Poll on Walter's skill tree

[Crimson Hollow]

Now that the devs have said that there are very little walter players so they can't draw a conclusion, I reckon it is a good idea to make a poll on how it could be adjusted, in the hope that it can reach the devs in some way.

 

I believe I have gathered some results on how ppl want Walter to look like, hope it's of help @Jason

[Copyafriend]

Honestly walters tree is close to being good enough

But woby definitely needs some QoL to make her at least as good as but preferably bettef than a beefalo.

 

His slingshot is currently plenty strong imho, i had zero trouble killing midgame bosses with it now that i have a longer range and slightly better attack speed.

 

Marble armor is perfect for anything pre-rifts with woby, and also helps with not being bucked off.

 

The better ammo stacking will also be extremely helpful for his QoL.

 

I mostly see what he's lacking as QoL problems. Him being a ranged character should mean he does less damage compared to a melee dps, but allows cheesing a good number of bosses.

Woby is currently a little disappointing, she should protect walter, or provide some additional utility compared to a beefalo.

She is also too expensive, i have to farm monster meat too often for comfort when i just wanna ride my woby. Maybe a lowered hunger rate would be nice

Woby also needs constant re-feeding just to stay at max speed, i think a higher upper hunger limit would help with this too.

[Mysterious box]

I feel like Walter doesn't offer enough utility in his gameplay which could probably be solved by making Woby more involved in his gameplay not even just as a mount he has nothing that uniquely speeds up his resource gathering for example. I can't help buy once again point to uncompromising where Woby helped with gathering, digging and even combat like a true companion rather than a tool. Though as mentioned in another I think Woby should change to having a hunger bar and her taking too many hits should detransform her instead of having her buck you.

[woxd]

I need more than just bullets.....

[Bluepugjr]

Expanding on wanting him to be more than just slingshot and dog. 
a good comparison I like to make is woodies skill tree.

Woodie used to be just collect wood and become werebeaver but his rework greatly improved that. From there he still needed some work so his skill tree filled I’m the gaps like making his other forms more efficient and fun

he also got some QOL skills like quick picker, walking cane, and hard hat. These additions both improved what he already did and gave him new things to help with.

the issue with Walter is that while his skill tree addresses some of his major issues, he honestly needed a rework before a skill tree and that lead to his tree basically being a set of number and QOL buffs rather than new unique perks and upgrades like other characters got.

which I will say I greatly appreciate, but if I’m being honest everything outside of the slingshot modding kit doesn’t really make him feel any better/different

Which is why I think his tree needs the woodie/wolfgang treatment where we give him new things to do. Some suggestions I for perks I’d like to see would be improved mapping, traps, boating, healing and upgrades to the pine tree pioneer hat.

as of now he kind of is just the slingshot/ lesser beefalo character and I feel like because not many people play him, they believe that this is all he is supposed to be.

i disagree with that notion and want to push for his kit to include more scouting and support features.

 

[Radicaljoe]

Speed Woby is good because apparently it's faster than glossamer saddle Rider beefalo, but I can't wrap my head around the other 2 large Woby skills. Their purpose seem impractical. 

Fetch is almost there, just right on the edge of helpful. It just needs to be faster picking up, and Woby should automatically pick up whatever is in her backpack. 

[Bluepugjr]

2 hours ago, Bluepugjr said:

Some suggestions for perks I’d like to see would be improved mapping, traps, boating, healing and upgrades to the pine tree pioneer hat.

 

To expand on these with details:

Mapping:

either passively or through a unique item, Walter should have increased map visibility, a cheaper version of the cartographer map to share with teammates, and a telescope or something similar.

Traps:

looking at his new ammo’s and how most of them are just damage increases, I feel like an opportunity is being missed. While I do believe making fighting from ranged a viable option is good, I believe that his slingshot should be tailored more to taking out smaller mobs while debuffing stronger ones to make melee combat more effective. For this reason I really love rounds like the stinger, moonglass, and honey- but I think this can be expanded on in the form of traps.

