a VERY honest view of the current Walter skill tree

[Tarnishedmax]

Before anything, i think the team did a good job with the slingshot, its an actually good weapon now and it has insane utility while also being really fun to play with! it opens a lot of possibilities and makes Walter very special, ive always thought Walter was a very complete character that only really lacked on Woby and the slingshot and the skill tree fixed one of those things at least, this is as far as my happiness for the tree goes though.

I don´t understand why every single one of his skills are just undertuned for no real reason, half of his new rounds are mediocre at best and Woby got nothing substantial aside from dig and fetch, i don´t understand why did they decided to make Woby a worse beefalo that we still have to train, i love the concept of giving her little badges but they are seriously deeply undertuned and it genuinely bothers me, specially the big Woby perks.

- Agility is technically faster than a rider beefalo and its probably the best skill of the bunch, yet its not really that impactful because of her hunger mechanic, she is really inconsistent and requieres constant upkeep to function properly, i don´t get why this skill doesn´t impact her hunger in any shape way or form, i´m even more confused now considering Wendy got half her downsides removed completely (like Abby being considered a player) yet the main drawback of Woby remains untouched

- Bravery makes sense to have but it just feels redundant when beefalos exist.

- Support sounds awesome on paper, having a passive sanity regen while mounting Woby sounds really good for Walter but why is this sanity regen just worse than a pudgy beefalo... im training Woby, im using a whole skill point, why is my payment a WORSE pudgy beefalo, and losing less sanity for getting hit while on top of Woby is something? i guess?

Dig and fetch are pretty fine skills, they are really useful and really good passive boosts but these skills kinda just push Walter onto having a beefalo since you only benefit from this with small Woby, specially considering when all the training you do and all the perks and time you waste means nothing when you could just have tamed a beefalo for the exact same amount of effort but get a ton more benefits compared to Woby badges, i seriously do not understand why these skills are just so BAD and undertuned.

The new rounds suffer from this exact level of mediocrity, the only ones that are actually worth your time is shadow alignment, dreadstone and glass rounds, everything else kinda just feels pointless.

- stinger rounds: why is this a skill, what is the point of using a skill point on this when glass rounds are literally right there, the concept of stinger rounds as a really cheap early game aoe ammo for spiders, bees or birds is nice but this is not worth an entire skill point, its just not.

- Honey rounds: These are cool but get tragically outclassed by slowdown rounds which are base kit and then icker rounds.

- Shockscrap rounds: These are cool in concept but i fail to find an use to these, specially considering i have to go out of my way to craft these, 74 damage on a wet target otherwise its like 40 something, even if you are in the extremely specific scenario of an enemy being wet you are kinda just better off using cursed rounds cause they kinda just do more damage anyways, i love the idea of shocking ammo but these deserve something else other than just decent damage in an extremely specific scenario

- Gunpowder rounds: I personally love these but i just have to admit how outclassed they are in how much they cost and how much damage they deal, these are once again outclassed by cursed rounds, i think them being more fun is fine but i wish it just didn´t have that 5 second cooldown between critical hits, let me play with my luck please, the explosions feel like they never happen and its even worse now that the fire rate increased, meaning i waste more rounds while just WAITING for the explosion to happen because of this cooldown restriction.

- Dreadstone rounds: i like how cost efficient they are but these are honestly just more usable as charge shot ammo to deal REALLY high damage to trash mobs rather than actual damage ammo, this is because once again they get outclassed by cursed rounds, though i don´t think its that bad since they do find a really unique use, i enjoy 2 shotting crawling horrors with these.

- Lunar alignment is just, sad, i cant really explain everything that is wrong with it here but do expect a post later on with comparisons and examples and all that, just know that this alignment its in a REALLY bad state currently.

