Walter skilltree needs a rework

[Quikin]

Man, i fear the skill tree is bad:

(i repeat myself a bit),I'm criticizing whit emotion, but I have nothing against Klei, i like the other skilltrees, just not this one.

---The alignments are post rifts, and they are rounds

---the void grip is post rift and needs station.

---the aligment rounds need stations, the thelucite frame needs the ancient station of ruins, like the thelucite rounds (hard to get), and is expensive.

---the dreadstone rounds are meh, the stinger rounds are bad, the scrapy rounds are niche.

---the sticky handle is niche and unfun.

---the scrapy frame is only good for a 1 vs 1, and the upgrade is just store more rounds.

---the projectile pro being now nerfed to +5 and +5 to a +10 for 2 points that a lock behind 4 ammo is lame, and you have only 3 decent "options" plus the aligments that you arent crafting until you ""beat the game" and more", the other ones are the bad ones i mentioned.

---the Woby training skills are incompatible by the limit, and between big woby and small woby, big woby skills get repaced by a befalo and im 90% that is easier and better to tame a beefalo.

---fetching is a worst version of wormwood caroots or winona wimbot.

---the mimic band is post rift, and the flailing bad is easy enough to get that you dont need to craft the pig skin one, the bone frame dosent do anything so why craft it,

---why call it customizer if you dont customise but replace worst parts whit better ones?.

---the scrappy frame (basic one) is easier to get than the telucite one but is lock behind the telucite one?!.

---i dont know how people beats the game whit walter but it seems not wort it to play him, Willow whit her skilltree spawns whit her late game gear,

---he got everything post rifts but the things he got are not a the level of post rift content. ----> 3 thing for the slingshot are post rifts, the alignments are post rifts ----> 3 skills of his skilltree are 100% post rifts.

----22 skills -1 that is lock by alignment. not much option in the skill tree, the sligshot mechanic got 16 skills and woby got 6 skills, but Walter characteristics got 0 and he has a lot of gimmicks.

---- the skill-tree feels uncreative compare to the other ones,  since the sligshot is stat buff, 3 skills of woby are stat buffs, and the new rounds are 1 point each (except aligments) and they are very basic (the old ones that now are magic whit the thulecite frame are more interesting), only one skill for each aligment, not mutated woby, nor new camping or outdoors mechanics or expansions.

---he didnt got the Wheleer dodge everyone was talking about, and comparing too since he got added into the game.

---this skill-tree is too much grinding, while wortox or wendy just buff base kit, wortox dosent do more efford but the same as always but he gets a soul buff, and Wendy spawns whit a better Abigail now+ immersive content.

---the woby training station is expensive (that is fine) and is for grinding too, too much efford and a beefalo its better so its replaces 3 skills (that instead of training you can tame a beefalo).

---too much grind in the skill tree and too little reward.

--->at this point re do the thing (i fear they wont, and they just launch this version as its, prioritizing Wendy and Wortox, as they do)

thanks for reading, and please tell me that im crazy and bad at the game and that this skilltree is actually good because y feel so bad for Walter right now.

have a nice day! and bye!.

[Copyafriend]

36 minutes ago, Quikin said:

fear they wont, and they just launch this version as its, prioritizing Wendy and Wortox, as they do)

They are not yet done with the skilltree.

Respectfully, please try to actually read patch notes before you doom post about how useless every aspect of the skilltree is.

The slingshot is in a fine (not amazing, but fine) place right now, the scrappy slingshot doesnt do more dps instead you save ammo by doing double damage per shot. Its pretty useful if you wanna use more expensive ammo efficiently.

The thulecite frame also makes magic rounds (including freezing and quite a few other useful ones) aoe, which is incredibly powerful for utility.

 

Walter also can fight from the back of woby, much more efficiently than he could before. Honestly he's probably the best kiter in the game because he can wear the super heavy marble armor, head gear (weather, light, or whatever) and still move as fast as WX with a walking cane and magi

The slingshot is not walters only perk, its just the perk that needed the most help. And they're considering buffing it already.

