don't want to fight like Wolfgang, you can just use Vigor Mortis and kite early, and or use the new Abigail commands to kite for her.

So idk, Imo this isn't an issue.

You're not forced to fight with weapons, either. You could just punch things to death.

[QuitePositiveGC]

1 minute ago, Dingle said:

You're not forced to fight with weapons, either. You could just punch things to death.

How is this applicable?

4 minutes ago, aidankocherhans said:

Okay but why would you do any of those things when this is an extremely easy and effortless alternative?

Idk, to have fun.

[Lardee]

1 minute ago, Arcwell said:

Required wasn't the argument though? You referenced Team Spirit as an alternative to potions to make fights easier. If your plan is to just not use Team Spirit then I don't see how that's a good alternative.

Skill is the alternative to spectral cure all.

Team spirit falls under skill.

For the bosses I talked about Spectral Cure All and Team spirit make the fights easier. Neither are required.

[Nikki Darks]

23 minutes ago, Arthurian Titan said:

Just give Spectral Cure-All a tag so that it can't be constantly applied, there, issue solved; you would need to constantly alternate between potions to even try to replicate this.

Giving spectral cure-all a cooldown could be a way to bandaid the issue, but 50% damage reduction is 50% damage reduction... Even if the healing is on a cd.

[Dingle]

2 minutes ago, QuitePositiveGC said:

How is this applicable?

Idk, to have fun.

Have you ever thought about just swallowing all your food? You know, not chewing it?

If you think about it, you really don't need to chew your food.

[aidankocherhans]

3 minutes ago, QuitePositiveGC said:

Idk, to have fun.

Are you saying this broken strat isn't fun, but should stay in the game?

[Nikki Darks]

Or even, if you take the player tag skill, it makes it so that player tag Abby cannot receive elixir buffs?

 

[aidankocherhans]

6 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Simplistic solution: if your going to give Abby a perk to get a “player” tag, then ghostly Elixers should be significantly less effective when viewed as a “player” 

Honestly, that makes sense. It would make you worse against non-bosses, but you could just not use lunar petals so it wouldn't be a huge problem 

[Siren11]

3 minutes ago, Lardee said:

The DST learning curve when it comes to bosses, especially the tougher ones, have never been learning how to fight them on the go, and in the case of Wendy, Spectral Cure All would be the newer/intermediate player solution.

I actually do practice fights, if that’s what you’re talking about, but playing as Wendy doesn’t give you a lot of time to make mistakes. Spectral Cure-All is a fine solution for the bosses that existed when Wendy was reworked, but there’s so much more to the game at this point. There are points where (imo) the difficulty spikes more than it probably should and Wendy in particular could stand to be a bit more forgiving with her learning curve. I can’t even practice bc I’m doing everything else trying to keep Abigail alive. Doing it through a skill is a nice compromise bc experienced players who don’t need the skill don’t have to choose it.

The skill could use a bit of a rework, but I think the core of it needs to stay.

[QuitePositiveGC]

Just now, aidankocherhans said:

Are you saying this broken strat isn't fun, but should stay in the game?

I fail to see how it is broken. You either fight alongside Abigail and you'll still need to kite since Boss aggro prioritizes Wendy over Abigail, or you let Abigail kill them over the course of 20 years. One fun, the other not.

3 minutes ago, Dingle said:

Have you ever thought about just swallowing all your food? You know, not chewing it?

If you think about it, you really don't need to chew your food.

I like how I asked a question and instead of explaining your point of view, you just double down. I can respect that.

[DegenerateFurry]

I disagree. Your test doesn't show the skill on its own, it shows it with constant Spectral Cure-All healing. Abigail alone will die outright to any boss, even Deerclops, even with the new player tag against bosses. 

Let me explain why this is so relevant that it's not even funny.

In order to let Abigail solo a boss (which you shouldn't be doing anyway), you'd need to use more than the amount of HP you'd spend face-tanking it yourself to make those Cure-Alls because Abigail alone will be doing less damage than you would (and substantially less than you and Abigail would), meaning the fight will take substantially longer, especially if it's not at night (and Nightshade Nostrum isn't an option since you're relying on Cure-All healing). 

So, the functional difference between face-tanking a boss yourself with a bunch of pierogis and a couple marble suits is... that you're gonna be using way more pierogis to produce Spectral Cure-Alls, and the marble suits are switched for Mourning Glories. Oh, and it also takes longer.

It's perfectly balanced as-is, or at least no less unbalanced than anyone else spamming heals on themselves (which literally everyone not named Wormwood can do with extreme speed and convenience).

If you want to fight an AoE boss alongside Abigail and not try to make her kite at all, you are still going to need extra healing for Abby, so it's a net resource increase (potentially up to doubling it if you're face-tanking with Abby) to keep her alive throughout boss fights.

[Mike23Ua]

15 minutes ago, aidankocherhans said:

Honestly, that makes sense. It would make you worse against non-bosses, but you could just not use lunar petals so it wouldn't be a huge problem 

I don’t play DST much in Multiplayer so I’m not sure HOW Wendy plays in Multiplayer..

But this could be extremely problematic if any Wendy in the server can craft a Sisturn and fill it with lune petals to then convert everyone else’s Abigail’s to be designated to Boss fighting when they’re out doing something like clearing large spider infestations. 

[WenericMember]

1 minute ago, DegenerateFurry said:

I disagree. Your test doesn't show the skill on its own, it shows it with constant Spectral Cure-All healing. Abigail alone will die outright to any boss, even Deerclops, even with the new player tag against bosses. 

