Would you like klei to fix every glitch/cheese?

[Guille6785]

17 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Oh? If it was why can’t Xbox do it? 

you can

edit: I love how the people here upvote outright disinformation as long as it feeds into their narratives, truly a forums moment

[Bumber64]

5 hours ago, DegenerateFurry said:

If Klei wants to patch every "cheese" method and every glitch, I say they should patch animation cancelling first

They already did, when they nerfed it.

To my knowledge, anim canceling works by interrupting wasted time after an attack hits. (By moving instead of waiting around.)

Lureplant cheese worked by relying on AFW to politely not destroy an obstacle in his path to killing you. It's low effort nonsense. Void walking was slightly higher effort Wile E. Coyote nonsense.

These things aren't even in the same league.

[Well-met]

Just now, Bumber64 said:

They already did, when they nerfed it.

To my knowledge, anim canceling works by interrupting wasted time after an attack hits. (By moving instead of waiting around.)

Lureplant cheese worked by relying on AFW to politely not destroy an obstacle in his path to killing you. It's low effort nonsense. Void walking was slightly higher effort Wile E. Coyote nonsense.

I think it's important to explain there's two kinds of animation cancelling.

One that fixed a weak point of original Don't Starve, which allows reliable kiting.

The other that lets you reset attack delay instantly by equipping/unequipping gear very quickly (people make scripts for this).

When people talk about the exploit, they obviously refer to the second one.

[Bumber64]

11 minutes ago, Well-met said:

The other that lets you reset attack delay instantly by equipping/unequipping gear very quickly (people make scripts for this).

But you still can't skip the pre-attack delay, so it's more a problem for bone armor mechanics?

[Guille6785]

5 minutes ago, Well-met said:

The other that lets you reset attack delay instantly by equipping/unequipping gear very quickly (people make scripts for this).

When people talk about the exploit, they obviously refer to the second one.

again, this is an intended mechanic

[Well-met]

perhaps it was in 2020.

Would need a renewed opinion of klei today to be certain. these things can change quite fast.

[DegenerateFurry]

12 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

again, this is an intended mechanic

No, it isn't. The game isn't designed with it in mind and it basically breaks every boss fight by drastically increasing your DPS. By the logic of pro-patch-everything people, it should absolutely have been removed entirely instead of simply nerfed as a compromise with the speedrunner community that heavily relies on it. 

[Bumber64]

I think the pre-attack delay should be considered the minimum attack rate. The slower one is what you get from holding F to fight.

The equipping method is a bit weirder. It's less grounded in logic, and equipping should actually cause a delay in actions. I'm not sure how well that would play with auto-equipping new armor, however.

Edit: Logically, you should be burning more hunger for doing more attacks, but that's not how DST hunger works. Actions are just player effort as-is.

[Guille6785]

2 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

The game isn't designed with it in mind

irrelevant to the definition of "intended"

[DegenerateFurry]

Just now, Guille6785 said:

irrelevant to the definition of "intended"

Then you are making the word "intended" into a meaningless buzzword.

[ChintzyGnat]

1 minute ago, DegenerateFurry said:

No, it isn't. The game isn't designed with it in mind and it basically breaks every boss fight by drastically increasing your DPS. By the logic of pro-patch-everything people, it should absolutely have been removed entirely instead of simply nerfed as a compromise with the speedrunner community that heavily relies on it. 

I dont see what's wrong with rewarding the player for the extra effort. Patching this only effects a small group of the dst community and adds nothing by removing it as the players doing it can already kill the bosses easily.

[DegenerateFurry]

1 minute ago, ChintzyGnat said:

I dont see what's wrong with rewarding the player for the extra effort. Patching this only effects a small group of the dst community and adds nothing by removing it as the players doing it can already kill the bosses easily.

Yeah, exactly. That's why exploits shouldn't be patched in general.

I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of people who advocate for patching "cheese methods", but use animation cancelling and pretend it's different somehow.

[Guille6785]

Just now, DegenerateFurry said:

Then you are making the word "intended" into a meaningless buzzword.

intended = it's intentionally in the game. Anything else you add to this is what makes the word meaningless

intended does not mean "the entire game's design is based around it", last I checked the game isn't designed around bee mines either and those aren't unintended

[This14Real]

Watching people defend their preferred use of an exploit and condemn the other is quite amusing. How long until this thread is locked lol.

[DegenerateFurry]

3 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

intended = it's intentionally in the game. Anything else you add to this is what makes the word meaningless

intended does not mean "the entire game's design is based around it", last I checked the game isn't designed around bee mines either and those aren't unintended

I don't really care, frankly, what semantics you want to argue. It's still an exploit, end-of, whether or not the devs meant to leave it in. You are abusing mechanics that were not put in on purpose and which massively upset the game's balance in your favor. Definitionally, it is an exploit.

Rocket jumping famously originated as an exploit/unintended mechanic, but the devs embraced it. That doesn't make it not an exploit.

Stop pretending your favorite exploit is anything but what it is and start accepting that some exploits are good.

[Guille6785]

2 minutes ago, This14Real said:

Watching people defend their preferred use of an exploit and condemn the other is quite amusing. How long until this thread is locked lol.

again, anim cancelling is not an exploit or a glitch, it is literally an intended mechanic, doing mental gymnastics to call it an exploit because you don't like it doesn't make it a bug

1 minute ago, DegenerateFurry said:

I don't really care, frankly, what semantics you want to argue. It's still an exploit, end-of, whether or not the devs meant to leave it in. You are abusing mechanics that were not put in on purpose and which massively upset the game's balance in your favor. Definitionally, it is an exploit.