 

Wobys perks were purposefully left alone in the last patch because they arent done changing them to their satisfaction yet.

 

Please have some patience and dont cry that they've abandoned the character before the update is even out.

[Mysterious box]

2 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

They are not yet done with the skilltree.

Respectfully, please try to actually read patch notes before you doom post about how useless every aspect of the skilltree is.

The slingshot is in a fine (not amazing, but fine) place right now, the scrappy slingshot doesnt do more dps instead you save ammo by doing double damage per shot. Its pretty useful if you wanna use more expensive ammo efficiently.

The thulecite frame also makes magic rounds (including freezing and quite a few other useful ones) aoe, which is incredibly powerful for utility.

 

Walter also can fight from the back of woby, much more efficiently than he could before. Honestly he's probably the best kiter in the game because he can wear the super heavy marble armor, head gear (weather, light, or whatever) and still move as fast as WX with a walking cane and magi

The slingshot is not walters only perk, its just the perk that needed the most help. And they're considering buffing it already.

 

Wobys perks were purposefully left alone in the last patch because they arent done changing them to their satisfaction yet.

 

Please have some patience and dont cry that they've abandoned the character before the update is even out.

While I wouldn't go so far as to say the whole thing needs a rework I can agree with some points they have Walter's skill tree design in it's current state more or less caters exclusively to veteran players though there are also some things I don't agree with as well.

For example almost noone but veteran players are ever going to see most of the skills laid out on Walter's tree even if they obtain the skills which tends to be a common frustration for some skill trees but Walter is a lot heavier with it than any previous character.

53 minutes ago, Quikin said:

---the woby training station is expensive (that is fine) and is for grinding too, too much efford and a beefalo its better so its replaces 3 skills (that instead of training you can tame a beefalo).

 

 

54 minutes ago, Quikin said:

---this skill-tree is too much grinding, while wortox or wendy just buff base kit, wortox dosent do more efford but the same as always but he gets a soul buff, and Wendy spawns whit a better Abigail now+ immersive content.

These points are also pretty true as even going as fast as possible I sank a lot of time into upgrading his kit despite being experienced however I do kind of like some of the progression in his kit. (not the Woby part though)

But yea most people are going to look at characters who get their toys out the gate or with little additional effort and pass on Walter even post skill tree I imagine since most people aren't willing, don't have the time, or aren't skilled enough to do the things his skill tree asks of him.

 

I don't really think there's fully a good solution for this on Walter's part as there's not a way I can think of to organically lower the requirements on Walter's crafts at least.

1 hour ago, Quikin said:

and is expensive.

I will say now that we can learn them fully and craft them in higher amounts and stacks I'm not sure if I can agree they're expensive but hard to get is fair.

[Quikin]

The slingshot is in a fine (not amazing, but fine) place right now, the scrappy slingshot doesnt do more dps instead you save ammo by doing double damage per shot. Its pretty useful if you wanna use more expensive ammo efficiently. 

The thulecite frame also makes magic rounds (including freezing and quite a few other useful ones) aoe, which is incredibly powerful for utility.

 

i know that the scrappy frame deals double damage, but this damage get bocked by other mobs, so its not of much use if you figthing for example beequeen, and the thelucite one is amazing but is the harder to get of the 2, i played in this version and went to the ruins to craft it in the station, it semmed kinda imposible by my own having into account that he has lower stats and to claim the station you basically need to tank the damage, and time it well, to not get floded by the nightmare pase.

the aoe effects of the slowdown round get outclass by the freeze of the ice rounds, and the slow of the honey rounds. you get the aoe effect whit the old ammos and 1 of each alinment one, not the new rounds so its kinda underwhelming. the speed of the void grip is not enough and its just speed.