I don´t really have an issue with cursed rounds being good, i LOVE how cheap, effective and versatile they are and if these were nerfed i would cry, but i think most of his new rounds should just be able to outclass them, and i don´t mean that they should do more damage, currently all the new rounds seem to just focus damage over anything else yet fall short to the cheapest option, gunpowder rounds could be more fun if they were truly random, shockscrap would benefit from an extra effect like bouncing between enemies (like a brightshade staff) honey rounds could give some healing if a player hits the honey´d target with a melee swing, stinger rounds could create a spiked path on impact making it more unique and a new form of area denial, there is so much you could do with these rounds but since all of them focus damage and just get stomped by cursed rounds it just ends up making me feel sad, glass rounds and pure horror rounds are the best rounds because not only they do damage but have very distinct and unique abilities that makes them worth taking over cursed rounds, the glass aoe is really nice and being able to poison enemies for HUGE damage over time while also keeping them stunned with the pure horror rounds is amazing! and i want to see more like this, but as of now its just sad and it makes me kinda upset (╥‸╥)

Now i know Klei has a lot planned and i´m really hopeful most of these issues will be fixed making this post outdated, but i think its fair to be a bit scared of how they will handle it until then, specially considering how little has changed between hotfixes.

I have been really enjoying Walter and i just know he could be even more, he has a lot of potential, ill probably be giving actual feedback, suggestions and video comparisons in the future but as of now i kinda just wanted to make a post to list all of the problems Walter is currently facing and hopefully create some more discussion about him!  ⸜(｡˃ ᵕ ˂ )⸝

 

[layangan putus]

Good balancing for Walter - Many possibilities yet to be explored in this PvE game comparing current abilities of Walter & Woby with what they could be in the future. Strong tools are finally created to help the players uncovering the mysteries in The Constant within their limited free time. Some will say they are overpowered but I think they are simply attractive, fun, and much more engaging than the vanilla version can offer. His downsides with actual drawback make the game interesting and they won't necessarily ruin the fun that the players can experience by actually reinforcing simple solution as Walter for many tough combat puzzles yet to be encountered instead of making them feel overwhelmed. What a better era with more paths to choose, expanding current available gameplay loops. Imagine trying to gatekeep this better version of DST out of nostalgia and twisted balancing between PvP and PvE games while the game development keeps getting further from your taste. It's actually funny that some people just can't have fun discussion and only want to spread sense of superiority to others. Anyway, I can't wait to play with more Walters in public servers later especially those new players since he's free to play & beginner-friendly enough with the skill tree. Please dev! Make Walter the new best beginner-friendly character for combat, extra damage with more rangers behind your character will be totally helpful.

[_mylilsunshine_]

Yep yep I agree 100%. Waiting for the Scout/Camp perks that Klei mentioned but I would also want to suggest a perk to improve/create synergy with the Pinetree Hat.

[Tarnishedmax]

8 hours ago, DST enjoyer said:

Good balancing for Walter - Many possibilities yet to be explored in this PvE game comparing current abilities of Walter & Woby with what they could be in the future. Strong tools are finally created to help the players uncovering the mysteries in The Constant within their limited free time. Some will say they are overpowered but I think they are simply attractive, fun, and much more engaging than the vanilla version can offer. His downsides with actual drawback make the game interesting and they won't necessarily ruin the fun that the players can experience by actually reinforcing simple solution as Walter for many tough combat puzzles yet to be encountered instead of making them feel overwhelmed. What a better era with more paths to choose, expanding current available gameplay loops. Imagine trying to gatekeep this better version of DST out of nostalgia and twisted balancing between PvP and PvE games while the game development keeps getting further from your taste. It's actually funny that some people just can't have fun discussion and only want to spread sense of superiority to others. Anyway, I can't wait to play with more Walters in public servers later especially those new players since he's free to play & beginner-friendly enough with the skill tree. Please dev! Make Walter the new best beginner-friendly character for combat, extra damage with more rangers behind your character will be totally helpful.

I can barely understand what your point is but i think you are over exaggerating and completely missing the point of this post, im not asking for his drawbacks to be removed, im not asking for him to be the best character and op and all that, all i want is for the skill tree to be on par with most characters, and as it stands now his skill tree just lacks quality and polish, he currently has the lowest amount of skills in the entire game, even less than Wolfgang, and between this little amount of skills half of them do basically nothing, are you not capable of seeing how this is a huge issue? its not about balance but rather about him being fun and just having more tools to play with, the objective of the game is having fun, and with how barebones his skill tree currently is i highly doubt these “new Walters” will stay for long, at least they wont stay until they see literally any other character with a skill tree that has so many more toys to play with compared to him, don’t twist my words and concerns to create this fake argument. you are not making any sense.

I think its pretty clear i have been enjoying Walter and i have been playing with him non stop, i love what they did with the slingshot and this post is born from concern of one of my favorite characters, if anything it seems like you are the one being anti fun.