Rocket jumping famously originated as an exploit/unintended mechanic, but the devs embraced it. That doesn't make it not an exploit.

so this is an exploit? 

[Well-met]

5 minutes ago, ChintzyGnat said:

I dont see what's wrong with rewarding the player for the extra effort. Patching this only effects a small group of the dst community and adds nothing by removing it as the players doing it can already kill the bosses easily.

it's a problem because people build their opinion of the game around exploits like this, and given enough time it completely skews their perspective of things.

They'll use these tricks and then complain that mobs/bosses are too easy or boring.

They'll also rely on these to brag about for "speedruns" and gatekeep whatever left of PvP there is.

[DegenerateFurry]

Just now, Guille6785 said:

again, anim cancelling is not an exploit or a glitch, it is literally an intended mechanic, doing mental gymnastics to call it an exploit because you don't like it doesn't make it a bug

My mental gymnastics: 

Things the developers weren't initially aware of and that bring players who use them an advantage are exploits, regardless of whether or not the devs decide to keep them later or not.

Your mental gymnastics: 

Animation cancelling isn't an exploit because it's hard.

Actually, it's not an exploit because they only half-patched it. 

No, there's no reason other than viewing it as perfectly valid that they'd keep it! What speedrunner community? Nah, don't be crazy, the devs don't ever consider the wishes of their playerbase!

[Guille6785]

Just now, Well-met said:

They'll also rely on these to brag about for "speedruns" and gatekeep whatever left of PvP there is.

nobody has ever done this

Just now, DegenerateFurry said:

Your mental gymnastics: 

Animation cancelling isn't an exploit because it's hard.

No, there's no reason other than viewing it as perfectly valid that they'd keep it! What speedrunner community? Nah, don't be crazy, the devs don't ever consider the wishes of their playerbase!

can you link me to where I said any of this

[DegenerateFurry]

Just now, Guille6785 said:

nobody has ever done this

Outright false, people use animation cancelling constantly in PvP and speedruns. 

[Well-met]

3 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

again, anim cancelling is not an exploit or a glitch, it is literally an intended mechanic, doing mental gymnastics to call it an exploit because you don't like it doesn't make it a bug

so this is an exploit? 

you probably shouldn't bring TF2 into this considering valve is a proper dev that wipes off exploits extremely quickly.

[DegenerateFurry]

1 minute ago, Guille6785 said:

can you link me to where I said any of this

You need only to scroll up and read between the lines in your own posts.

[Guille6785]

1 minute ago, DegenerateFurry said:

Outright false, people use animation cancelling constantly in PvP and speedruns. 

reread my post

[DegenerateFurry]

Just now, Well-met said:

you probably shouldn't bring TF2 into this considering valve is a proper dev that wipes off exploits extremely quickly.

Actually, that's not exactly true, and although this is a bit of a tangent, they've left in lots of exploits. To name a few:
Bunnyhopping to keep your Market Gardener able to critical hit after an explosive jump. "Surfing", which is sliding along map geometry at a high speed to have crazy aerial movement (and which also doesn't cancel the Gardener's crits). You can also abuse Demoknight's charging mechanics to get extra reach out of a swing by timing a charge and a swing correctly. 

 

1 minute ago, Guille6785 said:

reread my post

I think I've had enough of your vagueposting, so nah, if you can't be bothered to be clear and concise, I'd rather not.

[layangan putus]

25 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

No, it isn't. The game isn't designed with it in mind and it basically breaks every boss fight by drastically increasing your DPS. By the logic of pro-patch-everything people, it should absolutely have been removed entirely instead of simply nerfed as a compromise with the speedrunner community that heavily relies on it. 

Some glitches or exploits can be turned into intended mechanics even if the creator never had clear intention to begin with about that specific thing.

For examples:

• In Dota 2, some players pulled jungle creeps to stack more mobs (more exp & gold when farmed), thus controlling the position of creep waves. The dev saw this and liked it so they keep it until now and even make a tutorial and QoL about pulling creep waves.
• Another exploit in same game used in a major tournament which Pudge (hook ability) & KOTL (teleport ally) worked together to hook an enemy into their fountain so the kidnapped enemy could be easily killed. The dev saw this & kept the result of the winning team but then they thought it would demolish the spirit of competition so they fixed it.

Back to DST, we have some exploits/glitches/cheeses (whatever you call it, I don't like to gatekeep meaning of words) like flingo against bosses, kidnapping Pearl from her island, animation cancelling, bruteforcing puzzles, data mining, using meta knowledge, etc. All of these shenanigans are straight cheating but we're not here to judge them being right or wrong - It's just a game so please by any means just enjoy the game to the fullest. I, myself, am a filthy cheater and I as most of human being like easy things especially in the game but I always know that I may sabotage my own experience of enjoying the game. Right now, we'll see if dev team keep or fix these shenanigans because some of them are actually neat, creative, and challenging to execute (like you enter this zone get yourself locked in into clicking your left mouse button around 130 bpm consistently while being aware of specific stuff until you develop your muscle memory similar to drumming). Surely the dev should address these shenanigans if they have potential to ruin the intended experience for players related to surviving, adventures, and mysteries. Although, PVP is for another topic because even it is part of the game but it is never the main genre of DST so should the dev team focus with PVP?