the woby training i knew they were reworking it, but its confusing that they launch it in that state since is not viable, and end up being not similar to the full version (this is public testing that is why i get scare)

the slingshot is up-gradable not customizable (except by frames 2) and Walter gets a sanity penalty so its justifiable if he is good range, and im also saying that his other perks also need help since some are not well implemented, like the sanity per 5 trees near you, is an easter egg a joke? who knows, the pinetree pioneer hat gets outclased by most head armour gear, and the sleeping buff get outclassed by farming, well actually the sleeping buff is pretty good just boring, the campfire stories get outclassed by the willow fire ball skill and the star-caller staff. and now Wendy has a skill that makes her less scared and it buffs her allys too.

my opinion is that this skilltree is kinda empty for me (since most content is lock or convoluted to get) and needs mayor intervention, i see we dont share the same opinion.

i want to be able to play with the skilltree when i start the game, this skilltree has so much content locked behind research and resurce gathering is overwhelming compared to other skilltrees that are a early game benefet that dont scale whit the game but they are still good into the late game, i guess im not used to it, but is not entirely my fault, i think this is the frist one that is like this.

anyways i really hope what you are saying is true and that they change/buff his skill-tree, i knew i was wrong in the beginning about most points, but after testing it felt like less and less content, maybe if they play whit the numbers a bit it gets better. goodnight

[Mysterious box]

11 minutes ago, Quikin said:

The slingshot is in a fine (not amazing, but fine) place right now, the scrappy slingshot doesnt do more dps instead you save ammo by doing double damage per shot. Its pretty useful if you wanna use more expensive ammo efficiently. 

The thulecite frame also makes magic rounds (including freezing and quite a few other useful ones) aoe, which is incredibly powerful for utility.

 

i know that the scrappy frame deals double damage, but this damage get bocked by other mobs, so its not of much use if you figthing for example beequeen, and the thelucite one is amazing but is the harder to get of the 2, i played in this version and went to the ruins to craft it in the station, it semmed kinda imposible by my own having into account that he has lower stats and to claim the station you basically need to tank the damage, and time it well, to not get floded by the nightmare pase.

the aoe effects of the slowdown round get outclass by the freeze of the ice rounds, and the slow of the honey rounds. you get the aoe effect whit the old ammos and 1 of each alinment one, not the new rounds so its kinda underwhelming. the speed of the void grip is not enough and its just speed.

the woby training i knew they were reworking it, but its confusing that they launch it in that state since is not viable, and end up being not similar to the full version (this is public testing that is why i get scare)

the slingshot is up-gradable not customizable (except by frames 2) and Walter gets a sanity penalty so its justifiable if he is good range, and im also saying that his other perks also need help since some are not well implemented, like the sanity per 5 trees near you, is an easter egg a joke? who knows, the pinetree pioneer hat gets outclased by most head armour gear, and the sleeping buff get outclassed by farming, well actually the sleeping buff is pretty good just boring, the campfire stories get outclassed by the willow fire ball skill and the star-caller staff. and now Wendy has a skill that makes her less scared and it buffs her allys too.

my opinion is that this skilltree is kinda empty for me (since most content is lock or convoluted to get) and needs mayor intervention, i see we dont share the same opinion.

i want to be able to play with the skilltree when i start the game, this skilltree has so much content locked behind research and resurce gathering is overwhelming compared to other skilltrees that are a early game benefet that dont scale whit the game but they are still good into the late game, i guess im not used to it, but is not entirely my fault, i think this is the frist one that is like this.

anyways i really hope what you are saying is true and that they change/buff his skill-tree, i knew i was wrong in the beginning about most points, but after testing it felt like less and less content, maybe if they play whit the numbers a bit it gets better. goodnight

I mean as I was saying your not really wrong he's is in a weird spot as currently he's a harder character to play than most who also got a skill tree that requires you to work harder than every other previous skill tree while giving you less of a reward overall the problem does mainly feel like a flaw in the design of the other skill trees than of Walter himself though.

[Copyafriend]

3 minutes ago, Quikin said:

know that the scrappy frame deals double damage, but this damage get bocked by other mobs, so its not of much use if you figthing for example beequeen, and the thelucite one is amazing but is the harder to get of the 2, i played in this version and went to the ruins to craft it in the station, it semmed kinda imposible by my own having into account that he has lower stats and to claim the station you basically need to tank the damage, and time it well, to not get floded by the nightmare pase.

