Blessed Sisturn III is Way too Strong

[Lardee]

Giving Abigail the player tag cuts boss damage in half which means her health is basically doubled. However, it also effectively doubles the strength of Abigail's healing potions. This means Abigail's survivability isn't simply doubled, it ends up at least quadrupled if you decide to use things like Spectral Cure All.

The video below shows just how difficult Abigail becomes to kill when using Blessed Sisturn III. Please note that this is in a scenario where you're literally trying to tank bosses with Abigail.

If you're playing the game the regular way and not trying to solo a boss with just Abigail, she's almost unkillable if you use Spectral Cure All.

I think Klei needs to go back to the drawing board with this one. Skill trees should not simply cut character weaknesses by 75% unless absolutely necessary. It's not necessary for Wendy. Wendy could already beat almost every boss without using a single Spectral Cure All and Spectral Cure All already was the solution to making her more survivable if you didn't possess the skill or knowledge to avoid damage with her. These are now much easier to make and she has controls that help Abigail avoid damage.

Instead of removing weaknesses, skill trees should be increasing strengths at a cost, giving characters more tools to master, or giving them risk/reward options.

 

by the way, this is how easy it is to get Spectral Cure Alls with her skill tree:

 

[Nikki Darks]

This is just insanity. However, I do think that the ST is fine if they just removed the player tag and the instant lvl 3 elixir. 

Because even if those bosses do kill her eventually, Wendy can just insta level up Abby to lvl 3 and heal her with Spectral Cure-all...

[WenericMember]

Uhhh yeah thats a problem...

This was the kind of video I was looking for. It feels like with minimum effort to draw aggro Abigail will become functionally immortal.

[aidankocherhans]

Flower shroud 2.0

[Dingle]

14 minutes ago, Lardee said:

Giving Abigail the player tag cuts boss damage in half which means her health is basically doubled. However, it also effectively doubles the strength of Abigail's healing potions. This means Abigail's survivability isn't simply doubled, it ends up at least quadrupled if you decide to use things like Spectral Cure All.

The video below shows just how difficult Abigail becomes to kill when using Blessed Sisturn III. Please note that this is in a scenario where you're literally trying to tank bosses with Abigail.

If you're playing the game the regular way and not trying to solo a boss with just Abigail, she's almost unkillable if you use Spectral Cure All.

I think Klei needs to go back to the drawing board with this one. Skill trees should not simply cut character weaknesses by 75% unless absolutely necessary. It's not necessary for Wendy. Wendy could already beat almost every boss without using a single Spectral Cure All and Spectral Cure All already was the solution to making her more survivable if you didn't possess the skill or knowledge to avoid damage with her. These are now much easier to make and she has controls that help Abigail avoid damage.

Instead of removing weaknesses, skill trees should be increasing strengths at a cost, giving characters more tools to master, or giving them risk/reward options.

 

I already figured this would be the case against dragonfly and other bosses like her. But seeing Abby tank Crystal Deerclops surprised me.

Did you try against Lunar Bearger? That's what people are going to bring up right away.

[WenericMember]

1 minute ago, aidankocherhans said:

Flower shroud 2.0

Both sister got a turn with the immortality stick

[OMEGASCRUFF]

What the heck is going on in Wendyland right now? I feel like I'm going insane.

[Arcwell]

All of these tests are assuming you have spectral cure-all with 100% uptime.

If people want to spam healing to keep Abby alive, I think they should be able to. You can already keep yourself alive by spamming pierogi.

I also think it is much more reasonable if you assume people aren't spamming healing items all the time.

[WenericMember]

That said, what ever happens to blessed sisturn 3, pls keep the lune blossom quest. Its very cool.

[Dingle]

It occurs to me that if you used Graven to resurrect a murder buffed Shadow Abigail, she could nearly solo Bearger for you. @Tranoze

1 minute ago, Arcwell said:

All of these tests are assuming you have spectral cure-all with 100% uptime.

If people want to spam healing to keep Abby alive, I think they should be able to. You can already keep yourself alive by spamming pierogi.

I also think it is much more reasonable if you assume people aren't spamming healing items all the time.

This argument seems beneath you.

[aidankocherhans]

4 minutes ago, Arcwell said:

I also think it is much more reasonable if you assume people aren't spamming healing items all the time.

Everyone is going to spam healing if this is available

[Dingle]

1 minute ago, aidankocherhans said:

Everyone is going to spam healing if this is available

Getting Cure Alls is also much easier than ever.

Also you would probably not be able to kill Crystal Deerclops as a player if you just choke down pierogi while standing still, holding F between chomps.

Also, armor durability exists.

It is a stunningly bad argument.

[WenericMember]

8 minutes ago, Arcwell said:

All of these tests are assuming you have spectral cure-all with 100% uptime.

If people want to spam healing to keep Abby alive, I think they should be able to. You can already keep yourself alive by spamming pierogi.

I also think it is much more reasonable if you assume people aren't spamming healing items all the time.