8 hours ago, _mylilsunshine_ said:

Yep yep I agree 100%. Waiting for the Scout/Camp perks that Klei mentioned but I would also want to suggest a perk to improve/create synergy with the Pinetree Hat.

I really really hope they are creative with them and not just go with the Winona route of giving 6 skills that are just % buffs

[Quikin]

Plis kleiii plisssss

[Mysterious box]

2 hours ago, Tarnishedmax said:

Before anything, i think the team did a good job with the slingshot, its an actually good weapon now and it has insane utility while also being really fun to play with! it opens a lot of possibilities and makes Walter very special, ive always thought Walter was a very complete character that only really lacked on Woby and the slingshot and the skill tree fixed one of those things at least, this is as far as my happiness for the tree goes though.

I don´t understand why every single one of his skills are just undertuned for no real reason, half of his new rounds are mediocre at best and Woby got nothing substantial aside from dig and fetch, i don´t understand why did they decided to make Woby a worse beefalo that we still have to train, i love the concept of giving her little badges but they are seriously deeply undertuned and it genuinely bothers me, specially the big Woby perks.

- Agility is technically faster than a rider beefalo and its probably the best skill of the bunch, yet its not really that impactful because of her hunger mechanic, she is really inconsistent and requieres constant upkeep to function properly, i don´t get why this skill doesn´t impact her hunger in any shape way or form, i´m even more confused now considering Wendy got half her downsides removed completely (like Abby being considered a player) yet the main drawback of Woby remains untouched

- Bravery makes sense to have but it just feels redundant when beefalos exist.

- Support sounds awesome on paper, having a passive sanity regen while mounting Woby sounds really good for Walter but why is this sanity regen just worse than a pudgy beefalo... im training Woby, im using a whole skill point, why is my payment a WORSE pudgy beefalo, and losing less sanity for getting hit while on top of Woby is something? i guess?

Dig and fetch are pretty fine skills, they are really useful and really good passive boosts but these skills kinda just push Walter onto having a beefalo since you only benefit from this with small Woby, specially considering when all the training you do and all the perks and time you waste means nothing when you could just have tamed a beefalo for the exact same amount of effort but get a ton more benefits compared to Woby badges, i seriously do not understand why these skills are just so BAD and undertuned.

The new rounds suffer from this exact level of mediocrity, the only ones that are actually worth your time is shadow alignment, dreadstone and glass rounds, everything else kinda just feels pointless.

- stinger rounds: why is this a skill, what is the point of using a skill point on this when glass rounds are literally right there, the concept of stinger rounds as a really cheap early game aoe ammo for spiders, bees or birds is nice but this is not worth an entire skill point, its just not.

- Honey rounds: These are cool but get tragically outclassed by slowdown rounds which are base kit and then icker rounds.

- Shockscrap rounds: These are cool in concept but i fail to find an use to these, specially considering i have to go out of my way to craft these, 74 damage on a wet target otherwise its like 40 something, even if you are in the extremely specific scenario of an enemy being wet you are kinda just better off using cursed rounds cause they kinda just do more damage anyways, i love the idea of shocking ammo but these deserve something else other than just decent damage in an extremely specific scenario

- Gunpowder rounds: I personally love these but i just have to admit how outclassed they are in how much they cost and how much damage they deal, these are once again outclassed by cursed rounds, i think them being more fun is fine but i wish it just didn´t have that 5 second cooldown between critical hits, let me play with my luck please, the explosions feel like they never happen and its even worse now that the fire rate increased, meaning i waste more rounds while just WAITING for the explosion to happen because of this cooldown restriction.

- Dreadstone rounds: i like how cost efficient they are but these are honestly just more usable as charge shot ammo to deal REALLY high damage to trash mobs rather than actual damage ammo, this is because once again they get outclassed by cursed rounds, though i don´t think its that bad since they do find a really unique use, i enjoy 2 shotting crawling horrors with these.

- Lunar alignment is just, sad, i cant really explain everything that is wrong with it here but do expect a post later on with comparisons and examples and all that, just know that this alignment its in a REALLY bad state currently.