Thats just the thing, bee queen is best fought with the thulecite slingshot (loaded with ice rounds and a dps round like ) while id recommend using a scrappy for 1 on 1s or enemies you can one shot (regular spiders can be picked off with one hit, so can elemental hounds or any other 100 health enemies)

As for the ruins, i recommend instead taking your time while wearing moggles and good armor (marble works great)

You can lure single enemies away from groups with your slingshot and kill them in melee if you run low on ammo, or just use tour slingshot and pick them off one by one.

Walter can easily kill a single knight by just shooting it to death before it can reach him. The rook and bishop are harder, but walter is just about the only character who can kill the bishop without taking damage

If you struggle with ruins then thats okay

 

I just feel as though walter is more of an advanced character to begin with.

10 minutes ago, Quikin said:

the woby training i knew they were reworking it, but its confusing that they launch it in that state since is not viable, and end up being not similar to the full version (this is public testing that is why i get scare)

Its okay to get scared, but klei is extremely reliable about changing things when they say they will change things.

Its pretty typical of them to release a rough version of the skill trees and refine it into a final version based on player feedback.

12 minutes ago, Quikin said:

the slingshot is up-gradable not customizable (except by frames 2) and Walter gets a sanity penalty so its justifiable if he is good range, and im also saying that his other perks also need help since some are not well implemented, like the sanity per 5 trees near you, is an easter egg a joke? who knows, the pinetree pioneer hat gets outclased by most head armour gear, and the sleeping buff get outclassed by farming, well actually the sleeping buff is pretty good just boring, the campfire stories get outclassed by the willow fire ball skill and the star-caller staff. and now Wendy has a skill that makes her less scared and it buffs her allys too.

These are all flavor skills, they're meant to show his personality more than provide a meaningful buff. He's had them a long time.

13 minutes ago, Quikin said:

, i think this is the frist one that is like this.

There's a few different skilltrees that are focused on the lategame more than earlygame, but you're probably right, walter could use some more earlygame skills to help out.

 

Its okay to get anxious, but this is normal, they release rough products into beta and finish them before they release it. Its their way of getting opinions on things before they fully release

[PunkShark]

I think a lot of this has to be taken with a more broad perspective. Yes there are some rounds that are not as good as others, but some of em are also built to be for early game, as the good slowdown and AOE rounds will take a while to get. The same goes for some of the slingshot mods, they're not great but again, they're cheap and early game (Not arguging it could use some more tweaks but we know it's coming at some point this week). But also not every mod is made for everyone. Not everyone can defeat a tentacle and get a tentacle spot, that's why the basic accessories are basekit with the toolkit.

Woby's skills are not great and Klei is aware of the problems with it rn.
My main gripe with the skill tree itself is that i am finding it hard to use the lvl 2 badges since you get the normal ones for free anyway. It doesn't appear to do a whole lot of a difference, and what's keeping you from just picking the lvl1 after you've fully succeeded training Woby at 100%? Rn the balance between the 2 feels very samey and there's overall not much reason to pick the upgraded versions. Not talking about them balance-wise cause they are very much unfinished.

Another thing is that there are many rounds, but it seems like they're at the same wavelenght with only a slight difference in gameplay that's making them different from one another. what's keeping me from using my time with gundpowder rounds if i can only get double dmg at only 5% with a 5 second cooldown. It feels excessive, i feel like a 5% is already enough of a chance but then i can't even get the bonus 5 seconds after? Why?
Is it to incentivize to switch between em with my memory? But it's still only 5% so what's the point? I think i'm just better off using thulecite rounds or marble rounds if i have to play a game of chance with gunpowder rounds that only does 8 dmg more than marble ones, That isn't to say i don't like the concept of the gunpowder rounds. having smh that has potential crit dmg is quite awesome. but rn it just feels very limited for the sake of not turning Walter powerful. And i get that, i'm not asking for 100% or 90% crit chance but rn it is just not very good.