To facetank, players need sanity foods, hp foods, and a metric tonne of armour. Its balanced by the absurd resource drain.

This needs... 3mg and a heart.

[Nikki Darks]

10 minutes ago, OMEGASCRUFF said:

What the heck is going on in Wendyland right now? I feel like I'm going insane.

This is unrelated, but your pfp kindles joy.

[Cassielu]

It is theoretically true that the skilltree shouldn't remove weaknesses beacause weaknesses aim to provide a unique experiences. But when a character's weaknesses make her almost completely inferior to other characters in boss combat, which is increasingly a major part of the game, and it does so in a way that causes the character to turn to spam for non-character-specific content, it has not done this job. Weaknesses like this is no reason continue to exist.

Also you can't just compare Wendy before and after and claim she's an OP, you should compare Wendy with other characters

[Nikki Darks]

10 minutes ago, Arcwell said:

All of these tests are assuming you have spectral cure-all with 100% uptime.

If people want to spam healing to keep Abby alive, I think they should be able to. You can already keep yourself alive by spamming pierogi.

I also think it is much more reasonable if you assume people aren't spamming healing items all the time.

I think it's a safe assumption to make, that people will in fact spam Spectral Cure-Alls, for 2 reasons.

A single Pipspook gives 20 mourning glories now, and you can get up to 2 bonus elixirs when crafting one.

It's never been this easy to amass an elixir that costs 40 HP per craft, because now it costs 40HP per up to 3 crafts.

2 minutes ago, Cassielu said:

It is theoretically true that the skilltree shouldn't remove weaknesses. But weaknesses should aim to provide a unique experiences, when a character's weaknesses make her almost completely inferior to other characters in combat, which is increasingly a major part of the game, and it does so in a way that causes the character to turn to spam for non-character-specific content, it has not done this job. Weaknesses like this is no reason continue to exist.

 

I would agree with this if the character had nothing else going out besides combat, but Wendy has gotten really good support and utility skills that make her very useful out of combat. Making the combat downside not as bad as it once used to be.

[Dingle]

Just now, Nikki Darks said:

I think it's a safe assumption to make, that people will in fact spam Spectral Cure-Alls, for 2 reasons.

A single Pipspook gives 20 mourning glories now, and you can get up to 2 bonus elixirs when crafting one.

It's never been this easy to amass an elixir that costs 40 HP per craft, because now it costs 40HP per up to 3 crafts.

Didn't know you got that many for free, I thought it just sometimes gave you 1.

[Lardee]

5 minutes ago, Arcwell said:

All of these tests are assuming you have spectral cure-all with 100% uptime.

If people want to spam healing to keep Abby alive, I think they should be able to. You can already keep yourself alive by spamming pierogi.

I also think it is much more reasonable if you assume people aren't spamming healing items all the time.

This point is moot considering all of these tests have Abigail straight up tanking each boss. And having spectral cure all 100% of the time is viable considering each lasts for 30 seconds and all her new skills make them cheap.

You'd need to burn through perogies and armor to keep yourself alive at a rate way greater than 1 spectral cure all every 30 seconds. Plus, comparing Abigail's survivability against her counter to a player is wild.

The point of the healing potions comparison is to show how much the new skill increases her survivability against default. In an actual game, you wouldn't have to spam healing potions unless you're making Abigail 1 v 1 a boss.

[WenericMember]

14 minutes ago, OMEGASCRUFF said:

What the heck is going on in Wendyland right now? I feel like I'm going insane.

We're all mad here...

[Nikki Darks]

Just now, Dingle said:

Didn't know you got that many for free, I thought it just sometimes gave you 1.

The last pipspook skill rounds up the total amount of mourning glories to 20, with 3 times less time required than the previous 6-7 mourning glories.

And this doesn't take into the account that you can relocate graves to a more convenient spot.

[WenericMember]

1 minute ago, Dingle said:

Didn't know you got that many for free, I thought it just sometimes gave you 1.

Apparently its a 40% chance for 2, 10% chance for 3.

[Dingle]

Just now, Nikki Darks said:

The last pipspook skill rounds up the total amount of mourning glories to 20, with 3 times less time required than the previous 6-7 mourning glories.

And this doesn't take into the account that you can relocate graves to a more convenient spot.

Oh I meant the bonus potion skill giving 2 freebies

[Nikki Darks]

Just now, Dingle said:

Oh I meant the bonus potion skill giving 2 freebies

Oh mb, then it's what Weneric said!

[Lardee]

17 minutes ago, Dingle said:

I already figured this would be the case against dragonfly and other bosses like her. But seeing Abby tank Crystal Deerclops surprised me.

Did you try against Lunar Bearger? That's what people are going to bring up right away.

I didn't test it against Lunar Bearger because I assumed it would be around the same ratio as regular Bearger.

[Jakepeng99]

The old overhealth system was way better. I do not understand why they replaced a cool mechanic with an honestly kinda boring (and too strong apparently) mechanic.