I don´t really have an issue with cursed rounds being good, i LOVE how cheap, effective and versatile they are and if these were nerfed i would cry, but i think most of his new rounds should just be able to outclass them, and i don´t mean that they should do more damage, currently all the new rounds seem to just focus damage over anything else yet fall short to the cheapest option, gunpowder rounds could be more fun if they were truly random, shockscrap would benefit from an extra effect like bouncing between enemies (like a brightshade staff) honey rounds could give some healing if a player hits the honey´d target with a melee swing, stinger rounds could create a spiked path on impact making it more unique and a new form of area denial, there is so much you could do with these rounds but since all of them focus damage and just get stomped by cursed rounds it just ends up making me feel sad, glass rounds and pure horror rounds are the best rounds because not only they do damage but have very distinct and unique abilities that makes them worth taking over cursed rounds, the glass aoe is really nice and being able to poison enemies for HUGE damage over time while also keeping them stunned with the pure horror rounds is amazing! and i want to see more like this, but as of now its just sad and it makes me kinda upset (╥‸╥)

Now i know Klei has a lot planned and i´m really hopeful most of these issues will be fixed making this post outdated, but i think its fair to be a bit scared of how they will handle it until then, specially considering how little has changed between hotfixes.

I have been really enjoying Walter and i just know he could be even more, he has a lot of potential, ill probably be giving actual feedback, suggestions and video comparisons in the future but as of now i kinda just wanted to make a post to list all of the problems Walter is currently facing and hopefully create some more discussion about him!  ⸜(｡˃ ᵕ ˂ )⸝

 

Honestly I'm not too optimistic that they'll address the slingshot anymore at this point their post seemed to say they pretty much finished it they said nothing about going back to the ammo types when asked. Honestly reading last night's update was a real let down like I knew the focus of the update was going to be on Wendy as per usual but how little actually changed with Walter and then reading his slingshot is in a good spot was a real letdown. Even Woby didn't even get fetch and dig updated to work with big Woby...

[Mr Giggio]

3 hours ago, Tarnishedmax said:

hunger mechanic

One monster meat a day. In the third day u give two. Never fails to be around top max speed. Not hard either. Let's not make the Wendy mistake and want stuff obnoxiously easy giving up actual mechanics. Those things give the character depth. I would rather know a way to see her hunger instead to make it easier without giving this away. It's fun remember u need Meat as Walter so u can keep Woby big. Like a bone icon in a meter.

She has 50 hunger in the game we just can't see it.

3 hours ago, Tarnishedmax said:

Support sounds awesome on paper

The numbers can improve if it want to compete with agility indeed

3 hours ago, Tarnishedmax said:

Dig and fetch are pretty fine skills, they are really useful and really good passive boosts but these skills kinda just push Walter onto having a beefalo since you only benefit from this with small Woby,

I think this is intended so u have two different okay styles one u ride Woby the other u give up the ridding so u use her differently once u doing beef instead for a mount. It opens variety in her skill tree.

So here's the thing don't get me wrong I do agree Woby still can be more polished but we need to get where it's coming from 

3 hours ago, Tarnishedmax said:

stinger rounds: why is this a skill, what is the point of using a skill point on this when glass rounds are literally right there

 

It's day 1 ammo vs after lunar island ammo. I appreciate the stinger ones in early game a lot

3 hours ago, Tarnishedmax said:

Gunpowder rounds: I personally love these but i just have to admit how outclassed they are in how much they cost and how much damage they deal, these are once again outclassed by cursed rounds

I agree. Never doing one of those. If they make if so when an enemy is on fire the gunpowder ammo always will explode max damage I would dig it.

 

3 hours ago, Tarnishedmax said:

shockscrap would benefit from an extra effect like bouncing between enemies

High chance to spawn a lightning while raining would sinergize with gunpowder for triggering the fire requirement and sick for spring fights

 

[Mysterious box]

12 minutes ago, Mr Giggio said:

I think this is intended so u have two different okay styles one u ride Woby the other u give up the ridding so u use her differently once u doing beef instead for a mount. It opens variety in her skill tree.

So here's the thing don't get me wrong I do agree Woby still can be more polished but we need to get where it's coming from

 

Considering the amount of skill points and Woby points you need to invest I don't think there's much potential build variety with the current setup let alone the size restrictions.