If you're gonna make a whole bunch of rounds but only make them slightly different from one another dmg wise then the effect of it needs to be way more effective. otherwise it's just using slightly better but more expensive marble rounds.

EDIT: So apparently gunpowder rounds does not have a cooldown, and does not have a 5% chance but every hit it increases to 5% each. My bad.

[Torpeda]

As a Walter player I was really excited about his skill tree, but it came out flat. We're in minority, but I also think the whole skill tree needs an overhaul.

You got all those ammo's but they do the very same thing and are out-DPS'd by old Cursed Rounds anyway.

You got customisation, but on paper, because you gonna take BiS (Best in Slot) items anyway and the better options are gated behind post-rift content (really, 9% Attack Speed bonus for defeating Ancient Fuelweaver?).

Woby's Training Station is just a bad design. Those could be stand-alone perks without the time requirement attached and they would be in no way OP, they would be actually be decent.

Two additional slows, two AoE, five addititional single target damage projectiles? Why so many? It would m a y b e make sense if there was no Projectile Pro, because you could just throw everything you've got just to save yourself time gathering enough materials, maybe. I hoped Klei would expand on Gem Ammo, providing different effects, but now we've got one round that freezes enemies and three that slow. Worst thing is they stack making all those slowing rounds OP when combined as the boss's are just rooted in place. It's neither healthy, nor interesting design.

There are 16 perks related to his Slingshot alone and two of Woby's perks are related to mounted archery which is ridiculous amount of perks thrown at one thing only.
His entire skill tree is about his Slingshot and even with all of them, it's still worse than any other character with Dark Sword. Having tested his new Skill Tree, I can only say that his Slingshot despite all those "improvements" is still worse than fighting on a Beefalo. I would rather have different minor survival and/or QoL perks than being stronly encouraged to use Trusty Slingshot as a primary weapon.

I actually like live design of Walter. When I started playing DST I picked him because he didn't lose Sanity and Sanity was something I struggled the most. I used Slingshot a lot at first, but when I got better at the game, Slingshot was still a great item, because it was basically a free ranged weapon with easily to craft ammo. Need to farm butterflies or pull something? Pebbles. Need Rabbits or Birds? Gold Rounds. Need more Gold? More Gold Rounds. Playing with friends? Marbles are great if you have someone to tank. Yes, they have lower DPS than most other weapons, but you don't have to move, you don't have to make a lot of armour, you don't have to stockpile a lot of food.

As a more of an experienced player, taking damage no longer bothers me and I don't mind taking a hit and I still play Walter because of his Trusty Slingshot as it's a really handy weapon, but I enjoy those small perks even more. I can move through darkness without losing sanity and occasionally using my light source to not get attacked by Charlie. I'm not bothered by negative sanity auras and when I lose some Sanity or Health, I just sleep it over. Tent is my most used item to regain sanity and having portable tent just feels amazing to me. I'm also a hoarder so having access to both Chester and Woby is really helpful.

I really cannot comprehend this entire focus on his Slingshot. Wanda's weapon can work as a primary weapon of hers, because she's a glass cannon and requires Nightmare Fuel to function and a lot of prep to really stand out. Walter's weapon will never deal as much damage as a melee weapon, because of this massive range and easily accessible resources required to craft his ammo, not even with entire skill tree dedicated to this item so why even trying to make it work as such? Slingshot was always about utility and to ease his Sanity disadvantage rather than bypassing it.

Walter is semi-good for new players if they've got someone else to walk them through the game and for those experienced players who want a little bit of challenge, and for those of us who just really like his playstyle.

[HokahokaPancake]

I can see some fun in customizing the SlingShot as you progress through the world.
But I generally agree with this topic.
I think it's better not to fix Walter's direction to long-distance attacks.
Players should be able to choose his direction.
I think that's the purpose of the skill tree.

- Players who are good at avoiding attacks can use Walter for close-range attacks.

- Walter can also befriend an Mob who will tank for him. (I've played Walter this way so far)

- Some people may want to spend all their skill points on Warby to make him the strongest.

- I think it's fine for him to just be useful as a boy scout in multiplayer.