As of now we have the basket trap for small mobs, the bird trap, and the tooth trap for cluster damage.

i think Walter should have his own traps like bear traps, goo traps, ice traps, sleep traps, etc. something to lean in to his indirect approach to combat while also giving him something unique.

Boating:

rather simple, I just think he should be more efficient at it

Healing:

better healing crafts outside of the salve, poultice and tillweed. Item healing is already less convenient than food healing so I think he could carve out a niche there with having healing over time items or simple a cheaper healing item unique to him

 

Pioneer hat:

As it stands his hat while helpful seems to hold him back more than help him manage sanity and that’s solely because there’s just too many valuable helmets to have the slot be taken up by something so passive and negligible.

i think the solution to this would be a way to incorporate other helmets into his hat such as the miners helmet, moggles, winter hat, or umbrella.

this would make it much less of a burden and give an actual reason to wear the hat over just a football helmet or something similar.

 

EDIT: another perk idea I just thought of was instead of trying to give him high damaging slingshot ammo, give him an overall ranged weapon buff that applies to things like blow darts, boomerang, fire staves, etc.

it doesn’t necessarily have to be damage yo on those items but maybe he crafts more of them or the effect is stronger.

2 hours ago, Radicaljoe said:

Speed Woby is good because apparently it's faster than glossamer saddle Rider beefalo

Really? From what I’ve seen it’s just shy of matching a rider beefalo with a normal saddle.

nowhere close to being faster than a rider with glossamer.

[Ugur01]

1 hour ago, Copyafriend said:

She is also too expensive, i have to farm monster meat too often for comfort when i just wanna ride my woby. Maybe a lowered hunger rate would be nice

They added the hunger feature even though it didn't go well with Merm King. It seems like it would be good for Woby.

[gaymime]

23 minutes ago, Ugur01 said:

They added the hunger feature even though it didn't go well with Merm King. It seems like it would be good for Woby.

merm-king is stationary and woby follows. i would assume this would make a difference

[Radicaljoe]

28 minutes ago, Bluepugjr said:

 

Really? From what I’ve seen it’s just shy of matching a rider beefalo with a normal saddle.

nowhere close to being faster than a rider with glossamer.

Ye, it was a bug apparently, you had to get the badge to 100% then unequip, then re-equip it

But should be faster than rider gossamer

[_mylilsunshine_]

So many Walter threads in the past hours, I'm happy. I'll be even chummier if the Dev sees our suggestions/feedback

[IAmAFurrz]

ive seen some people that are like 'yea the cheese is what makes him good', and when i argue 'good but not well designed' they just dont get risk-reward ratio that the slowdowns give/bad design of the slingshot in general

i personally think he should get more special rounds, some that promote active combat rather than slowing it to a halt as the only debuff they have is either freeze or slow (and the slow is way overtuned with icker, and unless klei starts making 'charge' attacks where enemies move with a hitbox like with eye of terror, all mobs can be outranged/cheesed or just beaten on woby)

the way i see walters slingshot is now just a cheese factory. the way to change this is to change the slingshot to be more ultility than just a weapon as his range is way too high for there to be any risk (and it incentivizes not fun OR creative fights). make some debuffs like attack down, make enemies' special attacks slower (do not make this a 'reset' special attack timer), rounds that have a small spore AOE damage effect (idea was inspired by a friend). skills tied to these can be 'effects last longer' and such

side note: splash from moonglass rounds are fine as is, but buff stinger rounds.

also give his special long ranged shot a CD. i dont rlly know why thats even a thing, to just give players an extremely safe shot on bosses that are extra far away (literal cheese factory in this)

as for 'boyscout themed' skills, make it so his sanity loss from taking dmg is lessened, promotes melee/active combat, make it so the hat actually does smthn (make it take %damage from him losing sanity, while negating that sanity loss), the HP threshold before he starts having a constant sanity drain be lowered. all this can be themed around bravery

some more ideas for boyscout skills can be make campfires/firepits last longer, sleeping helps gain stats faster, foraging goes faster (idk why they gave woodie faster picking but they certainly did), he can put out fires (or just smouldering entities) with some item/just bare hands without taking damage (can make ice rounds useful by making it AOE and also takes out ongoing fires). 