[flamboyant wolf]

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

Honestly I'm not too optimistic that they'll address the slingshot anymore at this point their post seemed to say they pretty much finished it they said nothing about going back to the ammo types when asked. Honestly reading last night's update was a real let down like I knew the focus of the update was going to be on Wendy as per usual but how little actually changed with Walter and then reading his slingshot is in a good spot was a real letdown. Even Woby didn't even get fetch and dig updated to work with big Woby...

yeah, ngl it was a bit disappointing.

[Tarnishedmax]

6 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

Honestly I'm not too optimistic that they'll address the slingshot anymore at this point their post seemed to say they pretty much finished it they said nothing about going back to the ammo types when asked. Honestly reading last night's update was a real let down like I knew the focus of the update was going to be on Wendy as per usual but how little actually changed with Walter and then reading his slingshot is in a good spot was a real letdown. Even Woby didn't even get fetch and dig updated to work with big Woby...

I do think the slingshot specifically its in a good spot, the slingshot by itself with cursed rounds/slowdown or pure horror is actually pretty fun to use and im just kinda tired of the only thing being changed, i think rounds count as separate from the slingshot itself, even the terrible old slingshot would find use if we had genuinely cool rounds, and we are living through the opposite now, the rounds suck but since the slingshot is cool its in a usable state, but yeah we really need round upgrades.

6 hours ago, Mr Giggio said:

One monster meat a day. In the third day u give two. Never fails to be around top max speed. Not hard either. Let's not make the Wendy mistake and want stuff obnoxiously easy giving up actual mechanics. Those things give the character depth. I would rather know a way to see her hunger instead to make it easier without giving this away. It's fun remember u need Meat as Walter so u can keep Woby big. Like a bone icon in a meter.

I think this is intended so u have two different okay styles one u ride Woby the other u give up the ridding so u use her differently once u doing beef instead for a mount. It opens variety in her skill tree.

So here's the thing don't get me wrong I do agree Woby still can be more polished but we need to get where it's coming from 

I feel like im not really being obnoxious or asking too much with some improvements to her hunger, just please directly compare her to a beefalo, feeding her one monster meat every single day feels annoying and sometimes you kinda forget, taming a beefalo also makes you feed the thing once day, except now its a stick or grass, or any veggie whatsoever, and once you finally tame a rider (this usually takes 20 days or less by literally just driving around) you never have to feed it ever again, like seriously you just need to NOT mount it once every 8 days to even start losing tame %

I dont think big Woby perks are bad on themselves but we need to directly compare them to a beefalo since its literally a direct competition, a direct competition that is miles faster, consistent and everyone can do it.

the discrepancy between the two Woby stiles are just extreme, training big Woby yields almost no results for all your effort and they not only cost an entire skill point but you also have to train her for a while, again if beefalos didnt exist this would be genuinely awesome but they do and Woby just feels sad to use, if you REALLY wanna ride something just tame a beef, otherwise using normal big Woby is not even an issue.

And the worst part of all of this is that you cant even do an unique build, if you want the speed you have to use 3 Woby points out of... 4... there is no build variety whatsoever, just waste all your points for a mediocre upgrade.

I do not think its unreasonable to ask for more, specially when the skill tree its just so barebones, you telling me that i basically have like no choices and then those choices are kinda bad too??? 

[viblym]

Pudgy beefalo aren't that great to begin with if pudgies got a buff to their sanity stat and Woby got the old Pudgy beefalo regen that'd be awesome.

Digging would be improved greatly if Woby could dig while in her large form (not mounted). If anything you'd think a bigger dog would be better at it.

I hope that when they give Walter new perks his ammo perks will be HEAVILY condensed, I'm talking maybe 2-3 skills for ammo types and squishing the ammo craft perk into one skill.

Thulecite rounds are a great staple round once you get to the ruins but it feels like ammo progression just STOPS once you get there. Cursed rounds continue to just be the best type of round for damage.