Let me explain why this is so relevant that it's not even funny.

In order to let Abigail solo a boss (which you shouldn't be doing anyway), you'd need to use more than the amount of HP you'd spend face-tanking it yourself to make those Cure-Alls because Abigail alone will be doing less damage than you would (and substantially less than you and Abigail would), meaning the fight will take substantially longer, especially if it's not at night (and Nightshade Nostrum isn't an option since you're relying on Cure-All healing). 

So, the functional difference between face-tanking a boss yourself with a bunch of pierogis and a couple marble suits is... that you're gonna be using way more pierogis to produce Spectral Cure-Alls, and the marble suits are switched for Mourning Glories. Oh, and it also takes longer.

It's perfectly balanced as-is, or at least no less unbalanced than anyone else spamming heals on themselves (which literally everyone not named Wormwood can do with extreme speed and convenience).

If you want to fight an AoE boss alongside Abigail and not try to make her kite at all, you are still going to need extra healing for Abby, so it's a net resource increase (potentially up to doubling it if you're face-tanking with Abby) to keep her alive throughout boss fights.

Wendy specialises in out of combate healing. She can make tents and healing salves galore.

Making telltale hearts is already free

[DegenerateFurry]

Just now, WenericMember said:

Wendy specialises in out of combate healing. She can make tents and healing salves galore.

Making telltale hearts is already free

It's not "free", though. It costs health. That means you need healing items, the same as if you were to fight yourself. You're essentially changing healing for Wendy into healing for Abigail. Thus, it's balanced.

[Lardee]

5 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

I disagree. Your test doesn't show the skill on its own, it shows it with constant Spectral Cure-All healing. Abigail alone will die outright to any boss, even Deerclops, even with the new player tag against bosses. 

Let me explain why this is so relevant that it's not even funny.

In order to let Abigail solo a boss (which you shouldn't be doing anyway), you'd need to use more than the amount of HP you'd spend face-tanking it yourself to make those Cure-Alls because Abigail alone will be doing less damage than you would (and substantially less than you and Abigail would), meaning the fight will take substantially longer, especially if it's not at night (and Nightshade Nostrum isn't an option since you're relying on Cure-All healing). 

So, the functional difference between face-tanking a boss yourself with a bunch of pierogis and a couple marble suits is... that you're gonna be using way more pierogis to produce Spectral Cure-Alls, and the marble suits are switched for Mourning Glories. Oh, and it also takes longer.

It's perfectly balanced as-is, or at least no less unbalanced than anyone else spamming heals on themselves (which literally everyone not named Wormwood can do with extreme speed and convenience).

If you want to fight an AoE boss alongside Abigail and not try to make her kite at all, you are still going to need extra healing for Abby, so it's a net resource increase (potentially up to doubling it if you're face-tanking with Abby) to keep her alive throughout boss fights.

This was all addressed in the original post.

[aidankocherhans]

28 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Simplistic solution: if your going to give Abby a perk to get a “player” tag, then ghostly Elixers should be significantly less effective when viewed as a “player” 

This ties in to why the flower shroud didn't work: player and mob health scale differently. You can't simply apply the values of one to another without more restrictions 

[Lee lol]

1 minute ago, WenericMember said:

Wendy 专门从事 Out of combate 治疗。她可以制作帐篷和大量的治疗药膏。

制作 Telltale Hearts 已经是免费的

But you need time, you need to do some repetitive menial work, and you're wasting a lot of potions

[WenericMember]

4 minutes ago, Lee lol said:

But you need time, you need to do some repetitive menial work, and you're wasting a lot of potions

The time to reward ratio is not equivalent though.

[aidankocherhans]

Remember how people were complaining, "Wendy mains just want an unkillable Abigail", and it felt like a bit of an exaggeration?

[Nikki Darks]

8 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

It's not "free", though. It costs health. That means you need healing items, the same as if you were to fight yourself. You're essentially changing healing for Wendy into healing for Abigail. Thus, it's balanced.

As someone who used to hardcore main Wendy, healing is absolutely free on her, if you just thought about the character.

Easy as pie:

Abby is good against horde mobs, spiders are horde mobs, Abby kills spiders fast, spiders drop glands, healing is free. This discussion is over.

Saying healing isn't free on Wendy is telling of how little some people play the character instead of debating about her on the forums.

 

[DegenerateFurry]

11 minutes ago, Lardee said:

This was all addressed in the original post.

I know. I'm disagreeing with your assessment that this is a bad thing. If you're constantly topping off Abigail's health with Spectral Cure-Alls, how is this any different from shoveling pierogis or trail mix down your own gullet? I don't get it. 

3 minutes ago, Nikki Darks said:

As someone who used to hardcore main Wendy, healing is absolutely free on her, if you just thought about the character.

Easy as pie:

Abby is good against horde mobs, spiders are horde mobs, Abby kills spiders fast, spiders drop glands, healing is free. This discussion is over.

Saying healing isn't free on Wendy is telling of how little some people play the character instead of debating about her on the forums.

 

Okay then, let's nerf Wolfgang to heal 50% less. After all, healing is free for him due to his double damage, right? He can literally one-shot mobs like spiders with just a fresh ham bat. 
Healing is also free for Woodie if you think it is for Wendy, though, right? Weremoose can kill spiders just as easily. So can Webber. Why not complain about them?
Note: I am not suggesting that seriously, it's just your logic.