1 hour ago, Bluepugjr said:

Which is why I think his tree needs the woodie/wolfgang treatment where we give him new things to do. Some suggestions I for perks I’d like to see would be improved mapping, traps, boating, healing and upgrades to the pine tree pioneer hat.

amazing idea dude, maybe allow him to be better on the ocean with a more personalized boat, maybe something smaller than a grass raft (and since its lighter in weight, rowing makes it move faster). healing perk can be faster animation for using healing items, and more efficient use of healing items. traps, i dont got much for, and mapping he already has good mobility in woby's riding

[Bluepugjr]

43 minutes ago, _mylilsunshine_ said:

So many Walter threads in the past hours, I'm happy. I'll be even chummier if the Dev sees our suggestions/feedback

When I found out he had a player count close to Wes I almost cried bruh glad he’s getting some attention now

[Chewabacca]

Instead of the fetch badge, I think it would be neat if Woby had a scout one: open the map and pick a point in the undiscovered section to send her to. When she eventually reaches that point and returns, Walter gets what she's seen added to his map as if Woby was another player using the cartographer's desk. Progression on the badge could let her go farther/return more quickly. It would be a bit less useful after early game, when the map is mostly revealed, but could still be helpful finding the ruins or certain setpieces. It would be nice for Walter the scout to actually get skills related to his function as such.

[gaymime]

Just now, Chewabacca said:

Instead of the fetch badge, I think it would be neat if Woby had a scout one: open the map and pick a point in the undiscovered section to send her to. When she eventually reaches that point and returns, Walter gets what she's seen added to his map as if Woby was another player using the cartographer's desk. Progression on the badge could let her go farther/return more quickly. It would be a bit less useful after early game, when the map is mostly revealed, but could still be helpful finding the ruins or certain setpieces. It would be nice for Walter the scout to actually get skills related to his function as such.

but atm it is pretty efficient to ride woby around the map. i am not sure it would save any time unless you propose she does not return to her deployment area and instead goes wherever walter is currently at(something that the game's pathfinding struggles with)

[Chewabacca]

Just now, gaymime said:

but atm it is pretty efficient to ride woby around the map. i am not sure it would save any time unless you propose she does not return to her deployment area and instead goes wherever walter is currently at(something that the game's pathfinding struggles with)

Yeah that was my intention, though if the pathfinding can't handle it that sucks.

[gaymime]

27 minutes ago, Chewabacca said:

Yeah that was my intention, though if the pathfinding can't handle it that sucks.

well if pigs are anything to go by it does struggle hard. rubberbanding, warping, getting stuck, getting lost. it is really awkward. in truth i had no idea how bad things could be until i got a mod to let me scroll out a bit more than default and saw for myself how the pathfinding breaks down at a certain distance

 

there is also the issue of loading/unloading. how would the game know what to "see"? if it was super short i suppose it could be like the spyglass in solo where it does some fast math and returns the shape in real-time but if you move out of range and unloading occurs would the game even be able to know what is in woby's direction? and if it is reading the data directly instead of checking the map then what data exactly? if it is your data then it may come back wrong and out-of-date, if it is checking with klei's servers it could really put a strain on your computer and their servers every time it "calls".... ugh, maybe i shouldnt think before bed, i know i said all this very poorly

[Evelo]

My issue with walter are the new ammo types. But I just hate tying new items to the skill trees. I would rather new items be introduced baseline, with skills enhancing the pre-existing stuffs.