Lunar alignment falls off imo because it's just two ammunition types that aren't that great. Brightshade rounds do around the same DPS as Thulecite rounds but they do planar for some of that same damage.  Pure Brilliance rounds only add an additional 5 planar to every attack you do with a planar weapon, it's a pretty insignificant change, Wigfrid affinity type songs bad. The shadow alignment rounds are unique in their functionality and they function exceedingly well. Since brightshade rounds are just thulecite Round 2 I think their damage could use a decent buff. Increase the damage the rounds do and add synergy with the brightshade helm that increases the chance of a brightshade vine spawning on hit (the void cowl has synergy with Walter, why doesn't the lunar side?). Pure Brilliance rounds are just not very interesting at all. I like the debuff mechanic but it's not significant enough for me to want to waste pure brilliance on crafting it, nor use it over other, better ammunitions. The debuff's strength could be increased, instead of adding 5 damage it could be pushed up to 15 additional planar damage. Catuna suggested it be a upgrade to the stinger-moonglass progression of AoE rounds and I do like the idea of that, on top of attaching a debuff to everything you attack, it could have that nice bit of planar damage AoE. Even with these changes I think Pure Horror rounds and Icky rounds would stand strong on their own as they provide a unique niche that's incredible in combat, while allowing lunar alignment to stand on its own two feet. Klei spent a long time balancing the Lunar and Shadow flamecast on Willow, so I want more affinities like this to be balanced in correspondence to, while still being distinctive from each other.

It's also never a bad time to mention that for most affinities where a craftable object is part of the perks, that shadow alignment, thanks to using dreadstone and pure horror in most crafts, will ALWAYS be available pre-rifts to players. You can get Pure Horror rounds once you fight Daywalker, something that can be done easily within the first Autumn. In comparison, doing the questline and killing Celestial Champion is an awful lot of work to get ammunition that's notably worse than the one that you can get from killing Daywalker. This has been an issue for several characters at this point, including but probably not limited to Wigrid, Wurt, Wendy, and Walter. All of their affinity crafts on the shadow side cost Dreadstone (I think Wendy's potion costs pure horror but you also get that from Daywalker) while their Lunar affinity crafts all require Pure Brilliance, a significantly more intensive resource to unlock, the progression for each affinities crafts are not the same at all.

 

[SilverSpoon]

4 hours ago, Mr Giggio said:

Let's not make the Wendy mistake and want stuff obnoxiously easy giving up actual mechanics.

This isn't what all you wanted to say, is it?

If not, this taunting is completely unnecessary.

[Reiko24]

The small "a" in the title of this post looks similar to a "locked thread" sign and it fools me every time 

[Tarnishedmax]

2 hours ago, viblym said:

Thulecite rounds are a great staple round once you get to the ruins but it feels like ammo progression just STOPS once you get there. Cursed rounds continue to just be the best type of round for damage.

This sudden stop on round progression just feels really bad tbh, there is nothing unique to look forward to after getting these other than slingshot upgrades, but slingshot upgrades are permanent, i would love if more rounds just gave me an excuse to farm materials you don´t usually farm like gunpowder or saffron feathers.

 

2 hours ago, viblym said:

It's also never a bad time to mention that for most affinities where a craftable object is part of the perks, that shadow alignment, thanks to using dreadstone and pure horror in most crafts, will ALWAYS be available pre-rifts to players. You can get Pure Horror rounds once you fight Daywalker, something that can be done easily within the first Autumn. In comparison, doing the questline and killing Celestial Champion is an awful lot of work to get ammunition that's notably worse than the one that you can get from killing Daywalker. This has been an issue for several characters at this point, including but probably not limited to Wigrid, Wurt, Wendy, and Walter. All of their affinity crafts on the shadow side cost Dreadstone (I think Wendy's potion costs pure horror but you also get that from Daywalker) while their Lunar affinity crafts all require Pure Brilliance, a significantly more intensive resource to unlock, the progression for each affinities crafts are not the same at all.

I hope one day we get finally get a way to get pure brilliance pre rifts, even if its just a couple, pure brilliance being a counterpart to pure horror fits perfectly, having pure horror and pure brilliance as common post rifts materials but rare pre rifts would bring up so many underwhelming lunar alignments onto shadow level, while still maintaining the post rift exclusive dark tatters/brightshade husks.

[Well-met]

Give woby a third form that's basically a bearger reskin that follows your commands.

[HokahokaPancake]

7 hours ago, Well-met said:

Give woby a third form that's basically a bearger reskin that follows your commands.

That's so cool!
I want something like that in Walter's skill tree!
I like to carry a Bearger or Armored Bearger around and have them fight.
But you can only carry a Bearger on the ground.
Once Woby grows to the size of a Bearger, he'll be great underground too!